I am more of a standard player but really like this deck. My LGS is getting a bit more into modern and I'd like to play this deck, but don't want to drop a ton of money on lands. I have all of the lands except the fetches (I own like 1 Marsh Flats lol). Would it be alright to play without those, or are they really needed? Since Deathrite Shaman is banned I'd imagine they aren't as needed (but still very good obviously).
Overall I don't want to drop to much money on the deck. I have most of the creatures. Whats the most essential stuff in the deck to really make it work overall? (eg a budget melira pod). This may not be the best place to discuss this but I figured I'd ask those who have experience with the deck itself.
If you don't have the fetches you need to change the deck a bit. I believe the primer lists a lot of cards we used to run, and doing some research for old decklists will help as well. Basically you need to focus primarily on GB and play white as only a minor splash (one or two cards with single W costs, at higher CMC like Sin Collector and Ranger of Eos). The current lists which use more white than black only work if you have the fetches. Instead of things like Linvala and Archangel of Thune MD you'll have to focus more on black cards like Entomber Exarch and Nekrataal. Or alternatively play more white than black, but that tends to come with the consequence of not having the ability to hardcast Murderous Redcap. Avacyn's Pilgrim provides white mana which helps a lot, but means Black is harder to play.
DRS mana fixing was never a big deal, the black was nice but it was primarily white you were after anyways which Noble covered. Fetchland mana fixing on the other hand matters a lot. It makes you take less damage and ensures you hit the colors you need. The stock lists are very color greedy needing T1 green/black and T3 WW/BB.
So how are we going to fit this BW God into the list? Athreos, God of Passage. Main deckable? Side board? I know he's going in the 75 somewhere for sure, he's just insane in the deck, I'm just not sure where.
What matchups do we want him in? Which ones don't we want him in? I think that'll help decide where he goes.
So how are we going to fit this BW God into the list? Athreos, God of Passage. Main deckable? Side board? I know he's going in the 75 somewhere for sure, he's just insane in the deck, I'm just not sure where.
What matchups do we want him in? Which ones don't we want him in? I think that'll help decide where he goes.
He's already been discussed a bit. The conclusion was more or less that he's not great for the deck: you will rarely have enough devotion to activate him, he can't be podded away if you don't have devotion, he's a dead draw when you're looking for creatures, the deck is already pretty resilient against sweepers except Anger of the Gods which he in no way helps, etc. He just doesn't seem to be a great fit based on initial testing.
What do we think of eidolon of rhetoric? 1 spell per turn would hamper our opponents far more than us.
Also, has anyone tried meddling mage? Blue make its hard to hardcast but potentially useful.
4 toughness doesn't seem worth the extra turn needed to chord it. It's also easier to pod 1-2 than 2-3 in most lists since there's usually more 1 drops.
No, he's actually not a worse Canonist because he playes around removal like Ancient Grudge, Anger of the Gods or Bolt. He stays in in the game for sure. 1 Mana more is a small downside but its not a big problem and he brings more resilency to the game which is great.
That may be true but the Eidolon is also a full turn slower. It can still be hardcast but the best use of this effect is off of a Chord as storm tries to cast Past in Flames. For 3 land and 2 creatures you can Chord Canonist which means you can leave your land/creatures up on turn 3 and have access to Chord to disrupt them. For Eidolon you can't do this until turn 4. If you're on the draw this makes all the difference in the world because they can storm on t4 before you have the resources to chord Eidolon. If you're using the 3 Chord/1 Canonist or Eidolon setup that means 75% of the time you'll be playing it off of Chord. The Eidolon only has an advantage when hardcast.
Turn 1 dork into t2 wall lets us have a chord for x=3 on t3 assuming we hit our land drops. I know it's like nutdraw-ish but definitely more likely for those lists running 2 WoR.
Chording for canonist is ideal but sometimes we don't have chord, sometimes we have to use our pod. That being said, canonist is still ideal since we have 6 2 drops to pod from, and 8 1 drops to pod from. So podding 1 > 2 is slightly easier than 2 > 3.
Turn 1 dork into t2 wall lets us have a chord for x=3 on t3 assuming we hit our land drops. I know it's like nutdraw-ish but definitely more likely for those lists running 2 WoR.
Chording for canonist is ideal but sometimes we don't have chord, sometimes we have to use our pod. That being said, canonist is still ideal since we have 6 2 drops to pod from, and 8 1 drops to pod from. So podding 1 > 2 is slightly easier than 2 > 3.
I can see arguments for both.
Eidolon seems better on the play, Canonist on the draw. The difference is Canonist on the play is still good where as Eidolon on the draw is terrible.
Right, I feel like cutting Canonist isn't even an option because you'll give away a non-zero number of games to Storm going off turn three on the play and absolutely hate yourself for playing law bear every time it happens. I already pretty much just mulligan to hit Canonist or bust since keeping a hand without it just means losing with more cards in hand.
Chord of Calling is a card that doesn't really have a great replacement right now in Modern. It is great for searching out silver bullets in matchups that have those sorts of things (ie. Kataki, Canonist, etc.) and finding the last piece of your combo. Being able to do it at instant speed in response to your opponent tapping out can be vital.
If you were to play without it, I would probably just add extra creatures to the deck (either more silver bullets, or just smoothing out the curve with more value creatures) rather than try to replace it, because I'm not so sure it has a suitable, or nearly suitable replacement.
I'm not confident about boarding in Thoughtseize against UWR Midrange--their cards are quite good against us, but they're very hard to hate out, games get grindy so they can run out of cards in hand, and they can put significant pressure on us (unlike UWR Control). I'd also rather leave in Redcap and maybe even Pontiff, as they snipe Tiago and V. Clique all day. Pulling Decay and Chord is probably the right call, though.
I don't agree with pulling Chord against Tarmo Twin--it can search for Linvala or Spellskite to keep them fair (and Linvala also turns off their Oozes). I'd probably pull only one combo against them just to keep them fair (and I'd rather pull the more expensive Archangel Spike one that they can viably disrupt with Exarchs and Cryptics alone). I'd rather not pull Redcap because it can kill Tiago and Pestermite (and the only combo they respect is infinite damage). I'd rather board fewer cards in--Sin Collector and Ooze look like the weakest links against Tarmo Twin, as they won't stop their unfair combo.
I hate boarding against Tarmo Twin, though--it's like the Pod mirror, except worse because they're not entirely hosed by Linvala.
You can't choose to Chord something to your hand, since that's not what the card says to do. I'm not sure why you would want to do this, exactly, but there's Congregation at Dawn and Fauna Shaman in Modern to get creatures into your hand. Fauna Shaman might not be such a bad budget replacement for Chord, since you retain a little of the surprise factor, she compliments Pod pretty well by being able to jump all over the chain by swapping one creature in hand for another, and she's a fairly-costed body otherwise.
A probably stupid question, how is this deck without Chord of Calling?
Can it use an instant that only brings the card to hand, not putting it in play immediately?
(I do appreciate the implications performance wise)
I ran the deck for the first time tonight and I'd like to point out I unfortunately didn't have any access to Chords, and I really wish I did. As a supplement, I played Green Sun's Zenith (obviously worse, but it worked for me). I was mostly able to combo out but the deck is pretty resilient to alot of decks. My LGS is also new to modern to a bunch of random decks, ended up not coming in first due to a very stupid T2 combo deck that forced you to copy things such as Pact of Negation and not allowing you to be able to pay for it. Lol.
I ran the deck for the first time tonight and I'd like to point out I unfortunately didn't have any access to Chords, and I really wish I did. As a supplement, I played Green Sun's Zenith (obviously worse, but it worked for me). I was mostly able to combo out but the deck is pretty resilient to alot of decks. My LGS is also new to modern to a bunch of random decks, ended up not coming in first due to a very stupid T2 combo deck that forced you to copy things such as Pact of Negation and not allowing you to be able to pay for it. Lol.
How casual is your LGS? Green Sun's Zenith is banned in Modern (maybe I should put in a list of Banned But Historically Good cards in the primer for some insight into building Melira Pod).
Chord of calling is pivotal in the matchups where you need silver bullets.
One example: opponent playing ad nauseam deck, goes for it T3. Does the whole thing, I chord for Burrenton and steal the game...
Against UWR midrange, your sideboard plan should vary depending on what you think your opponent's game plan will be postboard. Sometimes it's correct to bring in discard, sometimes it's valid to bring in removal. Thoughtseize is questionable, as life total tends to actually matter in the matchup. They can (and do) get very aggressive very quickly. Siding out chords is correct though.
I'm very lenient to side out archangel against pretty much anything. In most board states it presents 2 turn clock. Nothing to sneeze at.
Anyone got a positive matchup against affinity? I'm like 6-2 against it, can't seem to find reliable way of beating it.
I ran the deck for the first time tonight and I'd like to point out I unfortunately didn't have any access to Chords, and I really wish I did. As a supplement, I played Green Sun's Zenith (obviously worse, but it worked for me). I was mostly able to combo out but the deck is pretty resilient to alot of decks. My LGS is also new to modern to a bunch of random decks, ended up not coming in first due to a very stupid T2 combo deck that forced you to copy things such as Pact of Negation and not allowing you to be able to pay for it. Lol.
How casual is your LGS? Green Sun's Zenith is banned in Modern (maybe I should put in a list of Banned But Historically Good cards in the primer for some insight into building Melira Pod).
LOL really? Well damn, I'm retarded. Our LGS is pretty casual when it comes to modern, since we only do it once a month, but standard not so much. I'll keep that in mind, thank you for letting me know.
The deck he was playing was indeed the deck with Primeval Titan.
I have a question about Polukranos; namely, how good is this guy? I find I get a lot of value out of Orzhov Pontiff in taking out weenies, does Polukranos perform similarly? I'm thinking of dropping Varolz and going down to two sac oulets, as I can't remember the last time I combo'd out using him and I don't think I've ever scavenged anything, to make room for a different mana sink/beater.
I have a question about Polukranos; namely, how good is this guy? I find I get a lot of value out of Orzhov Pontiff in taking out weenies, does Polukranos perform similarly? I'm thinking of dropping Varolz and going down to two sac oulets, as I can't remember the last time I combo'd out using him and I don't think I've ever scavenged anything, to make room for a different mana sink/beater.
Pontiff is good because he can easily be 3 for 1 as early as t3 and then threatens to do something very nasty with haunt shenanigans. You won't ever be monstrousing Polu for more than 1 the turn you land him and very rarely for 3 or more later in the game. 5/5 body is tempting, but remember he's not evasive and not protected, so chances are, he'll just cost you bunch of mana and eat random removal.
Polukranos is good in deck that can abuse it's monstrous ability by pumping A LOT of mana to it or a green midrange deck. We're neither.
I have a question about Polukranos; namely, how good is this guy? I find I get a lot of value out of Orzhov Pontiff in taking out weenies, does Polukranos perform similarly? I'm thinking of dropping Varolz and going down to two sac oulets, as I can't remember the last time I combo'd out using him and I don't think I've ever scavenged anything, to make room for a different mana sink/beater.
Pontiff is good because he can easily be 3 for 1 as early as t3 and then threatens to do something very nasty with haunt shenanigans. You won't ever be monstrousing Polu for more than 1 the turn you land him and very rarely for 3 or more later in the game. 5/5 body is tempting, but remember he's not evasive and not protected, so chances are, he'll just cost you bunch of mana and eat random removal.
Polukranos is good in deck that can abuse it's monstrous ability by pumping A LOT of mana to it or a green midrange deck. We're neither.
Sadly, I've accepted that killing anything with him is just going to be bonus value, and I won't be able to Forked Bolt tokens in practice (I'm more likely to Forked Bolt Affinity's stuff) or nail Pestermites that are about to combo off, but he's been surprisingly good for me against unexpected decks like Zoo and Scapeshift. Sometimes, all I need is a 5/5 that's bigger than Goyf and doesn't die to Firespout, especially when it comes down on Turn 3.
Killing Bob is pretty nice, and so was killing Deathrite Shaman back in the day. (Killing Sakura-Tribe Elder and Tiago can also be clutch.)
I'm uncomfortable with maindeck Orzhov Pontiff because he doesn't tend to kill more than one guy at a time, I tend to jump through a lot of hoops for him to inflict -2/-2 (usually involves saccing it and one of my other guys on the same turn), and the temporary anthem has been pretty useless for me.
I'm uncomfortable with maindeck Orzhov Pontiff because he doesn't tend to kill more than one guy at a time, I tend to jump through a lot of hoops for him to inflict -2/-2 (usually involves saccing it and one of my other guys on the same turn), and the temporary anthem has been pretty useless for me.
Bit surprised about this, Pontiff's been an MVP for me; maybe it's my meta where he has more X/1s to knock off (Affinity, B/W Tokens, Bogle, Fae, as well as decks with Bob & Snappy). He is very all-or-nothing, I'll concede to that, since the matches where he isn't an all-star he's near useless.
If you don't have the fetches you need to change the deck a bit. I believe the primer lists a lot of cards we used to run, and doing some research for old decklists will help as well. Basically you need to focus primarily on GB and play white as only a minor splash (one or two cards with single W costs, at higher CMC like Sin Collector and Ranger of Eos). The current lists which use more white than black only work if you have the fetches. Instead of things like Linvala and Archangel of Thune MD you'll have to focus more on black cards like Entomber Exarch and Nekrataal. Or alternatively play more white than black, but that tends to come with the consequence of not having the ability to hardcast Murderous Redcap. Avacyn's Pilgrim provides white mana which helps a lot, but means Black is harder to play.
DRS mana fixing was never a big deal, the black was nice but it was primarily white you were after anyways which Noble covered. Fetchland mana fixing on the other hand matters a lot. It makes you take less damage and ensures you hit the colors you need. The stock lists are very color greedy needing T1 green/black and T3 WW/BB.
Melira Pod - Modern
What matchups do we want him in? Which ones don't we want him in? I think that'll help decide where he goes.
He's already been discussed a bit. The conclusion was more or less that he's not great for the deck: you will rarely have enough devotion to activate him, he can't be podded away if you don't have devotion, he's a dead draw when you're looking for creatures, the deck is already pretty resilient against sweepers except Anger of the Gods which he in no way helps, etc. He just doesn't seem to be a great fit based on initial testing.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
That may be true but the Eidolon is also a full turn slower. It can still be hardcast but the best use of this effect is off of a Chord as storm tries to cast Past in Flames. For 3 land and 2 creatures you can Chord Canonist which means you can leave your land/creatures up on turn 3 and have access to Chord to disrupt them. For Eidolon you can't do this until turn 4. If you're on the draw this makes all the difference in the world because they can storm on t4 before you have the resources to chord Eidolon. If you're using the 3 Chord/1 Canonist or Eidolon setup that means 75% of the time you'll be playing it off of Chord. The Eidolon only has an advantage when hardcast.
Chording for canonist is ideal but sometimes we don't have chord, sometimes we have to use our pod. That being said, canonist is still ideal since we have 6 2 drops to pod from, and 8 1 drops to pod from. So podding 1 > 2 is slightly easier than 2 > 3.
I can see arguments for both.
Eidolon seems better on the play, Canonist on the draw. The difference is Canonist on the play is still good where as Eidolon on the draw is terrible.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Can it use an instant that only brings the card to hand, not putting it in play immediately?
(I do appreciate the implications performance wise)
If you were to play without it, I would probably just add extra creatures to the deck (either more silver bullets, or just smoothing out the curve with more value creatures) rather than try to replace it, because I'm not so sure it has a suitable, or nearly suitable replacement.
I don't agree with pulling Chord against Tarmo Twin--it can search for Linvala or Spellskite to keep them fair (and Linvala also turns off their Oozes). I'd probably pull only one combo against them just to keep them fair (and I'd rather pull the more expensive Archangel Spike one that they can viably disrupt with Exarchs and Cryptics alone). I'd rather not pull Redcap because it can kill Tiago and Pestermite (and the only combo they respect is infinite damage). I'd rather board fewer cards in--Sin Collector and Ooze look like the weakest links against Tarmo Twin, as they won't stop their unfair combo.
I hate boarding against Tarmo Twin, though--it's like the Pod mirror, except worse because they're not entirely hosed by Linvala.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
I ran the deck for the first time tonight and I'd like to point out I unfortunately didn't have any access to Chords, and I really wish I did. As a supplement, I played Green Sun's Zenith (obviously worse, but it worked for me). I was mostly able to combo out but the deck is pretty resilient to alot of decks. My LGS is also new to modern to a bunch of random decks, ended up not coming in first due to a very stupid T2 combo deck that forced you to copy things such as Pact of Negation and not allowing you to be able to pay for it. Lol.
Melira Pod - Modern
How casual is your LGS? Green Sun's Zenith is banned in Modern (maybe I should put in a list of Banned But Historically Good cards in the primer for some insight into building Melira Pod).
Also, was the combo deck pure UR Hive Mind or that Amulet Karoo Summer Bloom Primeval Titan Hive Mind deck?
One example: opponent playing ad nauseam deck, goes for it T3. Does the whole thing, I chord for Burrenton and steal the game...
Against UWR midrange, your sideboard plan should vary depending on what you think your opponent's game plan will be postboard. Sometimes it's correct to bring in discard, sometimes it's valid to bring in removal. Thoughtseize is questionable, as life total tends to actually matter in the matchup. They can (and do) get very aggressive very quickly. Siding out chords is correct though.
I'm very lenient to side out archangel against pretty much anything. In most board states it presents 2 turn clock. Nothing to sneeze at.
Anyone got a positive matchup against affinity? I'm like 6-2 against it, can't seem to find reliable way of beating it.
LOL really? Well damn, I'm retarded. Our LGS is pretty casual when it comes to modern, since we only do it once a month, but standard not so much. I'll keep that in mind, thank you for letting me know.
The deck he was playing was indeed the deck with Primeval Titan.
Melira Pod - Modern
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Pontiff is good because he can easily be 3 for 1 as early as t3 and then threatens to do something very nasty with haunt shenanigans. You won't ever be monstrousing Polu for more than 1 the turn you land him and very rarely for 3 or more later in the game. 5/5 body is tempting, but remember he's not evasive and not protected, so chances are, he'll just cost you bunch of mana and eat random removal.
Polukranos is good in deck that can abuse it's monstrous ability by pumping A LOT of mana to it or a green midrange deck. We're neither.
I've found Polukranos, World Eater to be surprisingly good--I've cut a variety of testing cards like Courser of Kruphix, Nykthos, and Athreos over him.
Sadly, I've accepted that killing anything with him is just going to be bonus value, and I won't be able to Forked Bolt tokens in practice (I'm more likely to Forked Bolt Affinity's stuff) or nail Pestermites that are about to combo off, but he's been surprisingly good for me against unexpected decks like Zoo and Scapeshift. Sometimes, all I need is a 5/5 that's bigger than Goyf and doesn't die to Firespout, especially when it comes down on Turn 3.
Killing Bob is pretty nice, and so was killing Deathrite Shaman back in the day. (Killing Sakura-Tribe Elder and Tiago can also be clutch.)
I'm uncomfortable with maindeck Orzhov Pontiff because he doesn't tend to kill more than one guy at a time, I tend to jump through a lot of hoops for him to inflict -2/-2 (usually involves saccing it and one of my other guys on the same turn), and the temporary anthem has been pretty useless for me.
Bit surprised about this, Pontiff's been an MVP for me; maybe it's my meta where he has more X/1s to knock off (Affinity, B/W Tokens, Bogle, Fae, as well as decks with Bob & Snappy). He is very all-or-nothing, I'll concede to that, since the matches where he isn't an all-star he's near useless.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.