Did some preliminary testing with the deck today mainly against pod and wow I never lost a game. With 4 pyroclasms and 3 stones they really couldn't get anything going meanwhile I was landing karns and eldrazis all day long not to mention the fact that they have no way of interacting with our threats in meaningful ways once they hit the board. I think the rise of birthing pod lately is a good thing for this deck just from my testing today at least.
Did some preliminary testing with the deck today mainly against pod and wow I never lost a game. With 4 pyroclasms and 3 stones they really couldn't get anything going meanwhile I was landing karns and eldrazis all day long not to mention the fact that they have no way of interacting with our threats in meaningful ways once they hit the board. I think the rise of birthing pod lately is a good thing for this deck just from my testing today at least.
I don't know how much of a rise in birthing pod we'll see. I see combo and ascendancy coming up fast. The issue is that both were featured heavily in Worlds. Although GP Madrid had a decent showing, my guess is that the storm / ascendancy and delver decks will be more pressing to combat, along with scapeshift.
Did some preliminary testing with the deck today mainly against pod and wow I never lost a game. With 4 pyroclasms and 3 stones they really couldn't get anything going meanwhile I was landing karns and eldrazis all day long not to mention the fact that they have no way of interacting with our threats in meaningful ways once they hit the board. I think the rise of birthing pod lately is a good thing for this deck just from my testing today at least.
I don't know how much of a rise in birthing pod we'll see. I see combo and ascendancy coming up fast. The issue is that both were featured heavily in Worlds. Although GP Madrid had a decent showing, my guess is that the storm / ascendancy and delver decks will be more pressing to combat, along with scapeshift.
The combo decks aren't too bad for us we can really hurt storm with relic and pyroclasm to stop their tokens or graveyard strategies ascendancy will probably get a ban if it gets more popular IMO and scapeshift isn't to big of a problem post sideboard or if you land sundering titan or just manage to combo out faster.
Did some preliminary testing with the deck today mainly against pod and wow I never lost a game. With 4 pyroclasms and 3 stones they really couldn't get anything going meanwhile I was landing karns and eldrazis all day long not to mention the fact that they have no way of interacting with our threats in meaningful ways once they hit the board. I think the rise of birthing pod lately is a good thing for this deck just from my testing today at least.
I don't know how much of a rise in birthing pod we'll see. I see combo and ascendancy coming up fast. The issue is that both were featured heavily in Worlds. Although GP Madrid had a decent showing, my guess is that the storm / ascendancy and delver decks will be more pressing to combat, along with scapeshift.
The combo decks aren't too bad for us we can really hurt storm with relic and pyroclasm to stop their tokens or graveyard strategies ascendancy will probably get a ban if it gets more popular IMO and scapeshift isn't to big of a problem post sideboard or if you land sundering titan or just manage to combo out faster.
Well that's my problem. The issue is that if you want to fight scapeshift, you have 2 ways to do it (IMO), actually landing a Titan or playing something like Slaughter Games. Slaughter games has the advantage that they can't counter it and unless you're running a cavern of souls, I'd be prepared to get my Titan countered. I mean... My 75 is up there and I don't know what to cut for the titan if I were to put it in.
Well that's my problem. The issue is that if you want to fight scapeshift, you have 2 ways to do it (IMO), actually landing a Titan or playing something like Slaughter Games. Slaughter games has the advantage that they can't counter it and unless you're running a cavern of souls, I'd be prepared to get my Titan countered. I mean... My 75 is up there and I don't know what to cut for the titan if I were to put it in.
Personally, I would not run 2 Eldrazi ánd Sundering Titan. Too clunky for me. This immediately suggests what to cut for a Titan; Ulamog.
I agree 2 eldrazi and titan would be clunky I think titan in the side board out ulamog G2 and bring in the slaughter games is really our only out.
Ulamog is actually okay against Scapeshift. Even if they counter him, you take out a land, which can slow them down enough for you to cast Emrakul. Even better if that land is a Valakut.
Oh yeah, in case you were as unaware as I was: Apparently Scapeshift decks have gone down to 2 Valakuts now. I was totally unaware until a Scapeshift player asked me why I wasn't destroying his Valakuts; I said they could just get two more Valakuts, then they told me 2 Valakuts was standard. So just taking out a Valakut with a Ghost Quarter or whatever slows them down because it renders them unable to get double triggers with a Scapeshift. This is extremely relevant if you've managed to gain any life. With just one Valakut left, they need 8 lands to hit you for 21, 9 lands to hit you for 24, 10 lands to hit you for 27... a lot harder than when they need only 8 lands to hit you for 36 with two Valakuts!
So just taking out a Valakut with a Ghost Quarter or whatever slows them down because it renders them unable to get double triggers with a Scapeshift.
The problem with this strategy is it doesn't work if the scapeshift pilots wait to play Valakut until they can kill the same turn. It's true that they sometimes can't afford to sandbag if they have a land-light draw, but it's not really reliable to to hope for that to happen.
Ulamog is actually okay against Scapeshift. Even if they counter him, you take out a land, which can slow them down enough for you to cast Emrakul.
I've actually been wondering if I want Ulamog against scapeshift. Sundering Titan has too many moving parts for me (as I said earlier), while Slaughter Games is too narrow. My question is whether Ulamog can be cast and recast quickly enough to stop them from going off. Do you (or anyone else here) have any experience using it against scapeshift?
Are people still seriously dense enough to say that enemy fetches won't be in the set? We were explicitly told that Wizards will not be doing half-cycles of lands in block sets. We got the allied fetches in Khans, couple Wizards' statement with other hints, the enemy fetches will be in Dragons. You have to be a complete idiot to believe otherwise.
Destroying Valakuts is only relevant if they draw them, which is not an unreasonable thing to happen. If they Scapeshift for them, you go after mountains and hope they don't have enough left in their deck.
The problem with this strategy is it doesn't work if the scapeshift pilots wait to play Valakut until they can kill the same turn.
Actually, that doesn't matter if you have a Ghost Quarter in play. If they have one in their hand, they have to play it that turn in order to get double Valakut. And even if they cast Scapeshift immediately after playing it, you have an opening to destroy the Valakut if you have a Ghost Quarter in play.
Of course, this all requires they draw a Valakut in the first place. If they don't, it's a non-issue. Still, even if they wait until they can kill the same turn as the play the Valakut, you can still Ghost Quarter it.
On the downside, they can get a land, and then sacrifice that and still cast Scapeshift, which may be enough to kill you. Still, it's harder to kill you with one Valakut than two. A little life from a Wurmcoil Engine or a Spellskite in play means they need a lot more lands to kill you with a single Valakut.
20 people. I arrived 3th.
This was a meta full of 'scapeshift', 'junk','ur delver','through the breach' and Pod.
GAME 1: RG TRON 1-0-0
G1: I lost die. 3th turn Karn and I lost.
G2: At 2th turn Surgical on his Tower and GG
G3: 2th turn I run a Spellskite...he played Karn to a Tower, but Spellskite saved me. In addition, a Lightning Bolt on Karn. At 3th turn Surgical on his Tower and GG.
GAME 2: THROUGH THE BREACH 1-0-1
G1: I lost die. Through The Breach + Emrakul. GG
G2: The same G1.
GAME 3: UWR MIDRANGE 2-0-1
G1: An Oblivion Stone on 3th turn controlled the match
G2: An unexpected Blood Moon killed me, but he tapped out on 3th turn and in EOT a Nature's Claim on his Blood Moon. At 4th turn Karn and GG.
GAME 4: THROUGH THE BREACH 3-0-1
G1: I started with Tron + 2Karn + Expedition Map + Oblivion Stone. 3th Karn and GG.
G2: I started well, but at 3th turn (+search for tomorrow) he played Sowing Salt on my Tower and I lost.
G3: I started with 2 Tron Lands and Expedition Map, with Karn and OStone. At 2th turn he played Chalice Of The Void on 1, but fortunally I played Expedition Map one turn ago. Karn Liberated and a Wurmcoil Engine controlled the match. At 6th turn he played a Through the Breach+Emrakul. i sacrified lands, but a Wurmcoil Engine and a Karn Liberated with 11 loyalty points weren't destroyed. I didn't understand why it can't attacked Karn LOL
GAME 4: BIRTHING POD 4-0-1
G1: 2 Oblivion stone at 4th/5th turn nd a Karn on 6th Turn controlled the match.
Subsequently, Wurmcoil + Emrakul.
G2: Side In: Pithing Needle, Torpor Orb, Surgical and Grafidgger's Cage. I controlled the match from the 1th turn to the finish of the match.
I love this decklist. What do u think about my decklist?
I modified my decklist because of this Meta of the local tournament.
My original decklist should be:
20 people. I arrived 3th.
This was a meta full of 'scapeshift', 'junk','ur delver','through the breach' and Pod.
GAME 1: RG TRON 1-0-0
G1: I lost die. 3th turn Karn and I lost.
G2: At 2th turn Surgical on his Tower and GG
G3: 2th turn I run a Spellskite...he played Karn to a Tower, but Spellskite saved me. In addition, a Lightning Bolt on Karn. At 3th turn Surgical on his Tower and GG.
GAME 2: THROUGH THE BREACH 1-0-1
G1: I lost die. Through The Breach + Emrakul. GG
G2: The same G1.
GAME 3: UWR MIDRANGE 2-0-1
G1: An Oblivion Stone on 3th turn controlled the match
G2: An unexpected Blood Moon killed me, but he tapped out on 3th turn and in EOT a Nature's Claim on his Blood Moon. At 4th turn Karn and GG.
GAME 4: THROUGH THE BREACH 3-0-1
G1: I started with Tron + 2Karn + Expedition Map + Oblivion Stone. 3th Karn and GG.
G2: I started well, but at 3th turn (+search for tomorrow) he played Sowing Salt on my Tower and I lost.
G3: I started with 2 Tron Lands and Expedition Map, with Karn and OStone. At 2th turn he played Chalice Of The Void on 1, but fortunally I played Expedition Map one turn ago. Karn Liberated and a Wurmcoil Engine controlled the match. At 6th turn he played a Through the Breach+Emrakul. i sacrified lands, but a Wurmcoil Engine and a Karn Liberated with 11 loyalty points weren't destroyed. I didn't understand why it can't attacked Karn LOL
GAME 4: BIRTHING POD 4-0-1
G1: 2 Oblivion stone at 4th/5th turn nd a Karn on 6th Turn controlled the match.
Subsequently, Wurmcoil + Emrakul.
G2: Side In: Pithing Needle, Torpor Orb, Surgical and Grafidgger's Cage. I controlled the match from the 1th turn to the finish of the match.
I love this decklist. What do u think about my decklist?
I modified my decklist because of this Meta of the local tournament.
My original decklist should be:
Lightning bolt seems bad in this deck we generally are just better off killing all their little beaters with pyroclasm. Also your mana base doesn't support slaughter games out of the side very well. I suggest a city of brass main or side. I think 1 spellskite MD is usually better than 2 I don't even know if I like 1 MD tbh and 4 relic main is a must for my list.
@Lord Seth - The Tron list that top 16'd at Atlanta is actually mine. I actually lost my win an in to angel pod to a series of unfortunate draws (the MU is actually favorable in my experience). A couple notes about the list - it's one that I haven't changed in a few years (as evidenced by city of brass over mana confluence). The main deck spellskites were adopted when infect was a much larger part of the meta (early 2013) and has survived revisions because of how good it is against twin game 1 (which was super popular earlier this year). I'm not sure how good it is currently (I frequently boarded them out in Atlanta, but I didn't play against twin/bogles/infect), but I suspect they can be cut down to 1 or 0 in the main considering the current meta. I feel like Slaughter games isn't as strong as it used to be and ill probably replace them with boil. I've seen a few lists adopt sundering Titan in the side and I like so ill probably adapt that. Nature's claim came in every single match I played (Jund, abzan, GW hate bears, pod, UWr, and burn) and are easily the best card in the sideboard. My 61st card is a mountain that I like because of path and ghost quarter. It's surprising how much that comes up and having that extra land has been relevant more than it hasn't. That said, ill probably cut down to 19 lands (-2 city +1 grove) because I'm probably going to cut games from the board. I like rule of law against storm/ascendancy but I'm not convinced it's necessary.
I definitely need to cut the list down to 60 and comb through the SB but I think I'll end up playing this at PT Fate Reforged. There aren't that many sowing salts out there so I feel Tron is fairly well positioned, and I'm very familiar with the deck, which means a lot in modern.
I'm curious as to what cards you saw in Jund and Pod made you want to bring in Nature's claim? Don't get me wrong, I love the card as well, but in those 2 matchups, I don't know if it is better than cards in the maindeck? I suspect you brought it in against the Birthing Pod itself in Pod, but is it really that important?
Round 1: Mirror match 1-2
Whoever got their karn out first shall win. Was unlucky as well.
Round 2: Storm 2-1
Game 1, he sealed the deal with ascension even though I assembled the tron on turn 3. Did not have a karn to take his ascension and proceed to kill me.
Game 2: A chalice of the void on 2 sealed the deal.
Game 3: He mulled to 3 and had no lands in hand. Conceded to me.
Round 3:Affinity 1-2
Game 1, he had a really explosive start, couldnt find my removal to stabilize the board.
Game 2, he had a ok start but I had multiple removals to remove his threats and then I landed a ulamog to seal the deal.
Game 3, was one turn late of stabilizing. He had only one threat out a a time but his board had 2 cranial plating with other random artifact permanents. Couldnt assemble my tron land in time as I was busy removing his removals(I did not draw any claim), and kill me in one turn after that.
I have been testing lightning bolt and I find out that it is quite good, esp against zoos, affinity or ur delver. I decided to put back 2 relic of progenitus after taking out 2 explore. Not really fond of relic of progenitus and I feel like I like explore more. My current list runs 19 lands without gq , 2 lightning bolt, 3 pyro, and 3 o-stone. My deck has 1 spellskite, 3 wurmcoil, 1 platinum angel, ulamog and emrakul as creatures. Even though platinum angel is bad, most of the time, it acts as a target, buying me more time to search for answers.
My sb runs 3 cotv, 4 claims, 1 pyro, 1 o-stone, 2 torpor, 2 ghost quarter and 2 spellskite.
So my local meta is infested lately with such decks as twin, infect, burn, and hatebears. My Tron list is pretty much the stock list that's on the first page. I trying to figure out what to add main deck to shore up those matchups. The first thing I was thinking of was to add in 2x spellskite from the sideboard and have them maindeck and cut a few relics. Any ideas guys and gals?
I'm curious as to what cards you saw in Jund and Pod made you want to bring in Nature's claim? Don't get me wrong, I love the card as well, but in those 2 matchups, I don't know if it is better than cards in the maindeck? I suspect you brought it in against the Birthing Pod itself in Pod, but is it really that important?
Against pod you have the namesake card that you want to hit with claim. Against Jund, I usually cut cards that don't do much like spellskite and some number of clasm (especially against the version with obliterators that I encountered), and when I don't know exactly what to bring in, I usually default to claim. At worst it can gain me life in response to a removal spell (which, usually, isn't irrelevant), at best it answers some sideboard card that I didn't think they would bring in.
I've never liked Nature's Claim against Birthing Pod. It only hits a few cards in their deck, and of those cards, Birthing Pod is really the only card you care about. So if they don't have Birthing Pod... it sits useless in your hand. Sure, Birthing Pod is a great card, but I don't think it's dangerous enough that you'd want a Nature's Claim; this isn't something like Splinter Twin (and there are better cards to bring in against Twin, but if your sideboard is low on Twin hate Nature's Claim can do it in a pinch).
You might ask why I'd say this when I'd advocate bringing in Nature's Claim against White decks to beat Stony Silence, which they might not necessarily have and which they run fewer copies of. Stony Silence I actually see as a bigger threat than Birthing Pod, because Stony Silence halts a lot of stuff we can do, and, most importantly, turns off one of our best ways to get rid of it: Oblivion Stone. Birthing Pod falls to a Karn or Oblivion Stone quite easily, cards that are relevant far, far more often against Birthing Pod.
I don't know how much of a rise in birthing pod we'll see. I see combo and ascendancy coming up fast. The issue is that both were featured heavily in Worlds. Although GP Madrid had a decent showing, my guess is that the storm / ascendancy and delver decks will be more pressing to combat, along with scapeshift.
The combo decks aren't too bad for us we can really hurt storm with relic and pyroclasm to stop their tokens or graveyard strategies ascendancy will probably get a ban if it gets more popular IMO and scapeshift isn't to big of a problem post sideboard or if you land sundering titan or just manage to combo out faster.
Well that's my problem. The issue is that if you want to fight scapeshift, you have 2 ways to do it (IMO), actually landing a Titan or playing something like Slaughter Games. Slaughter games has the advantage that they can't counter it and unless you're running a cavern of souls, I'd be prepared to get my Titan countered. I mean... My 75 is up there and I don't know what to cut for the titan if I were to put it in.
I agree 2 eldrazi and titan would be clunky I think titan in the side board out ulamog G2 and bring in the slaughter games is really our only out.
Oh yeah, in case you were as unaware as I was: Apparently Scapeshift decks have gone down to 2 Valakuts now. I was totally unaware until a Scapeshift player asked me why I wasn't destroying his Valakuts; I said they could just get two more Valakuts, then they told me 2 Valakuts was standard. So just taking out a Valakut with a Ghost Quarter or whatever slows them down because it renders them unable to get double triggers with a Scapeshift. This is extremely relevant if you've managed to gain any life. With just one Valakut left, they need 8 lands to hit you for 21, 9 lands to hit you for 24, 10 lands to hit you for 27... a lot harder than when they need only 8 lands to hit you for 36 with two Valakuts!
The problem with this strategy is it doesn't work if the scapeshift pilots wait to play Valakut until they can kill the same turn. It's true that they sometimes can't afford to sandbag if they have a land-light draw, but it's not really reliable to to hope for that to happen.
I've actually been wondering if I want Ulamog against scapeshift. Sundering Titan has too many moving parts for me (as I said earlier), while Slaughter Games is too narrow. My question is whether Ulamog can be cast and recast quickly enough to stop them from going off. Do you (or anyone else here) have any experience using it against scapeshift?
Wiser than the average monkey.
Omnath, Locus of Mana | RG Tron
Of course, this all requires they draw a Valakut in the first place. If they don't, it's a non-issue. Still, even if they wait until they can kill the same turn as the play the Valakut, you can still Ghost Quarter it.
On the downside, they can get a land, and then sacrifice that and still cast Scapeshift, which may be enough to kill you. Still, it's harder to kill you with one Valakut than two. A little life from a Wurmcoil Engine or a Spellskite in play means they need a lot more lands to kill you with a single Valakut.
4 grove of the burnwillows
2 ghost quarter
1 forest
1 eye of ugin
3 wurmcoil engine
2 spellskite
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
4 karn liberated
4 lightning bolt
1 all is dust
4 expedition map
4 sylvan scrying
4 ancient stirrings
4 chromatic star
4 chromatic sphere
1 crucible of worlds
2 surgical extraction
2 slaughter games
2 torpor orb
1 grafdigger's cage
4 nature's claim
2 pithing needle
2 relic of progenitus
20 people. I arrived 3th.
This was a meta full of 'scapeshift', 'junk','ur delver','through the breach' and Pod.
GAME 1: RG TRON 1-0-0
G1: I lost die. 3th turn Karn and I lost.
G2: At 2th turn Surgical on his Tower and GG
G3: 2th turn I run a Spellskite...he played Karn to a Tower, but Spellskite saved me. In addition, a Lightning Bolt on Karn. At 3th turn Surgical on his Tower and GG.
GAME 2: THROUGH THE BREACH 1-0-1
G1: I lost die. Through The Breach + Emrakul. GG
G2: The same G1.
GAME 3: UWR MIDRANGE 2-0-1
G1: An Oblivion Stone on 3th turn controlled the match
G2: An unexpected Blood Moon killed me, but he tapped out on 3th turn and in EOT a Nature's Claim on his Blood Moon. At 4th turn Karn and GG.
GAME 4: THROUGH THE BREACH 3-0-1
G1: I started with Tron + 2Karn + Expedition Map + Oblivion Stone. 3th Karn and GG.
G2: I started well, but at 3th turn (+search for tomorrow) he played Sowing Salt on my Tower and I lost.
G3: I started with 2 Tron Lands and Expedition Map, with Karn and OStone. At 2th turn he played Chalice Of The Void on 1, but fortunally I played Expedition Map one turn ago. Karn Liberated and a Wurmcoil Engine controlled the match. At 6th turn he played a Through the Breach+Emrakul. i sacrified lands, but a Wurmcoil Engine and a Karn Liberated with 11 loyalty points weren't destroyed. I didn't understand why it can't attacked Karn LOL
GAME 4: BIRTHING POD 4-0-1
G1: 2 Oblivion stone at 4th/5th turn nd a Karn on 6th Turn controlled the match.
Subsequently, Wurmcoil + Emrakul.
G2: Side In: Pithing Needle, Torpor Orb, Surgical and Grafidgger's Cage. I controlled the match from the 1th turn to the finish of the match.
I love this decklist. What do u think about my decklist?
I modified my decklist because of this Meta of the local tournament.
My original decklist should be:
2 defense grid
2 pithing needle
2 torpor orb
4 nature's claim
2 relic of progenitus
1 grafdigger's cage
twitter.com/toffino
Lightning bolt seems bad in this deck we generally are just better off killing all their little beaters with pyroclasm. Also your mana base doesn't support slaughter games out of the side very well. I suggest a city of brass main or side. I think 1 spellskite MD is usually better than 2 I don't even know if I like 1 MD tbh and 4 relic main is a must for my list.
I definitely need to cut the list down to 60 and comb through the SB but I think I'll end up playing this at PT Fate Reforged. There aren't that many sowing salts out there so I feel Tron is fairly well positioned, and I'm very familiar with the deck, which means a lot in modern.
Round 1: Mirror match 1-2
Whoever got their karn out first shall win. Was unlucky as well.
Round 2: Storm 2-1
Game 1, he sealed the deal with ascension even though I assembled the tron on turn 3. Did not have a karn to take his ascension and proceed to kill me.
Game 2: A chalice of the void on 2 sealed the deal.
Game 3: He mulled to 3 and had no lands in hand. Conceded to me.
Round 3:Affinity 1-2
Game 1, he had a really explosive start, couldnt find my removal to stabilize the board.
Game 2, he had a ok start but I had multiple removals to remove his threats and then I landed a ulamog to seal the deal.
Game 3, was one turn late of stabilizing. He had only one threat out a a time but his board had 2 cranial plating with other random artifact permanents. Couldnt assemble my tron land in time as I was busy removing his removals(I did not draw any claim), and kill me in one turn after that.
I have been testing lightning bolt and I find out that it is quite good, esp against zoos, affinity or ur delver. I decided to put back 2 relic of progenitus after taking out 2 explore. Not really fond of relic of progenitus and I feel like I like explore more. My current list runs 19 lands without gq , 2 lightning bolt, 3 pyro, and 3 o-stone. My deck has 1 spellskite, 3 wurmcoil, 1 platinum angel, ulamog and emrakul as creatures. Even though platinum angel is bad, most of the time, it acts as a target, buying me more time to search for answers.
My sb runs 3 cotv, 4 claims, 1 pyro, 1 o-stone, 2 torpor, 2 ghost quarter and 2 spellskite.
Against pod you have the namesake card that you want to hit with claim. Against Jund, I usually cut cards that don't do much like spellskite and some number of clasm (especially against the version with obliterators that I encountered), and when I don't know exactly what to bring in, I usually default to claim. At worst it can gain me life in response to a removal spell (which, usually, isn't irrelevant), at best it answers some sideboard card that I didn't think they would bring in.
You might ask why I'd say this when I'd advocate bringing in Nature's Claim against White decks to beat Stony Silence, which they might not necessarily have and which they run fewer copies of. Stony Silence I actually see as a bigger threat than Birthing Pod, because Stony Silence halts a lot of stuff we can do, and, most importantly, turns off one of our best ways to get rid of it: Oblivion Stone. Birthing Pod falls to a Karn or Oblivion Stone quite easily, cards that are relevant far, far more often against Birthing Pod.