//Having access to black means we don't auto-lose to twin, smother is one of the better options for this, as it kills most everything people play in modern including Bob, goyf, delver, v-clique, deceiver exarch/pestermite, melira, the entire zoo and UR aggro decks, and opposing spellskites.
//This deck NEEDS counterspells or it just loses to too many decks. I don't know the correct amount or nature of these yet, and they are somewhat meta dependent, but our combos are not powerful enough to allow us to be non-interactive.
//Bolt, Path, and Snag hurt us so badly, it's worth running Chalice on 1 to get rid of them. It has the added bonus of hosing Storm and Hand Disruption Spells as well as making cantrips, can'trips.
The rest of the list is pretty par for the course with a few exceptions, T3 Grand Architect powering out a spellskite or a chalice is our optimal play. Since Grand dies to bolt... we have to stop them from playing it. In Heartless draws, be careful to leave up blue as often as possible to save the skite from a bolt by making it blue if you don't have chalice yet. Win with wurmcoil engines. Mindslaver is nice, a single activation can win the game, but it also can lose us the game because it doesn't block or gain us life. Flyers can hurt us, if you're having problems with them there are lots of sideboard options available including our friendly phyrexian mana friend Corrosive Gale or running Steel Hellkite. That's my take on the deck. Let me know what you think.
EDH: GGG Omnath, Locus of Mana (Ramp)GGG UG Momir, Simic Visionary (Combo/Control Elves and Friends) UG UR Nin, the Pain Artist (Control) UR WG Saffi Eriksdotter (Combo Reanimator) WG WUG Phelddagrif (True Group Hug) WUG WUGR Ink-Treader Nephilim (COMBO) WUGR
Other Assorted Decks
I want scry but I don't want to use up a spell slot.. there are scry lands, we aren't the fastest deck so they might work.
I want to tutor and not have to card draw, I have tried to use Tutors all along the CMC chain.. deciple of deceit I like the card but I am not sure if it is good enough. there was one version I tried with Ornithopter which with deciple can tutor out lands... which were one set of tron lands but it wasn't worth it.
Sphinx summoner its a blue artifact and a tutor.. I like chaining metamorphs out of my deck for an army of 3/3 (4/4) flyiers
the pili-pala combo is in there.. I just don't have a win con to pair with it.. I don't want to have to run something like increasing confusion, perhaps the best option is a profane command as the infinite mana win con since it is always useful. I have seen azure mage but I don't think it is worth it.
then use chief engineer and battle hymn as your means of mana ramping into large artifacts. all of those goblin tokens would be very deadly if you have say akroma's memorial on the field.
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
--------------------------------------------------- Vintage will rise again!Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Only one person mentioned Sphinx Summoner? With Grand architect in play, you can play summoner getting metamorph and use metamorph to copy summoner -- getting another 4/4 flier for 1 mana. And then you can do it until you're out of mana or metamorphs, and finish with Myr Superion. With Chief Engineer, it's a little worse... but you still get 3/3 Squadron Hawks, and that's nothing to sneeze at.
I think the best way to go is to use Birds of paradise and Noble hierarch as redundant pieces of the mana engine. That would make Myr Superion reliably castable. I think the deck needs a strong engine in the mid-game to keep up the the CA that a lot of decks in modern can generate - that's where Sphinx Summoner, Wurmcoil Engine, and Myr Battlesphere will come in. There might be better options for this, Tezzeret or Staff of Nin or Bottled Cloister. Mindslaver might have a place too - It's possible that we are able to lock with it easily if the game goes long, but I'd have to play the deck to know. Finally, I think the deck needs to have a way to interact with the combo decks in modern, since this deck will be a lot slower than they are. Abrupt decay and Thoughtseize fit well in this shell, as well as the other usual black removal spells. Countermagic is always attractive as well - maybe it would be better to try to slide in Cryptic command, but I think that's a better fit for a different shell.
I imagine this would play out like a pod deck with a more explosive midgame and a weaker end game. Dryad Arbor taps for convoke (and regular mana!) on Myr superion, so I think having one to fetch is worth it.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
There is certainly lots of room for improvement. I sort of jumbled all the most powerful spells into the core list and curved it out. Originally I had a playset of Thoughtseize but it isn't exactly the greatest top deck. After we puke our hand and the board gets wiped, a discard spell is the last thing I want to see.
Tossed in some manlands, I had that unblockable one for a bit but didn't like the CIPT.
Sphinx is the best move. I have an opportunity to field 5 in this list. That beats the tar out of Squadron Hawks. Alternatively you can tutor a freakin Memnarch.
No Mindslaver or Pili Pala. The infinite combos are cute but I'm not confident they'd be good top decks/they may sit in my had too long.
This is largely a modification of an earlier posted list and I liked the angles. I basically agree with everything in that list and submit mine to donate are depth of strategy. Haven't tested obvi, but I'm testing the draws/curve and it's going well.
Just throwing this out there - Phyrexian metamorph + Sharuum the Hegemon + Grand Architect makes infinite mana -- Sharuum etb targets metamorph, metamorph copies sharuum, SBA kills the original, metamorph's trigger targets sharuum, sharuum comes back, SBA's kill metamorph, and now you're back where you started... except between the triggers resolving you've tapped morph and sharuum each for 2 mana! I'm not quite sure what you do with all that artifact only mana, but I wanted to throw it out there.
This might be a little better than pili-pala because you actually want to play sharuum and metamorph in your deck, and both are good without the combo.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Just throwing this out there - Phyrexian metamorph + Sharuum the Hegemon + Grand Architect makes infinite mana -- Sharuum etb targets metamorph, metamorph copies sharuum, SBA kills the original, metamorph's trigger targets sharuum, sharuum comes back, SBA's kill metamorph, and now you're back where you started... except between the triggers resolving you've tapped morph and sharuum each for 2 mana! I'm not quite sure what you do with all that artifact only mana, but I wanted to throw it out there.
This might be a little better than pili-pala because you actually want to play sharuum and metamorph in your deck, and both are good without the combo.
State-based effects - the legend rule in this case. I was implying that it died before you chose targets (i.e, it's in the graveyard when you choose what creature to bring back) because it dies to state based effects. Now that I think about it though... I might not be right.
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
State-based effects - the legend rule in this case. I was implying that it died before you chose targets (i.e, it's in the graveyard when you choose what creature to bring back) because it dies to state based effects. Now that I think about it though... I might not be right.
Edit: checked with the rules guys - it works.
Then this combo will work perfectly with Disciple of the Vault. It'd be up to you how to get Sharuum and Metamorph to resolve and stick, whether that means adjusting the manabase radically remains to be determined.
In other news I think I'm finally happy with this build. It curves perfectly and has a lot in common with Merfolk and Pod while being weirdly susceptible to Echoing Truth and Maelstrom Pulse:
As for choices: I downgraded the Summoned Sphinx combo a bit, it's still very potent. The manabase allows me to through out Tar Pit and threaten to alpha strike due to Architect lord pumps.
This Deck List provides enough chances to ramp, convoke, and cheat out enough big nasty artifacts on turns 3-5. After that I can start hard casting any top decked fatties and the Vedalkens are largely relegated to Chump blockers and outs to Lily of the Veil's -2.
I used to have Lich's Mirror in there but it does nothing to a board that can kill me in one turn so I put up Perilous Vault, easily subbed with Oblivion Stone.
As for fatty choices: the Avatar of New Phyrexia is just fab, Wurm is decent, the angels are for beats plus their must-answer ability, the dragon helps sweep and beat definitely great against tokens and Merfolk.
Try my list out, I'm very confidant it can at least make it to tier2 with tweaks and a competent sideboard strategy.
Tezz feels kinda win-more? He might be solid though, I've never played with him, only been on the receiving end when a dude turned a Pithing Needle targeting my Grimgrin into a 5/5 Pithing Thing. Felt stupid. If we're playing with an undisturbed board, he can be extremely potent. I just assume that over half of the things I am capable of playing are going to get Naturalized, Shatterstormed, Harmonic Slivered, Qasali Pridemaged etc...or even COUNTERED!!!!!
If I was playing Master of Etherium, I'd include Tezz. Without question. I'm not going to so he's less attractive.
Speaking of other cards! I think I'll include some Disciples of the Vault in my side for artifact hate being sided in. It wont help vs. Hurkyl's Recall but it will against Kataki.
In other news I think I'm finally happy with this build. It curves perfectly and has a lot in common with Merfolk and Pod while being weirdly susceptible to Echoing Truth and Maelstrom Pulse:
As for choices: I downgraded the Summoned Sphinx combo a bit, it's still very potent. The manabase allows me to through out Tar Pit and threaten to alpha strike due to Architect lord pumps.
This Deck List provides enough chances to ramp, convoke, and cheat out enough big nasty artifacts on turns 3-5. After that I can start hard casting any top decked fatties and the Vedalkens are largely relegated to Chump blockers and outs to Lily of the Veil's -2.
As for fatty choices: the Avatar of New Phyrexia is just fab, Wurm is decent, the angels are for beats plus their must-answer ability, the dragon helps sweep and beat definitely great against tokens and Merfolk.
This seems like a really good place start. Suddenly slamming 3-5 Sphinx Summoner's into play as early as turn 3 is pretty brutal.
I would consider Thopter Assembly as a fatty, since it essentially walls affinity forever, and lets you run a nifty sideboard Time Sieve.
I would also consider a singleton Inkwell Leviathan since it is essentially unkillable outside of boardsweep (which we are weak to anyway).
That being said, your list looks very top heavy, and a lot of the fatties aren't terribly useful without an engine card to get them in early. I would look into Treasure Mage to serve as both a tutor and a convoke/Architect source, and cut down on monsters bigger than Summoner. Additionally, Muddle the Mixture seems pretty clutch since it fetches Engineer, Sculptor, and Spellskite (and that SB Sieve ) while also serving as a passable counter spell against Scapeshift, Storm and any of Twin's draw effects.
Middle the Mixture is an awesome card I forgot about transmute tbh.
I added in 1 Sharuum, a 3cmc transmute, Metamorph, and Lightning Coils to generate infinite 3/1 haste elementals. It's a weak combo (3 cards and an upkeep required) but is better than no combo. Except for Perplex none of the cards are really dead on their own. Lightning Coils is even pretty flavorful 😜
I dunno about the Mage, he's definitely a useful tutor and can convoke, I'll have to test to see if I want more.
I'm starting to settle on a list that looks like this. It's about time to whip up a sideboard. In it I would like to see Esper Charm and Muddle the Mixture. Mindbreak traps and other goodies for Storm and Replicate.
I don't know about where the other famous Esper rares are supposed to fit in here. No doubt they're all powerful, but I feel they would land in a Chiefs list different from mine. How does the thread feel about these other bombs in a potential 75:
Other than being Esper colored and bombs in a general sense, we don't see these cards played in Modern. Anything that disrupts removal or the color Red would be great. Anything that is more effective at taking apart combos would be even better.
As the deck is in it's current state, I see it being able to play a war of attrition with Jund and BGxRock with a more the decent chance of success. Against Storm, this deck has no game. It Doesn't feel good to throw away G1 in any match up. I suspect Living End would be a similar G1 as well.
Chief Engineer and Grand Architect both want you to curve out aggressively with turn 1 blue creature, turn 2 blue creature, turn 3 blue creature. This really puts a hamper on the deckbuilding. Basically, if you're not doing this, the deck isn't operating at 100% efficiency. As others have discussed, there is pretty much only one 1-drop blue creature that doesn't feel bad to run here: Vedalken Certarch. This little guy actually has significant value at all stages of the game. Judge's Familiar is another option, and plays nice with effects like Lodestone Golem and Thorn of Amethyst.
Thorn of Amethyst and Lodestone Golem provide unique, powerful effects that really put the nails to combo decks while being able to be dodged if you build your deck around it. I am not sure if Thorn warrants maindeck inclusion - it is pretty much dead in creature matchups after all. It's certainly no Sphere of Resistance. We do have Trinisphere but I'm not sure that's what this deck wants. Lodestone Golem, on the other hand, I feel is a must include. It simply hoses a lot of decks straight out of the gate while providing a solid clock to boot. Yes, it dies to Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile (now 2cc spells :P) but thankfully it dodges Abrupt Decay. Also worth noting, these effects become significantly more unfair if you have a Phyrexian Metamorph handy to double down.
The next issue is protection. As many have already mentioned, both Chief Engineer and Grand Architect are extremely fragile. Without some form of protection, you are begging to be blown out. There are only two cards that really stand out as options to consistently protect your guys without being a total waste of deck space - Spellskite and Lightning Greaves. Both of these get worse in multiples. Another powerful effect that both attacks your opponent's strategy and protects yours is Chalice of the Void. Chalice on 1 blanks a HUGE portion of the field - including the dreaded Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile. If you haven't played with it before, you would be amazed at the things this little card can do. The best part is, like the other lock pieces, you can build your deck in a way to mostly dodge this effect. And it can be searched up with Trinket Mage
I'm still not sure you need more than 8 artifact cheapeners - if you are familiar with the old "Rule of 8" tenet in MTG deckbuilding, you understand. (Basically, it states that if you want to guarantee yourself seeing 1 of any particular effect every game, you generally run 6-8 copies of that effect. This rule is commonly seen followed by the majority of combo decks but applies to any strategy revolving around synergy and specific interactions.) I have faith in this strategy and think the redundancy is finally there for it to be a viable option in Modern. I can't wait to hear what else you guys come up with.
Edit: The land base is a bit rough, as I just threw it together, but I think it's important to include at least 1 Darksteel Citadel to find with Trinket Mage since this build is so land light.
Wow your list and description are basically what went through my head when building. I just took mine down the 12 enabler path!
The Lodestone and Amethyst situation you present it simply fantastic. Both those cards were in my earlier builds but got cut because....well I don't remember why!
When it comes to the 1cmc I think Certarch is definitely 2nd best choice. If you're really trying to make the opponent pay extra for their spells, then adding the threat of the Judge's Familiar to the equation would throw that strategy an extra bone. Additionally I use the Architects and Metamorphs copying them as lords for the owl who can starting eating Delver swings as early at T4 with enough love pumps. That plus flying means it can swing for healthy chunks. This is all synergy that has NOTHING to do with artifacts so it won't be hated as bad as losing metalcraft.
Your lack of Cavern of Souls warrants explanation too. Maybe I've just got PTSD from playing against control too much...
Wow your list and description are basically what went through my head when building. I just took mine down the 12 enabler path!
The Lodestone and Amethyst situation you present it simply fantastic. Both those cards were in my earlier builds but got cut because....well I don't remember why!
When it comes to the 1cmc I think Certarch is definitely 2nd best choice. If you're really trying to make the opponent pay extra for their spells, then adding the threat of the Judge's Familiar to the equation would throw that strategy an extra bone. Additionally I use the Architects and Metamorphs copying them as lords for the owl who can starting eating Delver swings as early at T4 with enough love pumps. That plus flying means it can swing for healthy chunks. This is all synergy that has NOTHING to do with artifacts so it won't be hated as bad as losing metalcraft.
Your lack of Cavern of Souls warrants explanation too. Maybe I've just got PTSD from playing against control too much...
Thanks! The land base definitely needs work, and I honestly feel this deck needs more than 20 lands to operate well. You really need to hit your 3 drops to get the ball rolling, but I'm not sure where to start cutting. I think maybe the Sphinx Summoners can be trimmed back. Also, I really feel like Solemn Simulacrum can help, especially in a land light build, but it's a pretty low-impact spell overall.
You've sold me on Judge's Familiar. I think anything that slows our opponent down enough to let us set up, or protect our important guys, even for just one turn, warrants consideration. I think it serves both purposes better than Vedalken Certarch.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't care if you're a moderator but you sir have said a very, very stupid thing.
Why a single Capsule? It's at par against Twin assuming you go first, but recurring it with Ruins is terribly slow and mana hungry. I would maindeck Engineered Explosives instead since its a bigger impact card, and can save you against tokens, buy a turn against twin, and kill lots of zoo critters. While the deck wants some interaction, one Capsule doesn't seem like enough.
I also wonder if Greaves is truly necessary. Engineer and Architect have pseudo-haste on their abilities, and I believe you retain priority between their resolution and ability activation (well, Engineer isn't so much an activation, but it works similarly), so if you can save them right up until the last minute, the Greaves only serve to give them Shroud for future turns, which, if you play your cards right, is irrelevant since your win condition is already in place (unless its something like Blighsteel Colossus, in which case Greaves wins on the spot).
I would consider trading Greaves for the Etherium Scultpors you cut since they also get pumps, cut down on costs across the board, and add some explosiveness to the deck. Another interesting card that is worth sideboarding, if not main-decking over Greaves, is Shimmer Myr. Slamming down multiple Sphinx Summoner's on your opponent's end step leads to nifty surprise kills.
Lastly, 4 Summoners seems like overkill, since you want to chain them into Metamorphs because they're easier to cast. I would definitely cut down to 3, and maybe even down to 2 if you decided to run something like Fabricate for better tutoring.
Why a single Capsule? Recurring it with Ruins is terribly slow, and by itself it's an unimpressive kill spell. I would maindeck an Engineered Explosives instead since its a bigger impact card, and can save you against tokens, buy a turn against twin, and kill lots of zoo critters.
I also wonder if Greaves is truly necessary. Engineer and Architect have pseudo-haste on their abilities, and you retain priority between their resolution and ability activation (similar to Planeswalkers), so if you can save them right up until the last minute, the Greaves only serve to give them Shroud, which, if you play your cards right, is irrelevant since your win condition is already in place (unless its something like Blighsteel, in which case Greaves wins on the spot).
Executioner's Capsule is purely a Trinket Mage target - right now the only removal spells are that and Duplicant. It could certainly be swapped for Engineered Explosives. I think Capsule might be the better mainboard pick since it has broader application, but one or the other probably deserves a spot in the side.
Lightning greaves seems completely eclipsed by spellskite. Spellskite protects all of your creatures instead of just one, and doesn't run into the problem of them removing your creature in response to activating equip. And he does extra work by blocking and convoking. Also if you do want to run thorn of amethyst he costs less potentially. The only thing better about greaves is haste, which isn't very necessary here.
I have been playing around with some options. The problem I have found is just not drawing any action, We kind of have to try to 1 for 2 out opponents repeatedly like a pod deck or put in some actual card draw.
I like the sphinx meta morph chains but I don't like drawing either without something good to copy. I am leaning towards cutting the etherium sculpters as they are pretty bad top decks.
I'll have a go at the taxing version of the deck.
I had another idea which is to model off the Brad Nelson GA standard deck (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/brad-nelson-grand-architect-1/)... which is a Snapcaster mage deck, basically Clones + Snapcaster Cantrips.. I splashed red to play Snappy + bolt over vapour snag. I was going to put up a test list earlier but I got distracted by something.
I don't like that Snapcaster build very much. If an opponent lands a Surgical Extraction effect on Wurmcoil, the deck DIES. Usually that many dig spells in a deck should create a "win" button but a handful of Wurmcoils are not a "win" button. He's thinking though, and I like that.
I finally nailed down a sideboard strategy and I have to say I like Perplex a lot. It will help me tutor for an Architect, a Spear of Heliod, or a Lightning Coils to set up my combo. I'm happy with the number of Sphinxes right now and they all do a good job. Additionally Sharuum is never dead. Two lands and Sharuum provide recursion and I could toss in that Theros Whip to get more.
The sideboard hates non-creature decks and I'm betting those Silent Arbiters would hose any infinite token strategy (if theirs is faster/more consistent than mine, I'll side out mine for hate).
Awesome line of play: T1 - Judge, T2 - Chief (convoke @2)-> Sculptor (convoke @1)-> Spellskite.
With the Judge there we can even hose an incoming T2 Pyroclasm. Honestly with all those guys on the field I can play everything in the deck with one more multicolored land drop.
Any advice for cleaning up the side? I'm probably ready for actual testing at this point.
Out of curiosity, how have you found the addition of white? Sharuum seems nice (the infinite Metamorph combo rues the lack of Disciples), and Spear seems like a cool team buff, but is the mana consistent enough? Also, considering you are playing white, your board could use use some Ethersworn Canonists for the storm match up.
I haven't tested your build, but some cards confuse me. Perplex I can understand, as it always has some utility, but I wonder if Clutch of the Undercity is better than straight-up Fabricate. I'm also not sure I understand what Lightning Coils is doing for you. Lastly, have you tested any other draw effects over the Bident? It doesn't seem bad, but our early drops are tiny, and that's when you want want card draw the most, no?
My Current List for this Archetype (main additions linked):
4 Grand Architect
4 Treasure Mage
4 Cathedral Membrane
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Spellskite
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Duplicant
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Smother
2 Remand
3 Heartless Summoning
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Watery Grave
4 River of Tears
1 Academy Ruins
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Swamp
-----
I REALY want to run Cryptic Command, but I don't know if it fits anywhere.
4 Cathedral Membrane
//This 10 cent uncommon kills goyf and gives us something to play T1 before slamming down a chalice.
3 Smother
//Having access to black means we don't auto-lose to twin, smother is one of the better options for this, as it kills most everything people play in modern including Bob, goyf, delver, v-clique, deceiver exarch/pestermite, melira, the entire zoo and UR aggro decks, and opposing spellskites.
3 Thirst for Knowledge
//I don't know why none of these lists play this, it's super-good here.
2 Remand
//This deck NEEDS counterspells or it just loses to too many decks. I don't know the correct amount or nature of these yet, and they are somewhat meta dependent, but our combos are not powerful enough to allow us to be non-interactive.
3 Chalice of the Void
//Bolt, Path, and Snag hurt us so badly, it's worth running Chalice on 1 to get rid of them. It has the added bonus of hosing Storm and Hand Disruption Spells as well as making cantrips, can'trips.
The rest of the list is pretty par for the course with a few exceptions, T3 Grand Architect powering out a spellskite or a chalice is our optimal play. Since Grand dies to bolt... we have to stop them from playing it. In Heartless draws, be careful to leave up blue as often as possible to save the skite from a bolt by making it blue if you don't have chalice yet. Win with wurmcoil engines. Mindslaver is nice, a single activation can win the game, but it also can lose us the game because it doesn't block or gain us life. Flyers can hurt us, if you're having problems with them there are lots of sideboard options available including our friendly phyrexian mana friend Corrosive Gale or running Steel Hellkite. That's my take on the deck. Let me know what you think.
-ImFromNASA (that's my name on The Source)
RWUAmerican TempoRWU
EDH:
GGG Omnath, Locus of Mana (Ramp)GGG
UG Momir, Simic Visionary (Combo/Control Elves and Friends) UG
UR Nin, the Pain Artist (Control) UR
WG Saffi Eriksdotter (Combo Reanimator) WG
WUG Phelddagrif (True Group Hug) WUG
WUGR Ink-Treader Nephilim (COMBO) WUGR
Other Assorted Decks
This thread should be for Big Blue decks with grand architect rather than the Comboy Chief engineer + genesis chamber affinity decks you can come to my other thread for that, http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-deck-creation/564012-chief-engineer-affinity-combo
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
4 judge's familiar
4 disciple of deceit
3 chief engineer
3 etherium sculptor
2 spellskite
1 vedalken engineer
1 pili-pala
1 phantasmal image
4 grand architect
3 treasure mage
1 Kira great-glassspinner
3 Phyrexian metamorph
1 faerie mechanist
1 sphinx summoner
1 wurmcoil engine
2 Platinum angel
3 thoughtseize
1 Mindslaver
lands
4 darkslick shores
4 watery grave
4 temple of deceit
2 Academy ruins
6 island
1 swamp
I want scry but I don't want to use up a spell slot.. there are scry lands, we aren't the fastest deck so they might work.
I want to tutor and not have to card draw, I have tried to use Tutors all along the CMC chain.. deciple of deceit I like the card but I am not sure if it is good enough. there was one version I tried with Ornithopter which with deciple can tutor out lands... which were one set of tron lands but it wasn't worth it.
Sphinx summoner its a blue artifact and a tutor.. I like chaining metamorphs out of my deck for an army of 3/3 (4/4) flyiers
the pili-pala combo is in there.. I just don't have a win con to pair with it.. I don't want to have to run something like increasing confusion, perhaps the best option is a profane command as the infinite mana win con since it is always useful. I have seen azure mage but I don't think it is worth it.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
could also go red blue with it, and use dragon fodder and krenko's command (maybe krenko himself.)
then use chief engineer and battle hymn as your means of mana ramping into large artifacts. all of those goblin tokens would be very deadly if you have say akroma's memorial on the field.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
---------------------------------------------------
[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I think the best way to go is to use Birds of paradise and Noble hierarch as redundant pieces of the mana engine. That would make Myr Superion reliably castable. I think the deck needs a strong engine in the mid-game to keep up the the CA that a lot of decks in modern can generate - that's where Sphinx Summoner, Wurmcoil Engine, and Myr Battlesphere will come in. There might be better options for this, Tezzeret or Staff of Nin or Bottled Cloister. Mindslaver might have a place too - It's possible that we are able to lock with it easily if the game goes long, but I'd have to play the deck to know. Finally, I think the deck needs to have a way to interact with the combo decks in modern, since this deck will be a lot slower than they are. Abrupt decay and Thoughtseize fit well in this shell, as well as the other usual black removal spells. Countermagic is always attractive as well - maybe it would be better to try to slide in Cryptic command, but I think that's a better fit for a different shell.
4 Noble hierarch
4 Chief Engineer
4 Grand Architect
4 Myr Superion
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Sphinx Summoner
1 Batterskull
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Breeding Pool
3 Watery Grave
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Gavony Township
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Mindslaver
1 Academy Ruins
4 Thoughtseize
2 Spellskite
2 Eldrazi Monument
4 ?
I imagine this would play out like a pod deck with a more explosive midgame and a weaker end game. Dryad Arbor taps for convoke (and regular mana!) on Myr superion, so I think having one to fetch is worth it.
Draw some sample hands! http://essentialmagic.com/Decks/Analysis.asp?ID=1015659. Occasional turn 2 superions and turn 3 wurmcoil engines are pretty fun!
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Etherium Sculptor
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Spellskite
4 Chief Engineer
4 Grand Architect
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Precursor Golem
2 Sphinx Summoner
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Memnarch
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Angel
3 Countersquall
1 Dimir Charm
1 Cryptic Command
Lands:21
1 Academy Ruins
3 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Cavern of Souls
6 Island
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
There is certainly lots of room for improvement. I sort of jumbled all the most powerful spells into the core list and curved it out. Originally I had a playset of Thoughtseize but it isn't exactly the greatest top deck. After we puke our hand and the board gets wiped, a discard spell is the last thing I want to see.
Tossed in some manlands, I had that unblockable one for a bit but didn't like the CIPT.
Sphinx is the best move. I have an opportunity to field 5 in this list. That beats the tar out of Squadron Hawks. Alternatively you can tutor a freakin Memnarch.
No Mindslaver or Pili Pala. The infinite combos are cute but I'm not confident they'd be good top decks/they may sit in my had too long.
This is largely a modification of an earlier posted list and I liked the angles. I basically agree with everything in that list and submit mine to donate are depth of strategy. Haven't tested obvi, but I'm testing the draws/curve and it's going well.
What do you guys think?
This might be a little better than pili-pala because you actually want to play sharuum and metamorph in your deck, and both are good without the combo.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
I didn't understand that at all. What is SBA?
Edit: checked with the rules guys - it works.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Then this combo will work perfectly with Disciple of the Vault. It'd be up to you how to get Sharuum and Metamorph to resolve and stick, whether that means adjusting the manabase radically remains to be determined.
In other news I think I'm finally happy with this build. It curves perfectly and has a lot in common with Merfolk and Pod while being weirdly susceptible to Echoing Truth and Maelstrom Pulse:
4 Judge's Familiar
3 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Spellskite
4 Grand Architect
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Sphinx Summoner
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Memnarch
1 Myr Battlesphere
2 Platinum Angel
3 Remand
1 Perilous Vault
Lands:22
1 Academy Ruins
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Creeping Tar Pit
10 Island
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
As for choices: I downgraded the Summoned Sphinx combo a bit, it's still very potent. The manabase allows me to through out Tar Pit and threaten to alpha strike due to Architect lord pumps.
This Deck List provides enough chances to ramp, convoke, and cheat out enough big nasty artifacts on turns 3-5. After that I can start hard casting any top decked fatties and the Vedalkens are largely relegated to Chump blockers and outs to Lily of the Veil's -2.
I used to have Lich's Mirror in there but it does nothing to a board that can kill me in one turn so I put up Perilous Vault, easily subbed with Oblivion Stone.
As for fatty choices: the Avatar of New Phyrexia is just fab, Wurm is decent, the angels are for beats plus their must-answer ability, the dragon helps sweep and beat definitely great against tokens and Merfolk.
Try my list out, I'm very confidant it can at least make it to tier2 with tweaks and a competent sideboard strategy.
Questions? Jeers? Comments? Riddles?
Memnarch is in there because his ability is only just barely playable with the ramping and architects, easily subbed for another Wurmcoil.
I don't access to M15 cards yet obvi but I want to test this ASAP. If only to nail down a sideboard strategy...
I'll take out the disciples and try out some of these tighter lists.
Thoughts on Tezzeret, Agent of bolas? is it too slow?. I have him only as a 1 of atm.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
If I was playing Master of Etherium, I'd include Tezz. Without question. I'm not going to so he's less attractive.
Speaking of other cards! I think I'll include some Disciples of the Vault in my side for artifact hate being sided in. It wont help vs. Hurkyl's Recall but it will against Kataki.
This seems like a really good place start. Suddenly slamming 3-5 Sphinx Summoner's into play as early as turn 3 is pretty brutal.
I would consider Thopter Assembly as a fatty, since it essentially walls affinity forever, and lets you run a nifty sideboard Time Sieve.
I would also consider a singleton Inkwell Leviathan since it is essentially unkillable outside of boardsweep (which we are weak to anyway).
That being said, your list looks very top heavy, and a lot of the fatties aren't terribly useful without an engine card to get them in early. I would look into Treasure Mage to serve as both a tutor and a convoke/Architect source, and cut down on monsters bigger than Summoner. Additionally, Muddle the Mixture seems pretty clutch since it fetches Engineer, Sculptor, and Spellskite (and that SB Sieve ) while also serving as a passable counter spell against Scapeshift, Storm and any of Twin's draw effects.
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Chief Engineer
4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Spellskite
4 Grand Architect
1 Treasure Mage
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Sphinx Summoner
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
2 Platinum Angel
2 Lightning Coils
2 Perplex
Lands:22
1 Academy Ruins
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Godless Shrine
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
Middle the Mixture is an awesome card I forgot about transmute tbh.
I added in 1 Sharuum, a 3cmc transmute, Metamorph, and Lightning Coils to generate infinite 3/1 haste elementals. It's a weak combo (3 cards and an upkeep required) but is better than no combo. Except for Perplex none of the cards are really dead on their own. Lightning Coils is even pretty flavorful 😜
I dunno about the Mage, he's definitely a useful tutor and can convoke, I'll have to test to see if I want more.
I'm starting to settle on a list that looks like this. It's about time to whip up a sideboard. In it I would like to see Esper Charm and Muddle the Mixture. Mindbreak traps and other goodies for Storm and Replicate.
I don't know about where the other famous Esper rares are supposed to fit in here. No doubt they're all powerful, but I feel they would land in a Chiefs list different from mine. How does the thread feel about these other bombs in a potential 75:
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Meddling Mage
1 Master of Etherium
1 Master Transmuter
1 Sublime Archangel
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Ethersworn Adjudicator
1 Sen Triplets
1 Sharding Sphinx
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Other than being Esper colored and bombs in a general sense, we don't see these cards played in Modern. Anything that disrupts removal or the color Red would be great. Anything that is more effective at taking apart combos would be even better.
As the deck is in it's current state, I see it being able to play a war of attrition with Jund and BGxRock with a more the decent chance of success. Against Storm, this deck has no game. It Doesn't feel good to throw away G1 in any match up. I suspect Living End would be a similar G1 as well.
Chief Engineer and Grand Architect both want you to curve out aggressively with turn 1 blue creature, turn 2 blue creature, turn 3 blue creature. This really puts a hamper on the deckbuilding. Basically, if you're not doing this, the deck isn't operating at 100% efficiency. As others have discussed, there is pretty much only one 1-drop blue creature that doesn't feel bad to run here: Vedalken Certarch. This little guy actually has significant value at all stages of the game. Judge's Familiar is another option, and plays nice with effects like Lodestone Golem and Thorn of Amethyst.
Thorn of Amethyst and Lodestone Golem provide unique, powerful effects that really put the nails to combo decks while being able to be dodged if you build your deck around it. I am not sure if Thorn warrants maindeck inclusion - it is pretty much dead in creature matchups after all. It's certainly no Sphere of Resistance. We do have Trinisphere but I'm not sure that's what this deck wants. Lodestone Golem, on the other hand, I feel is a must include. It simply hoses a lot of decks straight out of the gate while providing a solid clock to boot. Yes, it dies to Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile (now 2cc spells :P) but thankfully it dodges Abrupt Decay. Also worth noting, these effects become significantly more unfair if you have a Phyrexian Metamorph handy to double down.
The next issue is protection. As many have already mentioned, both Chief Engineer and Grand Architect are extremely fragile. Without some form of protection, you are begging to be blown out. There are only two cards that really stand out as options to consistently protect your guys without being a total waste of deck space - Spellskite and Lightning Greaves. Both of these get worse in multiples. Another powerful effect that both attacks your opponent's strategy and protects yours is Chalice of the Void. Chalice on 1 blanks a HUGE portion of the field - including the dreaded Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile. If you haven't played with it before, you would be amazed at the things this little card can do. The best part is, like the other lock pieces, you can build your deck in a way to mostly dodge this effect. And it can be searched up with Trinket Mage
Based on those thoughts, here is my build:
4 Watery Grave
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Academy Ruins
4 Vedalken Certarch
3 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Chief Engineer
2 Trinket Mage
2 Treasure Mage
4 Grand Architect
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Sphinx Summoner
1 Duplicant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Executioner's Capsule
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
8 metagame slots
Some cards I considered that ultimately didn't make the cut:
I'm still not sure you need more than 8 artifact cheapeners - if you are familiar with the old "Rule of 8" tenet in MTG deckbuilding, you understand. (Basically, it states that if you want to guarantee yourself seeing 1 of any particular effect every game, you generally run 6-8 copies of that effect. This rule is commonly seen followed by the majority of combo decks but applies to any strategy revolving around synergy and specific interactions.) I have faith in this strategy and think the redundancy is finally there for it to be a viable option in Modern. I can't wait to hear what else you guys come up with.
Edit: The land base is a bit rough, as I just threw it together, but I think it's important to include at least 1 Darksteel Citadel to find with Trinket Mage since this build is so land light.
The Lodestone and Amethyst situation you present it simply fantastic. Both those cards were in my earlier builds but got cut because....well I don't remember why!
When it comes to the 1cmc I think Certarch is definitely 2nd best choice. If you're really trying to make the opponent pay extra for their spells, then adding the threat of the Judge's Familiar to the equation would throw that strategy an extra bone. Additionally I use the Architects and Metamorphs copying them as lords for the owl who can starting eating Delver swings as early at T4 with enough love pumps. That plus flying means it can swing for healthy chunks. This is all synergy that has NOTHING to do with artifacts so it won't be hated as bad as losing metalcraft.
Your lack of Cavern of Souls warrants explanation too. Maybe I've just got PTSD from playing against control too much...
Thanks! The land base definitely needs work, and I honestly feel this deck needs more than 20 lands to operate well. You really need to hit your 3 drops to get the ball rolling, but I'm not sure where to start cutting. I think maybe the Sphinx Summoners can be trimmed back. Also, I really feel like Solemn Simulacrum can help, especially in a land light build, but it's a pretty low-impact spell overall.
You've sold me on Judge's Familiar. I think anything that slows our opponent down enough to let us set up, or protect our important guys, even for just one turn, warrants consideration. I think it serves both purposes better than Vedalken Certarch.
Why a single Capsule? It's at par against Twin assuming you go first, but recurring it with Ruins is terribly slow and mana hungry. I would maindeck Engineered Explosives instead since its a bigger impact card, and can save you against tokens, buy a turn against twin, and kill lots of zoo critters. While the deck wants some interaction, one Capsule doesn't seem like enough.
I also wonder if Greaves is truly necessary. Engineer and Architect have pseudo-haste on their abilities, and I believe you retain priority between their resolution and ability activation (well, Engineer isn't so much an activation, but it works similarly), so if you can save them right up until the last minute, the Greaves only serve to give them Shroud for future turns, which, if you play your cards right, is irrelevant since your win condition is already in place (unless its something like Blighsteel Colossus, in which case Greaves wins on the spot).
I would consider trading Greaves for the Etherium Scultpors you cut since they also get pumps, cut down on costs across the board, and add some explosiveness to the deck. Another interesting card that is worth sideboarding, if not main-decking over Greaves, is Shimmer Myr. Slamming down multiple Sphinx Summoner's on your opponent's end step leads to nifty surprise kills.
Lastly, 4 Summoners seems like overkill, since you want to chain them into Metamorphs because they're easier to cast. I would definitely cut down to 3, and maybe even down to 2 if you decided to run something like Fabricate for better tutoring.
Executioner's Capsule is purely a Trinket Mage target - right now the only removal spells are that and Duplicant. It could certainly be swapped for Engineered Explosives. I think Capsule might be the better mainboard pick since it has broader application, but one or the other probably deserves a spot in the side.
I would suggest you play some games with Lightning Greaves, as it serves a much greater purpose than simply protecting your cheapeners - it also makes your Lodestone Golems, Wurmcoil Engine, and Platinum Angel significantly better.
I like the sphinx meta morph chains but I don't like drawing either without something good to copy. I am leaning towards cutting the etherium sculpters as they are pretty bad top decks.
I'll have a go at the taxing version of the deck.
I had another idea which is to model off the Brad Nelson GA standard deck (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/brad-nelson-grand-architect-1/)... which is a Snapcaster mage deck, basically Clones + Snapcaster Cantrips.. I splashed red to play Snappy + bolt over vapour snag. I was going to put up a test list earlier but I got distracted by something.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Also here is my latest build:
4 Judge's Familiar
3 Chief Engineer
3 Etherium Sculptor
4 Spellskite
4 Grand Architect
3 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Sphinx Summoner
1 Duplicant
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Angel
1 Lightning Coils
2 Perplex
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Bident of Thassa
Lands:22
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Celestial Colonnade
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Watery Grave
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Tempest of Light
1 Clutch of the Undercity
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Silent Arbiter
1 Merciless Eviction
I finally nailed down a sideboard strategy and I have to say I like Perplex a lot. It will help me tutor for an Architect, a Spear of Heliod, or a Lightning Coils to set up my combo. I'm happy with the number of Sphinxes right now and they all do a good job. Additionally Sharuum is never dead. Two lands and Sharuum provide recursion and I could toss in that Theros Whip to get more.
The sideboard hates non-creature decks and I'm betting those Silent Arbiters would hose any infinite token strategy (if theirs is faster/more consistent than mine, I'll side out mine for hate).
Awesome line of play: T1 - Judge, T2 - Chief (convoke @2)-> Sculptor (convoke @1)-> Spellskite.
With the Judge there we can even hose an incoming T2 Pyroclasm. Honestly with all those guys on the field I can play everything in the deck with one more multicolored land drop.
Any advice for cleaning up the side? I'm probably ready for actual testing at this point.
Out of curiosity, how have you found the addition of white? Sharuum seems nice (the infinite Metamorph combo rues the lack of Disciples), and Spear seems like a cool team buff, but is the mana consistent enough? Also, considering you are playing white, your board could use use some Ethersworn Canonists for the storm match up.
I haven't tested your build, but some cards confuse me. Perplex I can understand, as it always has some utility, but I wonder if Clutch of the Undercity is better than straight-up Fabricate. I'm also not sure I understand what Lightning Coils is doing for you. Lastly, have you tested any other draw effects over the Bident? It doesn't seem bad, but our early drops are tiny, and that's when you want want card draw the most, no?