The trap is quite conditional, but hallow has some uses (like those I described earlier in the thread).
Live Example that occured yesterday on mtgo vs a UWR geist deck :
I attack with 2 Insectile Aberrations and 1 Snapcaster into an empty board. He taps out for a Restoration Angel, I Hallow it in response... He blocks an aberration but it doesn't die and I gain 3 life in the process Had to explain to my opponent that it was legal and it was useless to report it as a bug
Classic case :
I have 2 Delver and a 2/2 cat, he casts Volcanic Fallout. I Hallow it and go from 18 life to 28
On a related note : Deflecting Palm can be used for pretty much the same effect, does not require to target a spell, but it costs 2 and deals damage instead of gaining life.
If you get the chance, practice the UWR control matchup. Dzyl and MattiasNL have been testing it with success today and yesterday, it is chock full of removal and countermagic, their finishers being restoration angel and Celestial Colonnades and a full 4 Snapcaster Mages.
4 Hallow's are overkill, there are already 4 helixes and the counterspell suite to give you an edge. 3 is the maximum number.
Hi, I have put this list together in both paper and on Xmage for about 3-4 weeks now.
I especially played a lot of matches on Xmage, but I also played one paper event with this.
I feel like we have game against almost every deck. The tempo draw seems nigh-unbeatable.
However, in my experience the merfolk matchup is close to unwinnable.
One spreading seas can wreck our day, Aether vial doesn't care about any countermagic and islandwalk+mutavaults makes racing impossible.
So I side in all the burn and removal I have (4 bolt, 4 helix, 4 path, 2 pyroclasm total), and side out the remands and leaks leaving in spell pierce and spell snare for the spreading seas and possible vapor snag.
Even with a resolved pyroclasm taking out a lord + merrow reejery, 2 Path's and 1 helix they still easily killed me with 3 mutavaults+ 1 islandwalking lord.
And that is the closest I have been to actually having a chanse in this matchup.
My one 3-power beater is not at all pressuring them, Goyf can't play the defense role like he does against zoo due to islandwalk.
I am at a loss, any advice?
You're right to board out countermagic for removal. Bring in your Grudges and Revelries too; they blow up Vials to slow them down and Seas to keep you on colors. From there, between Helix/Bolt/Snap/Path/Cruise you shouldn't have a problem outgassing them.
Combat tricks are a beating against this deck -- Bolting a Lord and then favorably blocking their 'Folk totally blows them out of the water (lol). Casting a Declare Attackers-step Revelry on a Seas can have the same effect.
Hi, I have put this list together in both paper and on Xmage for about 3-4 weeks now.
I especially played a lot of matches on Xmage, but I also played one paper event with this.
I feel like we have game against almost every deck. The tempo draw seems nigh-unbeatable.
However, in my experience the merfolk matchup is close to unwinnable.
One spreading seas can wreck our day, Aether vial doesn't care about any countermagic and islandwalk+mutavaults makes racing impossible.
So I side in all the burn and removal I have (4 bolt, 4 helix, 4 path, 2 pyroclasm total), and side out the remands and leaks leaving in spell pierce and spell snare for the spreading seas and possible vapor snag.
Even with a resolved pyroclasm taking out a lord + merrow reejery, 2 Path's and 1 helix they still easily killed me with 3 mutavaults+ 1 islandwalking lord.
And that is the closest I have been to actually having a chanse in this matchup.
My one 3-power beater is not at all pressuring them, Goyf can't play the defense role like he does against zoo due to islandwalk.
I am at a loss, any advice?
You're right to board out countermagic for removal. Bring in your Grudges and Revelries too; they blow up Vials to slow them down and Seas to keep you on colors. From there, between Helix/Bolt/Snap/Path/Cruise you shouldn't have a problem outgassing them.
Combat tricks are a beating against this deck -- Bolting a Lord and then favorably blocking their 'Folk totally blows them out of the water (lol). Casting a Declare Attackers-step Revelry on a Seas can have the same effect.
For Spreading Seas you might try taking a page from a Pauper Zoo deck. Try using Prismatic Omen, or Nylea's Presence. Nylea's Presence also give you CA. Just a thought.
Stacking up on Hallow in order to better my burn matchup. Going with 3 Basics is a choice made from empiric evidence playing the deck. Being able to find another basic if I get pathed/only wanna take 1 damage can be huge. I also chose to go Wear // Tear instead of Destructive Revelry because of the manacost and hence I need the basic Plains
Hallow is super good. So good you don't need 4. With 3 MD Helix AND counterspells, I'd say don't go above 2 in the side. Just resolving one against Burn close to ensures your victory. Much as I love monkeys, I also think drawing 3-6 cards (Snapcaster depending) is better than a 4/4 dude right now, but follow your heart on that one.
Unrelated: taking a Legacy port of this deck to GP New Jersey this weekend. Wish me luck and laughts of laffs :DDD
Edit -- here's my current list for those interested (and for the guys in the mtgthesource thread, excuse the gross crosspost):
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
So, GP Madrid went by and its a Temur Delver/Goyf deck that won
That style is pretty much a delver deck with goyfs that survive the pyroclasm effects.
Based on the decklist shown at the GP coverage, I believe we are at an advantage against this deck, only thing is that post-sideboard, the Molten Rain may wreck us if we are not careful.
However the 3 Melira Pod Lists worry me a little as it is going to be harder to fight through all that lifegain attached to big beasts. I may have to figure out a different solution for that. Maybe something to deny enter the battlefield effects ?
Hushwing gryff or torpor orb come to mind. Id prefer gryff of the two, for both evasion and the "gotcha" factor, but truth be told, I don't care for either.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
Also, can you give some words to Thought Scour? Do you think it is necessary? What about Gitaxian Probes in that slot, to have some more information and sorceries in this deck. Or even 2 more serum visions, to let the Delver flip more consistant. For me Thought Scour looks like it doesnt do enough. But like i said, its just theory atm because i never played this deck before.
Since I've gone to 18 Land, I'm planning on sliding out 2 Scour for a pair of Probe actually. I had it out for all the Burn but I think that deck's been more or less hated out by now. As for Pod, we can grind them out with Cruise, but Rhino is definitely annoying. PTE helps here so it's not a complete blowout. I still don't see it being that hard a matchup, but I'll have to play against it. Maybe I'll face one tomorrow!
Went 11-4 in GP New Jersey with Counter-Cat lolZ. Report here. I also took 1st in a Modern Win-A-Box for 15$ with my current CC list.
Round 1 vs. Bogles (2-1) - Important to know your plan against this deck. Slam guys real fast, keep them off Lifegain, and burn at End Steps when you can. I do just that and take g1, but g2 he deals me too much damage with my Shocklands. G3 I draw Spellskite in the opener.
Round 2 vs. Faeries (2-0) - Good matchup, but we don't actually get to play since he's manascrewed both games. I interact profitably with the little he does, Cruise, and plow him to 0.
Round 3 vs. Bogles (2-0) - G1 he screws himself off W for Coronet with a basic Forest, but it doesn't matter since I'm holding Spell Snare all game. G2 I draw double Spellskite.
And I thought Bogles was a tough matchup. This deck is extremely well-positioned right now.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
What do u think are the Pros/Cons of this version versus the RUG out of the thread in your signature or the one out of the finals of GP Madrid?
Of course we have the Cat, PtE and Lightning Helix but what is the results for the different Matchups? Which MUs become better, which become worse?
Thank you
The big difference is we get Pyroclasm effects, and are totally immune to them. We can also remove Goyf very easily with Path. The Midrange version of RUG Delver, with Shackles, is much harder for us to beat than this new strain with the Pyromancer.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Do you mean delver with shackles or just rug midrange w/o delver?
Delver with Shackles. Delverless isn't hard to beat either unless they pack a bunch of Courser, but IMO that deck was a meta call and we won't be seeing it anymore. It's great against UR Delver, but Pod and Combo trounce it.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
ahstonkutcher,
We played at GP New Jersey (UWR Midrange), and i thought the deck was really cool. I'd be interested to know if there is any specific plan advice for the Pod Matchup as that seems to be growing in popularity. Thanks!
He will be able to talk about it because he played one match vs Pod on his first round at the Face to Face Games weekly Modern Tournament yesterday I was there too and we both ran the tables (read: undefeated) with our decks
My version is a bit different that his (he will likely post his latest version later):
Remarks
I finally relented to ashton's position and added a 4th cruise, but I am still not sold to the 2 Thought Scour in his version and am only a little bit sold on the singleton Faithless Looting, despite his efforts to convince me ;D. The sideboard is pretty much similar to his, except I replaced the Forked Bolt for Electrickery. The choice of either card is relevant and both have their upsides and downsides, so the call will depend of the match plan vs the matchups where this is used.
TOURNAMENT REPORT :
Result : 4-0
Location : Face to Face Games, Montreal Area, Canada
Time : November 17th
Rnd 1 vs UW Soldiers
He was a casual player who was playing his first tournament. His deck was pretty much a bye, but I am a nice guy and I made the match enjoyable and I provided him some pointers in order to help him improve his deck, especially in the mana base department.
Sideboard : No changes
Result : 2-0
Rnd 2 vs URg Delver
This round was interesting.
G1, I saw a Delver and a Breeding Pool, so I concluded it was Temur Delver like the one that won GP Madrid. G1 got decided by an early 3-4 Goyf that went nearly unanswered (if you consider Vapor Snag an answer).
G2 was more interesting, he managed T3 to stick a Pyromancer (+1 elemental) and a Spellskite (+1 mountain untapped) vs my 4/5 Goyf and a Nacatl. When I attacked with both, he casted a Mutagenic Growth on his spellskite (+1 token) blocks my goyf with the help of that token token, blocks my nacatl with the remaining token and then and casted Lightning Bolt, I Hallow it. He was surprised and confused as I had to explain to him what the card does. That wrecked his combat math and I then promptly bolted his pyromancer the next turn and a 2nd goyf came in 2 turns later to finish the job
Result : 2-0
I asked him after the match what he was playing to include green mana in the manabase and he answered that it was for the ancient Grudges in the sideboard and to allow him to pay the green for his mutagenic growth if needed.
Rnd 3 vs Mono-White Martyr of Sands
G1, I started with Fetch/Serum Visions into Nacatl into Goyf while he landed a Martyr of Sands (which died to bolt while he was tapped out) and double Auriok Champion I managed to beat him up with my green beasties and snapcasters while he started to Squadron Hawk, I spell Snared the 2nd Hawk for a tempo boost and managed to drop him to 0 despite him gaining like 14 life in the game. ( Funny thing : He Pathed a Nacatl on my attack, I replaced it with a 2nd one that I just drew, then next turn, I topdeck Nacatl#3 and he pathed Nacatl #2 on my attack, I played Nacatl#3, then next turn he topdecks another parth to get rid of Nacatl #3... )
G2 was pretty much one-sided, I used the burn to keep his creature numbers low to prevent him to activate his three Windbrisk Heights then proceded to beat him up with double nacatl and Goyf.
Result : 2-0
Rnd 4 vs UR Delver
G1 I start on the play and managed to deal with his threats while Treasure Cruising once and keeping a goyf alive long enough to kill him with a bolt.
G2, I pretty much messed up twice, not Hallowing a bolt directed to my face when I had the chance, and then Shock landing myself uselessly. Killed me with burn just as I had just managed to stabilize the board.
G3 was a closely fought game where we both answered our early threats and Treasure Cruising twice each. I ended up winning when I managed to stick some threats while he ran out of gas.
I see that question coming from miles: Why do you side out Delver of Secrets against other Delver decks (mainly UR based)? Two reasons according to me (ashton can corroborate/contradict me if he wants to):
1. In this matchup we are to take the control role (especially after sideboard) because our manabase is more painful than theirs so we start at a disadvantage on the life side of things, but we get bigger creatures that are troublesome to deal with. Also, Pyroclasm effects are in order post-sideboard, which is compatible with our big beasts, but not so much with Delver.
2. Delver is pretty much the only viable target for Forked Bolt vs our deck value-wise (Snapcaster Mage is also a target, but you already got value out of it so it doesn't really matter that much) so instead of running the risk of getting one for one'd early game, I'd rather play more utility spells that help me fufill that control role.
I played at a small Modern night last night. The only issue I had (while playing an older list in the primer, one with Hooting Mandrills) was against a weird G/R Rack style deck. He after sideboard had a Life from the Loam with Ghost Quarters package along with Smallpox. I don't know how well we can beat someone who is going after our lands so heavily as we are running so few. Which made me think, how are the "Death and Taxes" style matches (either the mono white or GW)? They would also be taxing our fragile manabase pretty hard.
Other than that, the deck played like a dream as usual (with some mulligan trouble.
Hooting Mandrills was an MVP for most of the night. I loved seeing people's faces realizing how stupid a 4/4 for G was.
Honestly I kind of want them to ban Cruise so I can start running Hooting Mandrills again. The card is insane. Ishnalade is right about UR Delver, and I think I cover the matchup upthread. We play a control game against them and bring in Pyroclasm, a Raigeki that doesn't touch any of our own threats.
ahstonkutcher,
We played at GP New Jersey (UWR Midrange), and i thought the deck was really cool. I'd be interested to know if there is any specific plan advice for the Pod Matchup as that seems to be growing in popularity. Thanks!
Good question. Pod is harder to beat with Siege Rhino (obviously). Somehow a select few Pod players are still clamoring for a Cruise ban and refusing to adapt their decks to beat the meta; those are insanely easy to beat. For the rest, it's quite a grind. Path to Exile becomes even more important, and you don't want to waste it on cards like Wall of Roots to squeeze damage in anymore since they can make it up with Rhino. Likewise, once they get to 4 mana, ideally you try to hold up Mana Leak for the 4/5. Cruise gave us the tools to out-grind the Pod deck, but Rhino is giving them staying power back. Board out Pierce and Snare for artifact hate and creature removal if you have it (i.e. Chained to the Rocks). Keep 4 Path maindeck if you're expecting the deck. Delver's very important here since he flies over everybody, and Pyroclasm's an all-star.
Like Ishnalade said, Monday we went undefeated at Face to Face, but I drew round 1 against a Pod deck with Rhinos. I think I had it, since I had so much pressure on-board and he was in top-deck mode, but time is time and we had to call it. The highlight of the match: at one point he had Pod, Skite, and Rhino on the table, and Podded away the Rhino for an Archangel of Thune. I only had a Wild Nacatl. I untapped, Cruised, and looked at a hand of a bunch of Red spells. I cast Lightning Bolt on the Archangel, and he chose not to redirect, hoping to snag the next one and 2-for-0 me. I attacked with Nacatl and he blocked with Skite. Pyroclasm wiped his board. I also got to Pyro earlier in the match to take out a post-combat Wall of Roots, a Dork, and a 2/1 Finks. Never underestimate that card, it's quietly the best one in our sideboard. While the 3x Rough // Tumble overperformed for me in the Legacy version of this deck at GP New Jersey, I still wished they were Pyroclasm when I was faced with Flickerwisp and Delvers.
For anyone curious about how the rest of the event went, G2 I was paired with Kiki Control and just out-valued him both games. Even when he spent all his mana on a main-phase Sphinx's Revelation, I generated so many more cards with Cruise that I was able to commit to the board, protect with a Boros Charm, and swing for lethal. G3 I was paired with Tezzeret, a pretty strong matchup for me, but this guy was on Red with Blood Moon. Still, Spell Pierce and Destructive Revelry ended up cutting him off colors by dealing with his mana rocks, and Delver tore him apart. G2 he had a Tezz and a 5/5 Citadel on board, but he couldn't attack since I had a Goyf and a Cat to swing with. Scepter-Bolt won me the game. My last match was against a rogue Constellation deck we have floating around the meta that I'm actually a huge fan of. It's like Devotion to Green but with Eidolon of Blossoms to draw cards. Needless to say, Pyroclasm and Remand are ridiculous here. We finished G1 before the pair next to us had even finished keeping their draws; triple Cat and perfect mana, plus one Mana Leak, cleaned things up real quick. The match was over in 5 minutes, giving me ample time to tease Ishnalade about taking so long to trounce the UR Delver player (and to trounce a couple UR Delver players myself).
One thing I don't like about the deck is how you can get a hand full of threats or one without, and how depending on the matchup one is much better than the other. Against Tron, for instance, you absolutely need quick pressure, and it sucks to mulligan a hand of Spell Pierce, Snapcater Mage, Bolt, Path, Land, Land, Visions. This type of consistency issue would surely be fixed with some better cantrips, which I've taken to writing about at length in the Banlist thread (keep scrolling for more!), but that probably won't happen. Tempo has always struggled with this issue in Modern; even De Rosa's GP-winning RUG Delver list from 2012 had to have drawn some 7's with Shackles, counterspells, and lands against Combo decks. Luckily, we have additional Delvers with Wild Nacatl, helping to mitigate this issue, and the power level of our cards is honestly a little ridiculous for the format. I don't even feel like I'm playing Modern a lot of the time because I get so ahead so quickly. While I think the other Treasure Cruise decks in the format are very easy to hate out, as proven by the GP Madrid Top 8, and use that argument to defend the draw spell, I'm not sure this particular deck is fair for the format. But hey, nobody knows about it, so let's keep winning!
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
The main thing to remember though is that you really have to understand how to interact with the different types of decks (threats, answers, etc.) so that you know which game plan to follow, counter which threat, manage the life dealt by your lands, even choosing what to exile to pay Delve so that you dont accidentally shrink your goyf. It is not that easy as it seems to play as perfectly as possible with this deck, but it is incredibly rewarding when you reach that level.
So :
- Keep an eye on winning decklists, what they run, what can be used against us and if we need to provide a answer to it.
- Practice !!!! Learn your lines of play! Know some relevant and offbeat interactions (see what I posted in earlier pages about the possibilities with Hallow) which can give you an extra edge when the occasion arises.
- Research !!! The modern card pool is still huge and there are fringe cards that may not be relevant right now, but may come handy later. I have my list of cards that are on my "Watchlist".
That decklist resembles more like a zoo deck. Pod has the advantage in board positionning because he has access to more and better creatures so going that path is not the way to go. The advantage with counter cat is that you have early drops and then you use your removal/permission to allow those creatures enough tempo (combined with smart plays) to make you win before he manages to stabilize with his bigger threats.
Couldnt help myself : Apparently, there are still people who fall into the trap of bolting a 2/3 goyf with no instants in the grave... One more trick to consider
Based on the last 4 days of decklists that I saw and the price trends, here are the trends :
Tier 1 :
- Abzan Pod (and Abzan Midrange to a lesser extent) are rising to take pretty much the top spot. Their creature suite combined with lifegain and discard makes him contend with Delver and many other fair decks)
- U/R Delver has lost a bit of popularity, but their presence is still felt in the top decklists ( 3-1 or better).
- Affinity still manages to perform well, but is hampered by the artifact hate factor.
- Bogles is still a force to reckon with, but current hate are keeping its numbers low.
Tier 1.5 :
- Scapeshift has lost a bit of its luster, probably due to the rise of Abzan and its discard suite. I expect it to evolve in order to better fight pod.
- Storm is still a contender, but is piloted to success by few experienced pilots and is affected by the graveyard hate.
- Living end is at the same situation as Storm, Graveyard hate keeps its numbers low but can take over opposition who are not prepared for it.
- Mono Red is seen from time to time, but is no longer dominant as it once was due to the lifegain present in pod. May become tier 2
Tier 2 :
- Amulet Combo : I see the same few pilots performing with the deck to success, but it is still not very popular.
- Zoo: I see a few variations of the list popping up there and then, but has trouble interacting profitably against pod.
- Control : Control is in a weird situation where they have to transform radically whenever the metagame shifts. I expect a new evolution of it coming soon that will be tuned to fight the current meta.
- Soul Sisters : High numbers of lifegains is good, but cannot really contend with Pod's Suite of creatures.
Tier 3 :
- Mono Green Devotion
- The rest
What does it mean for Countercat :
1. The deck must be able to interact favorably against Abzan decks, but the most effective plan of attack is still unclear :
- The Hushwing Gryff plan
- The manabase attack plan
- The anti-green plan
- The super Tempo plan
- Any other plan
2. While being able to interact with Abzan, it must also have good matchups with the other 3 Tier 1 decks.
3. Research may have to be done in order to figure out if there are hidden gems that may give us a new angle of attack...
Example : Cards that interact with green based decks:
Hibernation
Permafrost Trap
Gruul Charm
Curse of the Swine (ok, ok, not good enough i would say ? )
Flashfreeze
Hunt the Hunter
Mirran Crusader
Sword of Feast and Famine
Withering Gaze
Based on the last 4 days of decklists that I saw and the price trends, here are the trends :
Tier 1 :
- Abzan Pod (and Abzan Midrange to a lesser extent) are rising to take pretty much the top spot. Their creature suite combined with lifegain and discard makes him contend with Delver and many other fair decks)
- U/R Delver has lost a bit of popularity, but their presence is still felt in the top decklists ( 3-1 or better).
- Affinity still manages to perform well, but is hampered by the artifact hate factor.
- Bogles is still a force to reckon with, but current hate are keeping its numbers low.
Tier 1.5 :
- Scapeshift has lost a bit of its luster, probably due to the rise of Abzan and its discard suite. I expect it to evolve in order to better fight pod.
- Storm is still a contender, but is piloted to success by few experienced pilots and is affected by the graveyard hate.
- Living end is at the same situation as Storm, Graveyard hate keeps its numbers low but can take over opposition who are not prepared for it.
- Mono Red is seen from time to time, but is no longer dominant as it once was due to the lifegain present in pod. May become tier 2
Tier 2 :
- Amulet Combo : I see the same few pilots performing with the deck to success, but it is still not very popular.
- Zoo: I see a few variations of the list popping up there and then, but has trouble interacting profitably against pod.
- Control : Control is in a weird situation where they have to transform radically whenever the metagame shifts. I expect a new evolution of it coming soon that will be tuned to fight the current meta.
- Soul Sisters : High numbers of lifegains is good, but cannot really contend with Pod's Suite of creatures.
Tier 3 :
- Mono Green Devotion
- The rest
What does it mean for Countercat :
1. The deck must be able to interact favorably against Abzan decks, but the most effective plan of attack is still unclear :
- The Hushwing Gryff plan
- The manabase attack plan
- The anti-green plan
- The super Tempo plan
- Any other plan
2. While being able to interact with Abzan, it must also have good matchups with the other 3 Tier 1 decks.
3. Research may have to be done in order to figure out if there are hidden gems that may give us a new angle of attack...
Example : Cards that interact with green based decks:
Hibernation
Permafrost Trap
Gruul Charm
Curse of the Swine (ok, ok, not good enough i would say ? )
Flashfreeze
Hunt the Hunter
Mirran Crusader
Sword of Feast and Famine
Withering Gaze
If you want to beat Abzan Pod and Midrange, try adding more Remand/Mana Leak. They buckle under pressure when you counter their Siege Rhinos. I personally haven't had a problem with either deck, though I did go to time with a Pod list a couple weeks ago who grinded the game out chaining Siege Rhinos until we drew.
Went 3-0 tonight.
Round 1 vs. Kiki Pod: He hides his plan G1 saying he brewed his list and playing only Thalia and Scavenging Ooze before I kill him, but I board in Pyroclasm smelling mana dorks. It pays off but he still surprises me by Chording for Kiki-Jiki with an Angel out. G3 I'm totally prepared and out-tempo him. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Bogles: G1 I win the race, and G2 I keep a hand with lands, draw, and counterspells. Luckily he's stuck on a Bogle with a single Hyena Umbra for a few turns. I draw Isochron Scepter x Destructive Revelry and put the game away. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Affinity: Super nice guy from Massachusetts I can't find on Facebook now (Ben, if you're reading this, reach out!), but Affinity really doesn't hold a candle to this much removal. 2-0.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
How about Flashfreeze ? Pretty much the only creature spells that we cannot burn out and have to counter are creature decks with Big green creatures, and it also counters Pod, bolt, etc.. We could have access to two permission configurations, one to counter the removal that affect our threats/disrupt combo, and another to counter threats that are bigger than us.
This deck looks super fun and i want to try it out since i love tempo decks, but i'm still new to MTG in general playing less then a year and don't have the Zendikar Fetches or Goyf's though i want to get them when i have the chance to. Would it still be possible to play till i can buy them by using the Hooting Mandrills and Khans Fetches?
Also i like the primer it was a fun read and well done.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
How about Flashfreeze ? Pretty much the only creature spells that we cannot burn out and have to counter are creature decks with Big green creatures, and it also counters Pod, bolt, etc.. We could have access to two permission configurations, one to counter the removal that affect our threats/disrupt combo, and another to counter threats that are bigger than us.
This deck looks super fun and i want to try it out since i love tempo decks, but i'm still new to MTG in general playing less then a year and don't have the Zendikar Fetches or Goyf's though i want to get them when i have the chance to. Would it still be possible to play till i can buy them by using the Hooting Mandrills and Khans Fetches?
Also i like the primer it was a fun read and well done.
Someone claimed to have had success with Noble Hierarch a few pages back, but I don't endorse his list, which frankly just looks bad to me. If you don't have Goyfs, you could theoretically run Young Pyromancer or Geist of Saint Traft in his stead, but in those cases you're probably better off playing UR or Jeskai Delver. You have to consider the way we prioritize our threats in deckbuilding: Goyf is the reason to go Green in Delver. Wild Nacatl is the reason for RUG Delver to splash White.
But yeah, buy Goyfs. Do what you gotta do. It's worth it.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Live Example that occured yesterday on mtgo vs a UWR geist deck :
I attack with 2 Insectile Aberrations and 1 Snapcaster into an empty board. He taps out for a Restoration Angel, I Hallow it in response... He blocks an aberration but it doesn't die and I gain 3 life in the process Had to explain to my opponent that it was legal and it was useless to report it as a bug
Classic case :
I have 2 Delver and a 2/2 cat, he casts Volcanic Fallout. I Hallow it and go from 18 life to 28
If you get the chance, practice the UWR control matchup. Dzyl and MattiasNL have been testing it with success today and yesterday, it is chock full of removal and countermagic, their finishers being restoration angel and Celestial Colonnades and a full 4 Snapcaster Mages.
4 Hallow's are overkill, there are already 4 helixes and the counterspell suite to give you an edge. 3 is the maximum number.
For Spreading Seas you might try taking a page from a Pauper Zoo deck. Try using Prismatic Omen, or Nylea's Presence. Nylea's Presence also give you CA. Just a thought.
Unrelated: taking a Legacy port of this deck to GP New Jersey this weekend. Wish me luck and laughts of laffs :DDD
Edit -- here's my current list for those interested (and for the guys in the mtgthesource thread, excuse the gross crosspost):
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Island
Creature (15)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Thought Scour
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
3 Lightning Helix
Sorcery (7)
2 Serum Visions
1 Faithless Looting
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Spellskite
1 Boros Charm
2 Negate
2 Hallow
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroclasm
1 Forked Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
1 Isochron Scepter
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
That style is pretty much a delver deck with goyfs that survive the pyroclasm effects.
Based on the decklist shown at the GP coverage, I believe we are at an advantage against this deck, only thing is that post-sideboard, the Molten Rain may wreck us if we are not careful.
However the 3 Melira Pod Lists worry me a little as it is going to be harder to fight through all that lifegain attached to big beasts. I may have to figure out a different solution for that. Maybe something to deny enter the battlefield effects ?
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Went 11-4 in GP New Jersey with Counter-Cat lolZ. Report here. I also took 1st in a Modern Win-A-Box for 15$ with my current CC list.
Round 1 vs. Bogles (2-1) - Important to know your plan against this deck. Slam guys real fast, keep them off Lifegain, and burn at End Steps when you can. I do just that and take g1, but g2 he deals me too much damage with my Shocklands. G3 I draw Spellskite in the opener.
Round 2 vs. Faeries (2-0) - Good matchup, but we don't actually get to play since he's manascrewed both games. I interact profitably with the little he does, Cruise, and plow him to 0.
Round 3 vs. Bogles (2-0) - G1 he screws himself off W for Coronet with a basic Forest, but it doesn't matter since I'm holding Spell Snare all game. G2 I draw double Spellskite.
And I thought Bogles was a tough matchup. This deck is extremely well-positioned right now.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
We played at GP New Jersey (UWR Midrange), and i thought the deck was really cool. I'd be interested to know if there is any specific plan advice for the Pod Matchup as that seems to be growing in popularity. Thanks!
My version is a bit different that his (he will likely post his latest version later):
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Mistry Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
CREATURES (15)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Serum Visions
4 Treasure Cruise
INSTANTS (20)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Electrolyze
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Isochron Scepter
2 Spellskite
1 Electrickery
2 Pyroclasm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Boros Charm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Hallow
2 Negate
Remarks
I finally relented to ashton's position and added a 4th cruise, but I am still not sold to the 2 Thought Scour in his version and am only a little bit sold on the singleton Faithless Looting, despite his efforts to convince me ;D. The sideboard is pretty much similar to his, except I replaced the Forked Bolt for Electrickery. The choice of either card is relevant and both have their upsides and downsides, so the call will depend of the match plan vs the matchups where this is used.
TOURNAMENT REPORT :
Result : 4-0
Location : Face to Face Games, Montreal Area, Canada
Time : November 17th
Rnd 1 vs UW Soldiers
He was a casual player who was playing his first tournament. His deck was pretty much a bye, but I am a nice guy and I made the match enjoyable and I provided him some pointers in order to help him improve his deck, especially in the mana base department.
Sideboard : No changes
Result : 2-0
Rnd 2 vs URg Delver
This round was interesting.
G1, I saw a Delver and a Breeding Pool, so I concluded it was Temur Delver like the one that won GP Madrid. G1 got decided by an early 3-4 Goyf that went nearly unanswered (if you consider Vapor Snag an answer).
Sideboard :
-4 Delver of Secrets
-2 Remand
+1 Electrickery
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Spell Pierce
+2 Hallow
G2 was more interesting, he managed T3 to stick a Pyromancer (+1 elemental) and a Spellskite (+1 mountain untapped) vs my 4/5 Goyf and a Nacatl. When I attacked with both, he casted a Mutagenic Growth on his spellskite (+1 token) blocks my goyf with the help of that token token, blocks my nacatl with the remaining token and then and casted Lightning Bolt, I Hallow it. He was surprised and confused as I had to explain to him what the card does. That wrecked his combat math and I then promptly bolted his pyromancer the next turn and a 2nd goyf came in 2 turns later to finish the job
Result : 2-0
I asked him after the match what he was playing to include green mana in the manabase and he answered that it was for the ancient Grudges in the sideboard and to allow him to pay the green for his mutagenic growth if needed.
Rnd 3 vs Mono-White Martyr of Sands
G1, I started with Fetch/Serum Visions into Nacatl into Goyf while he landed a Martyr of Sands (which died to bolt while he was tapped out) and double Auriok Champion I managed to beat him up with my green beasties and snapcasters while he started to Squadron Hawk, I spell Snared the 2nd Hawk for a tempo boost and managed to drop him to 0 despite him gaining like 14 life in the game. ( Funny thing : He Pathed a Nacatl on my attack, I replaced it with a 2nd one that I just drew, then next turn, I topdeck Nacatl#3 and he pathed Nacatl #2 on my attack, I played Nacatl#3, then next turn he topdecks another parth to get rid of Nacatl #3... )
Sideboard :
-2 Remand
-2 Spell Snare
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Electrickery
+1 Isochron Scepter
G2 was pretty much one-sided, I used the burn to keep his creature numbers low to prevent him to activate his three Windbrisk Heights then proceded to beat him up with double nacatl and Goyf.
Result : 2-0
Rnd 4 vs UR Delver
G1 I start on the play and managed to deal with his threats while Treasure Cruising once and keeping a goyf alive long enough to kill him with a bolt.
Sideboard :
-4 Delver of Secrets
-2 Remand
+1 Electrickery
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Spell Pierce
+2 Hallow
G2, I pretty much messed up twice, not Hallowing a bolt directed to my face when I had the chance, and then Shock landing myself uselessly. Killed me with burn just as I had just managed to stabilize the board.
G3 was a closely fought game where we both answered our early threats and Treasure Cruising twice each. I ended up winning when I managed to stick some threats while he ran out of gas.
Result : 2-1
1. In this matchup we are to take the control role (especially after sideboard) because our manabase is more painful than theirs so we start at a disadvantage on the life side of things, but we get bigger creatures that are troublesome to deal with. Also, Pyroclasm effects are in order post-sideboard, which is compatible with our big beasts, but not so much with Delver.
2. Delver is pretty much the only viable target for Forked Bolt vs our deck value-wise (Snapcaster Mage is also a target, but you already got value out of it so it doesn't really matter that much) so instead of running the risk of getting one for one'd early game, I'd rather play more utility spells that help me fufill that control role.
Other than that, the deck played like a dream as usual (with some mulligan trouble.
Hooting Mandrills was an MVP for most of the night. I loved seeing people's faces realizing how stupid a 4/4 for G was.
Like Ishnalade said, Monday we went undefeated at Face to Face, but I drew round 1 against a Pod deck with Rhinos. I think I had it, since I had so much pressure on-board and he was in top-deck mode, but time is time and we had to call it. The highlight of the match: at one point he had Pod, Skite, and Rhino on the table, and Podded away the Rhino for an Archangel of Thune. I only had a Wild Nacatl. I untapped, Cruised, and looked at a hand of a bunch of Red spells. I cast Lightning Bolt on the Archangel, and he chose not to redirect, hoping to snag the next one and 2-for-0 me. I attacked with Nacatl and he blocked with Skite. Pyroclasm wiped his board. I also got to Pyro earlier in the match to take out a post-combat Wall of Roots, a Dork, and a 2/1 Finks. Never underestimate that card, it's quietly the best one in our sideboard. While the 3x Rough // Tumble overperformed for me in the Legacy version of this deck at GP New Jersey, I still wished they were Pyroclasm when I was faced with Flickerwisp and Delvers.
For anyone curious about how the rest of the event went, G2 I was paired with Kiki Control and just out-valued him both games. Even when he spent all his mana on a main-phase Sphinx's Revelation, I generated so many more cards with Cruise that I was able to commit to the board, protect with a Boros Charm, and swing for lethal. G3 I was paired with Tezzeret, a pretty strong matchup for me, but this guy was on Red with Blood Moon. Still, Spell Pierce and Destructive Revelry ended up cutting him off colors by dealing with his mana rocks, and Delver tore him apart. G2 he had a Tezz and a 5/5 Citadel on board, but he couldn't attack since I had a Goyf and a Cat to swing with. Scepter-Bolt won me the game. My last match was against a rogue Constellation deck we have floating around the meta that I'm actually a huge fan of. It's like Devotion to Green but with Eidolon of Blossoms to draw cards. Needless to say, Pyroclasm and Remand are ridiculous here. We finished G1 before the pair next to us had even finished keeping their draws; triple Cat and perfect mana, plus one Mana Leak, cleaned things up real quick. The match was over in 5 minutes, giving me ample time to tease Ishnalade about taking so long to trounce the UR Delver player (and to trounce a couple UR Delver players myself).
One thing I don't like about the deck is how you can get a hand full of threats or one without, and how depending on the matchup one is much better than the other. Against Tron, for instance, you absolutely need quick pressure, and it sucks to mulligan a hand of Spell Pierce, Snapcater Mage, Bolt, Path, Land, Land, Visions. This type of consistency issue would surely be fixed with some better cantrips, which I've taken to writing about at length in the Banlist thread (keep scrolling for more!), but that probably won't happen. Tempo has always struggled with this issue in Modern; even De Rosa's GP-winning RUG Delver list from 2012 had to have drawn some 7's with Shackles, counterspells, and lands against Combo decks. Luckily, we have additional Delvers with Wild Nacatl, helping to mitigate this issue, and the power level of our cards is honestly a little ridiculous for the format. I don't even feel like I'm playing Modern a lot of the time because I get so ahead so quickly. While I think the other Treasure Cruise decks in the format are very easy to hate out, as proven by the GP Madrid Top 8, and use that argument to defend the draw spell, I'm not sure this particular deck is fair for the format. But hey, nobody knows about it, so let's keep winning!
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
So :
- Keep an eye on winning decklists, what they run, what can be used against us and if we need to provide a answer to it.
- Practice !!!! Learn your lines of play! Know some relevant and offbeat interactions (see what I posted in earlier pages about the possibilities with Hallow) which can give you an extra edge when the occasion arises.
- Research !!! The modern card pool is still huge and there are fringe cards that may not be relevant right now, but may come handy later. I have my list of cards that are on my "Watchlist".
Based on the last 4 days of decklists that I saw and the price trends, here are the trends :
Tier 1 :
- Abzan Pod (and Abzan Midrange to a lesser extent) are rising to take pretty much the top spot. Their creature suite combined with lifegain and discard makes him contend with Delver and many other fair decks)
- U/R Delver has lost a bit of popularity, but their presence is still felt in the top decklists ( 3-1 or better).
- Affinity still manages to perform well, but is hampered by the artifact hate factor.
- Bogles is still a force to reckon with, but current hate are keeping its numbers low.
Tier 1.5 :
- Scapeshift has lost a bit of its luster, probably due to the rise of Abzan and its discard suite. I expect it to evolve in order to better fight pod.
- Storm is still a contender, but is piloted to success by few experienced pilots and is affected by the graveyard hate.
- Living end is at the same situation as Storm, Graveyard hate keeps its numbers low but can take over opposition who are not prepared for it.
- Mono Red is seen from time to time, but is no longer dominant as it once was due to the lifegain present in pod. May become tier 2
Tier 2 :
- Amulet Combo : I see the same few pilots performing with the deck to success, but it is still not very popular.
- Zoo: I see a few variations of the list popping up there and then, but has trouble interacting profitably against pod.
- Control : Control is in a weird situation where they have to transform radically whenever the metagame shifts. I expect a new evolution of it coming soon that will be tuned to fight the current meta.
- Soul Sisters : High numbers of lifegains is good, but cannot really contend with Pod's Suite of creatures.
Tier 3 :
- Mono Green Devotion
- The rest
What does it mean for Countercat :
1. The deck must be able to interact favorably against Abzan decks, but the most effective plan of attack is still unclear :
- The Hushwing Gryff plan
- The manabase attack plan
- The anti-green plan
- The super Tempo plan
- Any other plan
2. While being able to interact with Abzan, it must also have good matchups with the other 3 Tier 1 decks.
3. Research may have to be done in order to figure out if there are hidden gems that may give us a new angle of attack...
Example : Cards that interact with green based decks:
Hibernation
Permafrost Trap
Gruul Charm
Curse of the Swine (ok, ok, not good enough i would say ? )
Flashfreeze
Hunt the Hunter
Mirran Crusader
Sword of Feast and Famine
Withering Gaze
Went 3-0 tonight.
Round 2 vs. Bogles: G1 I win the race, and G2 I keep a hand with lands, draw, and counterspells. Luckily he's stuck on a Bogle with a single Hyena Umbra for a few turns. I draw Isochron Scepter x Destructive Revelry and put the game away. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Affinity: Super nice guy from Massachusetts I can't find on Facebook now (Ben, if you're reading this, reach out!), but Affinity really doesn't hold a candle to this much removal. 2-0.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Also i like the primer it was a fun read and well done.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
But yeah, buy Goyfs. Do what you gotta do. It's worth it.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy