The damage from shocklands is negligible when giving oneself access to the sideboarding options white provides. The only advantage I could forsee in mono red is running Blood Moon with impunity. Otherwise, there is no way I would give up Lightning Helix or Wear/Tear in this meta.
I have to admit, though, 3 colors is rather rough on the manabase. I often find myself paying 3 life (fetchland + shock land) just to play a Bump in the Night or Lightning Helix.
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
You can also play 4 Skullcracks and 4 Flames of the Bloodhand, which is a total of 8 anti-life gain cards main board. Added with Leyline of Punishment in the side, the oppponent would never be given the opportunity to gain life.
Destructive Revelry is great, but it defeats the purpose of saving yourself the extra damage from shocklands. Fetchlands are always useful. I would run as many as 12 in a mono red build to filter out land draws.
Blood Moon is such a relevant card in nearly every meta game. That is the only reason I would run mono red.
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
You can also play 4 Skullcracks and 4 Flames of the Bloodhand, which is a total of 8 anti-life gain cards main board. Added with Leyline of Punishment in the side, the oppponent would never be given the opportunity to gain life.
Destructive Revelry is great, but it defeats the purpose of saving yourself the extra damage from shocklands. Fetchlands are always useful. I would run as many as 12 in a mono red build to filter out land draws.
Blood Moon is such a relevant card in nearly every meta game. That is the only reason I would run mono red.
Why does it defeat the purpose? you run a single shock in the side or main.
12 fetches seems like a lot; statistically if you draw 3 fetches it reduces the chance that your next draw is a land by roughly 1/10th. It's not trivial but not game breaking either.
The straight fact is that mono red has no way to deal with leyline. You HAVE to have an answer to it or we lose. So there needs to be 1 shock somewhere in the 75 to make it possible to destroy leyline g2 and 3. Plain and simple. If they ever prong a red card that can handle leyline, I'd probably switch to mono red. Highly doubt they will out side of something the costs to much for us to play or is too difficult to cast/ has a drawback for us. anarchy I believe is the closest mono red will get to being able to deal with leyline and it's too expensive rly. Even if it got reprinted for modern, most likely not, it's 4 mana. I can't see us playing it unless we run 20+ lands.
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
You can also play 4 Skullcracks and 4 Flames of the Bloodhand, which is a total of 8 anti-life gain cards main board. Added with Leyline of Punishment in the side, the oppponent would never be given the opportunity to gain life.
Destructive Revelry is great, but it defeats the purpose of saving yourself the extra damage from shocklands. Fetchlands are always useful. I would run as many as 12 in a mono red build to filter out land draws.
Blood Moon is such a relevant card in nearly every meta game. That is the only reason I would run mono red.
Why does it defeat the purpose? you run a single shock in the side or main.
12 fetches seems like a lot; statistically if you draw 3 fetches it reduces the chance that your next draw is a land by roughly 1/10th. It's not trivial but not game breaking either.
It defeats the purpose because Stomping Ground is a shock land.
If you are so convinced mono red is superior, go ahead and play mono red. That is your choice and personal preference as a player (as mine drives me to make a Mardu build.)
Despite this, facts will only show that a white splash, or splash of any kind beyond red, is more likely to win a tournament. There are very few, if any, mono red builds I have seen top 8 compared to splashed colors.
Edit: Obviously the shock lands don't make a huge impact with Lightning Helix in the mix. Here is a RDW list that placed first http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/106406
From what you can see, he/she sides Kor Firewalker. This card would require, at minimum, 4 damage with two sacred foundries to play. Yet, despite this, the deck was able to drive itself up to 1st place. I don't know why people fight pure speculative theory with empirical evidence. White is a superior color and the shocklands don't seem to be posing any problem.
Is set in stone, this configuration saves me from most trouble but there's three kind of trouble that has me split:
3x Rain of Gore Because Pod with finks was fair, but Pod with finks and rhino isn't so much anymore.
3x Volcanic Fallout Because Delver is dumb popular and it just can't survive it.
3x Torpor Orb Because it's our best bet against Twin, and it also messes with Pod a little bit.
