Have you ever thought about making a list in the primer about what to side in/out against what matchup? That coukd really help me since I'm relativly new at modern.
Have you ever thought about making a list in the primer about what to side in/out against what matchup? That coukd really help me since I'm relativly new at modern.
It used to be in there but then I changed the list a ton, and I decided I'd rather just wait until the sideboard is complete rather than overhaul it. This was what I had:
UWR/Delver: -4 Tusker +4 Skylasher, -2 Prey Upon +2 Choke
I know the sideboard looks funny, I mostly just took it from my 8rack. Anyhow, the report:
Round 1: GR Tron
Game 1: Double Rancor on Geist wins me the game shortly after he gets the tron
I brought in Unravel and took out Tusker if i recall correctly. Probably should have gotten Surgical Extraction
Game 2: I Unravel his first Wurmcoil Engine, but he topdecks another. A late Karn seals the game for him.
Game 3: I win turn 4
Round 2: Abzan
Game 1: He plays Liliana and nearly ultimates, but I play a 6/6 Dungrove Elder and kill it. He wins via Treetop Village (I didn't know they played them) swings.
I took out Deadbridge Goliath, Tactics, and a couple Tuskers for Needles and Baloths.
Game 2: Reeeeeeeally long game. He thoughtseizes me to see a good two-lander with Obstinate Baloth. He plays a Lily to make me sac a creature, and after I Pithing Needle naming Treetop Village he plays another, and makes me discard my baloth. His goyf grows like crazy and I trade for it with Dungrove Elder. In the end, he Abrupt Decays my Needle and removes my creatures, beating me at 1 life.
Round 3: Temur Twin
Game 1: He combos turn 4.
I pulled out Goliath and Tuskers for Needle and Extraction.
Game 2: Dungrove Elder really shines and he chump-blocks with a goyf. I play a second Elder rancor just wins.
Game 3: He again combos turn 4.
Round 4: Golgari Rock w/Siege Rhino
Game 1: I keep an hand that will be awesome if I draw a second land. I do. Dungrove Elder seems like a card I should play more of, and it wins me the game.
I side in Baloth, Needle, and Tactics and take out some Experiments ad Tuskers
Game 2: He chips at my life total with a small goyf for a bit, and drops double Rhino, and then Courser of Kruphix. How could I win?
Game 3: He play two Courser, a Rhino, and Thrun(!). I hold my ground with all 4 of my Leatherback Baloths, but he removes them and swings for the win.
Notes: I think that Siege Rhino is a trouble, at least for me. Twin is fast, really fast. Dungrove Elder was an all-star, and I was never unhappy to draw it. People seemed amazed that this lands and at least 3/3 hexproof, and grows. Hexroof was, in fact, extremely useful with all the removal I saw running around. While 1-3 wasn't the most exciting result for my first time playing it, I had a blast. It's also cheaper to upgrade than 8Rack, soooooo....
I know the sideboard looks funny, I mostly just took it from my 8rack. Anyhow, the report:
Round 1: GR Tron
Game 1: Double Rancor on Geist wins me the game shortly after he gets the tron
I brought in Unravel and took out Tusker if i recall correctly. Probably should have gotten Surgical Extraction
Game 2: I Unravel his first Wurmcoil Engine, but he topdecks another. A late Karn seals the game for him.
Game 3: I win turn 4
Round 2: Abzan
Game 1: He plays Liliana and nearly ultimates, but I play a 6/6 Dungrove Elder and kill it. He wins via Treetop Village (I didn't know they played them) swings.
I took out Deadbridge Goliath, Tactics, and a couple Tuskers for Needles and Baloths.
Game 2: Reeeeeeeally long game. He thoughtseizes me to see a good two-lander with Obstinate Baloth. He plays a Lily to make me sac a creature, and after I Pithing Needle naming Treetop Village he plays another, and makes me discard my baloth. His goyf grows like crazy and I trade for it with Dungrove Elder. In the end, he Abrupt Decays my Needle and removes my creatures, beating me at 1 life.
Round 3: Temur Twin
Game 1: He combos turn 4.
I pulled out Goliath and Tuskers for Needle and Extraction.
Game 2: Dungrove Elder really shines and he chump-blocks with a goyf. I play a second Elder rancor just wins.
Game 3: He again combos turn 4.
Round 4: Golgari Rock w/Siege Rhino
Game 1: I keep an hand that will be awesome if I draw a second land. I do. Dungrove Elder seems like a card I should play more of, and it wins me the game.
I side in Baloth, Needle, and Tactics and take out some Experiments ad Tuskers
Game 2: He chips at my life total with a small goyf for a bit, and drops double Rhino, and then Courser of Kruphix. How could I win?
Game 3: He play two Courser, a Rhino, and Thrun(!). I hold my ground with all 4 of my Leatherback Baloths, but he removes them and swings for the win.
Notes: I think that Siege Rhino is a trouble, at least for me. Twin is fast, really fast. Dungrove Elder was an all-star, and I was never unhappy to draw it. People seemed amazed that this lands and at least 3/3 hexproof, and grows. Hexroof was, in fact, extremely useful with all the removal I saw running around. While 1-3 wasn't the most exciting result for my first time playing it, I had a blast. It's also cheaper to upgrade than 8Rack, soooooo....
I think if you didn't have a Deadbridge but another Dungrove, and if your tuskers were bassara tower archers, you would have a better time against removal Also, I nearly never side out the one drops cause: speed. When we are against tri-color midrange, we have a free advantage: Their shocklands do 10-20% of the damage for us, shortening the clock. We need to apply pressure without losing board presence (hexproof/regen/pump). From there on they go on the defensive and we can remove their guys/walkers for the win. You can try bow of nylea to deal with rhinos for cheap (send smaller guys into the red zone, keep big guys as deterrents, activate for counters or life eot).
You may also wanna check out my list below.
Good stomping and spread the green word!
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Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Well, I actually traded for a bow after the tournament. Siding out the one-drops wasn't a major problem for me, but E1 kept on eating removal. I'm sorry to ask, but could there be a better alternative to Experiment One in the meta? I'm pretty sure Young Wolf was in the primer at some point.
Well, I actually traded for a bow after the tournament. Siding out the one-drops wasn't a major problem for me, but E1 kept on eating removal. I'm sorry to ask, but could there be a better alternative to Experiment One in the meta? I'm pretty sure Young Wolf was in the primer at some point.
I love Young Wolf, regardless of what some others say. Definitely possible it could be better right now. There are no other alternatives.
Hey! I've been playing since Nemesis but have taken a break for an indefinite amount of time since I had kids.
First, thanks so much for this primer. When I occasionally get to go out to tourneys, I want to bring this deck, and your primer really helped educate me on the options. It's also great to see the fruits of all your hard work. I have a few questions for you:
1. Aspect of Hydra and Prey Upon seem like win-more cards. They're fantastic when you have creatures on the board, but pretty much a dead draw if you're behind or don't have that great of board position. Why do you run them over Giant Growth and Dismember? Do they provide any value that I'm not seeing?
2. Have you found Obstinate Baloth to be good enough against burn? Have you tried Nourish?
3. Why not just run 2 copies of Thrun, the Last Troll?
4. Have you ever tested single Hurricane in your sb just in case you're against a long control matchup?
1. There was a recent debate about Aspect if you want to go looking for it. Basically, it's an unfair card, which we need. I've tested it a lot and I'm very confident in it. Another guy had doubts until he tried it extensively too; it steals games that couldn't be won otherwise. You'll encounter a lot of situations where it's late game and the board is full on both sides; you go for the alpha strike and put Aspect on the one unblocked guy or the guy with trample and win. But also sometimes just the raw damage will get you the win a turn earlier than they go off with Splinter Twin or Scapeshift, for example. Prey ensures you stay ahead or at parity in a lot of games where you wouldn't otherwise. The creature clause is very rarely an issue. 1cmc is very relevant because our manabase is tight and we want as much mana as possible to cast threats/pump. Dismember is bad in a meta full of Scapeshift, Delver, Burn, Affinity, etc.
2. I haven't tested Baloth much. Some people have tried Feed the Clan and like it.
3. Legendary, versatility, and Polukranos doesn't die to lots of popular removal anyway. But it might be correct, and is in certain metas.
4. They have one flier (excluding Colonnade), which would cost us 5 to kill. 5cmc is a bad idea anyway, but even worse against counterspell decks. I'm happy with Choke.
Edit: I've updated a handful of the card descriptions in the primer a bit.
Before I say this, I'd like to mention that my search function doesn't work, so forgive me if this has already been heavily discussed. Also most my testing has been against control, so I'm probably biased.
Has anyone tried splashing red just for lightning bolt? I feel like it could be a good option because you can not only use it as removal, also to get that last bit of damage through. It's also one mana removal, like dismember and prey upon, and doesn't require you to pay life (although your lands will). It would also allow us to run destructive revelry instead of unravel the aether in our sideboard.
Before I say this, I'd like to mention that my search function doesn't work, so forgive me if this has already been heavily discussed. Also most my testing has been against control, so I'm probably biased.
Has anyone tried splashing red just for lightning bolt? I feel like it could be a good option because you can not only use it as removal, also to get that last bit of damage through. It's also one mana removal, like dismember and prey upon, and doesn't require you to pay life (although your lands will). It would also allow us to run destructive revelry instead of unravel the aether in our sideboard.
Yeah, we've discussed the red splash a lot. Basically you can't splash for just one card and before you know it, you're a worse version of Zoo, or you are Zoo. We want Unravel no matter what.
(Unravel's there over the other options as it shuffles Wurmcoils away)
Aspect/prey upon are definitely not winmore. Aspect can smash open a stalled out board state, and usually we'll have something bigger that we can use to eat the enemy creature. That said, I do miss dismember every now and then, there are some situations where it would be preferable. Maybe I'll slide it into the sideboard in place of the gut shots - if we're cool with paying 2 life to off x/1s, then adding a mana and 2 more life to off anything up to x/5 is a good flexibility upgrade.
Honestly I haven't played the deck much lately (I should probably do that) but I hear it's become more favorable for us since the rise of Delver and Burn. I don't have much experience against Pod but iirc it's hard for us if they see Pod unless we can remove it or shut it down, but otherwise it's good.
It used to be in there but then I changed the list a ton, and I decided I'd rather just wait until the sideboard is complete rather than overhaul it. This was what I had:
2 Treetop Village
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
3 Kalonian Tusker
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Leatherback Baloth
1 Deadbridge Goliath
1 Setessan Tactics
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Aspect of Hydra
3 Dismember
1 Setessan Tactics
4 Garruk's Companion
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage (??)
2 Unravel the Æther
2 Obstinate Baloth
I know the sideboard looks funny, I mostly just took it from my 8rack. Anyhow, the report:
Round 1: GR Tron
Game 1: Double Rancor on Geist wins me the game shortly after he gets the tron
I brought in Unravel and took out Tusker if i recall correctly. Probably should have gotten Surgical Extraction
Game 2: I Unravel his first Wurmcoil Engine, but he topdecks another. A late Karn seals the game for him.
Game 3: I win turn 4
Round 2: Abzan
Game 1: He plays Liliana and nearly ultimates, but I play a 6/6 Dungrove Elder and kill it. He wins via Treetop Village (I didn't know they played them) swings.
I took out Deadbridge Goliath, Tactics, and a couple Tuskers for Needles and Baloths.
Game 2: Reeeeeeeally long game. He thoughtseizes me to see a good two-lander with Obstinate Baloth. He plays a Lily to make me sac a creature, and after I Pithing Needle naming Treetop Village he plays another, and makes me discard my baloth. His goyf grows like crazy and I trade for it with Dungrove Elder. In the end, he Abrupt Decays my Needle and removes my creatures, beating me at 1 life.
Round 3: Temur Twin
Game 1: He combos turn 4.
I pulled out Goliath and Tuskers for Needle and Extraction.
Game 2: Dungrove Elder really shines and he chump-blocks with a goyf. I play a second Elder rancor just wins.
Game 3: He again combos turn 4.
Round 4: Golgari Rock w/Siege Rhino
Game 1: I keep an hand that will be awesome if I draw a second land. I do. Dungrove Elder seems like a card I should play more of, and it wins me the game.
I side in Baloth, Needle, and Tactics and take out some Experiments ad Tuskers
Game 2: He chips at my life total with a small goyf for a bit, and drops double Rhino, and then Courser of Kruphix. How could I win?
Game 3: He play two Courser, a Rhino, and Thrun(!). I hold my ground with all 4 of my Leatherback Baloths, but he removes them and swings for the win.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
I have one around. But doesn't Orb stop Experiment One from evolving? Hunt the Hunter sounds nice, I'll find a few.
I think if you didn't have a Deadbridge but another Dungrove, and if your tuskers were bassara tower archers, you would have a better time against removal Also, I nearly never side out the one drops cause: speed. When we are against tri-color midrange, we have a free advantage: Their shocklands do 10-20% of the damage for us, shortening the clock. We need to apply pressure without losing board presence (hexproof/regen/pump). From there on they go on the defensive and we can remove their guys/walkers for the win. You can try bow of nylea to deal with rhinos for cheap (send smaller guys into the red zone, keep big guys as deterrents, activate for counters or life eot).
You may also wanna check out my list below.
Good stomping and spread the green word!
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
I love Young Wolf, regardless of what some others say. Definitely possible it could be better right now. There are no other alternatives.
edit:
basically this V
First, thanks so much for this primer. When I occasionally get to go out to tourneys, I want to bring this deck, and your primer really helped educate me on the options. It's also great to see the fruits of all your hard work. I have a few questions for you:
1. Aspect of Hydra and Prey Upon seem like win-more cards. They're fantastic when you have creatures on the board, but pretty much a dead draw if you're behind or don't have that great of board position. Why do you run them over Giant Growth and Dismember? Do they provide any value that I'm not seeing?
2. Have you found Obstinate Baloth to be good enough against burn? Have you tried Nourish?
3. Why not just run 2 copies of Thrun, the Last Troll?
4. Have you ever tested single Hurricane in your sb just in case you're against a long control matchup?
Thanks for your input!
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1. There was a recent debate about Aspect if you want to go looking for it. Basically, it's an unfair card, which we need. I've tested it a lot and I'm very confident in it. Another guy had doubts until he tried it extensively too; it steals games that couldn't be won otherwise. You'll encounter a lot of situations where it's late game and the board is full on both sides; you go for the alpha strike and put Aspect on the one unblocked guy or the guy with trample and win. But also sometimes just the raw damage will get you the win a turn earlier than they go off with Splinter Twin or Scapeshift, for example. Prey ensures you stay ahead or at parity in a lot of games where you wouldn't otherwise. The creature clause is very rarely an issue. 1cmc is very relevant because our manabase is tight and we want as much mana as possible to cast threats/pump. Dismember is bad in a meta full of Scapeshift, Delver, Burn, Affinity, etc.
2. I haven't tested Baloth much. Some people have tried Feed the Clan and like it.
3. Legendary, versatility, and Polukranos doesn't die to lots of popular removal anyway. But it might be correct, and is in certain metas.
4. They have one flier (excluding Colonnade), which would cost us 5 to kill. 5cmc is a bad idea anyway, but even worse against counterspell decks. I'm happy with Choke.
Edit: I've updated a handful of the card descriptions in the primer a bit.
Has anyone tried splashing red just for lightning bolt? I feel like it could be a good option because you can not only use it as removal, also to get that last bit of damage through. It's also one mana removal, like dismember and prey upon, and doesn't require you to pay life (although your lands will). It would also allow us to run destructive revelry instead of unravel the aether in our sideboard.
Yeah, we've discussed the red splash a lot. Basically you can't splash for just one card and before you know it, you're a worse version of Zoo, or you are Zoo. We want Unravel no matter what.
Aspect/prey upon are definitely not winmore. Aspect can smash open a stalled out board state, and usually we'll have something bigger that we can use to eat the enemy creature. That said, I do miss dismember every now and then, there are some situations where it would be preferable. Maybe I'll slide it into the sideboard in place of the gut shots - if we're cool with paying 2 life to off x/1s, then adding a mana and 2 more life to off anything up to x/5 is a good flexibility upgrade.