There's already numerous brew of BUG color pair, and nothing yet consistent enough to break the modern scene. And then, after reading this article in channel fireball by Caleb Dunward, I feel a bit interested in making a modern BUG.
Btw, Caleb make a midrange version of BUG, but after I tried it, it doesn't quite fit my play style, so I tweaked it into a more controlish one.
Without a further ado, this is the list.
This one is the version which I am testing currently :
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Do you play Scavenging Ooze over Tarmogoyfs for budget reasons or to counter potential opponent delve cards?
it's not for budget reason. it's mainly because I need my creature to be more than a vanilla. And since I'm leaning toward control, I don't really need to beat down at early turns. scooze is there to counter any GY strategy out there. and tasigur is a bit like goyf, with advantage for being immune to decay.
i love goyf, but i think this is not a right shell for him.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
I'm working on my own list which is quite similar to yours. However, I really dislike Ashiok. The problem is that he/she/it has no effect on the board the turn you play it. In fact, possibly no effect the turn after either. There are too many cases, in my mind, where realistically every effect is simply not very good. Sure, unanswered I guess you could steal a whole bunch of creatures, but that seems so random and improbable.
Out of the sideboard, Algae seems incredibly slow in the matchup you most want it in, Tron. It sure is a neat interaction with Urborg, but I think it's just not reliable enough. I'd rather board 2 Distainful Stroke, which has also seemed good versus Scapeshift.
Other than that, I don't quite understand Flooded Grove. You don't have any UU, GG, or UG spells. I think either Twilight Mire or Sunken Ruins would be much better, since BG and UB can help cast your spells.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I gotta ask, what do you feel the advantages are for BUG over say UWR or Esper?
I am not trying to knock you or the deck, I am just trying to get the thought process.
The knock against Esper is that the removal doesnt work as a win-con, which affects this deck but you lose the universal (and arguably best non-damage removal in the format Path) but not going white.
Is Thrag, Decay and Ooze really worth giving up what those other decks offer?
I think if you go the control route you need less creatures and more planeswalkers/manlands.
Also more creatures resilient to removal and two real sweepers.
I'm working on my own list which is quite similar to yours. However, I really dislike Ashiok. The problem is that he/she/it has no effect on the board the turn you play it. In fact, possibly no effect the turn after either. There are too many cases, in my mind, where realistically every effect is simply not very good. Sure, unanswered I guess you could steal a whole bunch of creatures, but that seems so random and improbable.
Out of the sideboard, Algae seems incredibly slow in the matchup you most want it in, Tron. It sure is a neat interaction with Urborg, but I think it's just not reliable enough. I'd rather board 2 Distainful Stroke, which has also seemed good versus Scapeshift.
Other than that, I don't quite understand Flooded Grove. You don't have any UU, GG, or UG spells. I think either Twilight Mire or Sunken Ruins would be much better, since BG and UB can help cast your spells.
agreed on ashiok, however the testing list is kinda outdated. i also make a slight tweak on the current list. please check it out.
I gotta ask, what do you feel the advantages are for BUG over say UWR or Esper?
I am not trying to knock you or the deck, I am just trying to get the thought process.
The knock against Esper is that the removal doesnt work as a win-con, which affects this deck but you lose the universal (and arguably best non-damage removal in the format Path) but not going white.
Is Thrag, Decay and Ooze really worth giving up what those other decks offer?
that's indeed the question here. honestly, I never thought to compare these decks. What I thought initially, I wanna combine the quality spell of BG decks with blue permission and mainly snapcaster mage. but, actually, as a former uwr control player, these are several advantages for being "green".
1. Abrupt decay : This actually solves a lot of problem which esper and uwr originally has problem with. Uncounterability and versatility is the selling point here. There's no other removal in esper (or even uwr) which is better than this at handling less than 3 cmc permanents. And if you compare it to path, in nowadays meta, I honestly prefer decay. So, the most interesting part for me for being BUG actually snap-decay interaction.
2. Thragtusk : this is not the main reason I play BUG btw. But, this happen to be the best creature to staying alive when hitting 5 mana so far. It might be replaced by some other utility creatures (Mystic Snake comes to mind)
3. Scooze : this is once again not a main reason I play green, since the original Caleb's list plays goyf instead. But, I like it's ability (like i've said earlier) to hate out GY strategy rather than just a goyf beatstick. (I highly rated goyf, don't get me wrong, but I feel this is not a right shell for it)
I think if you go the control route you need less creatures and more planeswalkers/manlands.
Also more creatures resilient to removal and two real sweepers.
interesting idea, i will definitely consider this. The reason I play drown over damnation however, almost every creatures in my deck is immune to it. so it 90% a one sided wrath.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
@moz:
That's true about Drown in Sorrow, but what opposing threats does it deal with in the current meta?
mainly for swarm deck such as lingering souls. perhaps it will be wiser if i use 1 damnation + 1 drown?
Yea, I played Drown in Sorrow in a deck before and it just really disappointed me, especially in a control shell.
I think your 2x Maelstrom Pulse covers stuff like Lingering Souls, while still having versatility.
I'd definitely run Drown in Sorrow if this was still the Treasure Cruise/UR Delver meta, but now we are dealing with Seige Rhinos and Primeval Titans, Aura Hexproof is also looking to make a comeback as well. Even against BW tokens, their creatures hit x/3 by turn 3.
What do you think of the BUG Aggro route?
Dark Confidant, plus life stabilizers like Kitchen Finks and Scavenging Ooze.
The highest cmc is 3 and you have Serum Visions to help set up the top decks behind Confidant/set up Delver flips.
Decay and Disfigure deal with threats and allow for your creatures to get through.
Spell Snare can deal with counter magic, Spell Pierce with Planeswalkers and other spells.
IOK and Thoughtseize also play the Spell Snare and Pierce roll.
Maybe throw in a Sword of x/y in the list.
Then if you play against more control deck like UWx, side out the Confidants and side in the control elements like Liliana, Garruk, Thrun, maybe even Jace, Architect of Thought.
Why play BUG? Well, you get counters, discard and a fast clock. Unfortunately in Modern, the color combination isn't at it's best though I think it's still worth exploring.
Well, I like the newer list better, but I still think that Goyf is too good not to play. The number of games of Magic I have won simply because I drew 3 Goyfs is so high it's stupid.
That being said, as much as I like Garruk Relentless I don't think he is suited for the current meta. He is bonkers if no one is playing Lightning Bolt. Everyone is playing Lightning Bolt though. Against Bolt decks, he is either a 4 mana 2/2 or a 4 mana Lightning Bolt on a creature. If people were playing lots of UW or Esper control, he'd be great.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
That being said, as much as I like Garruk Relentless I don't think he is suited for the current meta. He is bonkers if no one is playing Lightning Bolt. Everyone is playing Lightning Bolt though. Against Bolt decks, he is either a 4 mana 2/2 or a 4 mana Lightning Bolt on a creature. If people were playing lots of UW or Esper control, he'd be great.
True, I only mentioned him since he wasn't double green and easier to cast in a 3 color deck.
But Garruk Wildspeaker is probably be better...although not sure if his +1 is of much use here.
Just looking for a planeswalker that produces a wincon, i.e creating creatures...Ashiok presents a wincon in playing the mill game...maybe shes the one to lean on, 5 loyalty is a pretty high start for 3 cmc. I play her as a one of in my UB Tezz deck and shes pretty awesome, shes resource denial that can turn into a creature.
@moz:
That's true about Drown in Sorrow, but what opposing threats does it deal with in the current meta?
mainly for swarm deck such as lingering souls. perhaps it will be wiser if i use 1 damnation + 1 drown?
Yea, I played Drown in Sorrow in a deck before and it just really disappointed me, especially in a control shell.
I think your 2x Maelstrom Pulse covers stuff like Lingering Souls, while still having versatility.
I'd definitely run Drown in Sorrow if this was still the Treasure Cruise/UR Delver meta, but now we are dealing with Seige Rhinos and Primeval Titans, Aura Hexproof is also looking to make a comeback as well. Even against BW tokens, their creatures hit x/3 by turn 3.
What do you think of the BUG Aggro route?
Dark Confidant, plus life stabilizers like Kitchen Finks and Scavenging Ooze.
The highest cmc is 3 and you have Serum Visions to help set up the top decks behind Confidant/set up Delver flips.
Decay and Disfigure deal with threats and allow for your creatures to get through.
Spell Snare can deal with counter magic, Spell Pierce with Planeswalkers and other spells.
IOK and Thoughtseize also play the Spell Snare and Pierce roll.
Maybe throw in a Sword of x/y in the list.
Then if you play against more control deck like UWx, side out the Confidants and side in the control elements like Liliana, Garruk, Thrun, maybe even Jace, Architect of Thought.
It might be turned out good. Who knows? But, the reason i subject this thread BUG control instead of normal BUG is because I don't quite like to play aggro.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Why play BUG? Well, you get counters, discard and a fast clock. Unfortunately in Modern, the color combination isn't at it's best though I think it's still worth exploring.
Well, I like the newer list better, but I still think that Goyf is too good not to play. The number of games of Magic I have won simply because I drew 3 Goyfs is so high it's stupid.
That being said, as much as I like Garruk Relentless I don't think he is suited for the current meta. He is bonkers if no one is playing Lightning Bolt. Everyone is playing Lightning Bolt though. Against Bolt decks, he is either a 4 mana 2/2 or a 4 mana Lightning Bolt on a creature. If people were playing lots of UW or Esper control, he'd be great.
Mainly because it can switched flexibly between midrange and control. Uwr and esper doesn't have this flexibility. Uwr's burn plan is easily killed by RIP and any other gy hate, and esper just can't stop being durdly. I love being total durdle, but the meta doesn't allow that. At least since they reprint counterspell to stem up blue's lack of permission play
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
has anyone tried using the Havengul Lich w/ Thragtusk?
Played that little combo back when it was standard and it was great
While that seems neat, it's probably going to be way too slow. Turn 5 Thrag, turn 6 Lich, turn 7 maybe Thrag from the yard? Seems like if you have that much time you probably already won.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
While that seems neat, it's probably going to be way too slow. Turn 5 Thrag, turn 6 Lich, turn 7 maybe Thrag from the yard? Seems like if you have that much time you probably already won.
indeed. i rarely even hit beyond 5 mana afterall, due to lili stripping down my lands. that's why i even consider replacing thrag with finks.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Gerard Fabiano is undefeated at SCG Baltimore with a version of this deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Btw, Caleb make a midrange version of BUG, but after I tried it, it doesn't quite fit my play style, so I tweaked it into a more controlish one.
Without a further ado, this is the list.
This one is the version which I am testing currently :
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Swamp
1 Island
2 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Twilight Mire
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Thragtusk
2 Scavenging Ooze
PW 4
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Garruk Relentless
SORCERY 10
4 Serum Visions
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
INSTANT 10
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
4 Mana Leak
2 Unravel the AEther
1 Thoughtseize
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Darkblast
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Feed the Clan
2 Countersquall
1 Deathmark
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Drown in Sorrow
2 Rain of Tears
Below list is Gerard Fabiano's when he's undefeated in SCG Baltimore.
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Island
2 Breeding Pool
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Polluted Delta
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Watery Grave
CREATURES 11
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Thragtusk
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
3 Mana Leak
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
1 Compulsive Research
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
OTHER SPELLS 3
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Damnation
1 Thoughtseize
1 Nature's Claim
1 Sower of Temptation
2 Feed the Clan
3 Disfigure
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Spellskite
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
If it happen a lot of people interested, then, I will make a primer. For now, I'm too lazy to make one.
Tell me your thoughts!
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
it's not for budget reason. it's mainly because I need my creature to be more than a vanilla. And since I'm leaning toward control, I don't really need to beat down at early turns. scooze is there to counter any GY strategy out there. and tasigur is a bit like goyf, with advantage for being immune to decay.
i love goyf, but i think this is not a right shell for him.
i might be wrong though.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Out of the sideboard, Algae seems incredibly slow in the matchup you most want it in, Tron. It sure is a neat interaction with Urborg, but I think it's just not reliable enough. I'd rather board 2 Distainful Stroke, which has also seemed good versus Scapeshift.
Other than that, I don't quite understand Flooded Grove. You don't have any UU, GG, or UG spells. I think either Twilight Mire or Sunken Ruins would be much better, since BG and UB can help cast your spells.
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I am not trying to knock you or the deck, I am just trying to get the thought process.
The knock against Esper is that the removal doesnt work as a win-con, which affects this deck but you lose the universal (and arguably best non-damage removal in the format Path) but not going white.
Is Thrag, Decay and Ooze really worth giving up what those other decks offer?
I've always been interested in a BUG modern deck, personally I'd go more BUG Aggro, something like:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Dark Confidant
4x Scavenging Ooze
2x Tarmogoyf
2x Kitchen Finks
4x Serum Visions
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Spell Snare
2x Spell Pierce
2x Thoughtseize
2x Disfigure
4x Polluted Delta
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Treetop Village
1x Creeping Tar Pit
I think if you go the control route you need less creatures and more planeswalkers/manlands.
Also more creatures resilient to removal and two real sweepers.
Suggestions:
2x Damnation (instead of Drown in Sorrow)
2x Garruk Relentless (instead of Ashiok)
2x Kitchen Finks (instead of Thragtusk)
2x Treetop Village
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
agreed on ashiok, however the testing list is kinda outdated. i also make a slight tweak on the current list. please check it out.
that's indeed the question here. honestly, I never thought to compare these decks. What I thought initially, I wanna combine the quality spell of BG decks with blue permission and mainly snapcaster mage. but, actually, as a former uwr control player, these are several advantages for being "green".
1. Abrupt decay : This actually solves a lot of problem which esper and uwr originally has problem with. Uncounterability and versatility is the selling point here. There's no other removal in esper (or even uwr) which is better than this at handling less than 3 cmc permanents. And if you compare it to path, in nowadays meta, I honestly prefer decay. So, the most interesting part for me for being BUG actually snap-decay interaction.
2. Thragtusk : this is not the main reason I play BUG btw. But, this happen to be the best creature to staying alive when hitting 5 mana so far. It might be replaced by some other utility creatures (Mystic Snake comes to mind)
3. Scooze : this is once again not a main reason I play green, since the original Caleb's list plays goyf instead. But, I like it's ability (like i've said earlier) to hate out GY strategy rather than just a goyf beatstick. (I highly rated goyf, don't get me wrong, but I feel this is not a right shell for it)
interesting idea, i will definitely consider this. The reason I play drown over damnation however, almost every creatures in my deck is immune to it. so it 90% a one sided wrath.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
That's true about Drown in Sorrow, but what opposing threats does it deal with in the current meta?
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
mainly for swarm deck such as lingering souls. perhaps it will be wiser if i use 1 damnation + 1 drown?
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Yea, I played Drown in Sorrow in a deck before and it just really disappointed me, especially in a control shell.
I think your 2x Maelstrom Pulse covers stuff like Lingering Souls, while still having versatility.
I'd definitely run Drown in Sorrow if this was still the Treasure Cruise/UR Delver meta, but now we are dealing with Seige Rhinos and Primeval Titans, Aura Hexproof is also looking to make a comeback as well. Even against BW tokens, their creatures hit x/3 by turn 3.
What do you think of the BUG Aggro route?
Dark Confidant, plus life stabilizers like Kitchen Finks and Scavenging Ooze.
The highest cmc is 3 and you have Serum Visions to help set up the top decks behind Confidant/set up Delver flips.
Decay and Disfigure deal with threats and allow for your creatures to get through.
Spell Snare can deal with counter magic, Spell Pierce with Planeswalkers and other spells.
IOK and Thoughtseize also play the Spell Snare and Pierce roll.
Maybe throw in a Sword of x/y in the list.
Then if you play against more control deck like UWx, side out the Confidants and side in the control elements like Liliana, Garruk, Thrun, maybe even Jace, Architect of Thought.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Well, I like the newer list better, but I still think that Goyf is too good not to play. The number of games of Magic I have won simply because I drew 3 Goyfs is so high it's stupid.
That being said, as much as I like Garruk Relentless I don't think he is suited for the current meta. He is bonkers if no one is playing Lightning Bolt. Everyone is playing Lightning Bolt though. Against Bolt decks, he is either a 4 mana 2/2 or a 4 mana Lightning Bolt on a creature. If people were playing lots of UW or Esper control, he'd be great.
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
True, I only mentioned him since he wasn't double green and easier to cast in a 3 color deck.
But Garruk Wildspeaker is probably be better...although not sure if his +1 is of much use here.
Just looking for a planeswalker that produces a wincon, i.e creating creatures...Ashiok presents a wincon in playing the mill game...maybe shes the one to lean on, 5 loyalty is a pretty high start for 3 cmc. I play her as a one of in my UB Tezz deck and shes pretty awesome, shes resource denial that can turn into a creature.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
It might be turned out good. Who knows? But, the reason i subject this thread BUG control instead of normal BUG is because I don't quite like to play aggro.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Mainly because it can switched flexibly between midrange and control. Uwr and esper doesn't have this flexibility. Uwr's burn plan is easily killed by RIP and any other gy hate, and esper just can't stop being durdly. I love being total durdle, but the meta doesn't allow that. At least since they reprint counterspell to stem up blue's lack of permission play
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Played that little combo back when it was standard and it was great
While that seems neat, it's probably going to be way too slow. Turn 5 Thrag, turn 6 Lich, turn 7 maybe Thrag from the yard? Seems like if you have that much time you probably already won.
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
i don't know what to cut. any suggestion?
indeed. i rarely even hit beyond 5 mana afterall, due to lili stripping down my lands. that's why i even consider replacing thrag with finks.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
He is cleaning house with his build.
Somehow he was able to even fit in Cryptic Command!
Gerard just won the tournament: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=80617
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant