Problem with Salt is that Scapeshift players these days are usually smart enough to run 10 mountains, so they'll still be able to reach 6. Negates are usually pretty good (as with vs. UWR), and Eidolon of Rhetoric is good there too (makes your Negates, Chords, and Mindcensors uncounterable a lot of the time).
Those lists are bad, that article is bad. Reasons:
-Against Twin, he's boarding out Staticaster but keeping Murderous Redcap in. Why you want a 2RR non-flash dude over a 1UR "blocks Exarch, kills Vendilion, Snapcaster and Pestermite" guy who flashes in is bizarre.
-The Scavenging Ooze + Voice of Resurgence plan is very good when you need to play fair. His only 2cc cards are Phantasmal Image, Spellskite and Lotus Cobra and none of those really help your plan. At least Voice shuts off counters and makes a dude, Wall of Roots accelerates mana and Scavenging Ooze becomes a giant problem lategame.
-He's cutting Coursers against Twin while still running eight 1-drop mana guys. He's relying on Tracker's Instincts, a sorcery, to get him there against Twin. Meanwhile, Courser is a 2/4 that has a respectable filtering ability.
-Nobody runs Fiend Hunter because it is no good. It doesn't do anything because it eats bolts and Paths.
-No Avalanche Riders on the board is a tremendous oversight.
-One Gavony Township is one too many or one too few.
-He's got no actual testing results - nothing to hang his hat on. Just "I tuned this into the list you see."
All those criticisms aside, I really do like Courser. It might be a really decent swap for at least one Kitchen Finks.
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Hey guys, here is the list I've been working with (I don't have any Grove of the Burnwillows so I'm using Copperline Gorges for now). I want to fit a Phantasmal Image in, as I've playtested with it (just throwing it in as the 61st card) and I've liked how flexible it is, but I just can't figure out what to cut. Can anyone provide some insight into what the Image might replace?
Also, I've been thinking of maybe testing a Courser of Kruphix in place of the Fiend Hunter, but Fiend Hunter has been really good for me since there's a good amount of Tron in my area and being able to take out Wurmcoil Engines is excellent. Also, handling Linvala in the mirror is very nice. However, it's been lackluster against a lot of matchups where my opponent can just bolt or path it.
i don't play phatasmal image and i don't miss it ^^ also, i have a question regarding izzet staticaster, i think is 100% better than fiend hunter, so i'd play it over him...BUT i dont really like blue and messed mana in this deck (i play only glen elendra and 1x exarch in my kiki) so i play fiend hunter over him. But i'm wonder if Cunning Sparkmage would be better than him, what do you think about it? (don't tell me play staticaster, i know it's better than those 2, but i have to choose one, fiend hunter o cunning sparkmage)
InsomniacBear, cut your third wall of roots for image. 2 is the right number of WoR unless your running 4 chords. And to anyone who is not playing with image: you're doing it wrong. Image is pretty much the most tool boxy card you have in the entire deck, which happens to be a tool box combo deck.
InsomniacBear, cut your third wall of roots for image. 2 is the right number of WoR unless your running 4 chords. And to anyone who is not playing with image: you're doing it wrong. Image is pretty much the most tool boxy card you have in the entire deck, which happens to be a tool box combo deck.
I'm not saying it's a bad card, i just don't like it. I allways seen it as a fast combo enabler,but for 8 life points i don't see the need (in hundreds of games i think i did it once xD) i allways sided it out cause it allways died too easily (it's no more a doomblade!). And i like doing it wrong if that means playing like brian liu or the guy who played kiki pod finishing first to the ptq in Milan and many others like us i think it's just a different way to see the deck, for istance i like more the midrange deck, usually i don't win through combo until i am 99% sure, and to have that pertencuage i have to fight throught the midrange plan. For that reason i don't play chords (my most recent change) and trying Domri Rade (that acts as a removal and CA, after the winner of PTQ Milan i'm quite in doubt to remove them and put 3x Path to exile, faster and better removal)
i don't play phatasmal image and i don't miss it ^^ also, i have a question regarding izzet staticaster, i think is 100% better than fiend hunter, so i'd play it over him...BUT i dont really like blue and messed mana in this deck (i play only glen elendra and 1x exarch in my kiki) so i play fiend hunter over him. But i'm wonder if Cunning Sparkmage would be better than him, what do you think about it? (don't tell me play staticaster, i know it's better than those 2, but i have to choose one, fiend hunter o cunning sparkmage)
I have gotten a lot of use out of Cunning Sparkmage. It is very good in the mirror and Melira match, since you can avoid killing your own guys. I've had the 1 toughness matter sometimes - it can't kill a Lavamancer and live, for example. And I've also faced down two Delver of Secrets pre-flip before, which was a nail-biter. But all in all, I like Sparkmage a whole lot more than I like Staticaster. That you can avoid killing your own guys is a pretty big deal.
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i don't play phatasmal image and i don't miss it ^^ also, i have a question regarding izzet staticaster, i think is 100% better than fiend hunter, so i'd play it over him...BUT i dont really like blue and messed mana in this deck (i play only glen elendra and 1x exarch in my kiki) so i play fiend hunter over him. But i'm wonder if Cunning Sparkmage would be better than him, what do you think about it? (don't tell me play staticaster, i know it's better than those 2, but i have to choose one, fiend hunter o cunning sparkmage)
I have gotten a lot of use out of Cunning Sparkmage. It is very good in the mirror and Melira match, since you can avoid killing your own guys. I've had the 1 toughness matter sometimes - it can't kill a Lavamancer and live, for example. And I've also faced down two Delver of Secrets pre-flip before, which was a nail-biter. But all in all, I like Sparkmage a whole lot more than I like Staticaster. That you can avoid killing your own guys is a pretty big deal.
thanks man for the feedback on that card, i like it a lot!i'm glad i bought it at 0,05 euro i like it also cause it can kill at istant speed 2 creatures with resto angel, a thing that fiend hunter can't do!
Sounds more than reasonable. Cutting from the chord slots? Maybe up the number of voices with the wolves hanging around. Master of the Wild Hunt is going really deep but sounds hilarious with black wolves
@Ardass
Reveillark is interesting. How does it normally work out for you? We're much higher on non-returnable cards than melira, would -1 finks +1 scooze make sense? Particularly if you're going the Domri route, scooze is probably the best "fighter" we have.
I disagree on chord, I think it's one of the most combo-centric options we have. Eternal Witness allows us to search out the combo off of one chord. Melira pod is better at interacting with the opponent but Kiki's main advantage (in my opinion) is being less predictable. Pod chains, Restoration Angel, Deceiver Exarch, Gavony and chord all add to the number of things our opponent needs to be considering. I think chord might be the most difficult card to use in the deck; I know I misplayed it several times this week at my LGS. That being said, if we don't need Wall of Roots for chord, what about Sylvan Caryatid?
1 Exarch and 1 Image is unusual. People tend to really like the chains and go for 2 exarch, 1 image or the brian liu camp with 1 exarch, 0 image and more dudes that turn sideways.
Excelent idea on the receillark, i think ill put One in the side, against bg an uw decks is pure value, i often side out 1 kiki against them. I 100% agree on the domri discussion, i allways sided out chords cause i kept them in my hands, too much mana and most of Times i need it to cast my spells. I have to test out coursier, cutting 1 wall of roots (i play 2) or 1 kitchen (i play 3), what do you guess?
Archanz, if you're running 3 chords I suggest dropping the finks. If you're only running 2 its safe to cut the wall. I find wall n chord are some of my favorite cards in the deck and I usually keep 2 in against uwr and board out a couple pod if I'm on the draw. If on the play I like the pod over chord in that match bc turn 2 pod seems to be the best chance to resolve a pod against control
If you are going to play Domri I do think that Courser is much more appealing but if you are going to cut Finks then you need to supplement your 3 drops slot. For example, I do like FabRox's list. However, only 4 3-drops worries me for late game grindy matchups where I may not be able to convert my dorks and Walls into threats.
Does anyone have any thoughts on why this deck was able to take the victory?
This deck made a few card selections that seem unique to me, being Stonehorn Dignitary in maindeck (I have never seen this card in a kiki list before) Fauna Shaman in maindeck (I haven't seen this on a list here in a while. Is it good?) Burrenton Forge-Tender in sideboard (someone mentioned a few posts back that this card can circumstantially be useful to Chord for in response to Anger of the Gods but probably not worth the spot)
What do you guys think about this list?
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BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Problem with Salt is that Scapeshift players these days are usually smart enough to run 10 mountains, so they'll still be able to reach 6. Negates are usually pretty good (as with vs. UWR), and Eidolon of Rhetoric is good there too (makes your Negates, Chords, and Mindcensors uncounterable a lot of the time).
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
-Against Twin, he's boarding out Staticaster but keeping Murderous Redcap in. Why you want a 2RR non-flash dude over a 1UR "blocks Exarch, kills Vendilion, Snapcaster and Pestermite" guy who flashes in is bizarre.
-The Scavenging Ooze + Voice of Resurgence plan is very good when you need to play fair. His only 2cc cards are Phantasmal Image, Spellskite and Lotus Cobra and none of those really help your plan. At least Voice shuts off counters and makes a dude, Wall of Roots accelerates mana and Scavenging Ooze becomes a giant problem lategame.
-He's cutting Coursers against Twin while still running eight 1-drop mana guys. He's relying on Tracker's Instincts, a sorcery, to get him there against Twin. Meanwhile, Courser is a 2/4 that has a respectable filtering ability.
-Nobody runs Fiend Hunter because it is no good. It doesn't do anything because it eats bolts and Paths.
-No Avalanche Riders on the board is a tremendous oversight.
-One Gavony Township is one too many or one too few.
-He's got no actual testing results - nothing to hang his hat on. Just "I tuned this into the list you see."
All those criticisms aside, I really do like Courser. It might be a really decent swap for at least one Kitchen Finks.
Also, I've been thinking of maybe testing a Courser of Kruphix in place of the Fiend Hunter, but Fiend Hunter has been really good for me since there's a good amount of Tron in my area and being able to take out Wurmcoil Engines is excellent. Also, handling Linvala in the mirror is very nice. However, it's been lackluster against a lot of matchups where my opponent can just bolt or path it.
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Gavony Township
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
1 Forest
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Wall of Roots
2 Voice of Resurgance
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Fiend Hunter
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Deceiver Exarch
3 Restoration Angel
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Zealous Conscripts
Non-creature Spells
4 Birthing Pod
3 Chord of Calling
3 Path to Exile
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Negate
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Fiery Justice
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
I'm not saying it's a bad card, i just don't like it. I allways seen it as a fast combo enabler,but for 8 life points i don't see the need (in hundreds of games i think i did it once xD) i allways sided it out cause it allways died too easily (it's no more a doomblade!). And i like doing it wrong if that means playing like brian liu or the guy who played kiki pod finishing first to the ptq in Milan and many others like us i think it's just a different way to see the deck, for istance i like more the midrange deck, usually i don't win through combo until i am 99% sure, and to have that pertencuage i have to fight throught the midrange plan. For that reason i don't play chords (my most recent change) and trying Domri Rade (that acts as a removal and CA, after the winner of PTQ Milan i'm quite in doubt to remove them and put 3x Path to exile, faster and better removal)
I have gotten a lot of use out of Cunning Sparkmage. It is very good in the mirror and Melira match, since you can avoid killing your own guys. I've had the 1 toughness matter sometimes - it can't kill a Lavamancer and live, for example. And I've also faced down two Delver of Secrets pre-flip before, which was a nail-biter. But all in all, I like Sparkmage a whole lot more than I like Staticaster. That you can avoid killing your own guys is a pretty big deal.
thanks man for the feedback on that card, i like it a lot!i'm glad i bought it at 0,05 euro i like it also cause it can kill at istant speed 2 creatures with resto angel, a thing that fiend hunter can't do!
Sounds more than reasonable. Cutting from the chord slots? Maybe up the number of voices with the wolves hanging around. Master of the Wild Hunt is going really deep but sounds hilarious with black wolves
@Ardass
Reveillark is interesting. How does it normally work out for you? We're much higher on non-returnable cards than melira, would -1 finks +1 scooze make sense? Particularly if you're going the Domri route, scooze is probably the best "fighter" we have.
I disagree on chord, I think it's one of the most combo-centric options we have. Eternal Witness allows us to search out the combo off of one chord. Melira pod is better at interacting with the opponent but Kiki's main advantage (in my opinion) is being less predictable. Pod chains, Restoration Angel, Deceiver Exarch, Gavony and chord all add to the number of things our opponent needs to be considering. I think chord might be the most difficult card to use in the deck; I know I misplayed it several times this week at my LGS. That being said, if we don't need Wall of Roots for chord, what about Sylvan Caryatid?
1 Exarch and 1 Image is unusual. People tend to really like the chains and go for 2 exarch, 1 image or the brian liu camp with 1 exarch, 0 image and more dudes that turn sideways.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Winning list was by Conner Rice, and the rest of the top 8 lists can be seen here as well: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/khans-tarkir-ptq-wilmington-2014-07-10
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Wall of Roots
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Spellskite
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Deceiver Exarch
1 Fiend Hunter
3 Restoration Angel
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Stonehorn Dignitary
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Harmonic Sliver
3 Chord of Calling
Artifact (4)
4 Birthing Pod
Land (23)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Arid Mesa
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Gavony Township
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Copperline Gorge
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Path to Exile
3 Fiery Justice
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Does anyone have any thoughts on why this deck was able to take the victory?
This deck made a few card selections that seem unique to me, being
Stonehorn Dignitary in maindeck (I have never seen this card in a kiki list before)
Fauna Shaman in maindeck (I haven't seen this on a list here in a while. Is it good?)
Burrenton Forge-Tender in sideboard (someone mentioned a few posts back that this card can circumstantially be useful to Chord for in response to Anger of the Gods but probably not worth the spot)
What do you guys think about this list?