Thank you to everyone who replied to my questions. Here's where I'm at with my deck going into tournaments Friday, Saturday and Sunday ... I would welcome critiques to the mana base and sideboard.
With regards to mana, I have considered cutting a blood crypt and adding a raging ravine. I last cut a forest for the second blood crypt.
With regards to sideboard, I think shatterstorm is the silliest card in there ... has anyone felt like beating affinity is an issue without it? Perhaps it should be a chandra, combust, or bow of nylea. The other cards all seem useful in their respective matchups... are there cards you guys think are unecessary that I could swap for something more useful?
Also, do we have any hope in hell of beating burn? My only idea was finks in the main but that seems extreme... and I am not sure what I would cut.
Standard : BR Zombies Modern :
- Playing : Burn | Living End | Bant Eldrazi
- In Queue : ???
- Building : Death's Shadow |
- Sidelined : RUG Scapeshift | Lantern Control | GR Tron | Ad Nauseam | UWR Control | Dredge | Eldrazi Tron | UB Whir Tezzerator
RE: Combust: I do like this card, and in a meta saturated with UWR and Twin decks (like 50% or so) I could see wanting to run one copy in the board, but it's just not flexible enough for me to justify choosing it over something like Slaughter Pact. I still can't seem squeeze in the 2nd copy of Slaughter Pact, and I think that card is just as good against U/R decks, while providing more removal against other decks like Affinity and Pod. Scavenging Ooze is the other card that would fight for Combust in my board, and I think it's just as good in the same matchups, while having other applications as well. In short, Combust is a bit too narrow to justify the slight upgrade over other options in my opinion.
RE: Shocklands: I've always liked having 5 shocks in the manabase (typically 2 Tomb, 2 Crypt, 1 Ground), but lately I've cut down to 4 to fit in the filter lands and all 4 Ravines. I hate running out of targets for fetchlands, and it does come up pretty often. I'm also currently running the 4 basics, mostly because of getting Pathed with no basic to find too many times, but also for the usual reasons. Once I get my first copy of Grove it will probably replace the 2nd Forest. Point is though, how you tune your mana base is up to you, and it's always a work in progress. Tuning just means you're paying attention to the deck as your meta and preferences change.
RE: The BURN matchup: This matchup will never be great, but I don't think it's an auto-lose either. For those decks that are running pure burn (i.e. 8 creatures MAX) we have some serious problems, but even there we can win with a Courser + Disruption hand and some luck. Remember that many Burn players are not going to play optimally due to the nature of Red Decks as a casual and cheap option in the format. On top of that, they are relatively weak to mulliganing, and we still have enough disruption to punish them. Here is my quick guide to beating burn:
1) Keep in all or most of your discard. Inquisition is absolutely stellar against them (so maybe run 4 if you're really worried about this matchup), and Thoughtseize is often "Gain 1-2 life". It can be risky to cast a TS when their hand is low, so don't use it past turn 2-3 unless you are sure it will hit something worth more than 2 life, but the point is it still can help "gain" you life in the early turns.
2) Fetch carefully, and don't rush on any plays other than those that actively stop damage (such as Terminate on Goblin Guide or whatever). You can save a lot of life by fetching tapped lands and basics whenever possible.
3) Mulligan to find a life-gainer if the first hand isn't exciting. Courser or Ooze can really make the difference in stabilizing, and not much else matters in our deck. Similarly, a 5 card hand with IoK, Bolt, Goyf is much better than many 7 card hands. Racing is as important as lifegain.
4) Graveyard hate doesn't hurt. Rakdos Charm is probably bad unless you see a Shrine or similar artifact threat, but Jund Charm is very flexible and helps fight their creatures as well as any flashback, unearth, or lavamancer food in the yard. For this reason and the more obvious ones, Scavenging Ooze is probably the best card in the matchup. Play 4, since it's good against UWR and Pod as well.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
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EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Why not Slaughter Pact though? Dismember seems a bit painful in combination with our usual struggle against killing ourselves via damage. Pact is just as cheap in a pinch, and still kills stuff like Wurmcoils and very large Oozes and Goyfs. It might miss out on a few black targets like Bob and Vault Skirge, but we have Bolt for those guys.
