MTG Salvation

The pod matchup is AWFUL. that is the only matchup i cant seem to make over 30%. Delver really depends on the build and the player. Since it is a cheap deck to build many newcomers to the format build it. That being said with treasure cruise lots of veterans play it as well. It is difficult to beat delver if their draw is good and the player is skilled. Burn on the other hand i havent had any issue with i actually took my dragons claws completely out of my board. To be fair i haven't had too much tournament play against it. With all the scrying you do its easy to draw lots of extra cards via goblin guide and turn 4 them.

The inferno titan build helps a lot against pod. That and siding in anger of the gods. I swear though, pod players seem to get some of the best top decks. I can't tell you how often it goes - I blast pod, opp draws and plays siege rhino.

Pod MU is not awful, you're probably either approaching it the wrong way or missideboarding or something. What are you doing in that matchup?

well having anger is so huge. Patrick can be seen at the pro tour against pardee and anger blew pardee out likely winning him the game against pardee. But at milan he had pyroclasm and he played against a pod deck and pyroclasm made voices bigger and some stuff persist. It wasn't even good. And it was very likely that if he had anger in the deck he would have one. Its made me not ever want me ever want to cut my angers from my sb. i do have a pyroclasm tho for delver because anger is too exspensive to cast in that MU

Blood moon is high variance against pod as its a three mana sorcery thats a blowout or something marginally effective. Mainly comes down to how aggresively you kill mana creatures/how many basics they have and keep their board clean early only to drop it and hopefully lock them out.

Is splashing black not a thing? IE. removing some permission and running discard instead. Thought of trimming some remands and spell snares for IOK and thoughtseize.

Been running something close to the URw list people have pointed out, but just wondering because it never seems to be brought up. Just a bad meta call against burn/tempo fields?

Quote from GodofConfusion »

I know, but its usally high variance against most tricolored decks anwyays and depends alot on whether people sense it coming and are smart enough to fetch around it.

Pod and junk are tight enough matchups as it is, Id rather just be playing actual cards that are always good like more midrange threats, a sweeper, dismember even rather than playing a card that potentially does nothing. I could see a spreading seas and blood moon plan working though and have used that in rug twin at times.

And grixis twin is not a thing. IOK and Thoughtseize are bad topdecks in grindy matchups and dont cantrip which is not good in this deck. That deck has seen some play but it is not good.

Quote from alpinefroggy »

Quote from GodofConfusion »

I know, but its usally high variance against most tricolored decks anwyays and depends alot on whether people sense it coming and are smart enough to fetch around it.

Pod and junk are tight enough matchups as it is, Id rather just be playing actual cards that are always good like more midrange threats, a sweeper, dismember even rather than playing a card that potentially does nothing. I could see a spreading seas and blood moon plan working though and have used that in rug twin at times.

And grixis twin is not a thing. IOK and Thoughtseize are bad topdecks in grindy matchups and dont cantrip which is not good in this deck. That deck has seen some play but it is not good.

I think Grixis Twin is okay. White and Green are better now because of the relevant removal and the relevant bodies, also Thoughtseize and IOK are in a bad spot due to the delve cards affecting the metagame greatly making Black currently in low demand.

As for my list:



A modified list from Patrick Dickmann's GP Madrid Twin list with a very small splash on green in the sideboard. I'm testing Surrak Dragonclaw in the side mainly as a midrange beater against other Pod and Jund decks as well as a finisher against control. The manabase was also altered to represent the change (Still no Tarns, reprint DTK?)

I think Blood Moon not as well positioned as in Pre-KTK season as UR decks are running rampant. I kinda prefer the LD strategy in the side to specify pinpointed removal like Sowing Salt against Tron decks, or cheaper Land control like Spreading Seas. The latter works on basic lands as well so that you can deny specifically the color other than blue, making it good against other nonblue decks like BGx and Pod.

My Pod Matchups are 50-50. Sometimes they tap out accidentally for Finks or Rhino and you combo off and other times you can go the long game with Batterskull and Snap Clique Backup. Postboard I generally side out Remand and Dispel for Combusts, Anger of the Gods and a few Grudges with some finishers like Surrak and Batterskull. Countermagic is generally bad against Pod decks unless they are countermagic with other things to do (Izzet Charm, Cryptic Command)

Burn is difficult, but Burn has been falling off lately due to the massive hate against them. My strategy against them is to try to combo off as soon as possible with Deceiver Exarch. Like a few pages back, Deceiver to Twin Combo needs 2 burn spells to stop so a healthy life total and only one untapped land from their side mostly wins me the game. Postboard cheaper Countermagic and Batterskull comes in and Remand as well as Pestermites gets sided out. Its generally easier against them postboard once you have cheaper removal and Batterskull late game.

Delver is generally dependent on the Skill level of the player, and the only few games I played against was a much less experienced player who just got into Modern recently (Delver is cheap economically afterall). The general strategy I preferred was to watch their mana and get rid of their red dudes as soon as possible. Its easier that way because they depend on Swiftspear and Pyromancer for value and the game depends on whether do they have them onto the battlefield as soon as possible. Sometimes they tap out for Pyromancer and you DTT in response with counter backup.
Postboard I will side out Cryptic Command, Remands for cheaper countermagic like Dispel, Negate and Removal like Anger and Echoing Truth.

Quote from tronix »

Is splashing black not a thing? IE. removing some permission and running discard instead. Thought of trimming some remands and spell snares for IOK and thoughtseize.

Been running something close to the URw list people have pointed out, but just wondering because it never seems to be brought up. Just a bad meta call against burn/tempo fields?

I have seen one or two URb lists go 3-1 or 4-0 on MODO. I played with Thoughtseize and Inquisition and here is what my experience has led me to believe. You have to remove some of your cantrip spells to make room for these cards. When you cast a hand disruption spell early chances are you hit something that maybe a worthwhile trade. When you draw hand disruption later then you often don't find much useful. The worst part about using hand disruption is that you don't replace the card with a cantrip effect. This means that you are not drawing as many cards as you normally would and you may have a more difficult time finding the combo. Maybe the printing of Dig Through Time has made this a lesser problem. I do concede that I tried the URb version before Khans. Being able to use Thoughtseize or Inquisition to help pay for a Dig Through Time doesn't seem all that bad.

I did like being able to remove the problematic cards from their hand using the hand disruption. I also like some of the sideboard options that were available in black; Slaughter Games springs to mind. However needing a third color made the manabase more painful which influenced certain match ups such as Burn and Delver. I do believe in Blood moon so adding the third color makes playing very problematic. By having to play around your own Blood moon you are burdening yourself with more difficult lines of play. Also with a lot decks running Dig Through Time or Treasure Cruise hand disruption doesn't quite get as much value as it used to.

If you plan on playing 4 Dig Through Time then I think that a URb version could be an option as it is more of a tempo version of Twin and that certainly seems like the direction this deck is taking given the current meta.

Hey guys, a question for you all. What's good against Twin? I'm going to a PPTQ next weekend where I know there will be a lot of Twin, and I'd like to be prepared.

Tough to say. As for "tier 1" decks, uwr and bgx are probably the worst. heavy disruption and threats (bgx especially) is challenging to fight though. These matchups arent necesarily bad though, midrange threats and digs make these slightly unfavored at worst as they have lots of play. Scapeshift is another potential one. Both versions can struggle against it with rug being slightly better because goyf is a good threat.

As for fringe strategies, ad nauseam and infect are pretty bad. Our disruption and combo dont match up well vs those decks.

Quote from GodofConfusion »

What I meant is that Blood Moon potentially doing nothing is true even against Zoo, Junk, and Uwr. They can just fetch basics, while Pod and Junk can hold up mana for Abrupt Decay, Uwr usually always boards in Wear/Tear which can also answer Blood Moon. Its not just in the Pod MU where Blood Moon is likely to be have little impact. I just think Blood Moon is best when unexpected, I always board it in vs tricolor decks, it only works 1/3 of the time you board it in though, mainly because you dont always draw it and even if you do they can sometimes answer it.

Also, if I were playing RUG Twin, Im not sure I'd play Blood Moon.

As you just said, moon is best when unexpected. Thats why I used to play it in rug from time to time when bgx was a big deck. I'd fetch a blue and green source early and blow them out when they weren't expecting it from a three color deck. Then I'd potentially fix some mana with spreading seas and function for a tad off a few sources of each until I'd combo off unimpeded or beat them with an unaswerable goyf

Quote from alpinefroggy »

Tough to say. As for "tier 1" decks, uwr and bgx are probably the worst. heavy disruption and threats (bgx especially) is challenging to fight though. These matchups arent necesarily bad though, midrange threats and digs make these slightly unfavored at worst as they have lots of play. Scapeshift is another potential one. Both versions can struggle against it with rug being slightly better because goyf is a good threat.

As for fringe strategies, ad nauseam and infect are pretty bad. Our disruption and combo dont match up well vs those decks.

Quote from GodofConfusion »

What I meant is that Blood Moon potentially doing nothing is true even against Zoo, Junk, and Uwr. They can just fetch basics, while Pod and Junk can hold up mana for Abrupt Decay, Uwr usually always boards in Wear/Tear which can also answer Blood Moon. Its not just in the Pod MU where Blood Moon is likely to be have little impact. I just think Blood Moon is best when unexpected, I always board it in vs tricolor decks, it only works 1/3 of the time you board it in though, mainly because you dont always draw it and even if you do they can sometimes answer it.

Also, if I were playing RUG Twin, Im not sure I'd play Blood Moon.

As you just said, moon is best when unexpected. Thats why I used to play it in rug from time to time when bgx was a big deck. I'd fetch a blue and green source early and blow them out when they weren't expecting it from a three color deck. Then I'd potentially fix some mana with spreading seas and function for a tad off a few sources of each until I'd combo off unimpeded or beat them with an unaswerable goyf

I'm also not sure whether UWR is good against us. I've played against UWR and the deck cannot keep up with Dig Through Time and my own countermagic. I think Traditional UWR control is poorly positioned because it is not reactive enough against the faster decks and it has not enough gas to last through the late game against Scapeshift and gang.

With the increased ability to select the singletons in the deck with Dig what do people think about running Sleight of Hand over thought scour? Thought Scour fuels Dig quicker, but also is a pretty bad cantrip and can mill out any non spell bombs in the deck(Twin, Bskull, Keranos, any creature) and make them irretrievable. The more singletons we run the better fixing is for the deck, and it seems like running 2-4 Sleight of Hand helps that plan a lot better than Thought Scour while still providing a one mana spell to fuel Dig.

Quote from MasterOfEtherium »

Hey guys, a question for you all. What's good against Twin? I'm going to a PPTQ next weekend where I know there will be a lot of Twin, and I'd like to be prepared.

As someone who has played UR Twin, Tarmo-Twin, and Scapeshift in my time as a Modern player, Scapeshift is an absolute headache for Twin. Usually a Scapeshift player can just sit on counterspells while they ramp and there isn't much that Twin can do about that. Tarmo-Twin does have a little bit better of a game, but really against Scapeshift you can only try to jam your combo and pray they don't have an answer.

Besides Scapeshift in particular, decks like Deadguy Ale (which more people should be playing) and any deck that plays unconditional instant speed removal like Path to Exile is something you should be wary of. For awhile back before Deathrite Shaman got banned and BW Tokens and Jund were prevalent I played two Leyline of Sanctitys in my board and would just mull to one in game two or three because the disruption is so hard to combat.

anyone have an idea of the mandatory side board cards for u/r twin in a diverse meta

right now i have

Anger, anger, anger. That card really helps with the pod matchup. Put it in at least as a one of.

Quote from alpinefroggy »

Anger, anger, anger. That card really helps with the pod matchup. Put it in at least as a one of.

should i keep the pyro at 2 or do a 1/1 split

I am not experienced with ur enough to say what you should cut but I think you could cut echoing truth.

Quote from alpinefroggy »

Anger, anger, anger. That card really helps with the pod matchup. Put it in at least as a one of.

Anger is terrific. So is annul, as well as inferno titan.

Quote from Sled_Dog »

Quote from alpinefroggy »

Anger, anger, anger. That card really helps with the pod matchup. Put it in at least as a one of.

Anger is terrific. So is annul, as well as inferno titan.

Inferno Titan? 6 CMC card in a Modern deck with no ramp?