MTG Salvation

Would it be crazy to Include blood moon in Grixis? I fee like the actual need for black mans is low and siding out cryptic for blood moon could really mess up junk and control.

Nothing is crazy until you test it. Knowing Bloodmoon is coming out lets you prepare for it and if you're not trying to hit cryptic mana then you should be ok.

Quote from Magix »

Quote from DNSolver »

Instead of Flame Slash or Dismember or Reality Shift, I need an answer to Siege Rhino and Tarmogoyf in straight UR. Right now I'm on Harvest Pyre. Are there any other options outside of bouncing these?

Edit: On the dragons, I am considering putting a Stormbreath in place of my Keranos because Keranos hasn't been too impressive.

Thundermaw can kill Siege Rhino in defence while Stormbreath can not. That may be an issue if you face more than 1 Rhino and / or 4/5 Goyf.
How about Sower of Tempation out of the board? Or if you overload their Decays with Blood Moon and Threads you might also run some Shackles between your mainboard and sideboard. Combust is also nice. Or you run some Lavamancer which kills a Rhino alongside Bolt, harrasses Liliana and may snipe Bob and Souls. Imo Lavaman is a strong choice right now and he performed great at my last tournament. Besides Junk he is also great against any fair MU and you will like him against Affinity a lot.

technically stormbreath can block siege rhino without dyingand with no lifeloss, a bolt or an electrolyze can finish the job

I've been missing being able to slam Twin on a beater with a relevant ETB ability. I run Olivia in that role and even Tas doesn't get there with the Legendary clause.

Article today about Temur Twin.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/daily-deck/modern-temur-twin-2015-02-04

Quote from Magix »

Quote from Dargaud »

I'm not really posting all that much right now due to preparation for the pro tour on this weekend but if you want to kill rhinos and goyfs, harvest pyre is a clean answer to a lot of these and doesn't damage you like dismember. Since DTT is gone the graveyard isn't taxes that much anyway.

I did not know that this card existed until Patrick Chapin played it at worlds, its a great idea for straight UR or RUG though. Anyways I´m rooting for you at the pro tour Patrick, Twin em for the Win

The only annoying thing with pyre is that its hard to deal with something big early. On the other hand, exiling a bunch of stuff from the gy to shrink a goyf and kill it is pretty decent. Later on it can even be snapcastered though as the gy is likely flush with lots of stuff

What do you guys think of this Grixis list? Has been decent for me, but im more of a burn/delver player but twin seems good and a lot of fun.

I don't think you want thoughtseize. I think you want 2x duress and a cryptic. The things you worry about are removal that can break your combo. With 4x Lightning bolts and 4x terminates creatures dont look like a big worry. The 2 life lost with TS could be a big deal in the end. Duress basically gets everything you worry about.

Just did a small LGS tournament tonight and I must say that Tasigur did some work. First off, just like others have mentioned, I don't believe we should be running discard. Forcing the opponent to discard is not something we really want to do. One of the main reasons to run black, besides Tasigur, is for the removal. However, we should not flood the deck with black removal because we are already running 4 Bolts. I believe having a small amount of black removal is the way to go. Also, I would like to mention that I was really impressed with Tasigur's activated ability. Granted you always get back the worst card, but the vast majority of our cards provides some form of advantage ranging from removal, counter, or deck manipulation. The list I ran tonight is:



I am fairly pleased with the list but right now the removal still feels a little light. However, being that light with the black removal may be the correct decision. Right now I am currently thinking of cutting a single Remand or Splinter Twin and replacing it with another Terminate. I will have to play around and see how that feels.

Quote from Ravnoss »

Just did a small LGS tournament tonight and I must say that Tasigur did some work. First off, just like others have mentioned, I don't believe we should be running discard. Forcing the opponent to discard is not something we really want to do. One of the main reasons to run black, besides Tasigur, is for the removal. However, we should not flood the deck with black removal because we are already running 4 Bolts. I believe having a small amount of black removal is the way to go. Also, I would like to mention that I was really impressed with Tasigur's activated ability. Granted you always get back the worst card, but the vast majority of our cards provides some form of advantage ranging from removal, counter, or deck manipulation. The list I ran tonight is:

Ravnoss's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands (22) 1 Blood Crypt 1 Desolate Lighthouse 4 Island 1 Mountain 4 Polluted Delta 4 Scalding Tarn 3 Steam Vents 2 Sulfur Falls 1 Swamp 1 Watery Grave Creatures (13) 4 Snapcaster Mage 3 Deceiver Exarch 3 Pestermite 3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang	Spells (21) 1 Dispel 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Serum Visions 1 Spell Snare 3 Thought Scour 4 Remand 1 Terminate 1 Dismember 1 Electrolyze 1 Murderous Cut Enchantments (4) 4 Splinter Twin	Sideboard (15) 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Spell Pierce 1 Combust 2 Negate 1 Pyroclasm 2 Rakdos Charm 1 Spellskite 1 Terminate 2 Blood Moon 1 Shatterstorm 1 Batterskull 1 Keranos, God of Storms

I am fairly pleased with the list but right now the removal still feels a little light. However, being that light with the black removal may be the correct decision. Right now I am currently thinking of cutting a single Remand or Splinter Twin and replacing it with another Terminate. I will have to play around and see how that feels.

Nice list. How did blood moon in the board work out for you? That was something I was debating as well.

Quote from Dargaud »

I'm not really posting all that much right now due to preparation for the pro tour on this weekend but if you want to kill rhinos and goyfs, harvest pyre is a clean answer to a lot of these and doesn't damage you like dismember. Since DTT is gone the graveyard isn't taxes that much anyway.

i forgot about the pyre, nice card!

Decided to shell out for Tasigurs inflated price and immediately won a modern event playing Tasigur Twin, going 4-0 with the below list:



My opponents were:
Round1: Burn won, 2-1
Round2: UWR Control, won 2-0
Round3: Blue Moon, won 2-0
Round4: Burn, won 2-1
There was a decent showing of Junk/Scapeshift in the meta- I just was not paired against them.

OPINIONS:
- The two Dragons Claws in the sideboard literally won me both matchups vs Burn.
- Tasigur is definitely better than Tarmogoyf when it comes to the control matchups. Im still unsure if 3 or 4 is the correct number to run.
- Although it has the potential to be devastating, Slaughter games probably is too narrow of a sideboard card,
- Izzet Charm and Cryptic Command were both really good for me in the maindeck. Dismember and Thoughtscour seemed lacklustre. - This could be directly related to my opponents decks.
- Thoughtscour for the most part felt unnecessary

CHANGES:
LANDS:
The manabase can obviously be improved. + 4 Scalding Tarns - 2 Flooded Strand, -1 Bloodstained Mire, -1 Sulfur Falls
MAINDECK:
+ 1 Terminate, + 1 Remand, -1 Thought Scour, -1 Dismember
SIDEBOARD:
+2 Blood Moon - 1 Slaughter Games, -1 Anger of the Gods. I would like to fit in an additional card for Abzan here (Sower or Threads).

For abzan you can also consider deathmark which hits both goyf and rhino, as well as ooze and practically anything else not bob or a planeswalker. A different take is going the tempo route with stuff like flashfreeze or hibernation. The downside to hibernation is they get to rhino-helix you again.

Quote from kirbyzero »

- Tasigur is definitely better than Tarmogoyf when it comes to the control matchups. Im still unsure if 3 or 4 is the correct number to run.

Two things on this comment. Why do you think tasigur is better then goyf in the control matchups? I keep seeing lists running 4 Tasigurs and I don't really understand why as hes a legendary and would want to avoid have multiple dead cards in hand? I think 3 would be the right number.

Quote from monkeyroar »

Quote from kirbyzero »

- Tasigur is definitely better than Tarmogoyf when it comes to the control matchups. Im still unsure if 3 or 4 is the correct number to run.

Two things on this comment. Why do you think tasigur is better then goyf in the control matchups? I keep seeing lists running 4 Tasigurs and I don't really understand why as hes a legendary and would want to avoid have multiple dead cards in hand? I think 3 would be the right number.

Obviously sample size is small, but vs control:
- Its basically always a 1mana must kill threat, allowing you to keep more mana open for counterspells/paying for mana leak.
- You can generally mill out all spells from your graveyard except the very best. I returned counterspells to my hand multiple times with Tasigur vs control opponents.
- You can leave your mana open until your opponents end step, allowing the option to represent countermagic, activate Tasigur or flash in a creature.
- Only path to exile kills it, and Exarch is already putting a lot of pressure on their Paths. Even if your opponent does have it, they ramp you up for the mana advantage in the inevitable counterspell war you will have trying to combo. (I guess this one is true for Goyf most of the time aswell).

You could be right that 3 is the correct number. I need to play the deck more to know.
There were a couple of times where I had a Tasigur in play and one in hand, however they were games I was already ahead.

Quote from 7ornado »

nice list and i agree with your decisions. i'm not sure if playing the 4th removal spell or not too. if so, i'm gonna play dreadbore cause i want to be sure to kill liliana no matter what. this night gonna have a tournment at LGS and i'll play i list very similar to yours.

I'm excited to hear how your games went and how Dreadbore worked for you. Currently, I feel that Dreadbore is a spell we should avoid, that could change with a meta shift, because it's a two mana sorcery speed removal. I would much rather keep the mana open and hold up for a Remand or Terminate. Also, since Dreadbore is sorcery speed Liliana will hit the battle and still get an activation. Then you would need to wait until your turn to Dreadbore her. I would much rather try and keep her off the table with Remand or Bolt her at EOT if she must be dealt with immediately.

Quote from Complex Pants »

Nice list. How did blood moon in the board work out for you? That was something I was debating as well.

Unfortunately, I was unable to play Blood Moon. However, I did play around it when I was paired with UR Delver. Blood Moon never hit the table, not sure if he sided it in, but the deck function fine when using a Basic Swamp to cast the spells, but that was me playing around Blood Moon that I thought the opponent had. Now, on the other hand, if I were playing Blood Moon the deck should function fine because I can plan ahead and grab the correct basics when I need to.

Quote from Magix »

Thats my take on URb Twin right now. Also just had a sick nice game against UR Delver, entering Turn 23 in the final game
Notes:
- I dont think Thought Scour is needed, Tasigur hit the field constantly at turn 3. Fetch, Serum Visions etc. help.
- Mana is quite excelent and the deck could operate under Blood Moon with only 1 Island against Delver (the screenshot of the 3rd game was against a T3 Blood Moon with only 1 Island in play)
- Because the black splash is so light, I can see the deck running Blood Moons. I only need the swamp for Tasigur and Terminate and we all now that the rest of the deck is fine under moon. Ofc Molten Rain can be an alternative
- Maindeck Dispel is the 16th sideboard card, I wanted 1 more hate against BGx ( Sower ) so I had to make space.
- Loothouse is insane in this deck. I filtered away 3 dead Twins into life cards all while filling the grave for Tasigur again. On that line I also like Izzet Charm.
- Random TecEdge against random lands (hi Bosejiu)

Only negative is that you cant deal with enchantments (!CHOKE!/Keranos) and Vandalblast / Rakdos Charm can carry only that much against Affinity or stuff like Shackles. They are no Ancient Grudge or Shatterstorm. I dont know how this MU will play out yet. Burn was quite excellent so far, Dispel, Negate, Claw, everything helps to either grind to Bskull or get Twin together. Zoo was also quite good since you can fry their small dudes while Tas blocks the fat ones. Deathmark is also great against those decks
Thats all I could test right now.

I might test the deck without any Thought Scour. Though we may never get that magical turn two Tasigur we would be able to replace those spells with much better spells. Only testing will show us the answers. One thing to keep in mind is that Thought Scour paired with Snapcaster is amazing. There have been times when I casted Thought Scour, with Snapcaster in hand, where I drew Remand and milled Terminate. During those times Thought Scour has been amazing. When considering cutting Thought Scour we have to remember that we run 4 Snapcasters, so there is value in the milling aspect of the card. Also, I agree with your statement on Blood Moon. Grixis Twin does appear to have the ability to play through Blood Moon since we only really need 1 Swamp to function. Lastly, losing Ancient Grudge is huge and I am wondering how playing against Affinity will be, but we are running more removal so maybe the matchup may not be that bad.

I am running 2x Engineered Explosives in my board and man do they hose affinity. If get one early, playing it on 0, can hit something like 50%+ of their board and really mess up their plans. I also plan on having 1 shatterstorm around as well.

Quote from sigisiegert »

Engineered Explosives does help against blood moon additionally.
Instead of shatterstorm i would consider playing vandalblast as it is just one mana more to blow everything up and can also be used to handle one single troublesome artifact in the early game if needed. (2 with snapcaster)

EE is awful vs bloodmoon. If you can pay three mana and pop it then bloodmoon wasn't doing much against you anyways as you could cast spells with 2 of your lands being basics. Unless you hedge against it coming down and waste a card against another card that is probably best used wiping the board of the deck that cast it (affinity, delver etc.)

So this is where I'm at trying to formulate a Tasigur Twin list. Anyone with more first-hand experience have any suggestions?

I dont mind the full playset of Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I've done goofed and had one killed before so it's nice to always have another one to cast ready and in hand the majority of the time. I do agree Thought Scour is the weakest card MB currently, but the upside is what it enables i will end up trading one out for a Izzet Charm and see how it runs at our next modern night sorry Sasky D: love your list though.

Quote from Dargaud »

I'm not really posting all that much right now due to preparation for the pro tour on this weekend but if you want to kill rhinos and goyfs, harvest pyre is a clean answer to a lot of these and doesn't damage you like dismember. Since DTT is gone the graveyard isn't taxes that much anyway.

Thanks for the suggestion and best of luck at the PT.