I do like Dismember too, but I think Slaughter Pact is quite a bit better for us in the current meta, especially considering how much we want these effects against Affinity and Aggro, which are the very decks that punish us for taking damage from our own cards.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Here's the list that I ran at a local and plan to run again. It's a pretty 'stock' list but I really love the main; the only exception is that I need to find a Grove to replace the Copperline Gorge.
I ended up beating UWR (creature light), RG Tron, BW Tokens and Jund. The list I have is like 95% of where I want it to be. I really want to fit in Engineered Explosives x2 in the board, but I'm really unsure of what to cut for it. Perhaps it's just not for my meta which is mostly towards grindy/control decks with less aggro and less combo. I don't actually hate Bow of Nylea. It feels ok versus the grindy decks. I really hate playing Grafdigger's Cage but it just feels too good to cut. I don't miss having a second Chandra in the main or board. The card is amazing in half the matchups and awful in the others. Sowing Salt is ok I guess; when you side it in and draw it, it's absolutely the nuts. The problem is that it feels almost like a win more card. I'm a bit unsure if the 4th Liliana in the board is necessary as well as the odds of drawing 1 between 3 and 4 in the deck are surprisingly negligible. I haven't missed Jund Charm at all. It's a good card, but there have been so many times when it's just so irrelevant. I'm tempted to try out a Pain Seer instead of a Courser or two as Confidant 5-6 but I'm not sure a "fixed" confidant it's worth it. As for Prophetic Flamespeaker, I just really don't think Jund is the right deck for the card. In a pod-less or pod-light environment, it's probably fine as a 3 of with Jund Charm replacing the Angers. I'm just not really buying that the clock he provides is worth more than Ooze or Liliana or anything similar. He's also exceptionally easy to remove for numerous decks. I love Combust, but against UWR it feels like a card that will come too late to matter and potentially affects U and U/x decks (e.g. Twin/Merfolk/Delver). It's significantly worse versus Tarmotwin imo.
Round 1. Game 1 versus UWR I kept a hand of Thoughtseize, Abrupt Decay x2, Fetch x2, Blackcleave Cliffs and Raging Ravine; it's a tough call to keep against an unknown deck. It has not gas but is going to likely do reasonably versus the field I think. It's far from ideal but I'm not sure a random 6 is better. Thoughts on that? Regardless, I ended the game with 11 land in play and drew a total of 3 spells the whole game (Goyf, Lilliana, Confidant and Courser) and lost to manlands. It was pretty awful because I kept on drawing land after land. Game 2 he mulled and I went Inquisition into Confidant into Liliana into Thrun. Game 3 was really close; he mulled to 6 and I kept a rough land hand (double Raging Ravine). Inquisition into Raging Ravine into Fulminator (Remand) into Fulminator (Remand) into Fulminator (Cryptic) into Fulminator (Path but hitting his Hallowed Fountain). Near the end I'm in an interesting postion. I'm at 5 with Confidant and Thrun while he is at 4 and can swing with a manland (he has 2 and 7 lands in play). I can Liliana Confidant off after the swing but that gives him 2+ turns of blocking at minimum if he decided to force regeneration to find Bolt+Snapcaster, Cliquie to chump or similar. He wins if I hit a non-land/non-pact off Confidant if he swings and I don't have Pact/Dismember for his land. He ends up going for it. Better play for him is to chump 1 round then go for it if I don't edict myself, but eh. He went with the swing for 4 and I Confidanted a land to stay alive. Sideboard plan: -4 Bolt, -2 Anger, -3 Abrupt Decay, +3 Fulminator, +1 Sowing Salt, +2 Thrun, +1 Batterskull, +1 LotV, +1 Thoughtseize
