Given that I play a very standard list with 1 ajani, 1 verdict MD, no remand, 2 spell snares, 4 snaps no other creatures, think twice:
-how do you deal with faeries? Did some tests against, it absolutely crushes me. I can't think of any sideboard card that might help other than more verdicts, and wear/tear to deal with BB.
-can you think of something else that could be sided in against storm other than counterflux ? Got 3 of them after side (1 MD, 2 SB), but it seems a little fragile.
thanks for any tips/advices !
Counterflux is like a bad Mana Leak against Storm. If they go off with Grapeshot, Counterflux won't save you from infinite mana/active ascensions. If you have 4 mana up, you can stop a Empty the Warrens with the overload, but I've never had it happen. I actually used to play Storm as my MODO deck until recently, and I never had someone overload a Counterflux on me once.
The version I run has 3 Spell Snare, 2 Remand, 3 Mana Leak, 4 Cryptic, 3 Vendilion Clique. Having 6 early game counters, plus Remands and Cliques gives me a better combo matchup, but if your light on countermagic and running slower multi-card effects like Verdict, Think Twice, and Revelation, Engineered Explosives (deals with Empty the Warrens, Electromancer and Ascension) and Relic are better than that third Counterflux. I run 2 Counterflux, but not for Storm specifically. Shaheen Soorani actually ran Ethersworn Canonist, which I doubt Storm can realistically beat.
Engineered Explosives would also be good against Faeries. But that card is just insane, in general. I don't get why more people aren't running it.
Really? Counterflux is a house against storm. Overloaded flux 2x vs stom yesterday. Been running 2 main board as I only own 2 cryptics and wanted another hard counter. Early game kill the electromancers, counter assention. Once flux mana is up just sit and wait till they storm out and empty their hand, then its usually gg.
Really? Counterflux is a house against storm. Overloaded flux 2x vs stom yesterday. Been running 2 main board as I only own 2 cryptics and wanted another hard counter. Early game kill the electromancers, counter assention. Once flux mana is up just sit and wait till they storm out and empty their hand, then its usually gg.
There's 2 basic ways to win with Storm, with a backup plan and Warrens out the sideboard:
1) You get an active Pyromancer's Ascension. Then a single draw spell can flip your entire deck.
2) You get a pile of rituals/Electromancers + Past in Flames.
Backup: meagerly piece together exact lethal damage with a bunch of rituals and cantrips in hand.
The first 2 plans involve flipping most of your deck and generating 20+ mana and multiple copies of Past in Flames in the graveyard, in the process. Even if you overload Counterflux, it doesn't matter. They can just recast Grapeshot. I've seen bad Storm players get lazy and fire of Grapeshot for exact damage instead of spending the time to go deep into their deck, but that's just poor play.
If you're overloading Counterflux on their actual Storm spell instead of just playing it as Cancel, it's either due to the Empty the Warrens sideboard plan or you drawing your early disruption and them trying to scrape together a win with the bad leftovers.
EDIT: That or you could be oblivious to the fact that 4 mana and Counterflux doesn't do anything if you just let them cast all their spells, and have gotten lucky so far with them fizzling after you counter the Grapeshot. Gambling that they don't have it may work a percentage of the time, but that's not the kind of play I like to make.
hmmm ya maybe he was just bad a playing storm as he never had a past in flames in the yard. I counterfluxed with his first storm leaving his hand empty. Landed a batterskull when he had no cards in hand, then he drew for a few turns before trying to cast past in flames, to be countered, then remanded upon flashback. Also never let him have a pyromancer or a electromancer on the board so that probably slowed him down significantly.
But yeah I agree, I think storm, not totally unlike uwr is very skill dependent, more so than many other decks it seems like.
May be an odd question but anyone had thoughts of a one of surgical extraction main board? With so many combo decks running around we get one of their pieces in the yard we can hose them pretty hard. even works well with boggles, affinity, BGx, pod, etc, taking one of their biggest threats totally out of the game seems like a pretty good deal.
So ive been told that this is one of the best decks in the format... so wheres the relults? I dont see it top 8ing a whole lot. What decks are keeping it at bay? or is it just the pilots?
So ive been told that this is one of the best decks in the format... so wheres the relults? I dont see it top 8ing a whole lot. What decks are keeping it at bay? or is it just the pilots?
Hmmm...it did just win the pro-tour..soooooo...yeah. Not sure how else to respond.
That being said it is extremely skill intensive to pilot.
The deck is very good. Maybe alot of folks haven't been playing it much. I mean, the deck is very customize able and their isnt any deck you really can't beat. Between loads of removal, snapcasters, some planeswalkers, manlands, good countermagic and drawpower, what cant this deck beat? Plus you have the best sideboard options available in these colors.
Hi new player here I've recently ported over from standard (Innistrad, RTR) playing UW control. Got the pieces (snaps, sphinx's etc) so why not make UWR control. Seeing that there is a midrange and control version running around, it seems midrange is pretty popular, but wanna ask what is your take on this two variants. For control build, I do find sometimes I can't finish the opponent. Midrange build I find myself not wanting to cast geist and not sure when to clique, if I am stuck I can't sphinx.
On another note, do I need cliques in a control build?
So ive been told that this is one of the best decks in the format... so wheres the relults? I dont see it top 8ing a whole lot. What decks are keeping it at bay? or is it just the pilots?
Lol just won a pro tour a month ago lol.
According to mtgtop8, uwrcontrol/midrange is 10% of all wins right now...
Pod and twin being 13 and 12% . It wins a lot.
That said it's likely one of the hardest decks to pilot only because you need to know all the other decks almost as well as your own.
Hi new player here I've recently ported over from standard (Innistrad, RTR) playing UW control. Got the pieces (snaps, sphinx's etc) so why not make UWR control. Seeing that there is a midrange and control version running around, it seems midrange is pretty popular, but wanna ask what is your take on this two variants. For control build, I do find sometimes I can't finish the opponent. Midrange build I find myself not wanting to cast geist and not sure when to clique, if I am stuck I can't sphinx.
On another note, do I need cliques in a control build?
Clique isn't 100% needed it will depend on your opponents but it's such a powerful card.
I'm actually partial to running a strong control build but having 2-3 strong sideboard creatures to effectively make a control build more midrange. So keeping 2 geist or 3 resto angels side and subbing in when you find its hard to finish will go a long way.
May be an odd question but anyone had thoughts of a one of surgical extraction main board? With so many combo decks running around we get one of their pieces in the yard we can hose them pretty hard. even works well with boggles, affinity, BGx, pod, etc, taking one of their biggest threats totally out of the game seems like a pretty good deal.
I'd only play it if your meta is half storm. It's too hard to extract a scapeshift or ad nausem. If you're playing ghost quarter over tec edge, I could see playing surgical if you had a lot of tron in your meta.
Against bogles it seems awful, as you lose when they play turn 1 guy and enchant it. Extraction does nothing against that. They have 8-9 more threats if you extract one.
So ive been told that this is one of the best decks in the format... so wheres the relults? I dont see it top 8ing a whole lot. What decks are keeping it at bay? or is it just the pilots?
It's not one of the best decks in the format. It's probably in the 5-10 range.
McLaren was the only UWR control player with 7+ wins. There were 2 other UWx players with 7+ wins but they were more midrange since they played more creatures. The deck did not top 18 GP Richmond. The control deck that top 18'd GP Richmond was a UW tap out deck.
I would say the player capability and customizability (yay fictional words) of the deck pushes it a bit higher unless you are going by sheer numbers. It is a giant skeleton built around gaining card advantage to replenish your answers so it is a little unstable at times, but the deck doesnt seem to have a reputation for having the ability to ignore your opponent. I actually think resto is a great call to push that option into peoples' minds though, depending on how each person plays the deck. I know it leans us more towards UWR Midrange (flash felt more like a control deck to me in standard, and we have better cards in modern).
I am going to have to add a level of complexity to your statement however ("Reactive strategies aren't very good in modern.") because I think "not having a proactive offensive is not very good in modern" but i play faeries, so take my statements with a grain of salt.
Edit: as a fan of resto I can actually say Wrathofmatt's sb strategy has proven effective as game 1 I am seeking openings in my opponent's strategy where a flashy 3/4 can gum up combat or shift the tide of the game. It truly is something of a costly removal spell when I play it though, so it never fully feels like a maindeckable card for this deck without vendilion clique
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
That being said its clearly pod thats the TOP DOG right now with twin being popular because it hates on pod. I mean if pod didnt exist(was banned) would the format be better? more diverse? it seems pods filling junds shoes right now pretty well in terms of being so omni present that its quite possibly warping the format. or am I wrong? I personally would like a format full of variety rather than everyone playing pod at my fnm makes for quite a stale/boring environment.
That being said its clearly pod thats the TOP DOG right now with twin being popular because it hates on pod. I mean if pod didnt exist(was banned) would the format be better? more diverse? it seems pods filling junds shoes right now pretty well in terms of being so omni present that its quite possibly warping the format. or am I wrong? I personally would like a format full of variety rather than everyone playing pod at my fnm makes for quite a stale/boring environment.
you can hate Birthing Pod, but you can't hate Pod deck. the deck is too versatile and resilient to disruption.
So ive been told that this is one of the best decks in the format... so wheres the relults? I dont see it top 8ing a whole lot. What decks are keeping it at bay? or is it just the pilots?
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
So ive been told that this is one of the best decks in the format... so wheres the relults? I dont see it top 8ing a whole lot. What decks are keeping it at bay? or is it just the pilots?
this is also my conclusion after devastated in all my modern local participation (just played 3x only)
Yes it is bad right now, I played a weird flash deck last week locally that seems to be better than straight control. Did decently (2 wins (bogles/mill), 1 draw (RUG Twin), 1 loss (melira pod))but I think I am moving to twin or scapeshift for a more proactive strategy. This deck isn't the way to go right now although I do think its a good deck in a vacuum. Its just not a good deck with today's meta.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I dont think the deck is bad at all. I play it just fine, with some minor tweaks like maindeck supreme verdicts, but thats about it. I mean, you have counters to stop things like pod from resolving and loads of removal, plus snapcaster mages. Your removal is cheap anough to keep up with affinity decks. Your countemagic is varied and strong from beginning to late game. I mean, if you want to add a finisher aside from Gideon/Colonnades, then add batterskull or something. Your sideboard options are ridiculously strong. Just practice, dont buy the "this deck isnt good in the meta" complete nonsense.
I dont think the deck is bad at all. I play it just fine, with some minor tweaks like maindeck supreme verdicts, but thats about it. I mean, you have counters to stop things like pod from resolving and loads of removal, plus snapcaster mages. Your removal is cheap anough to keep up with affinity decks. Your countemagic is varied and strong from beginning to late game. I mean, if you want to add a finisher aside from Gideon/Colonnades, then add batterskull or something. Your sideboard options are ridiculously strong. Just practice, dont buy the "this deck isnt good in the meta" complete nonsense.
Agreed. I don't think anyone is claiming this deck is #1 but I look at the numbers, uwr in both control and midrange variant make up as many wins as pod or twin and some of twin is uwr twin. The shell of this deck is highly relevant due to the reason you just listed.
That being said its clearly pod thats the TOP DOG right now with twin being popular because it hates on pod. I mean if pod didnt exist(was banned) would the format be better? more diverse? it seems pods filling junds shoes right now pretty well in terms of being so omni present that its quite possibly warping the format. or am I wrong? I personally would like a format full of variety rather than everyone playing pod at my fnm makes for quite a stale/boring environment.
you can hate Birthing Pod, but you can't hate Pod deck. the deck is too versatile and resilient to disruption.
it's a good deck, but i think it's not broken.
It is easy to hate out the whole Melira Pod deck (see Anger of the Gods and Gifts-Rites into Elesh Norn).
I dont think the deck is bad at all. I play it just fine, with some minor tweaks like maindeck supreme verdicts, but thats about it. I mean, you have counters to stop things like pod from resolving and loads of removal, plus snapcaster mages. Your removal is cheap anough to keep up with affinity decks. Your countemagic is varied and strong from beginning to late game. I mean, if you want to add a finisher aside from Gideon/Colonnades, then add batterskull or something. Your sideboard options are ridiculously strong. Just practice, dont buy the "this deck isnt good in the meta" complete nonsense.
Yep exactly.
But, what if you once left behind (mana screw or mana flood)? This deck weakness is it can't keep up if 1-2 turn get left behind, unlike other deck which still can recover.
It's like, good draws or die.
My 3 losses at my last event is because i get mana screwed. All of them. And my 2 wins is via a bye and a not-mana-screwed game.
I don't know, maybe this is a common problem among all reactive control decks?
That being said its clearly pod thats the TOP DOG right now with twin being popular because it hates on pod. I mean if pod didnt exist(was banned) would the format be better? more diverse? it seems pods filling junds shoes right now pretty well in terms of being so omni present that its quite possibly warping the format. or am I wrong? I personally would like a format full of variety rather than everyone playing pod at my fnm makes for quite a stale/boring environment.
you can hate Birthing Pod, but you can't hate Pod deck. the deck is too versatile and resilient to disruption.
it's a good deck, but i think it's not broken.
It is easy to hate out the whole Melira Pod deck (see Anger of the Gods and Gifts-Rites into Elesh Norn).
Anger of Gods only played as a singleton, so it's not that effective.
Rites is not even in uwr color, so, i don't consider it at my post.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
My 3 losses at my last event is because i get mana screwed. All of them. And my 2 wins is via a bye and a not-mana-screwed game.
I don't know, maybe this is a common problem among all reactive control decks?
In Legacy it's not common since the best control deck, UWR miracles, has access to 4 brainstorm, 4 top, 0-2 ponders, 1-3 snapcaster mages. The mana is so good in legacy that you can easily play around wasteland in your 3 color deck. You could even run blood moon if you wanted.
In standard mana screw does not happen that often since you play some number of azorius charm, divination, and quicken. And decks play 6-12 scrylands. But standard is a different animal. Since combo isn't really a thing in the format, and you can just pack your deck full or removal spells and not get punished. Though the control decks in standard easily lose to the burn deck. There's not much you can do to improve the burn match up anyways. The best cards you can play is fiendslayer paladin, blind obedience, and archangel of thune. Which aren't that amazing like a leyline of sanctity or kor firewalker.
The control decks in modern need better 1 mana cantrips, or counterspell.
Really? Counterflux is a house against storm. Overloaded flux 2x vs stom yesterday. Been running 2 main board as I only own 2 cryptics and wanted another hard counter. Early game kill the electromancers, counter assention. Once flux mana is up just sit and wait till they storm out and empty their hand, then its usually gg.
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
There's 2 basic ways to win with Storm, with a backup plan and Warrens out the sideboard:
1) You get an active Pyromancer's Ascension. Then a single draw spell can flip your entire deck.
2) You get a pile of rituals/Electromancers + Past in Flames.
Backup: meagerly piece together exact lethal damage with a bunch of rituals and cantrips in hand.
The first 2 plans involve flipping most of your deck and generating 20+ mana and multiple copies of Past in Flames in the graveyard, in the process. Even if you overload Counterflux, it doesn't matter. They can just recast Grapeshot. I've seen bad Storm players get lazy and fire of Grapeshot for exact damage instead of spending the time to go deep into their deck, but that's just poor play.
If you're overloading Counterflux on their actual Storm spell instead of just playing it as Cancel, it's either due to the Empty the Warrens sideboard plan or you drawing your early disruption and them trying to scrape together a win with the bad leftovers.
EDIT: That or you could be oblivious to the fact that 4 mana and Counterflux doesn't do anything if you just let them cast all their spells, and have gotten lucky so far with them fizzling after you counter the Grapeshot. Gambling that they don't have it may work a percentage of the time, but that's not the kind of play I like to make.
But yeah I agree, I think storm, not totally unlike uwr is very skill dependent, more so than many other decks it seems like.
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
decks playing:
none
Hmmm...it did just win the pro-tour..soooooo...yeah. Not sure how else to respond.
That being said it is extremely skill intensive to pilot.
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
On another note, do I need cliques in a control build?
Lol just won a pro tour a month ago lol.
According to mtgtop8, uwrcontrol/midrange is 10% of all wins right now...
Pod and twin being 13 and 12% . It wins a lot.
That said it's likely one of the hardest decks to pilot only because you need to know all the other decks almost as well as your own.
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
Clique isn't 100% needed it will depend on your opponents but it's such a powerful card.
I'm actually partial to running a strong control build but having 2-3 strong sideboard creatures to effectively make a control build more midrange. So keeping 2 geist or 3 resto angels side and subbing in when you find its hard to finish will go a long way.
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
I'd only play it if your meta is half storm. It's too hard to extract a scapeshift or ad nausem. If you're playing ghost quarter over tec edge, I could see playing surgical if you had a lot of tron in your meta.
Against bogles it seems awful, as you lose when they play turn 1 guy and enchant it. Extraction does nothing against that. They have 8-9 more threats if you extract one.
It's not one of the best decks in the format. It's probably in the 5-10 range.
McLaren was the only UWR control player with 7+ wins. There were 2 other UWx players with 7+ wins but they were more midrange since they played more creatures. The deck did not top 18 GP Richmond. The control deck that top 18'd GP Richmond was a UW tap out deck.
Reactive strategies aren't very good in modern.
I am going to have to add a level of complexity to your statement however ("Reactive strategies aren't very good in modern.") because I think "not having a proactive offensive is not very good in modern" but i play faeries, so take my statements with a grain of salt.
Edit: as a fan of resto I can actually say Wrathofmatt's sb strategy has proven effective as game 1 I am seeking openings in my opponent's strategy where a flashy 3/4 can gum up combat or shift the tide of the game. It truly is something of a costly removal spell when I play it though, so it never fully feels like a maindeckable card for this deck without vendilion clique
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
decks playing:
none
tron. near 0% chance of winning. i hate tron decks tbh.
you can hate Birthing Pod, but you can't hate Pod deck. the deck is too versatile and resilient to disruption.
it's a good deck, but i think it's not broken.
this is also my conclusion after devastated in all my modern local participation (just played 3x only)
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Yes it is bad right now, I played a weird flash deck last week locally that seems to be better than straight control. Did decently (2 wins (bogles/mill), 1 draw (RUG Twin), 1 loss (melira pod))but I think I am moving to twin or scapeshift for a more proactive strategy. This deck isn't the way to go right now although I do think its a good deck in a vacuum. Its just not a good deck with today's meta.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Agreed. I don't think anyone is claiming this deck is #1 but I look at the numbers, uwr in both control and midrange variant make up as many wins as pod or twin and some of twin is uwr twin. The shell of this deck is highly relevant due to the reason you just listed.
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
It is easy to hate out the whole Melira Pod deck (see Anger of the Gods and Gifts-Rites into Elesh Norn).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yep exactly.
But, what if you once left behind (mana screw or mana flood)? This deck weakness is it can't keep up if 1-2 turn get left behind, unlike other deck which still can recover.
It's like, good draws or die.
My 3 losses at my last event is because i get mana screwed. All of them. And my 2 wins is via a bye and a not-mana-screwed game.
I don't know, maybe this is a common problem among all reactive control decks?
Anger of Gods only played as a singleton, so it's not that effective.
Rites is not even in uwr color, so, i don't consider it at my post.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
In Legacy it's not common since the best control deck, UWR miracles, has access to 4 brainstorm, 4 top, 0-2 ponders, 1-3 snapcaster mages. The mana is so good in legacy that you can easily play around wasteland in your 3 color deck. You could even run blood moon if you wanted.
In standard mana screw does not happen that often since you play some number of azorius charm, divination, and quicken. And decks play 6-12 scrylands. But standard is a different animal. Since combo isn't really a thing in the format, and you can just pack your deck full or removal spells and not get punished. Though the control decks in standard easily lose to the burn deck. There's not much you can do to improve the burn match up anyways. The best cards you can play is fiendslayer paladin, blind obedience, and archangel of thune. Which aren't that amazing like a leyline of sanctity or kor firewalker.
The control decks in modern need better 1 mana cantrips, or counterspell.