hmmm i am not sure i like playing stony silence. In which situation its better to have a dumping matrix ?. To me it appears that dumping matrix is just used as a stoney silence if u dont have white in your deck , correct me if I am wrong.
I acually wanna cut the mindcensors 1 wear//tear und 1 Relic of Progenitus. Surgical Extraction is maybe somehow not often seen but it won me a lot of games against snapcaster decks, and if you can tecedge a tron Land + extraction its normally gg as well . It came as well in handy against Combo AND I played as well a few times against b/w token and could remove lingering soul before he could flash it back , pretty sick >< . Do u guys think you could play 2 shadow of doubts in the sideboard ?
Damping matrix doesn´t stop mana abilities, so Darksteel citadels, mox opals and talismans still work, however, Damping matrix stops Splinter twin and kiki jiki activations as well as vicera seer, quasali pridemage and any other creature activations from pod.
I actually don't like the Stony Silence plan anymore out of the board. We all ready have a good Affinity MU and it's better to just kill the birthing pods than temporarily dealing with it until they kill Stony Silence (yes, I know Eternal Witness is a downside....). It's just a very narrow card in MU's where we're all ready not that bad. I'd rather have more Vendilion Cliques right now due to the ubiquity of combo everywhere. It's better against Tron, in the mirror, against Liliana decks, Twin, etc. I also think it's a mistake not having Counterflux somewhere in the 75. I suppose it also depends on your meta, but for me 90% of the MU's I play against are some kind of combo deck, or Pod.
@Karibou
I think you're list is mostly fine if that's what you're comfortable running. I would probably fit a clique or two in the sideboard, probably instead of a relic or two. Whether or not you want to play clique in the main deck depends on how you plan on winning and how you're games tend to play out. I will say that I do not like seeing 2 remand and 0 think twice. I'm not a fan of remand since your games are set up to go super long. I have played 2 think twice and 1 remand though. Think twice is just value and helps you pull ahead on card advantage. I probably wouldn't play 3 helix either, I know McLaren played 3 helix, but he was expecting a lot of zoo decks and that didn't really happen.
New to UWR control here. Trading in my UR Delver for something a little more consistent while still playing draw-go Just one question as I'm looking at different builds. Is Wrath of God or Hallowed Burial the better sweeper? I've seen both played but never seen an argument as to which one is better.
New to UWR control here. Trading in my UR Delver for something a little more consistent while still playing draw-go Just one question as I'm looking at different builds. Is Wrath of God or Hallowed Burial the better sweeper? I've seen both played but never seen an argument as to which one is better.
Burial is the sweeper to go. It catches all for the cost of one more mana. Wrath of God does take care of Thrun, tho it won't make it quite there against pod.
New to UWR control here. Trading in my UR Delver for something a little more consistent while still playing draw-go Just one question as I'm looking at different builds. Is Wrath of God or Hallowed Burial the better sweeper? I've seen both played but never seen an argument as to which one is better.
If you want to play 2 sweepers and 1 of them hallowed burial, your other sweeper should be pyroclasm.
But if you're playing wrath, you can play another wrath or a pyroclasm.
One is not strictly better than the other, but they can affect what CMC sweepers you can play.
New to UWR control here. Trading in my UR Delver for something a little more consistent while still playing draw-go Just one question as I'm looking at different builds. Is Wrath of God or Hallowed Burial the better sweeper? I've seen both played but never seen an argument as to which one is better.
If you want to play 2 sweepers and 1 of them hallowed burial, your other sweeper should be pyroclasm.
But if you're playing wrath, you can play another wrath or a pyroclasm.
One is not strictly better than the other, but they can affect what CMC sweepers you can play.
I affirm this but would like to add that if pyroclasm isn't working as it doesn't kill 3 toughness dudes. You could try Anger of the Gods with the risk of not being able to cast it with its 1RR mana cost.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I've been going with a 2md supreme verdict, 1 sb wrath and 1 sb hallowed burial and been liking it a lot. Took out the anger, as the double red was hard to get, and also pod isnt that present in my meta surprisingly. If I start seeing more pod would probably go with a md anger instead.
My meta has zoo and plenty of pod. Its very good there and I think its paramount to my sucess but I do agree with you pyroclasm is the better one in the general meta.
1 Batterskull
1 Path
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Counterflux
2 Celestial Purge
1 Threads of Disloyalty
5 ????
What do you think about the deck? For some people 4 Spell Snare might look excessive, yet I find they are useful throughout all stages of the game. Whether it's Tarmogoyf, BOB, or Pentad Prism, they certainly help me to stay solid while being able to play a tapped land in the second turn without bothering much.
What I do find excessive is using 3 vendilion clique, I might cut one or even two. I'm looking perhaps at adding a couple of Sphinxs's Revelation? and maybe another Island.
And about the sideboard slots, I haven't decided yet for I might try porphyry nodes for example.
If I'm remembering correctly that is an iteration of the list LSV made videos of last month? 3 Cliques, 3 restoration angel, no planeswalkers and no revelations is definitely looking to play like a midrange deck. Knowing that suggestions are going to be entirely dependent on the type of game you are trying to play. It's fine if you want to play UWR flash, I've played it and it's okay. I really don't like restoration angel in this deck though.
If I'm remembering correctly that is an iteration of the list LSV made videos of last month? 3 Cliques, 3 restoration angel, no planeswalkers and no revelations is definitely looking to play like a midrange deck. Knowing that suggestions are going to be entirely dependent on the type of game you are trying to play I would just ask you what do you want to play? The deck is fine if you want to play UWR flash, I've played it and it's okay. I like restoration angel better in uwr twin though. For this deck right now I like to think of it as uw control splash red for lighting bolt and electrolyze.
I may catch hate for this but I think lightning helix is the weakest card in these recent lists. It's bad against twin, versus pod its forgettable, its bad against affinity, bad against jund, bad against storm, bad against tron and can be good against random creature decks like merfolk. The only deck I really find myself wanting helix against is burn and realistically I'm just not going to factor burn into my decisions. Against affinity games tend to depend on whether I can wipe their board and lock down their manlands. Helix is nice for those situations where you need to get yourself out of blast range, but <90% of the time the pivot point in the game is whether you can answer multiple threats at one time, which is why I favor more sweepers. Against twin, pod and jund helix is worthless, it doesn't solve any of the situations you will find yourself in except for randomly killing lilianas but that is fringe. Right now I'm in favor of cutting helix. Zoo is not existant, the main aggro deck is still affinity and against affinity gaining three life and killing a creature the majority of the time doesn't factor in to whether you have put yourself in a winning position. I have personally dropped two helix and added a clique and another wrath
If I'm remembering correctly that is an iteration of the list LSV made videos of last month (I'm in between undergrad and grad school so I have a lot of time :X) ? 3 Cliques, 3 restoration angel, no planeswalkers and no revelations is definitely looking to play like a midrange deck. Knowing that suggestions are going to be entirely dependent on the type of game you are trying to play I would just ask you what do you want to play? The deck is fine if you want to play UWR flash, I've played it and it's okay. I like restoration angel better in uwr twin though. For this deck right now I like to think of it as uw control splash red for lighting bolt and electrolyze.
I may catch hate for this but I think lightning helix is the weakest card in these recent lists. It's bad against twin, versus pod its forgettable, its bad against affinity, bad against jund, bad against storm, bad against tron and can be good against random creature decks like merfolk. The only deck I really find myself wanting helix against is burn and realistically I'm just not going to factor burn into my decisions. Against affinity games tend to depend on whether I can wipe their board and lock down their manlands. Helix is nice for those situations where you need to get yourself out of blast range, but <90% of the time the pivot point in the game is whether you can answer multiple threats at one time, which is why I favor more sweepers. Against twin, pod and jund helix is worthless, it doesn't solve any of the situations you will find yourself in except for randomly killing lilianas but that is fringe. Right now I'm in favor of cutting helix. Zoo is not existant, the main aggro deck is still affinity and against affinity gaining three life and killing a creature the majority of the time doesn't factor in to whether you have put yourself in a winning position. I have personally dropped two helix and added a clique and another wrath, since the top decks appear to be twin, affinity, pod, storm and jund.
Rickster_
I think I played you with you playing mono green infect? I'm curious as to why you're running viridian corrupter in the main deck. that deck seems pretty sweet from a surprise factor
The problem is, wraths are bad against a lot of decks and when they're dead, they're dead, unlike Helix which can always go to the face and win races. The other problem is....there just isn't too much other efficient removal in these colors we could be playing and we do take a lot of damage from our manabase which gives another point in favor of Helix. I'm not saying run 4 (I run 3 myself), but it's a card I would never run less than 2 in the MB. I think the weakest card in most UWR MB is either Ajani or Mana Leak, especially since Path to Exile is a needed 3 to 4 of now-a-days. It's the reason I cut the leaks and switched to Remands which are great right now. Deck velocity is extremely important for us and bridging from Remand > Cryptic is really nice.
I'm also going to try out 2 Temple of Epiphany's in my latest iteration. Being that I have 12 1CMC spells and only 6 CIPT lands and 2 colorless (tec edges) I feel like the ability to scry for us in particular will be much more powerful. I could be wrong, but I'm cutting 2 Sulfur Falls so...(going from 4 Falls to 2 Falls 2 Epiphany's). I don't run that much white anyways, so we'll see...Anyone else tried out temples lately?
If I'm remembering correctly that is an iteration of the list LSV made videos of last month? 3 Cliques, 3 restoration angel, no planeswalkers and no revelations is definitely looking to play like a midrange deck. Knowing that suggestions are going to be entirely dependent on the type of game you are trying to play. It's fine if you want to play UWR flash, I've played it and it's okay. I really don't like restoration angel in this deck though.
If I'm remembering correctly that is an iteration of the list LSV made videos of last month? 3 Cliques, 3 restoration angel, no planeswalkers and no revelations is definitely looking to play like a midrange deck. Knowing that suggestions are going to be entirely dependent on the type of game you are trying to play. It's fine if you want to play UWR flash, I've played it and it's okay. I really don't like restoration angel in this deck though.
You're right, it is exactly that list. But I'm thinking on changing it for something more controllish. Could you post the list you're currently playing?
I'm going to disagree. Yes helix can always go to the face, but the decks were wrath's aren't good you're not going to be able to race anyway. Yes you can sometimes pull off bolt snap bolt helix games, but I would rather sacrifice those fluke games for a deck that is able to answer to the metagame and right now the metagame doesn't require helix. I'm also sort of put off by having "the" control deck rely on an "oopps bolt snap bolt" I win. Its just inconsistent and right now you need to be able to deal with twin, pod and affinity. Helix just doesn't pull it's weight enough in those matchups and it also doesn't pull it's weight versus jund, the mirror and storm. That alone makes me not want to run it. If your taking enough damage from your lands to warrant two slots in your main deck to make up for it, it makes me think you are a) not sequencing your lands properly, b) keeping poor hands, and c) leaning to much on red.
I play on modo (obviously you should adjust to wherever you play or if you're going to a major event) and here is what I've been favoring in terms of control. You grind out every win, but you have no auto losses.
I'm going to disagree. Yes helix can always go to the face, but the decks were wrath's aren't good you're not going to be able to race anyway. Yes you can sometimes pull off bolt snap bolt helix games, but I would rather sacrifice those fluke games for a deck that is able to answer to the metagame and right now the metagame doesn't require helix. I'm also sort of put off by having "the" control deck rely on an "oopps bolt snap bolt" I win. Its just inconsistent and right now you need to be able to deal with twin, pod and affinity. Helix just doesn't pull it's weight enough in those matchups and it also doesn't pull it's weight versus jund, the mirror and storm. That alone makes me not want to run it. If your taking enough damage from your lands to warrant two slots in your main deck to make up for it, it makes me think you are a) not sequencing your lands properly, b) keeping poor hands, and c) leaning to much on red.
I win most of my games with Snap + Burn. It's not inconsistent at all and against decks like Tron your only hope is to race G1. Wraths are also awkward with the amount of counterspells most people play. I could see maybe playing Pyroclasm MB if your meta was geared there, but if you're going to play the 4CMC wraths in the MB they're dead in a lot more MU's than Helix is (e.g. wraths are much worse against Twin, the mirror, storm, any combo deck, etc.). Helix also isn't that bad against Jund as it can reliably kill Confidant, Scooze, Raging Ravine and let's you kill a lot of things in conjunction with Electrolyze for value. Also, how is it bad against Affinity? It's much better than a 4CMC wrath (or even Anger imho). As for the manabase...it's the nature of having 7 fetchlands and 5 shocklands. Anyways, if you want to see my deck it's published @: http://deckstats.net/decks/302/61045-uwr-control?saved=1&lng=en
Besides, it's also tutorable with Mystical Teachings (of which I play) which has come in handy in more than a few situations...
I'm not saying your wrong, but I do disagree. I do want pressure against tron and bolt snap bolt is fine, but tron isn't a good matchup anyway you slice it. I'm willing to give up a game 1 versus tron. It's like post versus miracles in legacy, it's just a horrible matchup. Your deck is designed to go late and their late game crushes you. Bolts are rarely going to matter in those matches anyway. Helix also doesn't top deck well against jund. As for affinity I would ask you to point out the crucial turns in each of your games. If you just try and one for one affinity you'll lose. That deck is the king of redundancy. Being tutor able by teachings is irrelevant, no offense but your list has absolutely no reason to run teachings. What do you teachings for remand.'m
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Damping matrix doesn´t stop mana abilities, so Darksteel citadels, mox opals and talismans still work, however, Damping matrix stops Splinter twin and kiki jiki activations as well as vicera seer, quasali pridemage and any other creature activations from pod.
I think you're list is mostly fine if that's what you're comfortable running. I would probably fit a clique or two in the sideboard, probably instead of a relic or two. Whether or not you want to play clique in the main deck depends on how you plan on winning and how you're games tend to play out. I will say that I do not like seeing 2 remand and 0 think twice. I'm not a fan of remand since your games are set up to go super long. I have played 2 think twice and 1 remand though. Think twice is just value and helps you pull ahead on card advantage. I probably wouldn't play 3 helix either, I know McLaren played 3 helix, but he was expecting a lot of zoo decks and that didn't really happen.
-1 sulfur falls
+1 cascade bluffs
Burial is the sweeper to go. It catches all for the cost of one more mana. Wrath of God does take care of Thrun, tho it won't make it quite there against pod.
Modern
ResidentSleeper
Legacy
UWRUWr MiracleRWU
If you want to play 2 sweepers and 1 of them hallowed burial, your other sweeper should be pyroclasm.
But if you're playing wrath, you can play another wrath or a pyroclasm.
One is not strictly better than the other, but they can affect what CMC sweepers you can play.
I affirm this but would like to add that if pyroclasm isn't working as it doesn't kill 3 toughness dudes. You could try Anger of the Gods with the risk of not being able to cast it with its 1RR mana cost.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
zoo is non-existent
same for blade splicer
pyroclasm is easier to cast, easier to flash back with snapcaster, it's better vs affinity, and is still very good against pod
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I've been running this list for sometime already:
Lands 25 :
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Tectonic Edgee
Creatures 10:
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
Other spells 25:
4 Spell Snare
3 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Electrolize
3 Path
Sideboard;
1 Batterskull
1 Path
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Counterflux
2 Celestial Purge
1 Threads of Disloyalty
5 ????
What do you think about the deck? For some people 4 Spell Snare might look excessive, yet I find they are useful throughout all stages of the game. Whether it's Tarmogoyf, BOB, or Pentad Prism, they certainly help me to stay solid while being able to play a tapped land in the second turn without bothering much.
What I do find excessive is using 3 vendilion clique, I might cut one or even two. I'm looking perhaps at adding a couple of Sphinxs's Revelation? and maybe another Island.
And about the sideboard slots, I haven't decided yet for I might try porphyry nodes for example.
If I'm remembering correctly that is an iteration of the list LSV made videos of last month? 3 Cliques, 3 restoration angel, no planeswalkers and no revelations is definitely looking to play like a midrange deck. Knowing that suggestions are going to be entirely dependent on the type of game you are trying to play. It's fine if you want to play UWR flash, I've played it and it's okay. I really don't like restoration angel in this deck though.
If I'm remembering correctly that is an iteration of the list LSV made videos of last month? 3 Cliques, 3 restoration angel, no planeswalkers and no revelations is definitely looking to play like a midrange deck. Knowing that suggestions are going to be entirely dependent on the type of game you are trying to play I would just ask you what do you want to play? The deck is fine if you want to play UWR flash, I've played it and it's okay. I like restoration angel better in uwr twin though. For this deck right now I like to think of it as uw control splash red for lighting bolt and electrolyze.
I may catch hate for this but I think lightning helix is the weakest card in these recent lists. It's bad against twin, versus pod its forgettable, its bad against affinity, bad against jund, bad against storm, bad against tron and can be good against random creature decks like merfolk. The only deck I really find myself wanting helix against is burn and realistically I'm just not going to factor burn into my decisions. Against affinity games tend to depend on whether I can wipe their board and lock down their manlands. Helix is nice for those situations where you need to get yourself out of blast range, but <90% of the time the pivot point in the game is whether you can answer multiple threats at one time, which is why I favor more sweepers. Against twin, pod and jund helix is worthless, it doesn't solve any of the situations you will find yourself in except for randomly killing lilianas but that is fringe. Right now I'm in favor of cutting helix. Zoo is not existant, the main aggro deck is still affinity and against affinity gaining three life and killing a creature the majority of the time doesn't factor in to whether you have put yourself in a winning position. I have personally dropped two helix and added a clique and another wrath
The problem is, wraths are bad against a lot of decks and when they're dead, they're dead, unlike Helix which can always go to the face and win races. The other problem is....there just isn't too much other efficient removal in these colors we could be playing and we do take a lot of damage from our manabase which gives another point in favor of Helix. I'm not saying run 4 (I run 3 myself), but it's a card I would never run less than 2 in the MB. I think the weakest card in most UWR MB is either Ajani or Mana Leak, especially since Path to Exile is a needed 3 to 4 of now-a-days. It's the reason I cut the leaks and switched to Remands which are great right now. Deck velocity is extremely important for us and bridging from Remand > Cryptic is really nice.
I'm also going to try out 2 Temple of Epiphany's in my latest iteration. Being that I have 12 1CMC spells and only 6 CIPT lands and 2 colorless (tec edges) I feel like the ability to scry for us in particular will be much more powerful. I could be wrong, but I'm cutting 2 Sulfur Falls so...(going from 4 Falls to 2 Falls 2 Epiphany's). I don't run that much white anyways, so we'll see...Anyone else tried out temples lately?
You're right, it is exactly that list. But I'm thinking on changing it for something more controllish. Could you post the list you're currently playing?
I'm going to disagree. Yes helix can always go to the face, but the decks were wrath's aren't good you're not going to be able to race anyway. Yes you can sometimes pull off bolt snap bolt helix games, but I would rather sacrifice those fluke games for a deck that is able to answer to the metagame and right now the metagame doesn't require helix. I'm also sort of put off by having "the" control deck rely on an "oopps bolt snap bolt" I win. Its just inconsistent and right now you need to be able to deal with twin, pod and affinity. Helix just doesn't pull it's weight enough in those matchups and it also doesn't pull it's weight versus jund, the mirror and storm. That alone makes me not want to run it. If your taking enough damage from your lands to warrant two slots in your main deck to make up for it, it makes me think you are a) not sequencing your lands properly, b) keeping poor hands, and c) leaning to much on red.
I play on modo (obviously you should adjust to wherever you play or if you're going to a major event) and here is what I've been favoring in terms of control. You grind out every win, but you have no auto losses.
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Tectonic Edge
Creatures
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
4 Lighting Bolt
2 Electrolyze
3 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Think Twice
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Pyroclasm
4 Cryptic Command
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Gideon Jura
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Batterskull
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Rest in Peace
1 celestial purge
1 logic knot
2 counterflux
1 sowing salt
1 threads of disloyalty
1 engineered explosives
1 crucible of worlds
1 wear//tear
I win most of my games with Snap + Burn. It's not inconsistent at all and against decks like Tron your only hope is to race G1. Wraths are also awkward with the amount of counterspells most people play. I could see maybe playing Pyroclasm MB if your meta was geared there, but if you're going to play the 4CMC wraths in the MB they're dead in a lot more MU's than Helix is (e.g. wraths are much worse against Twin, the mirror, storm, any combo deck, etc.). Helix also isn't that bad against Jund as it can reliably kill Confidant, Scooze, Raging Ravine and let's you kill a lot of things in conjunction with Electrolyze for value. Also, how is it bad against Affinity? It's much better than a 4CMC wrath (or even Anger imho). As for the manabase...it's the nature of having 7 fetchlands and 5 shocklands. Anyways, if you want to see my deck it's published @: http://deckstats.net/decks/302/61045-uwr-control?saved=1&lng=en
Besides, it's also tutorable with Mystical Teachings (of which I play) which has come in handy in more than a few situations...