After getting stomped by Leyline of Sanctity last week, I am going to splash White on my R/B burn. I need to hate it out harshly. Wear // Tear and Ronom Unicorn are looking very sexy.
After getting stomped by Leyline of Sanctity last week, I am going to splash White on my R/B burn. I need to hate it out harshly. Wear // Tear and Ronom Unicorn are looking very sexy.
I'd still go green over white if all you're using the splash for is to deal with leyline. Revelry gives 2 dmg as well as taking out leyline. It keeps us counting to 20.
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
You can also play 4 Skullcracks and 4 Flames of the Bloodhand, which is a total of 8 anti-life gain cards main board. Added with Leyline of Punishment in the side, the oppponent would never be given the opportunity to gain life.
Destructive Revelry is great, but it defeats the purpose of saving yourself the extra damage from shocklands. Fetchlands are always useful. I would run as many as 12 in a mono red build to filter out land draws.
Blood Moon is such a relevant card in nearly every meta game. That is the only reason I would run mono red.
Why does it defeat the purpose? you run a single shock in the side or main.
12 fetches seems like a lot; statistically if you draw 3 fetches it reduces the chance that your next draw is a land by roughly 1/10th. It's not trivial but not game breaking either.
It defeats the purpose because Stomping Ground is a shock land.
If you are so convinced mono red is superior, go ahead and play mono red. That is your choice and personal preference as a player (as mine drives me to make a Mardu build.)
Despite this, facts will only show that a white splash, or splash of any kind beyond red, is more likely to win a tournament. There are very few, if any, mono red builds I have seen top 8 compared to splashed colors.
Edit: Obviously the shock lands don't make a huge impact with Lightning Helix in the mix. Here is a RDW list that placed first http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/106406
From what you can see, he/she sides Kor Firewalker. This card would require, at minimum, 4 damage with two sacred foundries to play. Yet, despite this, the deck was able to drive itself up to 1st place. I don't know why people fight pure speculative theory with empirical evidence. White is a superior color and the shocklands don't seem to be posing any problem.
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
You can also play 4 Skullcracks and 4 Flames of the Bloodhand, which is a total of 8 anti-life gain cards main board. Added with Leyline of Punishment in the side, the oppponent would never be given the opportunity to gain life.
Destructive Revelry is great, but it defeats the purpose of saving yourself the extra damage from shocklands. Fetchlands are always useful. I would run as many as 12 in a mono red build to filter out land draws.
Blood Moon is such a relevant card in nearly every meta game. That is the only reason I would run mono red.
Why does it defeat the purpose? you run a single shock in the side or main.
12 fetches seems like a lot; statistically if you draw 3 fetches it reduces the chance that your next draw is a land by roughly 1/10th. It's not trivial but not game breaking either.
It defeats the purpose because Stomping Ground is a shock land.
If you are so convinced mono red is superior, go ahead and play mono red. That is your choice and personal preference as a player (as mine drives me to make a Mardu build.)
Despite this, facts will only show that a white splash, or splash of any kind beyond red, is more likely to win a tournament. There are very few, if any, mono red builds I have seen top 8 compared to splashed colors.
Edit: Obviously the shock lands don't make a huge impact with Lightning Helix in the mix. Here is a RDW list that placed first http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/106406
From what you can see, he/she sides Kor Firewalker. This card would require, at minimum, 4 damage with two sacred foundries to play. Yet, despite this, the deck was able to drive itself up to 1st place. I don't know why people fight pure speculative theory with empirical evidence. White is a superior color and the shocklands don't seem to be posing any problem.
You may be right, but I wouldn't use tournament results as your sole judge of deck quality; the problem is that the empirical evidence is flawed. If 80% of the burn players at the tournament are showing up with jeskai/mardu, and 20% show up with mono red, pure chance imposes that the jeskai/mardu will most likely end up in the top 8. To evaluate tournaments statistically you need to know what people showed up with. However, I do agree it's likely leyline that is making the difference in this case rather than number of players on either side.
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
You can also play 4 Skullcracks and 4 Flames of the Bloodhand, which is a total of 8 anti-life gain cards main board. Added with Leyline of Punishment in the side, the oppponent would never be given the opportunity to gain life.
Destructive Revelry is great, but it defeats the purpose of saving yourself the extra damage from shocklands. Fetchlands are always useful. I would run as many as 12 in a mono red build to filter out land draws.
Blood Moon is such a relevant card in nearly every meta game. That is the only reason I would run mono red.
Why does it defeat the purpose? you run a single shock in the side or main.
12 fetches seems like a lot; statistically if you draw 3 fetches it reduces the chance that your next draw is a land by roughly 1/10th. It's not trivial but not game breaking either.
It defeats the purpose because Stomping Ground is a shock land.
If you are so convinced mono red is superior, go ahead and play mono red. That is your choice and personal preference as a player (as mine drives me to make a Mardu build.)
Despite this, facts will only show that a white splash, or splash of any kind beyond red, is more likely to win a tournament. There are very few, if any, mono red builds I have seen top 8 compared to splashed colors.
Edit: Obviously the shock lands don't make a huge impact with Lightning Helix in the mix. Here is a RDW list that placed first http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/106406
From what you can see, he/she sides Kor Firewalker. This card would require, at minimum, 4 damage with two sacred foundries to play. Yet, despite this, the deck was able to drive itself up to 1st place. I don't know why people fight pure speculative theory with empirical evidence. White is a superior color and the shocklands don't seem to be posing any problem.
I agree with you, but your logic is horrible. This place doesn't prove white is superior; it doesn't prove that shocklands are irrelevant; it doesn't prove the Kor Firewalker is any good. You don't know what match-ups he faced to even know if that was relevant at all.
I am 100% certain that if I were playing on MODO or in any real Modern tournament (meta = 16% delver, 11% burn, 9% affinity, 9% birthing pod, 6% twin, 5% scapeshift), that I'd rather be in mono red than Rx.
- The delver match-up is laughable in any color combination, so no need to add a color there
- R > Rx in the mirror unless the opponent's on 4x Leyline which is brutal, but I wouldn't bring enchantment removal g2 blind in the mirror anyway.
- Affinity is also laughable, and the only good sideboard tech would be ancient grudge for 2-for-1 or Kataki, but 4 blood, 4 blaze, X smash to smithereens already wrecks.
- I'm not so sure I want artifact removal against pod either; the best ways to beat them are searing effects and land destruction, and anger the gods, so there's that?
- Twin can definitely be helped by 4 Rakdos Charm or 4 Revelry, but postboard they play more controlling and those spells could just get countered, or they can tap our single colored source, so Combust or land destruction suffices.
- Scapeshift is fine and no sideboard color helps. W for Boros Charm can expedite the game, but other then that?
Yes, Leyline is scary, but the only deck here that runs them AFAIK is weird burn kids and then a bunch of fringe (<5%) decks, so IDGAF.
Is set in stone, this configuration saves me from most trouble but there's three kind of trouble that has me split:
3x Rain of Gore Because Pod with finks was fair, but Pod with finks and rhino isn't so much anymore.
3x Volcanic Fallout Because Delver is dumb popular and it just can't survive it.
3x Torpor Orb Because it's our best bet against Twin, and it also messes with Pod a little bit.
Which one would you use?
Torpor Orb since it deals with two match-ups and Delver's a bye.
After getting stomped by Leyline of Sanctity last week, I am going to splash White on my R/B burn. I need to hate it out harshly. Wear // Tear and Ronom Unicorn are looking very sexy.
Exactly... 90% of the time you pay three life for helix and it becomes essentially a searing spear. Most of what you get from the splash is an answer for leyline; for all other cards there are nearly as good side board options in mono red. I'm thinking of trying mono red with fetches main and a stomping ground plus revelries in the side. Mono red is just so good against other burn decks and delver.
Your only advantage to playing mono red is not paying life for fetch and shock lands. That's it. And that only matters against other aggressive decks, which is less than 25% of the field (according to the Day 2 of GP Madrid). Against every other deck you have a better match up because you can deal more damage quicker by running cards like Bump in the Night and Boros Charm. You also have a much more flexible sideboard, with cards like Wear // Tear or Destructive Revelry. Hell, I've started running Engineered Explosives to deal with opposing Dragon's Claw and Spellskite.
You are literally making your match ups worse against 75% of the field, so you can have a better match up against 25% of the field. And you can bring in sideboard cards to up your win percentage after game 1 anyway. Just do yourself a favor and play RWx.
Is set in stone, this configuration saves me from most trouble but there's three kind of trouble that has me split:
3x Rain of Gore Because Pod with finks was fair, but Pod with finks and rhino isn't so much anymore.
3x Volcanic Fallout Because Delver is dumb popular and it just can't survive it.
3x Torpor Orb Because it's our best bet against Twin, and it also messes with Pod a little bit.
Which one would you use?
Unless you run into a lot of Jeskai Control or Soul Sisters, I would say you don't need Rain of Gore. Torpor Orb is mostly good against Pod/Twin, but I feel we should be able to out race them most of the time. I'm going to go with Fallout, because it absolutely ruins Delver, which happens to be the most popular deck at the moment.
Your life total matters in about 45% of the meta... And extra colors don't necessarily fix the rest. And Torpor Orb helps against 15% of the field, all of which are close match-ups. Delver's a bye, so you don't need SB cards dedicated to them. I guess fallout's also okay against pod's dork dork dude draws, but meh.
Torpor orb overlaps with rakdos charm against twin. RBx burn doesn't have much trouble with twin post SB I feel, especially if you are also packing any number of destructive revelry or wear/tear in the board. Torpor orb is bad on its own in burn, I'd suggest leaving it out. Rain of gore makes a good 1-of against soul sisters or some forms of control/ midrange.
Volcanic fallout is good against delver but you probably won't want 3. I'd go 1x rain of gore and 2x fallout. A more controlling meta might call for 2x molten rain over the fallout.
I've personally found 4 rakdos charm to be overkill, with 3 being the number I'm packing.
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I have to admit, though, 3 colors is rather rough on the manabase. I often find myself paying 3 life (fetchland + shock land) just to play a Bump in the Night or Lightning Helix.
Legacy: Maverick
You can also play 4 Skullcracks and 4 Flames of the Bloodhand, which is a total of 8 anti-life gain cards main board. Added with Leyline of Punishment in the side, the oppponent would never be given the opportunity to gain life.
Destructive Revelry is great, but it defeats the purpose of saving yourself the extra damage from shocklands. Fetchlands are always useful. I would run as many as 12 in a mono red build to filter out land draws.
Blood Moon is such a relevant card in nearly every meta game. That is the only reason I would run mono red.
Interesting to see another deck trying Hellspark
Why does it defeat the purpose? you run a single shock in the side or main.
12 fetches seems like a lot; statistically if you draw 3 fetches it reduces the chance that your next draw is a land by roughly 1/10th. It's not trivial but not game breaking either.
Legacy: Maverick
It defeats the purpose because Stomping Ground is a shock land.
If you are so convinced mono red is superior, go ahead and play mono red. That is your choice and personal preference as a player (as mine drives me to make a Mardu build.)
Despite this, facts will only show that a white splash, or splash of any kind beyond red, is more likely to win a tournament. There are very few, if any, mono red builds I have seen top 8 compared to splashed colors.
Edit: Obviously the shock lands don't make a huge impact with Lightning Helix in the mix. Here is a RDW list that placed first http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/106406
From what you can see, he/she sides Kor Firewalker. This card would require, at minimum, 4 damage with two sacred foundries to play. Yet, despite this, the deck was able to drive itself up to 1st place. I don't know why people fight pure speculative theory with empirical evidence. White is a superior color and the shocklands don't seem to be posing any problem.
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
3x Dragon's Claw
3x Destructive Revelry
2x Lightning Helix
Is set in stone, this configuration saves me from most trouble but there's three kind of trouble that has me split:
3x Rain of Gore Because Pod with finks was fair, but Pod with finks and rhino isn't so much anymore.
3x Volcanic Fallout Because Delver is dumb popular and it just can't survive it.
3x Torpor Orb Because it's our best bet against Twin, and it also messes with Pod a little bit.
Which one would you use?
The core is always the same. I feel the linchpins in the deck are;
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
From here the deck can go any direction to slpash colours.
Fetchlands should always be 8-10 to activate Searing Blaze or other great staples Grim Lavamancer, Treasure Cruise.
After getting stomped by Leyline of Sanctity last week, I am going to splash White on my R/B burn. I need to hate it out harshly. Wear // Tear and Ronom Unicorn are looking very sexy.
I'd still go green over white if all you're using the splash for is to deal with leyline. Revelry gives 2 dmg as well as taking out leyline. It keeps us counting to 20.
You may be right, but I wouldn't use tournament results as your sole judge of deck quality; the problem is that the empirical evidence is flawed. If 80% of the burn players at the tournament are showing up with jeskai/mardu, and 20% show up with mono red, pure chance imposes that the jeskai/mardu will most likely end up in the top 8. To evaluate tournaments statistically you need to know what people showed up with. However, I do agree it's likely leyline that is making the difference in this case rather than number of players on either side.
Legacy: Maverick
I agree with you, but your logic is horrible. This place doesn't prove white is superior; it doesn't prove that shocklands are irrelevant; it doesn't prove the Kor Firewalker is any good. You don't know what match-ups he faced to even know if that was relevant at all.
I am 100% certain that if I were playing on MODO or in any real Modern tournament (meta = 16% delver, 11% burn, 9% affinity, 9% birthing pod, 6% twin, 5% scapeshift), that I'd rather be in mono red than Rx.
- The delver match-up is laughable in any color combination, so no need to add a color there
- R > Rx in the mirror unless the opponent's on 4x Leyline which is brutal, but I wouldn't bring enchantment removal g2 blind in the mirror anyway.
- Affinity is also laughable, and the only good sideboard tech would be ancient grudge for 2-for-1 or Kataki, but 4 blood, 4 blaze, X smash to smithereens already wrecks.
- I'm not so sure I want artifact removal against pod either; the best ways to beat them are searing effects and land destruction, and anger the gods, so there's that?
- Twin can definitely be helped by 4 Rakdos Charm or 4 Revelry, but postboard they play more controlling and those spells could just get countered, or they can tap our single colored source, so Combust or land destruction suffices.
- Scapeshift is fine and no sideboard color helps. W for Boros Charm can expedite the game, but other then that?
Yes, Leyline is scary, but the only deck here that runs them AFAIK is weird burn kids and then a bunch of fringe (<5%) decks, so IDGAF.
Torpor Orb since it deals with two match-ups and Delver's a bye.
Random Unicorn >
Your only advantage to playing mono red is not paying life for fetch and shock lands. That's it. And that only matters against other aggressive decks, which is less than 25% of the field (according to the Day 2 of GP Madrid). Against every other deck you have a better match up because you can deal more damage quicker by running cards like Bump in the Night and Boros Charm. You also have a much more flexible sideboard, with cards like Wear // Tear or Destructive Revelry. Hell, I've started running Engineered Explosives to deal with opposing Dragon's Claw and Spellskite.
You are literally making your match ups worse against 75% of the field, so you can have a better match up against 25% of the field. And you can bring in sideboard cards to up your win percentage after game 1 anyway. Just do yourself a favor and play RWx.
Unless you run into a lot of Jeskai Control or Soul Sisters, I would say you don't need Rain of Gore. Torpor Orb is mostly good against Pod/Twin, but I feel we should be able to out race them most of the time. I'm going to go with Fallout, because it absolutely ruins Delver, which happens to be the most popular deck at the moment.
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Volcanic fallout is good against delver but you probably won't want 3. I'd go 1x rain of gore and 2x fallout. A more controlling meta might call for 2x molten rain over the fallout.
I've personally found 4 rakdos charm to be overkill, with 3 being the number I'm packing.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG