I posted that a few weeks ago and it looks like I got my wish last night. Windswept Heath being reprinted in Khans and therefore being Modern legal means that we can finally stop using Misty Rainforests or Marsh Flats and finally have perfect mana. Happy day!
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Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy:UR Sneak and Show IUBG Team America IX Metalworker MUD Modern:UBR Blue Jund IWBX Eldrazi Processors IX Affinity IWRG Nacatl Burn IGR Tron IUBR Grishoalbrand
So now we can run 4x Verdant 4x Windswept do you thick about running a Basic Plains now that the Mana is better and we can fetch it easier thinking 2x forest 1x Swamp x Plains. It would be a total of 5 lands that do not produce Green Mana. But gives you the option to play around Blood Moon more and maybe take a little less damage of shock when that matters.
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Modern GBRJund GBW Junk GBWMelira Pod GB Rock GRTron URStorm UR Delver URTwin RUG Twin UWR Twin UWRKiki Control UWR Control UWR Midrange URWBAffinity GRW Zoo RBurn
Blood Moon's not that good against a deck with so many mana dorks. From what I understand, it's not standard operating procedure to bring it in out of the board to deal with Pod, but you'll probably still run up against it anyway since there's decks that have it main. A basic Plains has always been good to have ever since Voice was a concrete part of the deck, anyway.
Now I have to rethink my entire manabase if I want to keep splashing for U and R. I just had it worked out fine without allied fetches, too. #firstworldproblems
What are you playing against where Scavenging Ooze isn't enough graveyard hate? I'm curious.
It's not that Ooze is poor but everyone has a plan to beat it, just like how GY decks had a plan to beat DRS. I like having a back up out of the board that I can use in addition to the Ooze for that reason. I also like having them at different CMC's for Pod purposes, I'm a big fan of having lots of similar but different cards so that they can all cover each others weaknesses without detracting from consistency. I do it in virtually any deck I play (for example 1 Doom Blade, 1 Go for the Throat, 1 Ultimate Price, 1 Terror vs 4 Go for the Throat). I do the same thing with my sac outlets having Cartel Aristocrat and Viscera Seer, I used to run Blasting Station as well but found I needed to cut it if I wanted to run Gitaxian Probe which is something I've been playing with for about the past 6 weeks now, it's certainly not a mainstream choice but I've been liking it depending on the meta that day.
But back to the point, being able to attack the GY from multiple angles is great. I'll end up picking up the suggested Loaming Shaman whenever I next order cards but in theory it seems really good. Ooze will be capable of spot removal at 2 CMC and plays well with our recursion while Loaming Shaman functions as mass removal and plays well with Restoration Angel. The shuffle in also has some potential ability to turn on our Pods if the opponent kills the creature we want to tutor for or perhaps if they're on mill. I don't expect those modes to come up often but having some interaction in that situation is nice.
Ok this is a little bit late, but:
I get that you want more sb cards to put in against graveyard decks, and I understand you want to diversify your options. My question was, what decks are you playing against where you're saying 'I really need more graveyard hate here'? Yes obviously pod and Snapcaster Mage decks use the graveyard, but Loaming Shaman is not as effective there as other cards you could be playing. Do you play against Living End/Gifts/Storm a lot?
Ok this is a little bit late, but:
I get that you want more sb cards to put in against graveyard decks, and I understand you want to diversify your options. My question was, what decks are you playing against where you're saying 'I really need more graveyard hate here'? Yes obviously pod and Snapcaster Mage decks use the graveyard, but Loaming Shaman is not as effective there as other cards you could be playing. Do you play against Living End/Gifts/Storm a lot?
I would say 1 in 7 rounds or so is against a GY deck. Vengevine, Gifts, Living End, lower tier things... lots of decks. I don't really count Storm here because you need the GY hate at instant.
I've been thinking about this, I think I may still want a few Marsh Flats. The advantage is finding both non Forest basics. I think my ideal setup would be 8 sources of green 6 white, 6 black which would mean 4 Catacomb/4 Windswept Heath/2 Marsh Flats. Maybe that's too many fetches though. It's definitely something that needs to be tested.
That's 17 green, 14 black, and 14 white. All enter untapped. I went up an additional basic and 2 total fetchable lands since the fetch count also went up.
So Ive been having a tough time vs mirran crusader lately what creature beats him? or what card ect ideas?
Path straigh up kills him. RestoAngel, Archangel, Linvala, Reveillark, all of them trade with him in combat. Lingering Souls can buy some time. If he's a big part of your meta, have 3-4 Path in your sideboard.
So Ive been having a tough time vs mirran crusader lately what creature beats him? or what card ect ideas?
I've had trouble with Crusader too, what I generally do is ignore him and attempt to beat the cards that pump him. As a 2/2 double strike that isn't swinging until turn 4 he's unlikely to kill you on his own before turn 6 which isn't that tough to race. If you can do something about Swords, Honor of the Pure, etc he's a good deal less scary.
Hi guys! I want to build melira pod. What to you guys is the ideal list and why? What is the new manabase going to look like for you guys? What are your guy' opinion on resto vs metamorph? In testing online, resto kitchen finks army is nice to me. My meta is combo and midrange,
true although I play vs tokens which can chump block all day long my bud just threw 4 of them in there to beat me. he also put 2 stony 2 torpor orb and 2 disenchants in the sideboard to beat me. So ive got 2 pontifs in my 75 and am thinking of 4 abrupt decays in my 75 and maybe 2 path? or 3 abrupts and 3 paths? Ive also been thinking of running fiend hunter in the side to grab vs mirran but idk
true although I play vs tokens which can chump block all day long my bud just threw 4 of them in there to beat me. he also put 2 stony 2 torpor orb and 2 disenchants in the sideboard to beat me. So ive got 2 pontifs in my 75 and am thinking of 4 abrupt decays in my 75 and maybe 2 path? or 3 abrupts and 3 paths? Ive also been thinking of running fiend hunter in the side to grab vs mirran but idk
You can also up the Thoughtseizes and try to rip it before it lands. Between discard, Path, and just racing, you should be able to get there. If you just want to beat THIS deck, I'd go 3 AD and 3 Path. If this is just one deck in your meta, I've been running 4 Abrupt Decays for a while.
Hi guys! I want to build melira pod. What to you guys is the ideal list and why? What is the new manabase going to look like for you guys? What are your guy' opinion on resto vs metamorph? In testing online, resto kitchen finks army is nice to me. My meta is combo and midrange,
There's not really a single best list. It's very meta dependent. If you want a stock list you could use LSV's, Sam Pardee's, Jacob Wilsons, or Josh McClains. Usually though there's a lot of tuning for a particular meta and there's a lot of room for experimentation. The deck is capable of so many powerful lines it comes down to which lines you want to use and there's not really a better or worse. It's no coincidence that virtually everyone who has been playing the deck for a long time has a different list and the deck is such that changing a single card can totally change your approach.
If combo is a big part of your meta you want to have a lot of interaction like Thoughtseize, Sin Collector, Entomber Exarch, and ways to retrigger them. Things like storm hate are nice too but those are your general ways to disrupt combo. Of the stock lists LSV's plays best against a combo/midrange meta in my opinion but it's also weakest to aggro.
I don't think there's any question between Restoration Angel and Metamorph, Metamorph is more in competition with Ranger of Eos or Entomber Exarch for a slot. I've been using the Restoration Angel for awhile now (since LSV reminded us all how good it is basically) and have always been impressed by it. Metamorph has pretty consistently stayed as my 76th card ever since the legend rule change.
I posted a possible stock manabase above with allied fetches but I'm not all in on it yet. I think there's merit to the idea of exploring 10 fetches but 8 may still be the stronger approach. Windswept Heath certainly has a slot though, I don't think anyone can deny that.
The new manabase doesn't change all that much, does it? It's still going to be something like 8x fetches, 5~x shocks, 3x Township, 4~x basics, 3x other. Although maybe you get a lot more freedom with what those other slots are; they don't have to be Razorverge Thicket any more.
The new manabase doesn't change all that much, does it? It's still going to be something like 8x fetches, 5~x shocks, 3x Township, 4~x basics, 3x other. Although maybe you get a lot more freedom with what those other slots are; they don't have to be Razorverge Thicket any more.
It changes in that we now likely want more than 8 fetches, which means the number of fetchable lands also probably needs to increase and that we have more room for basics. What I'm going to test to start (proxy, I wont have Windswept for a bit) is:
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
3 Gavony Township
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
The current stock lists are along the lines of 16 green (15 T1), 14 black (13 t1), 14 white. The difference seems minor but it's another 2 green sources total, an additional basic, 2 more lands that can be fetched, and no lands that CIPT on T1.
There's arguments for sticking with 8 fetches too, maybe that's the way to go... not sure.
Not a fan of the Razorverge Thickets and I think you want more than 8 fetches with 4 colors.
Creature wise I don't like Master Biomancer, stack operations just don't happen in the right order for it. I think you're on the right track with the shockland selection running 6 1 of's, but I would probably reduce it to 5 after a bit of thought involving figuring out which land can be cut. I'm of the opinion that Watery Grave is our best blue shock.
Vendilion Clique seems a little too greedy with your current manabase with only 11 blue sources not counting creatures. I realize this deck can play cards that it can't usually cast, but it's something I try to stay away from. Because of this I would want 17 blue for Clique. Then again that's just my opinion, there's plenty who advocate cards like Realm Razor and it works for those people. My starting point with blue is something like this I think:
That gets the blue count higher without giving up your green/white/black but you do lose a lot of basics, it's still not enough for my tastes to comfortably play Clique but it would be capable of playing Venser or hardcasting Glen Elendra while holding up a blue. The total damage of this manabase is 24 compared with my new test manabase (or the current stock manabase) which is 16, or yours which splits the difference at 20. So you're looking at giving up 50% more life to your mana. That's probably another 2 points per game. It could be doable, I do believe we have a little bit of life left to play around with but I would want to have the playset of Finks to do so.
The biggest challenge comes in just not losing to Blood Moon. I think the key to playing 4 colors is in figuring out how to beat Blood Moon with only a single basic Forest in the deck. Such a plan probably involves MB Pridemage/Reclamation Sage and a bunch of Chords.
This seems not quite right. Firstly, you have 10 fetches and only 10 fetchable lands. While the symmetry is fine, it's likely better to cut the Marsh Flats in favour of something like 2 Razorverge Thicket.
Most Angel Pod lists seem to be running straight up 4 Razorverge and it seems to be working. IMHO, we should be looking at fetches and shocks just for mana fixing.
This deck is already pretty fast and loose with the life totals. The post-board T1 fetch, shock, thoughtseize is sometimes a little crazy.
I posted that a few weeks ago and it looks like I got my wish last night. Windswept Heath being reprinted in Khans and therefore being Modern legal means that we can finally stop using Misty Rainforests or Marsh Flats and finally have perfect mana. Happy day!
Special thanks to Hakai Studios and SushiOtter for the sig!
Legacy: UR Sneak and Show I UBG Team America I X Metalworker MUD
Modern: UBR Blue Jund I WBX Eldrazi Processors I X Affinity I WRG Nacatl Burn I GR Tron I UBR Grishoalbrand
Decks:
Standard:
Nope
Modern:
Mono-Green Nykthos
Gifts Tron
Melira Pod
Legacy:
Maverick (retired)
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
GBW Melira Pod
GB Rock
GR Tron
UR Storm
UR Delver
UR Twin
RUG Twin
UWR Twin
UWR Kiki Control
UWR Control
UWR Midrange
URWB Affinity
GRW Zoo
R Burn
Now I have to rethink my entire manabase if I want to keep splashing for U and R. I just had it worked out fine without allied fetches, too. #firstworldproblems
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Ok this is a little bit late, but:
I get that you want more sb cards to put in against graveyard decks, and I understand you want to diversify your options. My question was, what decks are you playing against where you're saying 'I really need more graveyard hate here'? Yes obviously pod and Snapcaster Mage decks use the graveyard, but Loaming Shaman is not as effective there as other cards you could be playing. Do you play against Living End/Gifts/Storm a lot?
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
I would say 1 in 7 rounds or so is against a GY deck. Vengevine, Gifts, Living End, lower tier things... lots of decks. I don't really count Storm here because you need the GY hate at instant.
GWUB 4C Gifts Control
Commander:
GWU Derevi
BGW Ghave
BUG Muldrotha
Tiny Leaders:
BGW Doran
BGU Leovold
I've been thinking about this, I think I may still want a few Marsh Flats. The advantage is finding both non Forest basics. I think my ideal setup would be 8 sources of green 6 white, 6 black which would mean 4 Catacomb/4 Windswept Heath/2 Marsh Flats. Maybe that's too many fetches though. It's definitely something that needs to be tested.
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
3 Gavony Township
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
That's 17 green, 14 black, and 14 white. All enter untapped. I went up an additional basic and 2 total fetchable lands since the fetch count also went up.
decks playing:
none
Path straigh up kills him. RestoAngel, Archangel, Linvala, Reveillark, all of them trade with him in combat. Lingering Souls can buy some time. If he's a big part of your meta, have 3-4 Path in your sideboard.
I've had trouble with Crusader too, what I generally do is ignore him and attempt to beat the cards that pump him. As a 2/2 double strike that isn't swinging until turn 4 he's unlikely to kill you on his own before turn 6 which isn't that tough to race. If you can do something about Swords, Honor of the Pure, etc he's a good deal less scary.
decks playing:
none
decks playing:
none
You can also up the Thoughtseizes and try to rip it before it lands. Between discard, Path, and just racing, you should be able to get there. If you just want to beat THIS deck, I'd go 3 AD and 3 Path. If this is just one deck in your meta, I've been running 4 Abrupt Decays for a while.
There's not really a single best list. It's very meta dependent. If you want a stock list you could use LSV's, Sam Pardee's, Jacob Wilsons, or Josh McClains. Usually though there's a lot of tuning for a particular meta and there's a lot of room for experimentation. The deck is capable of so many powerful lines it comes down to which lines you want to use and there's not really a better or worse. It's no coincidence that virtually everyone who has been playing the deck for a long time has a different list and the deck is such that changing a single card can totally change your approach.
If combo is a big part of your meta you want to have a lot of interaction like Thoughtseize, Sin Collector, Entomber Exarch, and ways to retrigger them. Things like storm hate are nice too but those are your general ways to disrupt combo. Of the stock lists LSV's plays best against a combo/midrange meta in my opinion but it's also weakest to aggro.
I don't think there's any question between Restoration Angel and Metamorph, Metamorph is more in competition with Ranger of Eos or Entomber Exarch for a slot. I've been using the Restoration Angel for awhile now (since LSV reminded us all how good it is basically) and have always been impressed by it. Metamorph has pretty consistently stayed as my 76th card ever since the legend rule change.
I posted a possible stock manabase above with allied fetches but I'm not all in on it yet. I think there's merit to the idea of exploring 10 fetches but 8 may still be the stronger approach. Windswept Heath certainly has a slot though, I don't think anyone can deny that.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
It changes in that we now likely want more than 8 fetches, which means the number of fetchable lands also probably needs to increase and that we have more room for basics. What I'm going to test to start (proxy, I wont have Windswept for a bit) is:
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
3 Gavony Township
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
The current stock lists are along the lines of 16 green (15 T1), 14 black (13 t1), 14 white. The difference seems minor but it's another 2 green sources total, an additional basic, 2 more lands that can be fetched, and no lands that CIPT on T1.
There's arguments for sticking with 8 fetches too, maybe that's the way to go... not sure.
Creature wise I don't like Master Biomancer, stack operations just don't happen in the right order for it. I think you're on the right track with the shockland selection running 6 1 of's, but I would probably reduce it to 5 after a bit of thought involving figuring out which land can be cut. I'm of the opinion that Watery Grave is our best blue shock.
Vendilion Clique seems a little too greedy with your current manabase with only 11 blue sources not counting creatures. I realize this deck can play cards that it can't usually cast, but it's something I try to stay away from. Because of this I would want 17 blue for Clique. Then again that's just my opinion, there's plenty who advocate cards like Realm Razor and it works for those people. My starting point with blue is something like this I think:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Gavony Township
1 Forest
1 Swamp
That gets the blue count higher without giving up your green/white/black but you do lose a lot of basics, it's still not enough for my tastes to comfortably play Clique but it would be capable of playing Venser or hardcasting Glen Elendra while holding up a blue. The total damage of this manabase is 24 compared with my new test manabase (or the current stock manabase) which is 16, or yours which splits the difference at 20. So you're looking at giving up 50% more life to your mana. That's probably another 2 points per game. It could be doable, I do believe we have a little bit of life left to play around with but I would want to have the playset of Finks to do so.
The biggest challenge comes in just not losing to Blood Moon. I think the key to playing 4 colors is in figuring out how to beat Blood Moon with only a single basic Forest in the deck. Such a plan probably involves MB Pridemage/Reclamation Sage and a bunch of Chords.
This seems not quite right. Firstly, you have 10 fetches and only 10 fetchable lands. While the symmetry is fine, it's likely better to cut the Marsh Flats in favour of something like 2 Razorverge Thicket.
Most Angel Pod lists seem to be running straight up 4 Razorverge and it seems to be working. IMHO, we should be looking at fetches and shocks just for mana fixing.
This deck is already pretty fast and loose with the life totals. The post-board T1 fetch, shock, thoughtseize is sometimes a little crazy.
Looking at the Mana Base I'm leaning towards:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
3 Gavony Township
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Total = 23 Lands.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R