Round 2. Game 1 He mulled to 6. I inquisition seeing a second tron piece (he played 1 and a sphere) and a Karn. Turn 2 I thoughtseize the Karn. I get Liliana online turn 3 then start playing other threads. I get to ultimate Lilly to force him to choose 3 Mines or 1 Tower and 1 Powerplant and it's gg as no 3 cards in a row can win the game before he's dead. Game 2 was pretty sick. He Stirrings for a tron piece after playing a forest. I Thoughtseize into Confidant Fulminator hitting his Tower to prevent him from having 8 mana the following turn. He plays Powerplant on turn 4 and has tron in hand and an extra mine but on my turn 4 I Sowing Salt his Mine keeping him off tron and he scoops as I'm going to be able to keep up minor pressure and he won't be able to live to 6 mana. Sideboard plan -4 Bolt, -2 Anger, -1 Abrupt Decay, +3 Fulminator Mage, +1 Sowing Salt, +1 LotV
Round 3. Game 1 I mull to 6 into a similar 1 lander with a card down. He Inquisitions grabbing my Thoughseize. I just play Raging Ravine. He plays Honor of the Pure and I play Confidant ripping a land like a pro. He plays Lingering Souls then flashes it back the following turn after I play Courser. I swing then Anger. Eventually I'm able to Anger again to kill a half of a second Lingering Souls while Abrupt Decaying the Honor. He's able to Spectral Procession but I just Maelstrom Pulse the tokens. Eventually Liliana and Courser just provide enough card advantage to win. Game 2 I he Inquisitions my Anger and I Raging Ravine. He passes while I play Confidant. He Lingering Souls and I LotV to both discard. He fires at me and flashes back. I swing then Chandra. He plays Hero. I proceed remove Hero and cut him down to 1 token flyer. He Spectrals and I Anger to clear the board. Chandra and Liliana take over at that point and I just win. Sideboard plan: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Bolt -1 Dismember, +1 Anger, +1 Bow of Nylea, +1 Golgari Charm, +1 Batterskull, +1 LotV.
Game 4. Game 1 he mulls to 6 and inquisitions grabbing my Liliana (showing jund). I inquisition back seeing Goyf x2, Lilliana, thoughtseize and land. I'm in a really bad position because I'm down 2 goyfs to 1 (Ooze, Confidant, Goyf, Abrupt Decay, Land x2) and if Liliana hits he's way up on tempo. I grab Thoughtseize because if I can deal with his goyfs I might be able to beat past Liliana. He plays goyf and I play Confidant which he topdecks bolt for. I play Ooze removing my confidant and he plays a second goyf. I dismember and Abrupt decay in the same turn to wipe his board but fall to 3 in the process; my plan is to lose to Bolt if he has it or gain 2 with Ooze and swing back with a 5/5 ooze. He ends up LotV my Ooze but I follow up with Courser to continue to put myself out of range and removing his LotV. I win; I think I win handily on the play. This game really showed why I like Dismember as a "fifth bolt" and "third pact." The card just gives many options to help stabilize versus really aggressive draws. Game 2 was pretty interesting. He inquisitions Confidant where I decay his Confidant. He plays Lily and I rip and play a second Confidant. He edicts and passes the turn. I play Courser. He plays Goyf. I pact Goyf and kill Lily and play a lily of my own. He's stuck on 3 lands and can't play Thrun/Batterskull/etc. whereas I have Courser to help me draw more cards and an active Lily to force the win. Sideboard plan -3 Thoughsieze, -2 Anger, +1 LotV, +1 Batterskull, +1 Bow of Nylea, +2 Thrun.
@Homeland @ Pact #2 vs Dismember: I personally like a 1/1 split as sometimes the tempo loss of having to pay 3 during your upkeep often sets you back a whole turn (esp. early game but also late game -- can't attack with ravine?). Likewise, while rare in occurrence, having pact as your only removal early game and/or in mana screwed games kinda sucks.
Dismember kills everything I want Pact to kill: Angels + Colonnade (am i missing anything?). For the rest of the stuff mentioned, we have the Decays and Terminates. Wurmcoil is a legit concern, but I've pretty much come to terms that Tron just isn't worth all the extra heartache anyway
There's no denying that Slaughter pact is awesome at what it does. I personally just don't like multiples of it.
@Agnos:
My list looks very similar to yours (as does all other jund players lol). Few questions/thoughts:
1. Do you miss terminate at all? My main deck removal suite is 3x Decay 1x Slaughter Pact 1x Terminate 1xDismember.
2. What match-up does Bow really shine in? I've tried it a few times but haven't quite yet figured it out where it really shines.
3. I've the same feelings about Sowing Salt. Similar to Shatterstorm, it feels like an auto-win against Tron and Scapeshift. The other match-ups that I would bring it in is any deck playing Colonnade, maybe Affinity, and maybe Jund for Ravine? Not sure if it's more of a win more against those other decks though.
4. I'm noticing more and more lists excluding Ancient Grudge/Shatterstorm, including yours How's the match-up feel w/o them? Is all the other removal already enough?
5. Pain Seer sounds kinda really bad lol. I rarely want to ever have 2 Bobs in at the same time anyway. Being said, don't wanna dog it b/c I haven't tried it, so let us know how it works out.
I haven't played Jund in months, but I'm looking to pick it back up for the Modern PTQ season after dabbling with Pod for a bit. I noticed that the manabase has changed. Are Grove/Thicket a nod to the loss of DRS + running Anger and Courser in the main now?
After being super annoyed at playing against Spellskite in the Twin match-up, I decided to give it a spin myself. So far, I'm really liking it as a 2x in the board and am considering just putting it in the main deck straight up. All of our creatures feel very fragile and so Spellskite has been acting as the ultimate shield. And also has the added benefit of making the Twin match-up that much better (which is rampant in my area).
@x_K
1. Honestly, I haven't missed Terminate in specific much at all. I'd feel differently if BG were a thing in my area. I have missed being able to bring in Pact x2 from the board so that post board there's the option of 4 instant speed targeted removal cards. This is kinda want the Engineered Explosives x2 option in the board.
2. The matchups where you really hope to draw it are like Affinity and Burn. Otherwise I usually bring it in versus the grindy creature matchups because your creatures always trade up (barring Abrupt Decay), it quickens your clock, can protect versus growing Goyfs/Oozes and can stall. I'm not 100% sold on it yet honestly. I just figured I'd give it a run for a while and figure out if I actually like it or not. Currently I like both the idea of it but it's a card that hasn't really come up.
3. I bring it in versus Colonnade as well but not most of the other manland decks. Because of Bow, I would much prefer Fulminators over Sowing Salt.
4. I've played 2 Grudges as well as 1 Grudge and 1 Rakdos Charm. I'm not a big fan of Shatterstorm. The thing about affinity is that it's a high variance deck. I don't think that for the majority of the time it's worth having a better sideboard card for one matchup (and often one very rough situation) in favor of a card that's more useful and a variety of matchups. If affinity were far more popular in my area, then I'd have more dedicated hate to it. For a broad field, I'd probably play 1 Grudge in the board or maybe just find room for those 2 Explosives I've been trying to fit in.
5. It was more a passing thought than something I'll actually try. I think I would pretty heavily prefer it versus the various UWx decks. That said, it's just an idea for when they actually ban Confidant if they ever do.
As far as spellskite goes, I wouldn't play it. If Twin was more popular in my area, I'd cut the Pulse for a Putrefy and find space a third Pact or similar.
@Xerlic. In short yes. The manabase pre-board and post-board is heavy on color requirements. So you need as many colored sources as possible.
One last thing. The people who are trying to make the 4 color lists work for Ajani and Lingering Souls; sorry, I don't see the manabase as being worth it. If I were to splash white, I would likely be playing 2-3 Glittering Wish in the main to be "pre-board" against a number of decks as there are numerous good options to pull with it (Ajani vs Control, Rakdos Charm versus graveyards, Fracturing Gust versus Affinity, Jund Charm/Firespout versus Creature decks, etc.).
Yea Spellskite is great in a couple very specific spots (vs twin and boggles) but is just too low impact in general to compare with the likes of bob/goyf/ooze. EE and Pact are just as effective while having applications elsewhere.
A 1/1 Dismember/pact split makes sense but I still just like 2 Terminates. Control and Twin are too popular and both of them can burn you out of the game with ease.
Hey guys, I just played a few games against Living End today and I have to say it feels nearly impossible to win... I understand we have three oozes, but they dont do much if they are getting Shrieked Maw'd away or Beast Within'd. Plus we might never see it. Do we basically concede this matchup and hope to dodge it? All I have for in the bored is a Jund Charm, and a Rakdos Charm, but again if I dont see them I lose pretty handily. What do you guys think?
Living End is kind of like Burn in that Jund is just at a structural disadvantage by the nature of the cards it plays. Scavenging Ooze works in theory, but is slow and can be played around. Even when Deathrite Shaman was in the format the matchup was bad. Targeted discard can take care of the cascade spells but a billion cyclers will quickly get to the next one.
Thankfully as long as decks that play Remand are popular (Twin, Scapeshift and sometimes UWR runs it), Living End will be a small enough percentage of the metagame that you can realistically just hope to not play against it in a major tournament.
First of all, we never concede a matchup. Living End might be a bad matchup but its still very winnable. Yet another reason to run the 4th Ooze in the board, as that card dominates them and just in time on curve. Charms are also obviously crucial if you expect the deck to exist beyond the fringes if your meta.
Don't play out more than 1-2 creatures until they cascade, especially Goyf. Mulligan to find Ooze or a charm. Force them to play awkwardly into your powerful spells. Save your hard removal and lili's for after the grave shift. Leave in all your discard on the play and probably always keep IoK in the deck. Sideboard into your own Fulminators. And lastly, mulligan into Scavenging Ooze. (4 copies ofc...)
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Rakdos Charm but yes. Also if you expect Living End and similar big aggro decks, Damnation is a great 1-of in the board.
If the deck is popular for you locally, adjust your SB accordingly. But at a big event I wouldn't expect to play against more than 1 LE opponent on average.
What can we do vs affinity? Shatterstorm come too late and dont hit manlands, Ancient Grudge is a bolt/destroy plating... fracturing gust? Instant speed sounds good but i think it sucks... Anger? Slow amd dont hit manlands and ravager... idk what should be the strategy
Anger-Jund Charm-Grudge-Rakdos Charm work for me. Going anger into Jund Charm clears mosty of their board and manlands.
Mulliganing to hate is important.
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Find something, Live For it, Fight for it, Die for it. Then it might get passed on the the next generation.
I just split the finals of a modern PE. It turns out my opponent was on jund with main deck trashmaster. I shouldn't have offered the split since I was on scapeshift. The jund list will get posted in ~24-48 hours.
With regards to mana, I have considered cutting a blood crypt and adding a raging ravine. I last cut a forest for the second blood crypt.
With regards to sideboard, I think shatterstorm is the silliest card in there ... has anyone felt like beating affinity is an issue without it? Perhaps it should be a chandra, combust, or bow of nylea. The other cards all seem useful in their respective matchups... are there cards you guys think are unecessary that I could swap for something more useful?
Also, do we have any hope in hell of beating burn? My only idea was finks in the main but that seems extreme... and I am not sure what I would cut.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Courser of Kruphix
Removal/Disruption
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Terminate
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtsieze
Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Chandra Pyromaster
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Raging Ravine
1 Twilight Mire
1 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Shatterstorm
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Jund Charm
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thoughtsieze
Also, for quick reference of anyone else looking, here are some SB notes I pulled from Willy's article
Tempo Twin
-Bob
- anger
Combo Twin
-anger
- ooze
- pulse
- courser
- chandra
- LB?
Melira
-IoK
-Abrupt Decay
AFfinity
- Bob
- courser
- chandra
- liliana
- ooze?
UWR
- LB
- Abrupt Decay
- Anger
Scapeshift
- LB
- Decay
- Anger
Hexproof
- Terminate
- LB
- Chandra
Storm
- Terminate
- Courser
- Chandra
- Anger
Burn
Lose?
TRON
- decay
- anger
- LB
Living End
- LB
- Anger
- Decay
Blue Moon
- Anger
- Terminate
- LB
Modern :
- Playing : Burn | Living End | Bant Eldrazi
- In Queue : ???
- Building : Death's Shadow |
- Sidelined : RUG Scapeshift | Lantern Control | GR Tron | Ad Nauseam | UWR Control | Dredge | Eldrazi Tron | UB Whir Tezzerator
EDH : Active Decks
BUGrimgrin Tribal ZombiesBU | WGRUril, the MiststalkerWGR | XKozilek, Butcher of TruthX
My Trade List
RE: Shocklands: I've always liked having 5 shocks in the manabase (typically 2 Tomb, 2 Crypt, 1 Ground), but lately I've cut down to 4 to fit in the filter lands and all 4 Ravines. I hate running out of targets for fetchlands, and it does come up pretty often. I'm also currently running the 4 basics, mostly because of getting Pathed with no basic to find too many times, but also for the usual reasons. Once I get my first copy of Grove it will probably replace the 2nd Forest. Point is though, how you tune your mana base is up to you, and it's always a work in progress. Tuning just means you're paying attention to the deck as your meta and preferences change.
RE: The BURN matchup: This matchup will never be great, but I don't think it's an auto-lose either. For those decks that are running pure burn (i.e. 8 creatures MAX) we have some serious problems, but even there we can win with a Courser + Disruption hand and some luck. Remember that many Burn players are not going to play optimally due to the nature of Red Decks as a casual and cheap option in the format. On top of that, they are relatively weak to mulliganing, and we still have enough disruption to punish them. Here is my quick guide to beating burn:
1) Keep in all or most of your discard. Inquisition is absolutely stellar against them (so maybe run 4 if you're really worried about this matchup), and Thoughtseize is often "Gain 1-2 life". It can be risky to cast a TS when their hand is low, so don't use it past turn 2-3 unless you are sure it will hit something worth more than 2 life, but the point is it still can help "gain" you life in the early turns.
2) Fetch carefully, and don't rush on any plays other than those that actively stop damage (such as Terminate on Goblin Guide or whatever). You can save a lot of life by fetching tapped lands and basics whenever possible.
3) Mulligan to find a life-gainer if the first hand isn't exciting. Courser or Ooze can really make the difference in stabilizing, and not much else matters in our deck. Similarly, a 5 card hand with IoK, Bolt, Goyf is much better than many 7 card hands. Racing is as important as lifegain.
4) Graveyard hate doesn't hurt. Rakdos Charm is probably bad unless you see a Shrine or similar artifact threat, but Jund Charm is very flexible and helps fight their creatures as well as any flashback, unearth, or lavamancer food in the yard. For this reason and the more obvious ones, Scavenging Ooze is probably the best card in the matchup. Play 4, since it's good against UWR and Pod as well.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
FIRE SALE! COME TAKE A LOOK!
I do like Dismember too, but I think Slaughter Pact is quite a bit better for us in the current meta, especially considering how much we want these effects against Affinity and Aggro, which are the very decks that punish us for taking damage from our own cards.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Blackcleave Cliffs x4
Copperline Gorge x1 (should be Grove of the Burnwillows x1
Raging Ravine x3
Verdant Catacombs x4
Marsh Flats x2
Misty Rainforest x1
Swamp x2
Forest x2
Stomping Ground x1
Overgrown Tomb x1
Blood Crypt x1
Fire-Lit Thicket x1
Twilight Mire x1
Creatures: 13
Dark Confidant x4
Tarmogoyf x4
Scavenging Ooze x3
Courser of Kruphix x2
Planeswalkers: 4
Liliana of the Veil x3
Chandra, Pyromaster x1
Instants: 10
Lightning Bolt x4
Abrupt Decay x3
Slaughter Pact x2
Dismember x1
Sorceries: 9
Thoughtseize x3
Inquisition of Kozilek x3
Anger of the Gods x2
Maelstrom Pulse x1
Sideboard: 15
Fulminator Mage x3
Rakdos Charm x2
Thrun, the Last Troll x2
Batterskull x1
Liliana of the Veil x1
Bow of Nylea x1
Thoughtseize x1
Golgari Charm x1
Anger of the Gods x1
Sowing Salt x1
Grafdigger's Cage x1
Round 2. Game 1 He mulled to 6. I inquisition seeing a second tron piece (he played 1 and a sphere) and a Karn. Turn 2 I thoughtseize the Karn. I get Liliana online turn 3 then start playing other threads. I get to ultimate Lilly to force him to choose 3 Mines or 1 Tower and 1 Powerplant and it's gg as no 3 cards in a row can win the game before he's dead. Game 2 was pretty sick. He Stirrings for a tron piece after playing a forest. I Thoughtseize into Confidant Fulminator hitting his Tower to prevent him from having 8 mana the following turn. He plays Powerplant on turn 4 and has tron in hand and an extra mine but on my turn 4 I Sowing Salt his Mine keeping him off tron and he scoops as I'm going to be able to keep up minor pressure and he won't be able to live to 6 mana. Sideboard plan -4 Bolt, -2 Anger, -1 Abrupt Decay, +3 Fulminator Mage, +1 Sowing Salt, +1 LotV
Round 3. Game 1 I mull to 6 into a similar 1 lander with a card down. He Inquisitions grabbing my Thoughseize. I just play Raging Ravine. He plays Honor of the Pure and I play Confidant ripping a land like a pro. He plays Lingering Souls then flashes it back the following turn after I play Courser. I swing then Anger. Eventually I'm able to Anger again to kill a half of a second Lingering Souls while Abrupt Decaying the Honor. He's able to Spectral Procession but I just Maelstrom Pulse the tokens. Eventually Liliana and Courser just provide enough card advantage to win. Game 2 I he Inquisitions my Anger and I Raging Ravine. He passes while I play Confidant. He Lingering Souls and I LotV to both discard. He fires at me and flashes back. I swing then Chandra. He plays Hero. I proceed remove Hero and cut him down to 1 token flyer. He Spectrals and I Anger to clear the board. Chandra and Liliana take over at that point and I just win. Sideboard plan: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Bolt -1 Dismember, +1 Anger, +1 Bow of Nylea, +1 Golgari Charm, +1 Batterskull, +1 LotV.
Game 4. Game 1 he mulls to 6 and inquisitions grabbing my Liliana (showing jund). I inquisition back seeing Goyf x2, Lilliana, thoughtseize and land. I'm in a really bad position because I'm down 2 goyfs to 1 (Ooze, Confidant, Goyf, Abrupt Decay, Land x2) and if Liliana hits he's way up on tempo. I grab Thoughtseize because if I can deal with his goyfs I might be able to beat past Liliana. He plays goyf and I play Confidant which he topdecks bolt for. I play Ooze removing my confidant and he plays a second goyf. I dismember and Abrupt decay in the same turn to wipe his board but fall to 3 in the process; my plan is to lose to Bolt if he has it or gain 2 with Ooze and swing back with a 5/5 ooze. He ends up LotV my Ooze but I follow up with Courser to continue to put myself out of range and removing his LotV. I win; I think I win handily on the play. This game really showed why I like Dismember as a "fifth bolt" and "third pact." The card just gives many options to help stabilize versus really aggressive draws. Game 2 was pretty interesting. He inquisitions Confidant where I decay his Confidant. He plays Lily and I rip and play a second Confidant. He edicts and passes the turn. I play Courser. He plays Goyf. I pact Goyf and kill Lily and play a lily of my own. He's stuck on 3 lands and can't play Thrun/Batterskull/etc. whereas I have Courser to help me draw more cards and an active Lily to force the win. Sideboard plan -3 Thoughsieze, -2 Anger, +1 LotV, +1 Batterskull, +1 Bow of Nylea, +2 Thrun.
Affinity: -3 Thoughtseize, -1 Chandra, -4 Confidant, +2 Rakdos Charm, +1 Golgari Charm, +1 Anger, +3 Fulminator, +1 Bow
Twin: +1 Golgari Charm, +2 Thrun, otherwise dependent on tempo, combo or Tarmo
Burn: -4 Confidant, -2 Anger, -1 Dismember, -1 Chandra, +2 Thrun, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Bow, +1 Batterskull, +3 Fulminator
Life: -2 Courser, -1 Dismember, -1 Liliana, -1 Chandra, -1 Bolt, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Anger, +1 Golgari Charm, +1 Batterskull, +1 Bow, +1 LotV
Scapeshift: -2 Anger, -3 Abrupt Decay, -4 Bolt -1 Dismember, +3 Fulminator, +1 Sowing Salt, +1 LotV, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Bow, +2 Thrun, +1 Batterskull
Otherwise the boarding I think is pretty obvious.
Dismember kills everything I want Pact to kill: Angels + Colonnade (am i missing anything?). For the rest of the stuff mentioned, we have the Decays and Terminates. Wurmcoil is a legit concern, but I've pretty much come to terms that Tron just isn't worth all the extra heartache anyway
There's no denying that Slaughter pact is awesome at what it does. I personally just don't like multiples of it.
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My list looks very similar to yours (as does all other jund players lol). Few questions/thoughts:
1. Do you miss terminate at all? My main deck removal suite is 3x Decay 1x Slaughter Pact 1x Terminate 1xDismember.
2. What match-up does Bow really shine in? I've tried it a few times but haven't quite yet figured it out where it really shines.
3. I've the same feelings about Sowing Salt. Similar to Shatterstorm, it feels like an auto-win against Tron and Scapeshift. The other match-ups that I would bring it in is any deck playing Colonnade, maybe Affinity, and maybe Jund for Ravine? Not sure if it's more of a win more against those other decks though.
4. I'm noticing more and more lists excluding Ancient Grudge/Shatterstorm, including yours
5. Pain Seer sounds kinda really bad lol. I rarely want to ever have 2 Bobs in at the same time anyway. Being said, don't wanna dog it b/c I haven't tried it, so let us know how it works out.
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After being super annoyed at playing against Spellskite in the Twin match-up, I decided to give it a spin myself. So far, I'm really liking it as a 2x in the board and am considering just putting it in the main deck straight up. All of our creatures feel very fragile and so Spellskite has been acting as the ultimate shield. And also has the added benefit of making the Twin match-up that much better (which is rampant in my area).
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1. Honestly, I haven't missed Terminate in specific much at all. I'd feel differently if BG were a thing in my area. I have missed being able to bring in Pact x2 from the board so that post board there's the option of 4 instant speed targeted removal cards. This is kinda want the Engineered Explosives x2 option in the board.
2. The matchups where you really hope to draw it are like Affinity and Burn. Otherwise I usually bring it in versus the grindy creature matchups because your creatures always trade up (barring Abrupt Decay), it quickens your clock, can protect versus growing Goyfs/Oozes and can stall. I'm not 100% sold on it yet honestly. I just figured I'd give it a run for a while and figure out if I actually like it or not. Currently I like both the idea of it but it's a card that hasn't really come up.
3. I bring it in versus Colonnade as well but not most of the other manland decks. Because of Bow, I would much prefer Fulminators over Sowing Salt.
4. I've played 2 Grudges as well as 1 Grudge and 1 Rakdos Charm. I'm not a big fan of Shatterstorm. The thing about affinity is that it's a high variance deck. I don't think that for the majority of the time it's worth having a better sideboard card for one matchup (and often one very rough situation) in favor of a card that's more useful and a variety of matchups. If affinity were far more popular in my area, then I'd have more dedicated hate to it. For a broad field, I'd probably play 1 Grudge in the board or maybe just find room for those 2 Explosives I've been trying to fit in.
5. It was more a passing thought than something I'll actually try. I think I would pretty heavily prefer it versus the various UWx decks. That said, it's just an idea for when they actually ban Confidant if they ever do.
As far as spellskite goes, I wouldn't play it. If Twin was more popular in my area, I'd cut the Pulse for a Putrefy and find space a third Pact or similar.
@Xerlic. In short yes. The manabase pre-board and post-board is heavy on color requirements. So you need as many colored sources as possible.
A 1/1 Dismember/pact split makes sense but I still just like 2 Terminates. Control and Twin are too popular and both of them can burn you out of the game with ease.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Thankfully as long as decks that play Remand are popular (Twin, Scapeshift and sometimes UWR runs it), Living End will be a small enough percentage of the metagame that you can realistically just hope to not play against it in a major tournament.
Don't play out more than 1-2 creatures until they cascade, especially Goyf. Mulligan to find Ooze or a charm. Force them to play awkwardly into your powerful spells. Save your hard removal and lili's for after the grave shift. Leave in all your discard on the play and probably always keep IoK in the deck. Sideboard into your own Fulminators. And lastly, mulligan into Scavenging Ooze. (4 copies ofc...)
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
If the deck is popular for you locally, adjust your SB accordingly. But at a big event I wouldn't expect to play against more than 1 LE opponent on average.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Well, I've never been to Spain. . .
Sorry, I can never resist.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Anger-Jund Charm-Grudge-Rakdos Charm work for me. Going anger into Jund Charm clears mosty of their board and manlands.
Mulliganing to hate is important.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB