I think that the route most people are following, using aggro creatures such as Gravecrawler and Bloodghast and the heavy graveyard recursion is not the best route in a format where path to exile, deathrite shaman and scavenging ooze and many others strong grave hate.
I think that the best route is a route more similar to the Standard mono-black devotion, with the upgrades that modern can provide:
- Phyrexian Arena over Underworld Connections
- Phyrexian Obliterator over Desecration Demon
- Dismember over Doom Blade
- Better discard suite, with both Inquisition of Kozilek and Toughtseize
- Profane command, as the deck can generate huge mana.
- Stillmoon Cavalier, the protections are very relevant
- full powered Deathrite Shaman with fetches
The recursion with Gravecrawler and Bloodghast is cute and looks great when work, but the if the deck works too much around it, then it becomes weaker since it's very easy to disrupt.
I think that the route most people are following, using aggro creatures such as Gravecrawler and Bloodghast and the heavy graveyard recursion is not the best route in a format where path to exile, deathrite shaman and scavenging ooze and many others strong grave hate.
I think that the best route is a route more similar to the Standard mono-black devotion, with the upgrades that modern can provide:
- Phyrexian Arena over Underworld Connections
- Phyrexian Obliterator over Desecration Demon
- Dismember over Doom Blade
- Better discard suite, with both Inquisition of Kozilek and Toughtseize
- Profane command, as the deck can generate huge mana.
- full powered Deathrite Shaman with fetches
The recursion with Gravecrawler and Bloodghast is cute and looks great when work, but the if the deck works too much around it, then it becomes weaker since it's very easy to disrupt.
I am going to have to agree with this. I played a similar list to the stock, but splashed DRS/bolt/decay/pulse (pyroclasm in board). I only had one god draw of Gravecrawler > shade > messenger > oblit > merchant. I recasted Gravecrawler twice the night, lost 3 messengers to DRS/Ooze. I think this deck needs to turn into Mono Black Control, or find faster creatures.
Maybe our creatures can drop down to just 2 shades, 4 obliterators, 3-4 Merchants and have more permanent based control? Liliana, arena, Ensnaring Bridge?
I'm tempted to start a new thread because the following list, while being based around Devotion, is nothing like the lists I've seen so far. It looks odd, but after a few matches it seems to have a decent turn 4 kill, and it can do some incredible things like out mana tron or win when living end decides to go for it. A couple of the creatures I don't like (Plagued Rusalka, namely) and the sideboard is kinda filler until I get more games in and decide what's needed, but I like the play it has so far.
There's a good argument for dropping some spoils for more swamps, but since this is a combo deck I just went up to the full 4 spoils with the idea that early i can just use them to get swamps. Keep in mind that the deck has 22 maindeck 1 cmc spells so early mana screw isn't even that bad. Anyways, hope this gives ideas for other devotion avenues to explore.
this is definitely one interesting deck, but i have no idea why this deck needs nykthos. there is no mana sink, no devotion buildup, basically a turn 4 combo deck
I think that the route most people are following, using aggro creatures such as Gravecrawler and Bloodghast and the heavy graveyard recursion is not the best route in a format where path to exile, deathrite shaman and scavenging ooze and many others strong grave hate.
I think that the best route is a route more similar to the Standard mono-black devotion, with the upgrades that modern can provide:
- Phyrexian Arena over Underworld Connections
- Phyrexian Obliterator over Desecration Demon
- Dismember over Doom Blade
- Better discard suite, with both Inquisition of Kozilek and Toughtseize
- Profane command, as the deck can generate huge mana.
- Stillmoon Cavalier, the protections are very relevant
- full powered Deathrite Shaman with fetches
The recursion with Gravecrawler and Bloodghast is cute and looks great when work, but the if the deck works too much around it, then it becomes weaker since it's very easy to disrupt.
the thing is though, phyrexian obliterator is even easier to remove than gravecrawlers and blooghasts. any devotion strategy is based on your board presence, and if you have none, the strategy fails. that's why i consider arena and liliana crucial in this deck, and i am willing to experiment with gravepact, since enchantments and PWs are generally harder to remove. but from what i've tested this deck is still lacking speed and disruption/protection, bloodghasts and gravecrawlers are the only things that dont die to board wipes and countermagic, but a relic of progenitus takes care of those with ease and this deck is not capable of dealing with artifacts
I built a black devotion deck that I ended up scrapping in favor of other projects but a few cards that I was using that I don't see others even trying are the black X spells: Consume Spirit, Profane Command and Diabolic Revelation. I mean what is the use of having tons of black mana if you don't have a way to use it? I ran Diabolic Revelation as a 2 of, but it was a particularly useful card and there were numerous times that I could refill my entire hand with exactly what I wanted. Consume Spirit paired nicely with Erebos because you can use that life gain to use his active as another card draw. Just some thoughts for you guys to try.
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Modern xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW UWGBantUWG GWRNaya ZooRWG
Basically, I really like the interactions you're game plan puts on you're opponents. This list is set up as a good stuff list, with multiple layers of synergy. Fulminator Mage + Grave Pact/ Whip. Shriekmaw and Gravepact/ Whip. But these cards work on their own too. The deck needs ways to interact ... to be in control of a game. Fulminator, Shriekmaw, Liliana and the discard suite are there for that.
I love Geralf's Messenger and Gravecrawler, they are actually pet cards of mine. This take on the deck is more midrange good-stuff that can hopefully compete against the 'unfair' modern decks. You NEED to be able to interact on a big level in Modern, otherwise you will lose to the Trons and Twins, and only enjoy the tournament at the 0-2 table onwards.
This is a work in progress, as with all lists ... but it does seem really cool! Just thought I'd put my 2c forward.
Edit: Upadted list with the zombie package. Disruption in the board.
I am a fan of devotion, but I wanted to build a deck that doesn't have Deathrite or Liliana in it. I don't need fetch lands for a mono black deck (Deathrite looses some value right there) and with a devotion deck you want some board presence, Liliana provides it, but the +1 is something that you want to build around. You don't really want to discard cards in this deck.
The overall game plan of this deck is to disrupt their hand on turn 1. Lay a resilient creature on turn 2 (Bloodghast) and on turn 3 (Geralf's). Then tap Nykthos on turn 4 for 5 mana, tap the other two lands for a total of 7 mana, use Beseech the queen for whatever card you want in your deck that you need and cast it. Turn 5, cast Gray Merchant for a huge life swing. This deck is somewhat mana hungry, but I really like having tutors in the deck and a few cards which could really get you out of a jam.
I am tempted to put in Nantuko Shade instead of Gatekeeper for another mana sink and I feel like the Whip of Erebos is somewhat weak and a sword might be better. The lightning greaves are in there strictly to protect your creatures from removal spells. I am new to the modern format and any feedback would be appreciated!
I played in another tournament today, and didn't drop a match. I used the same list from before, removing the grave crawlers and the mind slash to really push mana sink creatures and get more Geralf's Messengers into the list. I haven't had the chance to play that neat little combo deck posted earlier, but I have considered trying out Viscera Seer in my build to help Messenger dodge PTE while digging me to what I need. It also plays nice with Bloodghast and Profane Command, which has quickly become one of my favorite cards in the deck. Ive noticed alot of people side out PTE against me since there are 8 creatures it cant hit, and I tend to side out Bloodghasts.
Edit: naclmolecule, can I add that list to the main primer as a variation?
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
If running the full number of Nykthos and insane creatures like Bloodghast, Geralf's Messenger, etc, it's VERY tempting to shove Griselbrand in this list.
After playing and thinking about this deck a lot here's my analysis:
I want to be pro-active, redundant and I don't want to rely on devotion but I do want to take advantage of it when it happens. For these reasons I've built my plan around Phyrexian Obliterator, Profane Command and Nykthos. Obliterator and Command are synergistic. Command is powered up by the devotion Obliterator supplies, Command makes it nigh-unblockable and returns support creatures.
Dark Confidant and Deathrite Shaman are incredibly powerful cards that are 10 out of 10's. They have the added benefit of drawing out removal so it's more likely Obliterator will stick around. They are also very easy to bring back with Profane Command. Confidant really skews your deck building to low CMC cards which is a pain but it does help to keep the deck lean.
Liliana of the Veil is another 10 out of 10 card. A turn 2 Liliana is still one of the best plays in Modern, I'd like to have that power please. Discarding Bloodghasts to Liliana feels pretty, pretty good. She's easy to board out in matches where she doesn't pull her weight but in control/combo matches she's a boss.
Vampire Nighthawk is a less than stellar card but I've been really craving lifegain. He draws out removal, to keep Obliterators on board, blocks difficult creatures and adds 2 to devotion. He does a lot but is the worst card in the deck. He's amazing with Lashwrithe.
Lashwrithe is a secondary win condition, turning those Bloodghasts into a fast clock. Any creature with a Lashwrithe represents a real threat. Between the Deathrites and the Profane Commands you'll burn people often.
Abrupt Decay is another 10 out of 10 card. I've recently been running 3 and putting my Pulses in the board.
New developments: +2x Fauna Shaman and get some 1-ofs into the deck. Bloodghast is a great pitch to Shaman and Profane Command helps get back discarded creatures too. Would likely drop the Lashwrithes and Nighthawks to fit in Shaman and her tutor targets.
I have 4 phyrexian obliterator in my deck and hes cray cray. If left unanwsered you probably win the turn after with a grey merchant. I play some hand disruption to remove their removal Play phyrexian obliterator guys
the thing is though, phyrexian obliterator is even easier to remove than gravecrawlers and blooghasts.
But you are getting this wrong. Obliterator is not the enabler. it is the enabled.
And since when obliterator is easier to remove? Your opponent will not use any damage removal against it. Only hard removal can deal with obliterator, and for that, you have your discard. Gravecrawler and Bloodghast can be chumped for days and their recursion engine is easily shut down with all the grave hate avaiable.
People will not use pyroclasms effect on a field with an Obliterator.
Maybe bloodghast is not a bad option because he gives 2 devotion and have better synergy with liliana than crawler, that also requires zombies.
But yes, your point about phyrexian arena and LotV is very valid, non-creature permanents are really good for devotion.
If you're going heavy on Liliana of the Veil, I like Demigod better. Need more than just Bloodghast to synergize with her +1. You can destroy permanents occasionally with the Obliterator, but typically he's just a 5/5 unblockable until they get removal. Demigod comes out of nowhere for 10 or 15 damage (depending on graveyard hate, obviously). If no Liliana for some reason, I like Obliterator better. Maybe the key is just cramming all 3 of them in the same deck, mana curve be damned!
After playing and thinking about this deck a lot here's my analysis:
I want to be pro-active, redundant and I don't want to rely on devotion but I do want to take advantage of it when it happens. For these reasons I've built my plan around Phyrexian Obliterator, Profane Command and Nykthos. Obliterator and Command are synergistic. Command is powered up by the devotion Obliterator supplies, Command makes it nigh-unblockable and returns support creatures.
Dark Confidant and Deathrite Shaman are incredibly powerful cards that are 10 out of 10's. They have the added benefit of drawing out removal so it's more likely Obliterator will stick around. They are also very easy to bring back with Profane Command. Confidant really skews your deck building to low CMC cards which is a pain but it does help to keep the deck lean.
Liliana of the Veil is another 10 out of 10 card. A turn 2 Liliana is still one of the best plays in Modern, I'd like to have that power please. Discarding Bloodghasts to Liliana feels pretty, pretty good. She's easy to board out in matches where she doesn't pull her weight but in control/combo matches she's a boss.
Vampire Nighthawk is a less than stellar card but I've been really craving lifegain. He draws out removal, to keep Obliterators on board, blocks difficult creatures and adds 2 to devotion. He does a lot but is the worst card in the deck. He's amazing with Lashwrithe.
Lashwrithe is a secondary win condition, turning those Bloodghasts into a fast clock. Any creature with a Lashwrithe represents a real threat. Between the Deathrites and the Profane Commands you'll burn people often.
Abrupt Decay is another 10 out of 10 card. I've recently been running 3 and putting my Pulses in the board.
New developments: +2x Fauna Shaman and get some 1-ofs into the deck. Bloodghast is a great pitch to Shaman and Profane Command helps get back discarded creatures too. Would likely drop the Lashwrithes and Nighthawks to fit in Shaman and her tutor targets.
But you haven't actually skewed your deck towards low CMC cards. Running Dark Confidant in a deck that has 13 cards that do 3 or more damage seems crazy to me. There are only 5 1 cmc cards (not counting lands). The lifegain from DRS is not enough to offset this in my experience. I play Junkblade in Legacy, with an incredibly low curve, and there are still plenty of times when I'm sweating what my Bob is going to reveal. Given the make-up of your deck, I would definitely switch to Phyrexian Arena.
It is hard to chump-block a creature with flying ;).
Yes, because lingering souls and many others small fliers aren't on the format.
Chumpblocking your 5 drops for 4 turns with a single card.
The Demigod interaction in multiples is cute, nothing more than that. It's not consistent enough to be something that you can rely into.
And as Cactuscorpus said, Demigod is a card that you want as a 4 of, otherwise he is suboptimal, and you don't want 8 5 drops on your deck.
@Caspian
On your list, running confidant is suicidal, runs Phyrexian Arena instead, it adds more to devotion, and the 1 damage is rarely relevant with the lifegains sources you have.
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I think that the best route is a route more similar to the Standard mono-black devotion, with the upgrades that modern can provide:
- Phyrexian Arena over Underworld Connections
- Phyrexian Obliterator over Desecration Demon
- Dismember over Doom Blade
- Better discard suite, with both Inquisition of Kozilek and Toughtseize
- Profane command, as the deck can generate huge mana.
- Stillmoon Cavalier, the protections are very relevant
- full powered Deathrite Shaman with fetches
The recursion with Gravecrawler and Bloodghast is cute and looks great when work, but the if the deck works too much around it, then it becomes weaker since it's very easy to disrupt.
I am going to have to agree with this. I played a similar list to the stock, but splashed DRS/bolt/decay/pulse (pyroclasm in board). I only had one god draw of Gravecrawler > shade > messenger > oblit > merchant. I recasted Gravecrawler twice the night, lost 3 messengers to DRS/Ooze. I think this deck needs to turn into Mono Black Control, or find faster creatures.
Maybe our creatures can drop down to just 2 shades, 4 obliterators, 3-4 Merchants and have more permanent based control? Liliana, arena, Ensnaring Bridge?
this is definitely one interesting deck, but i have no idea why this deck needs nykthos. there is no mana sink, no devotion buildup, basically a turn 4 combo deck
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
the thing is though, phyrexian obliterator is even easier to remove than gravecrawlers and blooghasts. any devotion strategy is based on your board presence, and if you have none, the strategy fails. that's why i consider arena and liliana crucial in this deck, and i am willing to experiment with gravepact, since enchantments and PWs are generally harder to remove. but from what i've tested this deck is still lacking speed and disruption/protection, bloodghasts and gravecrawlers are the only things that dont die to board wipes and countermagic, but a relic of progenitus takes care of those with ease and this deck is not capable of dealing with artifacts
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Gray Merchant of Xxx
3 Shriekmaw
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Phyrexian Arena
2 Grave Pact
2 Whip of Erobos
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
10 Swamp
1 Thoughtseize
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Infest
1 Phyrexian Arena
7 Other
Sideboard is there just to give an idea.
This deck is inspired by the good work you guys have been doing in this thread in combination with Caleb Durward's Modern Obliterator list; found here [http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-calebd-modern-obliterator/].
Basically, I really like the interactions you're game plan puts on you're opponents. This list is set up as a good stuff list, with multiple layers of synergy. Fulminator Mage + Grave Pact/ Whip. Shriekmaw and Gravepact/ Whip. But these cards work on their own too. The deck needs ways to interact ... to be in control of a game. Fulminator, Shriekmaw, Liliana and the discard suite are there for that.
I love Geralf's Messenger and Gravecrawler, they are actually pet cards of mine. This take on the deck is more midrange good-stuff that can hopefully compete against the 'unfair' modern decks. You NEED to be able to interact on a big level in Modern, otherwise you will lose to the Trons and Twins, and only enjoy the tournament at the 0-2 table onwards.
This is a work in progress, as with all lists ... but it does seem really cool! Just thought I'd put my 2c forward.
Edit: Upadted list with the zombie package. Disruption in the board.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Geralf's Messenger
2 Fulminator Mage
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Shriekmaw
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Mind Slash
2 Grave Pact
2 Whip of Erobos
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
10 Swamp
4 Thoughtseize
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Victim of Night
2 Infest
1 Night of Souls Betrayal
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
21 Swamp
Creatures
4 Bloodghast
3 Gatekeeper of Malkir
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Profane Command
3 Beseech the Queen
3 Phyrexian Arena
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Lightning Greaves
The overall game plan of this deck is to disrupt their hand on turn 1. Lay a resilient creature on turn 2 (Bloodghast) and on turn 3 (Geralf's). Then tap Nykthos on turn 4 for 5 mana, tap the other two lands for a total of 7 mana, use Beseech the queen for whatever card you want in your deck that you need and cast it. Turn 5, cast Gray Merchant for a huge life swing. This deck is somewhat mana hungry, but I really like having tutors in the deck and a few cards which could really get you out of a jam.
I am tempted to put in Nantuko Shade instead of Gatekeeper for another mana sink and I feel like the Whip of Erebos is somewhat weak and a sword might be better. The lightning greaves are in there strictly to protect your creatures from removal spells. I am new to the modern format and any feedback would be appreciated!
CBW midrange deck
CBW eldrazi processor deck
CBW bw eldrazi shadow midrange
Edit: naclmolecule, can I add that list to the main primer as a variation?
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
4x Dark Confidant
3x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Bloodghast
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
2x Lashwrithe
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Liliana of the Veil
3x Profane Command
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
3x Overgrown Tomb
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Torpor Orb
1x Thoughtseize
2x Damnation
2x Deathmark
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Leyline of the Void
After playing and thinking about this deck a lot here's my analysis:
I want to be pro-active, redundant and I don't want to rely on devotion but I do want to take advantage of it when it happens. For these reasons I've built my plan around Phyrexian Obliterator, Profane Command and Nykthos. Obliterator and Command are synergistic. Command is powered up by the devotion Obliterator supplies, Command makes it nigh-unblockable and returns support creatures.
Dark Confidant and Deathrite Shaman are incredibly powerful cards that are 10 out of 10's. They have the added benefit of drawing out removal so it's more likely Obliterator will stick around. They are also very easy to bring back with Profane Command. Confidant really skews your deck building to low CMC cards which is a pain but it does help to keep the deck lean.
Liliana of the Veil is another 10 out of 10 card. A turn 2 Liliana is still one of the best plays in Modern, I'd like to have that power please. Discarding Bloodghasts to Liliana feels pretty, pretty good. She's easy to board out in matches where she doesn't pull her weight but in control/combo matches she's a boss.
Vampire Nighthawk is a less than stellar card but I've been really craving lifegain. He draws out removal, to keep Obliterators on board, blocks difficult creatures and adds 2 to devotion. He does a lot but is the worst card in the deck. He's amazing with Lashwrithe.
Lashwrithe is a secondary win condition, turning those Bloodghasts into a fast clock. Any creature with a Lashwrithe represents a real threat. Between the Deathrites and the Profane Commands you'll burn people often.
Abrupt Decay is another 10 out of 10 card. I've recently been running 3 and putting my Pulses in the board.
New developments: +2x Fauna Shaman and get some 1-ofs into the deck. Bloodghast is a great pitch to Shaman and Profane Command helps get back discarded creatures too. Would likely drop the Lashwrithes and Nighthawks to fit in Shaman and her tutor targets.
BSmallpoxB
Edh
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
Demigod of Revenge or any other B demigod anyone?
And since when obliterator is easier to remove? Your opponent will not use any damage removal against it. Only hard removal can deal with obliterator, and for that, you have your discard. Gravecrawler and Bloodghast can be chumped for days and their recursion engine is easily shut down with all the grave hate avaiable.
People will not use pyroclasms effect on a field with an Obliterator.
Maybe bloodghast is not a bad option because he gives 2 devotion and have better synergy with liliana than crawler, that also requires zombies.
But yes, your point about phyrexian arena and LotV is very valid, non-creature permanents are really good for devotion.
Phyrexian Obliterator is better. While it don't have haste, it can't be profitable chumped.
It is hard to chump-block a creature with flying ;).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
But you haven't actually skewed your deck towards low CMC cards. Running Dark Confidant in a deck that has 13 cards that do 3 or more damage seems crazy to me. There are only 5 1 cmc cards (not counting lands). The lifegain from DRS is not enough to offset this in my experience. I play Junkblade in Legacy, with an incredibly low curve, and there are still plenty of times when I'm sweating what my Bob is going to reveal. Given the make-up of your deck, I would definitely switch to Phyrexian Arena.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
Yes, because lingering souls and many others small fliers aren't on the format.
Chumpblocking your 5 drops for 4 turns with a single card.
The Demigod interaction in multiples is cute, nothing more than that. It's not consistent enough to be something that you can rely into.
And as Cactuscorpus said, Demigod is a card that you want as a 4 of, otherwise he is suboptimal, and you don't want 8 5 drops on your deck.
@Caspian
On your list, running confidant is suicidal, runs Phyrexian Arena instead, it adds more to devotion, and the 1 damage is rarely relevant with the lifegains sources you have.