I tested a Twin Pod deck before Resto was printed and Twin was a fine card, but that deck also played 4 Exarch. If you are going to play Twin you have to up your Exarch count to at least 3, if not the full 4.
I am playing four Exarch. I think the card is undervalued by a lot of people. One doesn't feel like enough, as it's a key part of most Pod chains and drawing it can delay you by a turn. I like Twin over Chord because in fast matchups, the opponent won't have that much disruption, making Twin much better. Twin only feels a little worse, if worse at all, in slower matchups. Having access to more turn 3 wins doesn't hurt either. Incidentally, this makes silver bullets and therefore Chord less useful. Here's my current maindeck:
As you can see, the main is geared a little for the Twin plan, with the beatdown elements mostly gone. The miser's Finks is mostly just there as a 3-drop persist creature that gains life. The sideboard is just thrown together; it's a really rough draft without a sideboard plan. I have no idea if the Leylines are actually good or not, but they wreck 8Rack, Burn, Storm, and (to some degree) Jund and Melira Pod.
What do people think about Swan Song over Negate? Has anyone tested this?
I find it difficult to develop my board properly while at the same time holding up Negate. Especially since most of the "must count" targets chills on the stack within the first 2-3 turns (Pyromancer Asc, Anger of the Gods, Past in Flames, Khalni Heart Exp., Suppression Field etc.). Swan Song also makes it easier to fight over one of your key cards on the stack.
I realize that the bird token can actually be relevant against us as we're not a T3/T4 combo deck but then again I rarly board in Negate against decks that has a beat down plan. Decks that can use the token to support one of their game plans (like Delver and Twin). I mostly board it in against stuff like Tron, Storm, Ad Naseum, Scapeshift, Reanimator and Sphinx's Rev variants which are generally terrible at putting a 2/2 flier in to good use.
Biggest downside is that it doesn't stop Karn or O-Stone
Awesome report, thanks for the writeup. I myself am working toward getting a kiki pod list together and figured I would start with Brian's list. I have read his take on phantasmal image, and wanted to ask, did you ever use it for the 2-3 chain or use it at all? I'm curious with cards like those how to use them. especially since I have lost plenty of games to the beatdown of resto angels, I was thinking 4 would be good to consistently see, combo or not. Also what are your advice for me to play against blood moon? I don't want to auto lose to it
If you're going to play Twin, then why would you keep the sketchy manabase from Pod instead of going to the more consistent design being used by the dedicated Twin decks? That deck is already insanely consistent, so adding Pod actually accomplishes nothing. IMHO, Pod is awesome because it is flexible. You have better game against the field because you have the ability to tailor each game to match your opponent. It's challenging and takes a lot of practice to pilot properly, but it's also fragile. It autoloses to Blood Moon/Anger of the Gods.
I play both decks, and if I'm going to go heavy combo then I'm playing UR. Maybe, URW, but that's more grindy. Not being obnoxious...I just really don't understand why you would add Twin to the deck, especially at the cost of Chords, which are integral to the silver bullet nature of the deck.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
What do you guys think of Eidolon of Rhetoric as an Ethersworn Cannonist replacement? I think the fact that it is bolt and anger proof makes up for the fact that it costs one more.
What do you guys think of Eidolon of Rhetoric as an Aethersworn Cannonist replacement? I think the fact that it is bolt and anger proof makes up for the fact that it costs one more.
Canonist still has two things going for it: the fact that it costs 5 to chord into rather than 6, and the fact that you can pod a dork into it. I hope to test both, because both obviously have their merits, and it's tough to tell at this point.
If you're going to play Twin, then why would you keep the sketchy manabase from Pod instead of going to the more consistent design being used by the dedicated Twin decks? That deck is already insanely consistent, so adding Pod actually accomplishes nothing. IMHO, Pod is awesome because it is flexible. You have better game against the field because you have the ability to tailor each game to match your opponent. It's challenging and takes a lot of practice to pilot properly, but it's also fragile. It autoloses to Blood Moon/Anger of the Gods.
I play both decks, and if I'm going to go heavy combo then I'm playing UR. Maybe, URW, but that's more grindy. Not being obnoxious...I just really don't understand why you would add Twin to the deck, especially at the cost of Chords, which are integral to the silver bullet nature of the deck.
If I wanted to play Twin, I would have posted in the Twin thread. Playing Twin in Kiki Pod adds redundancy and speed. The deck gets considerably more T3 wins with Twin in the deck, and Chord isn't exactly a heavy price to pay, though I like it less than most. You also don't just lose to not drawing Pod. Adding Twin incidentally makes Kiki Pod a lot less weak to Blood Moon and Anger of the Gods, as you can sometimes race them, and in my list, you get to cut Voice and a Finks, both of which are weak to Anger, for more Exarchs, which die to a lot less spells than most creatures do. I also cut an Ooze for a Spellskite. So in short, adding Twin actually solves a lot of the deck's problems.
On another note, I recently saw someone piloting a list with a single copy of Grand Architect and it looked interesting, although maybe not like a good idea. Thoughts?
The problem with Twin, is that my making your deck more combo-esque, you lose your ability to have an effective midrange plan, which is the true reason Pod of all flavors is even viable.
As for the new True Believer, there is a reason we don't play True Believer. Against Storm, they will simply use their card selection to assemble their kill + a Bolt or something, and then kill you. The only reason we play Canonist is because not only does she prevent the Congo, but also stifles our opponents ability to dig for an answer.
Yeah, there's not much reason to play it at the moment. However, there are a few decks out there that it is quite good against (Gifts and 8rack come to mind) so in certain metas it might be worth an SB slot.
The problem with Twin, is that my making your deck more combo-esque, you lose your ability to have an effective midrange plan, which is the true reason Pod of all flavors is even viable.
As for the new True Believer, there is a reason we don't play True Believer. Against Storm, they will simply use their card selection to assemble their kill + a Bolt or something, and then kill you. The only reason we play Canonist is because not only does she prevent the Congo, but also stifles our opponents ability to dig for an answer.
But doesn't our midrange plan kind of suck? Anyway, in a Twin list, I might sideboard some Finks and maybe even a Voice or two in response to the hate coming in, since we don't really need an effective midrange plan G1 as much. Also, I agree on the new True Believer.
But doesn't our midrange plan kind of suck? Anyway, in a Twin list, I might sideboard some Finks and maybe even a Voice or two in response to the hate coming in, since we don't really need an effective midrange plan G1 as much. Also, I agree on the new True Believer.
Actually we have the same early plan as Melira Pod only with Restoration Angels to curve into, which helps a lot. Restoration Angel is great and I really like the card. I don't think going either the Akroma route or the Splinter Twin route is a good idea. It makes the deck less focused and we only have Exarch and Conscripts to combo with Splinter Twin since Restoration Angel won't work. I think Akroma isn't well suited for this meta. UW decks will counter, verdict or burn it. While almost every deck except hatebears will simply ignore it. It´s good when it works but even then you loose focus of what you want to do.
I agree with Aegis of the Gods not being good. Storm wil simply kill it before casting Grapeshot, Scapeshift has plenty of answers like Anger and Melira can simpy Redcap it before start shooting at your face.
I severely undervalued Chord. The deck is actually a lot worse without it. So in principle, the Twin list is good, but Twin and Chord have no business coexisting, and Chord is necessary. The Akroma list doesn't seem great; it seems too cute. Aegis is bad, but how about Leyline of Sanctity? It's not Podable, but it wrecks a bunch of different decks.
I really need your help. My meta is swarmed with Kikipod and I seem to have a really tough matchup against it with my 4C-Gifts.
That is why I wanted to ask you, which (sideboard) cards are really hosing your deck? What I have so far: Elesh Norn, Massacre Wurm, Zealous Persecution, Duress (post-board those Negates really hurt me), Negate, Path to Exile, Abrupt Decay, Linvala, Damnation, Supreme Verdict.
Also I feel like those hateenchantments/-artifacts are not effective, because they mean I'm down a card, tapped out turn 2 and just get beaten down. Or is a
resolved Torpor Orb really, really annoying for you?
Thank you for your help
Torpor Orb wrecks us. Ancient Grudge and Qasali Pridemage are the only answers we have, and Grudge isn't even a creature. Linvala is also reasonably good against us. I'm no expert, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but that's the impression I've gotten.
Torpor Orb is mostly annoying for me if I'm playing against aggro, since the Finks/Resto shenanigans that help me stay alive doesn't work. With Orb out, we can still search up Scavenging Ooze, Aven Mindcenor and Glen Elendra to stop your plan and just kill you with the beats.
Graffdigger's Cage into Gifts for Rites + Elesh Norn seems really good though. Cage doesn't stop the combo but it makes it really hard to get anything going (plus find an answer for your Gifts plan)
EDIT: oh wait. That doesn't work does it. Lol (Cage into Rites. Good one).
Damping Matrix could be decent though. Stops Pod (our best card) and Glen and Ooze (Which I can imagine hoses you) plus the combo
Landing an Elesh Norn is usually GG, especially if we can't find a Path for it. Massacre Wurm isn't nearly as good (can't keep guys from persisting), but if you need more answers I can see a reason to put it in. Grafdigger's Cage is fantastic as well, as is any library search hate (Mindcensor, Shadow of Doubt, and maybe one more so you can Gifts for three of them). Torpor Orb, Linvala, and Damping Matrix are all very annoying and stop the combo, but they wouldn't be enough by themselves. Also, anything that can stop our 3/x aggro plan is a good choice. Batterskull, Baneslayer, Resto's of your own, the pro-white Swords, etc. Just don't ever tap out for them :P.
Landing an Elesh Norn is usually GG, especially if we can't find a Path for it. Massacre Wurm isn't nearly as good (can't keep guys from persisting), but if you need more answers I can see a reason to put it in. Grafdigger's Cage is fantastic as well, as is any library search hate (Mindcensor, Shadow of Doubt, and maybe one more so you can Gifts for three of them). Torpor Orb, Linvala, and Damping Matrix are all very annoying and stop the combo, but they wouldn't be enough by themselves. Also, anything that can stop our 3/x aggro plan is a good choice. Batterskull, Baneslayer, Resto's of your own, the pro-white Swords, etc. Just don't ever tap out for them :P.
Funny I played against a Gifts deck recently....he landed Elesh...which board wiped me(except for rest/pod)...I topped an Ph. Image cast is coping Elesh...then podded Resto into Conscripts snagging Elesh and sacked it due to Legend rule..fun plays....but unique plays for sure.
Zealous Conscripts is my favorite card in the deck. Does so many silly things.
I had a game recently like the one Parasite mentioned where I podded into Conscripts to steal my opponents Linvala because I had mine out and could legend rule it. Felt good.
Another game I hard cast Conscripts to take my opponents Gideon Jura, animated it into a creature, and podded it into a Noble Hierarch to get the extra point of damage from exalted I needed for the win.
What are people's thoughts on a single copy of Strangleroot Geist over a second Voice? It's a decent beatdown dude, and you can win with just it and a Pod on board.
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BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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4 Arid Mesa
1 Breeding Pool
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
Creatures:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Deceiver Exarch
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Restoration Angel
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
3 Wall of Roots
1 Zealous Conscripts
4 Birthing Pod
4 Splinter Twin
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Negate
3 Path to Exile
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
As you can see, the main is geared a little for the Twin plan, with the beatdown elements mostly gone. The miser's Finks is mostly just there as a 3-drop persist creature that gains life. The sideboard is just thrown together; it's a really rough draft without a sideboard plan. I have no idea if the Leylines are actually good or not, but they wreck 8Rack, Burn, Storm, and (to some degree) Jund and Melira Pod.
I find it difficult to develop my board properly while at the same time holding up Negate. Especially since most of the "must count" targets chills on the stack within the first 2-3 turns (Pyromancer Asc, Anger of the Gods, Past in Flames, Khalni Heart Exp., Suppression Field etc.). Swan Song also makes it easier to fight over one of your key cards on the stack.
I realize that the bird token can actually be relevant against us as we're not a T3/T4 combo deck but then again I rarly board in Negate against decks that has a beat down plan. Decks that can use the token to support one of their game plans (like Delver and Twin). I mostly board it in against stuff like Tron, Storm, Ad Naseum, Scapeshift, Reanimator and Sphinx's Rev variants which are generally terrible at putting a 2/2 flier in to good use.
Biggest downside is that it doesn't stop Karn or O-Stone
I play both decks, and if I'm going to go heavy combo then I'm playing UR. Maybe, URW, but that's more grindy. Not being obnoxious...I just really don't understand why you would add Twin to the deck, especially at the cost of Chords, which are integral to the silver bullet nature of the deck.
Rest in peace my one true love: Kikipod
Yeah, dodging Bolt/Anger/Shatterstorm/Vandalblast/Ingot Chewer (vs. Living End) is huge.
Be careful with Pod chains into this Eidolon, though.
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
If I wanted to play Twin, I would have posted in the Twin thread. Playing Twin in Kiki Pod adds redundancy and speed. The deck gets considerably more T3 wins with Twin in the deck, and Chord isn't exactly a heavy price to pay, though I like it less than most. You also don't just lose to not drawing Pod. Adding Twin incidentally makes Kiki Pod a lot less weak to Blood Moon and Anger of the Gods, as you can sometimes race them, and in my list, you get to cut Voice and a Finks, both of which are weak to Anger, for more Exarchs, which die to a lot less spells than most creatures do. I also cut an Ooze for a Spellskite. So in short, adding Twin actually solves a lot of the deck's problems.
On another note, I recently saw someone piloting a list with a single copy of Grand Architect and it looked interesting, although maybe not like a good idea. Thoughts?
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
As for the new True Believer, there is a reason we don't play True Believer. Against Storm, they will simply use their card selection to assemble their kill + a Bolt or something, and then kill you. The only reason we play Canonist is because not only does she prevent the Congo, but also stifles our opponents ability to dig for an answer.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
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Also,
I laughed way too hard at this. From now on I'm going to refer to it as "Congoing off".
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
But doesn't our midrange plan kind of suck? Anyway, in a Twin list, I might sideboard some Finks and maybe even a Voice or two in response to the hate coming in, since we don't really need an effective midrange plan G1 as much. Also, I agree on the new True Believer.
I severely undervalued Chord. The deck is actually a lot worse without it. So in principle, the Twin list is good, but Twin and Chord have no business coexisting, and Chord is necessary. The Akroma list doesn't seem great; it seems too cute. Aegis is bad, but how about Leyline of Sanctity? It's not Podable, but it wrecks a bunch of different decks.
Torpor Orb wrecks us. Ancient Grudge and Qasali Pridemage are the only answers we have, and Grudge isn't even a creature. Linvala is also reasonably good against us. I'm no expert, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but that's the impression I've gotten.
Graffdigger's Cage into Gifts for Rites + Elesh Norn seems really good though. Cage doesn't stop the combo but it makes it really hard to get anything going (plus find an answer for your Gifts plan)
EDIT: oh wait. That doesn't work does it. Lol (Cage into Rites. Good one).
Damping Matrix could be decent though. Stops Pod (our best card) and Glen and Ooze (Which I can imagine hoses you) plus the combo
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
Funny I played against a Gifts deck recently....he landed Elesh...which board wiped me(except for rest/pod)...I topped an Ph. Image cast is coping Elesh...then podded Resto into Conscripts snagging Elesh and sacked it due to Legend rule..fun plays....but unique plays for sure.
I had a game recently like the one Parasite mentioned where I podded into Conscripts to steal my opponents Linvala because I had mine out and could legend rule it. Felt good.
Another game I hard cast Conscripts to take my opponents Gideon Jura, animated it into a creature, and podded it into a Noble Hierarch to get the extra point of damage from exalted I needed for the win.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor