Why in god's name are you cutting Goblin Guide or Swiftspear? They are the best cards in this deck, and I would contend that Swiftspear is actually bolstering our Tier 1 status up more so than Eidolon. And while some of these cards do occasionally get sided out in certain matchups, it's a very fine line. Either way, it's a cold day in hell before I start cutting Guide and Swiftspear from a Burn list. Colour me baffled.
You seem to be the little expert, don't you? I found them to be terrible Cruise draws and just bad late game. Why focus on creatures that are terrible against almost every deck imaginable past turn 5?
Even with the reduced numbers I consistently get a creature. 2 out of 60 is 3% chance of not running into the creature I need on turn one vs other times. The added bonus is I can receive a spell more easily off Cruise when the board state is not in my favor. In case you didn't know, Cruising into Lightning Bolt + Shard Volley is generally more impactful than a Monastery Swiftspear on turn 7 that has to contend with a board state of Siege Rhinos and Voice of Resurgence tokens. A creature doesn't win the game at that point.
Your inability to grasp this is baffling me. Maybe Eidolon should be brought down to 2 before the other creatures, but adhering to one core, glue idea is always much more dangerous than thinking outside the box. Of course, why take someone's opinion with much merit who believes playing the defensive game in burn is the right meta call.
It doesn't take an expert to identify when decisions are being made for the wrong reasons.
First, I apologize if my post was a bit harsh. I could have probably just said, "Why are you cutting Guide/Spear?".
Now, I'm not an expert. If you want an expert's opinion, ask Patrick Sullivan. However, I've played Red decks for over a decade, and I know what I'm doing with them. I also have never played less than 4 Goblin Guide in a Burn deck since the card was printed. There are plenty of times I have sided the card out (such as against Pod for instance), but I think you want to start 4 of them every time in a diverse meta.
Swiftspear, to me, is even more valuable when Guide starts looking lackluster. Against any of the creature decks you mentioned, it's very easy to attack with Spear while holding up mana and threatening to pump it. Often, you can just Searing Blaze their only blocker and push it through. The fact that you have all these creature decks in your meta, yet only run 3 Searing Blaze, makes me incredulous. In any case, Swiftspear will easily trade off with a roadblock if you play your cards right. Guide might get quickly outclassed against stuff like Zoo, but it's too good against other decks that can't deal it right away to be cut. You can always reduce your numbers after boarding, but for game 1, I'd much rather have all the hasty threats possible.
It wasn't so much that you cut these creatures, it was that you proclaimed your list as the "Best Possible". I think it's a great list, but it's trying to do too much. Usually when you start cutting core cards, it's a good idea to reasses why you are making these choices.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
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I was just referring to the development of the meta game insofar as creature quality. Lately, it seems my shop has an increase in aggro decks, such as Pod, that make our creatures completely outclassed. I agree thoroughly that they are great early game, but that is not where burn has its issues. The true problem lies in the late game when we need to bolster out a few damage to win. I cannot count the number of times I was sitting on no cards in my hand and my opponent at 3 life just to draw two creatures that were going to be bolted/run over.
This is certainly not saying I would drop either one entirely. A slight quantity adjustment may be all that is necessary. I am just wanting to experiment with possible ways to increase Cruise's effectiveness on the card, since that is the card that gives us the most reach. Reach is what we should be focusing on. I would even say a mainboarded Geist of Saint Traft is important here.
I wish black could be run in conjunction with Treasure Cruise, but it's too inconsistent. For right now, it seems like burn is in an awkward spot and needs to just perpetuate the Jeskai build until things shape up.
The deck seems in an awkward position at the moment, I know for a fact plenty of players feel the same way.
._.
The "phiosophy of fire" has always been a key starting point when someone starts building an aggressive red deck, in theory we only need 7 spells and deal 3 damage on average per card used. When in practice this proves harder than one can expect, simply put, it won´t always be the case. Cards like treasure cruise or shrine of the burning rage help with generating inevitability, if given enough time, treasure cruise gives us 3 new spells, while shrine if left unchecked, will potentially deal enormous amounts of damage (though it is a horrible topdeck when you simply want a friggin` lightning bolt).
There are two questions surrounding the deck at the moment, which colours to splash and whether we go after the full cruise build and perhaps even reduce the amount of creatures to maximize the effectiveness of each cruise we resolve. The Delver decks run few creatures, but they generate potential value out of every single one of them, while goblin guide and swiftspear are amazing early game but once the board is clogged up with permanents that can block in the lategame, they somehow feel lackluster when you draw them after you resolve a treasure cruise. So we come to the question once again, do we cut off creatures to go for an even more spell heavy list? Can that actually work?
I personally don´t think the burn deck is in a position where we can max out on treasure cruise and use it to its full potential. We don´t generate enough velocity to keep it going constantly, most our spells don´t cantrip. The deck has performed great in the past before cruise was printed, but that card seems to be the answer to our biggest problem before hand - lackluster late game as there is no virtual card advantage in the deck.
When left unchecked, the burn deck should always kill on turn 4, at most turn 5. But we always face pressure from opponents and creatures, not to mention the possibility of a combo deck going off. To achieve this, running a list filled with 4-of-each-card seems to be in a safe position, yet Adrian Sullivan (great deckbuilder) alongside Tom Ross (who I trust completely in his decision making in deck building) have repeatedly stated how overvalued this concept can be. Plenty of times you don´t in fact want 4 of each card to generate the most value out of the speed an aggressive deck can achieve.
I am running a very straightforward list. Boros Burn with no blue splash, I suppose the answers to all these questions are found only after playing a great deal a pretty basic list.
No Blue. No Black. No Green. I´ve started off with a straightforward list and ask myself, what does this deck need (?) and what consequences come with it(?). It is indeed playing it safe . 3 skullcracks main and 2 FoTBH as a concession to how much lifegain we see in pod and such decks.
Before treasure cruise was printed, I was considering a single Aggressive Mining on the board to side in against attrition based matchups and to fight against flooding. you would have to rely mostly on a Mardu Shell with bump in the night as the extra bolt- no flames of the blood hand. Treasure cruise is the better card, now with its arrival the deck seems to try and adopt it as its only source of card advantage to answer flooding problems and lategame issues. Competitive lists are running it, I´m not questioning its power level since it´s most likely getting banned due to how format warping it can be, but is it the best we´ve got to answer all these issues? Monastery Swiftspear and Eidolon have pushed the deck to tier 1 status and yet, it seems like the deck is at an awkward position at the moment.
The less creatures we run the more powerful Leyline of Sanctity becomes and we suffer more a mulligan to side, than American, BGx, Pod and combo decks.
And Pod is coming back as the favorite child, Delver's reign was explosive but apparently people still don't like how unreliable the title card is and are going back to Pod.
The deck seems in an awkward position at the moment, I know for a fact plenty of players feel the same way.
._.
The "phiosophy of fire" has always been a key starting point when someone starts building an aggressive red deck, in theory we only need 7 spells and deal 3 damage on average per card used. When in practice this proves harder than one can expect, simply put, it won´t always be the case. Cards like treasure cruise or shrine of the burning rage help with generating inevitability, if given enough time, treasure cruise gives us 3 new spells, while shrine if left unchecked, will potentially deal enormous amounts of damage (though it is a horrible topdeck when you simply want a friggin` lightning bolt).
There are two questions surrounding the deck at the moment, which colours to splash and whether we go after the full cruise build and perhaps even reduce the amount of creatures to maximize the effectiveness of each cruise we resolve. The Delver decks run few creatures, but they generate potential value out of every single one of them, while goblin guide and swiftspear are amazing early game but once the board is clogged up with permanents that can block in the lategame, they somehow feel lackluster when you draw them after you resolve a treasure cruise. So we come to the question once again, do we cut off creatures to go for an even more spell heavy list? Can that actually work?
I personally don´t think the burn deck is in a position where we can max out on treasure cruise and use it to its full potential. We don´t generate enough velocity to keep it going constantly, most our spells don´t cantrip. The deck has performed great in the past before cruise was printed, but that card seems to be the answer to our biggest problem before hand - lackluster late game as there is no virtual card advantage in the deck.
When left unchecked, the burn deck should always kill on turn 4, at most turn 5. But we always face pressure from opponents and creatures, not to mention the possibility of a combo deck going off. To achieve this, running a list filled with 4-of-each-card seems to be in a safe position, yet Adrian Sullivan (great deckbuilder) alongside Tom Ross (who I trust completely in his decision making in deck building) have repeatedly stated how overvalued this concept can be. Plenty of times you don´t in fact want 4 of each card to generate the most value out of the speed an aggressive deck can achieve.
I am running a very straightforward list. Boros Burn with no blue splash, I suppose the answers to all these questions are found only after playing a great deal a pretty basic list.
No Blue. No Black. No Green. I´ve started off with a straightforward list and ask myself, what does this deck need (?) and what consequences come with it(?). It is indeed playing it safe . 3 skullcracks main and 2 FoTBH as a concession to how much lifegain we see in pod and such decks.
Before treasure cruise was printed, I was considering a single Aggressive Mining on the board to side in against attrition based matchups and to fight against flooding. you would have to rely mostly on a Mardu Shell with bump in the night as the extra bolt- no flames of the blood hand. Treasure cruise is the better card, now with its arrival the deck seems to try and adopt it as its only source of card advantage to answer flooding problems and lategame issues. Competitive lists are running it, I´m not questioning its power level since it´s most likely getting banned due to how format warping it can be, but is it the best we´ve got to answer all these issues? Monastery Swiftspear and Eidolon have pushed the deck to tier 1 status and yet, it seems like the deck is at an awkward position at the moment.
I do think we need that one extra card to provide reach. Geist or Shrine of Burning rage really stood out to me as the primary contenders. Each one can potentially be a massive threat if left unchecked and let's face it, Abrupt Decay is the only card run right now that can deal with shrine. The problem with this approach is a lack of consistency. Burn has the power of every card having value in itself. Something like Shrine has no value unless its played early game. This approach provides both positive and negative outcomes. While it makes our top decks much better, it doesn't allow for cards that may potentially change games like the Shrine.
As far as the color splash is concerned, Mardu provides its advantages. Bump circumvents Dragon's Claw and Spellskite, yet creates inconsistency in the land draws. For the time being, I feel Jeskai is the strongest build. No single card exists that can potentially generate the value like Cruise. Lavamancer is a close contender, but he's a body that can be bolted down before doing anything. Cruise is just a spell. Of course, There are some strong contenders in the other colors, however. It may not be a horrible idea to run a blood crypt in lieu of Stomping ground for the sideboard options. I wonder if Rain of Gore should be an auto-include against any deck running Helix, Ajani, Scavenging Ooze, etc. The only card that kills it is Abrupt Decay.
What I think we need is another creature. I know this goes against what I stated above, but Goblin Guide and Monastery are designed for early game speed, not sustainability. Additionally, they were released close to a time when Pod wasn't the strongest deck in the format. To survive, we need reach; cards that provide some instant benefit. There are some forgotten about, such as Keldon Marauders, Hell's Thunder, Geist of Saint Traft, Plated Geopede, or even Ash Zealot. The reason i suggest Thunder and Marauders is, while not directly burn in and of themselves, they have an instant benefit in to addition to being bodies. Thunder can unearth late game, and the 5 unearth will happen much more frequently than Bump's. Most decks don't run too many fliers: Scapeshift runs none, Delver one (which is always going to attack), Pod doesn't guarantee to pull out Thrun, Affinity's Vault Skirge should always be killed, and Merfolk none. I've also not found it difficult to Cruise with more than 7 cards in my graveyard to avoid pulling out the Thunder. Focusing too much on the Guide/Swiftspear package also makes this much harder to do.
- Try cutting down the Spears and Guides to 3 a piece. This creates better cruise draws
- Include a Blood Crypt in place of Stomping Ground for Rain of Gore, which hits every deck not running Abrupt Decay
- Jeskai/Boros are the best possible color combinations. mardu is too inconsistent.
- I have lost a total of 6 games by running out of gas and having my opponent stabilize.
If we're going to be competitive in the current meta game, there are changes that need to be made. Cruise, I feel like, is the answer. We don't have a huge number of cantrips, but we have the best cruise draws of any deck running it. A hand full of 3 burn spells is a value of 9 damage, something that can Delver can't do.
Edit: We have to be aware, we don't know what the new set will provide. It can always make our tier status even worse, but simultaneously, the possibility exists we will receive yet another answer. Look how impactful KTK alone was. In the event Treasure Cruise is banned, Mardu is where we want to be. If the suggestions above are taken into consideration is another story. I feel any list not running Cruise is running Lavamancer. He is the solution to sustainability without Cruise. If Cruise is gone, Delver is gone. That means a switch away from red hate and less lightning bolt (hopefully.) I feel like Pod will be the next boogie man and so we will be able to experiment with more cards that can't be immediately bolted down. Additionally, there is the issue I've always had in mind of Helix vs Shard Volley vs Flames of the Bloodhand. Do we want reach or speed? Is a 3cmc worth the lifegain hate and extra damage? Are life totals enough of an issue to run Helix? Should we even go as far as to switch to a more "Big Boros" build, similar to Skred?
These are things we need to settle if we plan on bringing this deck back to its glory.
I want to start experimenting with a "Big Boros"/Skred type build:
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
You can also play 4 Skullcracks and 4 Flames of the Bloodhand, which is a total of 8 anti-life gain cards main board. Added with Leyline of Punishment in the side, the oppponent would never be given the opportunity to gain life.
Destructive Revelry is great, but it defeats the purpose of saving yourself the extra damage from shocklands. Fetchlands are always useful. I would run as many as 12 in a mono red build to filter out land draws.
Blood Moon is such a relevant card in nearly every meta game. That is the only reason I would run mono red.
Why does it defeat the purpose? you run a single shock in the side or main.
12 fetches seems like a lot; statistically if you draw 3 fetches it reduces the chance that your next draw is a land by roughly 1/10th. It's not trivial but not game breaking either.
Lately tehre's been a concern with running out of gas. Personally, I'm not fond of Treasure Cruise. I'm running a RBW build (usual for its combination), and have added 4 Dark Confidants. I have to say I'm pretty happy with them. I'm running 8 1-cost creatures, which usually eat removal, and I guess that's why Bob tends to stay. I'd say I've won every single match where I played it. Nobody can't stand up to burn at twice the speed per turn.
I used to play mardu. I loved it,but again, it faced the same inconsistencies stated prior. I can't think of anything I want to run beyond Treasure Cruise. Give me a write up of your deck?
Edit: oddly enough, I seemed to have the same success with my Mardu build.
Has anyone else tried a singleton Geist in the MB? There are a few more results with him in the SB and I want to see his viability as a deck option.
That Shard Volley should have been a Geist and writting it as such, because a friend was lending it but forgot it and I had already given in my registry sheet, got me a game loss on match 2.
R1 vs RUG Delver 2-0
Easy wins by just counting to 21.
R2 vs Orzhov Midrange 1-2
Game loss, I won g2 with a surge of bolts off of Treasure Cruise, he won g3 by playing Kor Firewalker turns 3, 4 and 5!
R3 vs GBw 2-0
Won easy by hunting the damned Rhino with Skullcrack, otherwise I would have lost, that thing is too savage against us.
R4 vs UR Twin 1-2
There had been no twin at the LGS for over 4 months, I dropped the Combusts, never drew my Wear//Tear and both times he won out of Exarch so hunting the combo starter with bolt was not even an option. Adding insult to injury, g3 my natural hand was Mountain-Mountain-Mountain-Steam Vents-3x Treasure Cruise, absolutely horrid.
R5 vs Jund 2-0
Hunting the Ooze won me both games, Liliana contributed a lot to fueling three Treasure Cruise, 2 g1 and 1 g2.
Top 8 QF vs Abzan Midrange 2-1
He won g2 as I didn´t draw a single spell other than the 3 bolts already in my natural hand despite pulling over 10 lands out of the deck with draws and fetchlands. The other two were normal count to 21 matches helped a lot by a greedy mana-base and a blanking Thoughtseize.
Top 8 SF vs Pod 1-2
Both games went down to him having more power in the table than I could deal damage despite my orbs neutering his triggers. Chalice at 1, removal, powerful threats, this deck has it all. I think if both players are playing at their best, the die roll decides who wins, games are always that close.
I wish I had Rakdos Charm in my match against Twin, but to tell the truth I do believe Boros splash U is the best configuration right now as Treasure Cruise is dumb strong. I also really liked the checklands in here. They never interfered with casting Cruise but did save me a lot of pain against Delver, Jund and Junk, pain that could have made me misplay in fear of huge ass Tarmos coming my way into slow-playing and losing. Give them a test run and tell me how you feel.
I was just referring to the development of the meta game insofar as creature quality. Lately, it seems my shop has an increase in aggro decks, such as Pod, that make our creatures completely outclassed. I agree thoroughly that they are great early game, but that is not where burn has its issues. The true problem lies in the late game when we need to bolster out a few damage to win. I cannot count the number of times I was sitting on no cards in my hand and my opponent at 3 life just to draw two creatures that were going to be bolted/run over.
This is certainly not saying I would drop either one entirely. A slight quantity adjustment may be all that is necessary. I am just wanting to experiment with possible ways to increase Cruise's effectiveness on the card, since that is the card that gives us the most reach. Reach is what we should be focusing on. I would even say a mainboarded Geist of Saint Traft is important here.
I wish black could be run in conjunction with Treasure Cruise, but it's too inconsistent. For right now, it seems like burn is in an awkward spot and needs to just perpetuate the Jeskai build until things shape up.
I guess my biggest question about your struggles against creature decks is why you don't max out on Searing Blaze/Bloods in your 75. Have you not found those cards to be effective enough? I realize Blood isn't the best against Merfolk and Zoo, but against Pod and Affinity (and Delver, the mirror, etc), they both seem great.
After maxing out on those, and still finding that your creatures aren't getting through, I can understand being frustrated. But I still think unless you don't expect to see stuff like Storm, Ascendancy, Scapeshift, Tron, Twin, Control, etc. at all, than you really want the 8 hasty creatures.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Assuming Bloodbraid Elf gets unbanned, how do you guys feel about using that card in a burn deck?
You should probably keep the banned discussion in the banned thread. FWIW, he seems a little slow for this deck, and a little more mid-range. Don't get me wrong. BBE is a great card, but he didn't see much play in this deck when he was legal. There was a RG Aggro deck prior to his banning that was seeing some fringe play.
Sorry about that. Thanks for the quick reply also. Just looking at some cards and like what many people are saying, I feel as if burn is in a weird state right now also. Configurations for colors is really up to the player which is not too much of a bad thing. I don't think Cruise will be banned but as of right now I still like my Mardu burn.
I like the idea of Dark Confidant that was suggested earlier. Anyone else test out a build using him?
I did the Dark Confidant thing way back when Modern was in it's first PTQ season. While I thought he would be great for this deck, I found him to be less than desired. He basically eats removal and does little else. Eidolon of the Great Revel is essentially a strict upgrade, since it also eats removal at the 2cmc slot, but at least deals 2 damage.
I've been playing around with a 4c version lately. The biggest issue I have with this is that you have to flood out to get all of your mana fixing, which is a bad position for this deck to be in. Often times I am stuck trying to decide fetching for shock a, or shock b, and end up with cards I can't cast in my hand. I'm going to go back to the Jeskai build, and if Treasure Cruise gets the ban I will switch back to Mardu.
Im considering taking out fetches due to Leonin Arbiter plus increase in facing the mirror. Thoughts? Also marauders is for chumping goyfs. Which is in half the decks at my store, would not bring this list to a GP or PT but great for my stores meta. EDIT: I have peak eruption over molten rain since the only deck I bring it in for is twin, u/w/r and ascendancy and delver. no tron and maybe will add rain for pod but 1 damage is alot for only one deck, works for affinity but the only guy who plays it only comes like once every 3 weeks.
To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
had 40 people we did 6 rounds Half of tournament was Pod lol, rest were mixed, faced pod,burn,delver,pod,pod,jeskai accendency, lost to last one unearthed turn 4 killed me lolz.
but Ensaring Bridge helped alot against pod rhino couldnt attack and i kept a small hand and burnt him out.
-MH
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It doesn't take an expert to identify when decisions are being made for the wrong reasons.
First, I apologize if my post was a bit harsh. I could have probably just said, "Why are you cutting Guide/Spear?".
Now, I'm not an expert. If you want an expert's opinion, ask Patrick Sullivan. However, I've played Red decks for over a decade, and I know what I'm doing with them. I also have never played less than 4 Goblin Guide in a Burn deck since the card was printed. There are plenty of times I have sided the card out (such as against Pod for instance), but I think you want to start 4 of them every time in a diverse meta.
Swiftspear, to me, is even more valuable when Guide starts looking lackluster. Against any of the creature decks you mentioned, it's very easy to attack with Spear while holding up mana and threatening to pump it. Often, you can just Searing Blaze their only blocker and push it through. The fact that you have all these creature decks in your meta, yet only run 3 Searing Blaze, makes me incredulous. In any case, Swiftspear will easily trade off with a roadblock if you play your cards right. Guide might get quickly outclassed against stuff like Zoo, but it's too good against other decks that can't deal it right away to be cut. You can always reduce your numbers after boarding, but for game 1, I'd much rather have all the hasty threats possible.
It wasn't so much that you cut these creatures, it was that you proclaimed your list as the "Best Possible". I think it's a great list, but it's trying to do too much. Usually when you start cutting core cards, it's a good idea to reasses why you are making these choices.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I was just referring to the development of the meta game insofar as creature quality. Lately, it seems my shop has an increase in aggro decks, such as Pod, that make our creatures completely outclassed. I agree thoroughly that they are great early game, but that is not where burn has its issues. The true problem lies in the late game when we need to bolster out a few damage to win. I cannot count the number of times I was sitting on no cards in my hand and my opponent at 3 life just to draw two creatures that were going to be bolted/run over.
This is certainly not saying I would drop either one entirely. A slight quantity adjustment may be all that is necessary. I am just wanting to experiment with possible ways to increase Cruise's effectiveness on the card, since that is the card that gives us the most reach. Reach is what we should be focusing on. I would even say a mainboarded Geist of Saint Traft is important here.
I wish black could be run in conjunction with Treasure Cruise, but it's too inconsistent. For right now, it seems like burn is in an awkward spot and needs to just perpetuate the Jeskai build until things shape up.
._.
The "phiosophy of fire" has always been a key starting point when someone starts building an aggressive red deck, in theory we only need 7 spells and deal 3 damage on average per card used. When in practice this proves harder than one can expect, simply put, it won´t always be the case. Cards like treasure cruise or shrine of the burning rage help with generating inevitability, if given enough time, treasure cruise gives us 3 new spells, while shrine if left unchecked, will potentially deal enormous amounts of damage (though it is a horrible topdeck when you simply want a friggin` lightning bolt).
There are two questions surrounding the deck at the moment, which colours to splash and whether we go after the full cruise build and perhaps even reduce the amount of creatures to maximize the effectiveness of each cruise we resolve. The Delver decks run few creatures, but they generate potential value out of every single one of them, while goblin guide and swiftspear are amazing early game but once the board is clogged up with permanents that can block in the lategame, they somehow feel lackluster when you draw them after you resolve a treasure cruise. So we come to the question once again, do we cut off creatures to go for an even more spell heavy list? Can that actually work?
I personally don´t think the burn deck is in a position where we can max out on treasure cruise and use it to its full potential. We don´t generate enough velocity to keep it going constantly, most our spells don´t cantrip. The deck has performed great in the past before cruise was printed, but that card seems to be the answer to our biggest problem before hand - lackluster late game as there is no virtual card advantage in the deck.
When left unchecked, the burn deck should always kill on turn 4, at most turn 5. But we always face pressure from opponents and creatures, not to mention the possibility of a combo deck going off. To achieve this, running a list filled with 4-of-each-card seems to be in a safe position, yet Adrian Sullivan (great deckbuilder) alongside Tom Ross (who I trust completely in his decision making in deck building) have repeatedly stated how overvalued this concept can be. Plenty of times you don´t in fact want 4 of each card to generate the most value out of the speed an aggressive deck can achieve.
I am running a very straightforward list. Boros Burn with no blue splash, I suppose the answers to all these questions are found only after playing a great deal a pretty basic list.
No Blue. No Black. No Green. I´ve started off with a straightforward list and ask myself, what does this deck need (?) and what consequences come with it(?). It is indeed playing it safe . 3 skullcracks main and 2 FoTBH as a concession to how much lifegain we see in pod and such decks.
Before treasure cruise was printed, I was considering a single Aggressive Mining on the board to side in against attrition based matchups and to fight against flooding. you would have to rely mostly on a Mardu Shell with bump in the night as the extra bolt- no flames of the blood hand. Treasure cruise is the better card, now with its arrival the deck seems to try and adopt it as its only source of card advantage to answer flooding problems and lategame issues. Competitive lists are running it, I´m not questioning its power level since it´s most likely getting banned due to how format warping it can be, but is it the best we´ve got to answer all these issues? Monastery Swiftspear and Eidolon have pushed the deck to tier 1 status and yet, it seems like the deck is at an awkward position at the moment.
And Pod is coming back as the favorite child, Delver's reign was explosive but apparently people still don't like how unreliable the title card is and are going back to Pod.
I do think we need that one extra card to provide reach. Geist or Shrine of Burning rage really stood out to me as the primary contenders. Each one can potentially be a massive threat if left unchecked and let's face it, Abrupt Decay is the only card run right now that can deal with shrine. The problem with this approach is a lack of consistency. Burn has the power of every card having value in itself. Something like Shrine has no value unless its played early game. This approach provides both positive and negative outcomes. While it makes our top decks much better, it doesn't allow for cards that may potentially change games like the Shrine.
As far as the color splash is concerned, Mardu provides its advantages. Bump circumvents Dragon's Claw and Spellskite, yet creates inconsistency in the land draws. For the time being, I feel Jeskai is the strongest build. No single card exists that can potentially generate the value like Cruise. Lavamancer is a close contender, but he's a body that can be bolted down before doing anything. Cruise is just a spell. Of course, There are some strong contenders in the other colors, however. It may not be a horrible idea to run a blood crypt in lieu of Stomping ground for the sideboard options. I wonder if Rain of Gore should be an auto-include against any deck running Helix, Ajani, Scavenging Ooze, etc. The only card that kills it is Abrupt Decay.
What I think we need is another creature. I know this goes against what I stated above, but Goblin Guide and Monastery are designed for early game speed, not sustainability. Additionally, they were released close to a time when Pod wasn't the strongest deck in the format. To survive, we need reach; cards that provide some instant benefit. There are some forgotten about, such as Keldon Marauders, Hell's Thunder, Geist of Saint Traft, Plated Geopede, or even Ash Zealot. The reason i suggest Thunder and Marauders is, while not directly burn in and of themselves, they have an instant benefit in to addition to being bodies. Thunder can unearth late game, and the 5 unearth will happen much more frequently than Bump's. Most decks don't run too many fliers: Scapeshift runs none, Delver one (which is always going to attack), Pod doesn't guarantee to pull out Thrun, Affinity's Vault Skirge should always be killed, and Merfolk none. I've also not found it difficult to Cruise with more than 7 cards in my graveyard to avoid pulling out the Thunder. Focusing too much on the Guide/Swiftspear package also makes this much harder to do.
Here are a few things I've gathered/want to experiment with:
Shrine of Burning Rage
Hell's Thunder
Geist of Saint Traft
Ash Zealot (I don't know if this affects Pod, if at all. May not be the right meta call)
Flames of the Bloodhand
Spike Jester
Boros Reckoner Too slow?
Fanatic of Mogis this is one card I've always wanted to bring back into modern. Perhaps too slow
Geralf's Messenger a slight consideration for Mardu.
Chandra's Phoenix probably too small of a benefit, especially with path
Frostburn Weird
Pyrite Spellbomb
- Try cutting down the Spears and Guides to 3 a piece. This creates better cruise draws
- Include a Blood Crypt in place of Stomping Ground for Rain of Gore, which hits every deck not running Abrupt Decay
- Jeskai/Boros are the best possible color combinations. mardu is too inconsistent.
- I have lost a total of 6 games by running out of gas and having my opponent stabilize.
If we're going to be competitive in the current meta game, there are changes that need to be made. Cruise, I feel like, is the answer. We don't have a huge number of cantrips, but we have the best cruise draws of any deck running it. A hand full of 3 burn spells is a value of 9 damage, something that can Delver can't do.
Edit: We have to be aware, we don't know what the new set will provide. It can always make our tier status even worse, but simultaneously, the possibility exists we will receive yet another answer. Look how impactful KTK alone was. In the event Treasure Cruise is banned, Mardu is where we want to be. If the suggestions above are taken into consideration is another story. I feel any list not running Cruise is running Lavamancer. He is the solution to sustainability without Cruise. If Cruise is gone, Delver is gone. That means a switch away from red hate and less lightning bolt (hopefully.) I feel like Pod will be the next boogie man and so we will be able to experiment with more cards that can't be immediately bolted down. Additionally, there is the issue I've always had in mind of Helix vs Shard Volley vs Flames of the Bloodhand. Do we want reach or speed? Is a 3cmc worth the lifegain hate and extra damage? Are life totals enough of an issue to run Helix? Should we even go as far as to switch to a more "Big Boros" build, similar to Skred?
These are things we need to settle if we plan on bringing this deck back to its glory.
I want to start experimenting with a "Big Boros"/Skred type build:
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Fanatic of Mogis
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Volcanic Fallout
3 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
2 Chandra Pyromaster/Ajani Vengeant
Lands: 23
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Clifftop Retreat
Fetch's don't deck thin. http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=3096
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
I used to play mardu. I loved it,but again, it faced the same inconsistencies stated prior. I can't think of anything I want to run beyond Treasure Cruise. Give me a write up of your deck?
Edit: oddly enough, I seemed to have the same success with my Mardu build.
Has anyone else tried a singleton Geist in the MB? There are a few more results with him in the SB and I want to see his viability as a deck option.
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Steam Vents
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Sulfur Falls
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Rift Bolt
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Skullcrack
4x Boros Charm
3x Lightning Helix
3x Searing Blaze
3x Treasure Cruise
3x Dragon's Claw
3x Torpor Orb
3x Volcanic Fallout
3x Wear//Tear
2x Molten Rain
1x Shard Volley
That Shard Volley should have been a Geist and writting it as such, because a friend was lending it but forgot it and I had already given in my registry sheet, got me a game loss on match 2.
R1 vs RUG Delver 2-0
Easy wins by just counting to 21.
R2 vs Orzhov Midrange 1-2
Game loss, I won g2 with a surge of bolts off of Treasure Cruise, he won g3 by playing Kor Firewalker turns 3, 4 and 5!
R3 vs GBw 2-0
Won easy by hunting the damned Rhino with Skullcrack, otherwise I would have lost, that thing is too savage against us.
R4 vs UR Twin 1-2
There had been no twin at the LGS for over 4 months, I dropped the Combusts, never drew my Wear//Tear and both times he won out of Exarch so hunting the combo starter with bolt was not even an option. Adding insult to injury, g3 my natural hand was Mountain-Mountain-Mountain-Steam Vents-3x Treasure Cruise, absolutely horrid.
R5 vs Jund 2-0
Hunting the Ooze won me both games, Liliana contributed a lot to fueling three Treasure Cruise, 2 g1 and 1 g2.
Top 8 QF vs Abzan Midrange 2-1
He won g2 as I didn´t draw a single spell other than the 3 bolts already in my natural hand despite pulling over 10 lands out of the deck with draws and fetchlands. The other two were normal count to 21 matches helped a lot by a greedy mana-base and a blanking Thoughtseize.
Top 8 SF vs Pod 1-2
Both games went down to him having more power in the table than I could deal damage despite my orbs neutering his triggers. Chalice at 1, removal, powerful threats, this deck has it all. I think if both players are playing at their best, the die roll decides who wins, games are always that close.
I wish I had Rakdos Charm in my match against Twin, but to tell the truth I do believe Boros splash U is the best configuration right now as Treasure Cruise is dumb strong. I also really liked the checklands in here. They never interfered with casting Cruise but did save me a lot of pain against Delver, Jund and Junk, pain that could have made me misplay in fear of huge ass Tarmos coming my way into slow-playing and losing. Give them a test run and tell me how you feel.
I guess my biggest question about your struggles against creature decks is why you don't max out on Searing Blaze/Bloods in your 75. Have you not found those cards to be effective enough? I realize Blood isn't the best against Merfolk and Zoo, but against Pod and Affinity (and Delver, the mirror, etc), they both seem great.
After maxing out on those, and still finding that your creatures aren't getting through, I can understand being frustrated. But I still think unless you don't expect to see stuff like Storm, Ascendancy, Scapeshift, Tron, Twin, Control, etc. at all, than you really want the 8 hasty creatures.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
You should probably keep the banned discussion in the banned thread. FWIW, he seems a little slow for this deck, and a little more mid-range. Don't get me wrong. BBE is a great card, but he didn't see much play in this deck when he was legal. There was a RG Aggro deck prior to his banning that was seeing some fringe play.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
I like the idea of Dark Confidant that was suggested earlier. Anyone else test out a build using him?
I've been playing around with a 4c version lately. The biggest issue I have with this is that you have to flood out to get all of your mana fixing, which is a bad position for this deck to be in. Often times I am stuck trying to decide fetching for shock a, or shock b, and end up with cards I can't cast in my hand. I'm going to go back to the Jeskai build, and if Treasure Cruise gets the ban I will switch back to Mardu.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
4 Bloodstained Mire
12 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Skullcrack
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Searing Blaze
4 Lava Spike
2 Shard Volley
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
2 Searing Blaze
2 Runeflare Trap
2 Peak Eruption
4 Dragon's Claw
2 Volcanic Fallout
3 Smash to Smithereens
Im considering taking out fetches due to Leonin Arbiter plus increase in facing the mirror. Thoughts? Also marauders is for chumping goyfs. Which is in half the decks at my store, would not bring this list to a GP or PT but great for my stores meta. EDIT: I have peak eruption over molten rain since the only deck I bring it in for is twin, u/w/r and ascendancy and delver. no tron and maybe will add rain for pod but 1 damage is alot for only one deck, works for affinity but the only guy who plays it only comes like once every 3 weeks.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells x29
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
3 Treasure Cruise
3 Searing Blaze
1 Shard Volley
2 Lightning Helix
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Mountain
SideDeck x15
2 Ensaring Bridge
2 Wear//Tear
2 Molten Rain
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Lightning Helix
2 Combust
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Searing Blaze
2 Deflecting Palm
had 40 people we did 6 rounds Half of tournament was Pod lol, rest were mixed, faced pod,burn,delver,pod,pod,jeskai accendency, lost to last one unearthed turn 4 killed me lolz.
but Ensaring Bridge helped alot against pod rhino couldnt attack and i kept a small hand and burnt him out.
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG