Minor nitpick. I don't think that's LSV's take. It says that the decklist is of BlindNavigator's. Rather, LSV's just highlighting the deck, since it was doing well.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Minor nitpick. I don't think that's LSV's take. It says that the decklist is of BlindNavigator's. Rather, LSV's just highlighting the deck, since it was doing well.
I have 2 problems with the primer. The first one is that running Porphyryr Nodes is a really bad choice because this deck runs a lot of 1-2 power creatures. You'll be killing your own Zur, Geist, Snapcaster Mages, Aven Mindcensors, Meddling Mages, Tidehollow Scullers, and Deathrite Shamans almost all of the time. The second is why would you run Circles of Protection over Story Circle? That card might even me maindeckable. Other than that, nice work. It really helps me understand the deck.
I beat all real decks (Jund, tron, UWR, delver, affinity, RG aggro, something else) except one was a weird mono green ramp deck. No idea what it was really doing but this list felt like the real deal.
I think maybe the mana base can be tweaked but everything else felt really solid.
I beat all real decks (Jund, tron, UWR, delver, affinity, RG aggro, something else) except one was a weird mono green ramp deck. No idea what it was really doing but this list felt like the real deal.
I think maybe the mana base can be tweaked but everything else felt really solid.
I have 2 problems with the primer. The first one is that running Porphyryr Nodes is a really bad choice because this deck runs a lot of 1-2 power creatures. You'll be killing your own Zur, Geist, Snapcaster Mages, Aven Mindcensors, Meddling Mages, Tidehollow Scullers, and Deathrite Shamans almost all of the time. The second is why would you run Circles of Protection over Story Circle? That card might even me maindeckable. Other than that, nice work. It really helps me understand the deck.
I'm mainly listing enchantments that have interesting and unique effects at that point. In the current version that I play, you're right, Porphyry Nodes would be terrible. In a version that is more control oriented with less creatures, it is a conceivable sideboard option against decks like Affinity or Elves. You're probably right it's never worth it, I just wanted to have a bank of "maybe"s.
Forgot to add Story Circle to the list. Added it now. I've run it maindeck before but against a decent amount of decks you just don't want to see it. Also, getting multiple white mana isn't necessarily easy unless you focus on it at the very start of the game with your fetchlands.
I went 4-0 and 3-1 with this list in 2 dailies over the weekend (and completely bombed out of the premier event on sunday):
I beat all real decks (Jund, tron, UWR, delver, affinity, RG aggro, something else) except one was a weird mono green ramp deck. No idea what it was really doing but this list felt like the real deal.
I think maybe the mana base can be tweaked but everything else felt really solid.
Cool, I'll add your list to my primer. Looks like everyone's following the Gerry Thompson inspired list so far. Spreading Seas worth that many copies main?
I beat all real decks (Jund, tron, UWR, delver, affinity, RG aggro, something else) except one was a weird mono green ramp deck. No idea what it was really doing but this list felt like the real deal.
I think maybe the mana base can be tweaked but everything else felt really solid.
I'm curious why you have rule of law. What combo decks are you playing against? Why not just play more rest in peace vs living end and jund?
Spreading seas is sweet:
It cantrips and with 23 lands and 4 drops in the deck, cantrips are pretty relevant. Its pretty effective against jund, not just for mandland but also as a turn two play on any of their lands. Its a must have against tron since your only other relevant disruption against them is thoughtseize. And its a good answer to manlands in affinity.
It wasn't all that great against scapeshift unfortunately.
Rule of law is for storm (admittedly i havent seen it in dailies recently) and any of the cascade into blah decks like living end, restore balance, ad nauseum. I havent had to actually use it against anything in the dozen+ games that I've played.
Oh, I didn't even notice the Dark Confidants in there. That's kind of ballsy, especially with a total CMC of 63 and, more importantly, about 1/4 of the deck hitting you for 3+ on a flip. Has this not been a problem for you?
I could see him being just too good to cut in general, but those are some big hits to take.
That particular list seems to be trying to play a fast, proactive control/disruption game. It wants to minimize the "Zur comes on turn 4" weakness by basically ruining the opponent's first 4 turns or so with the discard, Spreading Seas, and throwing removal at everything it can't deal with proactively. In contrast, the lists without Bob get their tempo from stuff like Remand.
Bob helps a ton in making sure you have answers before you need them, and lifegain off Steel of the Godhead counteracts his burn pretty well. It's just a shame the deck can't run Far // Away together with Bob.
I think bob is probably too powerful not to play and the life loss isn't that drastic. I'm pretty sure I dont want 4 though and i'm not super happy to draw it against burn or even affinity. Might try a 4th creeping tar pit which gets around abrupt decay and oblivion stone and swings back after liliana edicts your GOST.
I did play the 6:30 DE today and went 2-2.
R1 beat tron 2-1 while losing game 2 due to overextending into pyroclasm.
R2 beat scapeshift losing G1 after keeping a 6 card hand with 2 detention speheres and disfigure..ugh auto mull to 3 =/ Chaining spreading seas on his forest won me both games 2 and 3. He never hit double green.
R3 lost to burn due to some mediocre draws on my part. I thought i stabilized with a GOST and finks in G2 but he just peeled burn after burn and i didnt have enough time to kill him.
R4 lost to UW midrange which i havent played against in forever so i probably just played poorly. G1 he played a hawk with SOFAI and then SOFAF. G2 he just overwhelmed me with dudes and restoration angel.
The 10:30 DE went better:
R1 beat affinity 2-1- G1 and G3 by having zur chain detention spheres and other enchantments. Lost G2 to a t2 blood moon...the end.
R2 beat UWR 2-0 - just plowed through everything he had including a t5 batterskull which ate a detention sphere. disruption was pretty key here.
R3 lost to BG rock 0-2 - I brought a 4th spreading seas in which i probably shouldnt have done as he just drew the lands he needed and killed me with a bob that drew him like 4 cards. I pretty much always want to open this game with a T1 IOK =/ instead i kind of durdled around while he played several lilianas and bobs. A 4th creeping tar pit would have been gold here.
R4 beat burn 2-0. G1 stabilized with a DRS and GOST in play. G2 the guy kept a one lander with a bunch of one and 2 drop burn and never drew the second land
About being unhappy to draw Bob vs Affinity and Burn:
I'm not that experienced playing with Bob, but I've heard wisdom from other sources saying to leave Bob in against aggro matchups because those matchups are where you most desperately need to draw into your sideboard hate and removal.
Of course the life loss sucks when you're on a fast clock, but it seems like hitting into an answer will offset that by slowing the clock significantly (e.g. drawing Disfigure a turn early and hitting someone's equipped creature).
Edit: Taking out Confidant vs Burn makes sense, as Goblin Guide in particular helps the topdeck burn you harder by reducing the chance you see lands.
Also, your deck is heavier in black than other lists. Does this make it any harder to hardcast Detention Sphere when you draw it, or do you generally not have a problem with it?
About being unhappy to draw Bob vs Affinity and Burn:
I'm not that experienced playing with Bob, but I've heard wisdom from other sources saying to leave Bob in against aggro matchups because those matchups are where you most desperately need to draw into your sideboard hate and removal.
Of course the life loss sucks when you're on a fast clock, but it seems like hitting into an answer will offset that by slowing the clock significantly (e.g. drawing Disfigure a turn early and hitting someone's equipped creature).
Normally I agree but in the list he's playing he could easily hit himself for 3 or 4 off a Bob trigger. That's nigh unrecoverable unless you're already ahead. If you're on your back foot it's usually just game over. Affinity isn't a deck that Bob can chump block, so I would take him out. You want your sideboard, but if you hurt yourself you turn on their Blinkmoth Nexus as win conditions, since you're so close to being dead.
That said, Bob is just one of those "too good not to play," cards, like Deathrite Shaman. Doesn't necessarily fit in the deck but at the same time, Modern has some cards that are just too good.
Problem with aethermage is that those wizards use the element of surprise. But tutoring them let's the opponent know. Also it just sounds a little slow.
I'm really liking the meddling mage build with probe. Running that along side 7 turn 1 discards and you end up playing a pretty disrupting game. These decks have a very black feel to them, I love it. Question though - why are people using seachrome coast over darkslick shores? Wouldn't it make more sense to use shores for the turn 1 black?
To me, it seems like this deck wants to play disruption in the early game, play tempo with Geist in the midgame, and use Zur for later inevitability.
I think hand disruption is a good idea for Zur, but I'm not sure if I'd want to run the 7 discard spells together with Meddling Mage and Gitaxian Probe. Let's assume we run a lot of stuff as bare minimums, but have the full Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe + 7 discard package:
23 Lands
4 Meddling Mage
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Geist
3 Zur
2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Detention Sphere
This brings us to 48 cards, or 51 after 3 Path to Exile, leaving us little room to play with stuff like Remand, additional Detention Spheres, Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, and so on. At this point, do we go all the way with hand disruption (bringing in Tidehollow Sculler), do we try to add some versatility despite how few slots we have available, or do we try a different route entirely?
Here's a half-baked idea: What if we went with a mana denial plan? Combine Spreading Seas, Aven Mindcensor, and Ghost Quarter in the same list and a lot of decks get hit hard.Unfortunately, since we're 3 colors, we won't be able to run the full playset of Ghost Quarter.
Turning things blue messes with the mana bases of Jund, and Tron, and Mindcensor hurts Pod more than just hitting their fetchlands. UWR loses some removal when things become islands, but still has remand and Cryptic.
Given the amount of removal run by some decks, Jund in particular, Mindcensor may wind up as a 3-cost search hoser rather than a constant board presence. If we use Mindcensor like this, we'll need to support it with other instant-speed spells, which establishes Remand, Snapcaster, and Vendilion Clique as spots in the deck.
Incidentally, if we wind up being light on multicolored spells (running this package and no Tidehollow Sculler or Meddling Mage), we might be able to safely run 3 Ghost Quarter in the 24 lands.
So has anyone thought of dropping disfigure for Dead Weight? Basically trading instant speed for zur-tutorable removal with the added bonus that it shrinks what it doesn't kill to more managable proportions?
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Here's a half-baked idea: What if we went with a mana denial plan? Combine Spreading Seas, Aven Mindcensor, and Ghost Quarter in the same list and a lot of decks get hit hard.Unfortunately, since we're 3 colors, we won't be able to run the full playset of Ghost Quarter.
Turning things blue messes with the mana bases of Jund, and Tron, and Mindcensor hurts Pod more than just hitting their fetchlands. UWR loses some removal when things become islands, but still has remand and Cryptic.
Given the amount of removal run by some decks, Jund in particular, Mindcensor may wind up as a 3-cost search hoser rather than a constant board presence. If we use Mindcensor like this, we'll need to support it with other instant-speed spells, which establishes Remand, Snapcaster, and Vendilion Clique as spots in the deck.
Incidentally, if we wind up being light on multicolored spells (running this package and no Tidehollow Sculler or Meddling Mage), we might be able to safely run 3 Ghost Quarter in the 24 lands.
I've been running your 'LD' package against merfolk, but can't run mindcensor. that's a good idea if I splash white, but basically if they fetch, you seas it, and if they don't fetch you quarter it--its been ruining jund and tron and I even like it against twin--everything blue really messes them up as their real combo is red. I'd give it a shot, you'll probably do better than I do. I max out on seas and quarter btw--idk if you can.
Has anyone tried Tallowisp to lower the curve + the shoals ? I've been trying to make a ghostdad deck in modern (on hold for now) and this is zur deck is basically it. With the right card draw I can see the disadvantage being sufficiently mitigated.
To me, it seems like this deck wants to play disruption in the early game, play tempo with Geist in the midgame, and use Zur for later inevitability.
I think hand disruption is a good idea for Zur, but I'm not sure if I'd want to run the 7 discard spells together with Meddling Mage and Gitaxian Probe. Let's assume we run a lot of stuff as bare minimums, but have the full Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe + 7 discard package:
23 Lands
4 Meddling Mage
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Geist
3 Zur
2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Detention Sphere
This brings us to 48 cards, or 51 after 3 Path to Exile, leaving us little room to play with stuff like Remand, additional Detention Spheres, Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, and so on. At this point, do we go all the way with hand disruption (bringing in Tidehollow Sculler), do we try to add some versatility despite how few slots we have available, or do we try a different route entirely?
don't run the probes? You can just run 8 1cmc discard spells that show your opponents hand anyway. Your chances of seeing a t1 hand is pretty high, and in the games you can't just take an educated guess. Should open up at least 3 more spots for you. During the time I was testing an Esper Tempo package I ran 8 discard spells and 4 mages, it never seemed to be an issue for me, especially with remand also giving you information.
I like Probe because of the free cantrip. I'm also trying Spell Pierce instead of Remand because I'm noticing I have a hard time keeping 2 open for it. The deck feels more proactive rather than reactive, to me.
To me, it seems like this deck wants to play disruption in the early game, play tempo with Geist in the midgame, and use Zur for later inevitability.
I agree, but I think an alternative method is to run Remand + Aven Mindcensor instead of the extra hand hate. My reasoning is that Tron is a big deck right now, and if you make those changes you can actually grind out games against them. Hand hate is not as good against them if you don't hit their early set up, which you can't stop if they're on the play (Expedition Map, specifically). They have so many ways to find their cards that hitting just 1 of them doesn't usually stop anything. Also, as I'm sure those of you running 7 discard spells have noticed, you get a lot of extra dead draws later on that Remand just cycles through.
I think hand disruption is a good idea for Zur, but I'm not sure if I'd want to run the 7 discard spells together with Meddling Mage and Gitaxian Probe. Let's assume we run a lot of stuff as bare minimums, but have the full Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe + 7 discard package:
I don't think you want Remand in a deck that runs this disruption already. But in giving up Remand, I think you're giving up one of the best disruptive cards in the format. My problem with Mage is there is so much diversity in kill spells, regardless of deck, that you will likely just have a 2/2 that they will kill when it becomes relevant to them. With Tidehollow, you can immediately affect their plans and effectively force them to use a removal spell on him (freeing up Zur from removal spells).
Here's a half-baked idea: What if we went with a mana denial plan? Combine Spreading Seas, Aven Mindcensor, and Ghost Quarter in the same list and a lot of decks get hit hard.Unfortunately, since we're 3 colors, we won't be able to run the full playset of Ghost Quarter.
Turning things blue messes with the mana bases of Jund, and Tron, and Mindcensor hurts Pod more than just hitting their fetchlands. UWR loses some removal when things become islands, but still has remand and Cryptic.
Given the amount of removal run by some decks, Jund in particular, Mindcensor may wind up as a 3-cost search hoser rather than a constant board presence. If we use Mindcensor like this, we'll need to support it with other instant-speed spells, which establishes Remand, Snapcaster, and Vendilion Clique as spots in the deck.
Incidentally, if we wind up being light on multicolored spells (running this package and no Tidehollow Sculler or Meddling Mage), we might be able to safely run 3 Ghost Quarter in the 24 lands.
I'm all for Aven Mindcensor since his ability shuts off Tron and Pod decks, while leaving a 2/1 flier to block Affinity and Infect. I'm not for Ghost Quarter, though. You need to get 4 lands at least in this deck, you don't want to attrition lands out. I like 2x Tectonic Edge for the random land you don't want to deal with (Eye of Ugin, random manland), but Ghost Quarter doesn't even attrition well. Even with Mindcensor you're not going to be doing much more than Tec edge, since you won't be able to use this interaction before turn 4.
So has anyone thought of dropping disfigure for Dead Weight? Basically trading instant speed for zur-tutorable removal with the added bonus that it shrinks what it doesn't kill to more managable proportions?
The thing is Zur can fetch Detention Sphere, which kills without questions. Disfigure is better than Dead Weight in a lot more scenarios, as it doesn't pump Goyf, can be used at instant speed (relevant against Scavenging Ooze), and can even make combat tricks. Dead Weight sticks around, sure, but most of the time I don't see its effect being worth the sorcery speed or Goyf pumping (Disfigure also turns on our Deathrite Shamans -2 life).
Has anyone tried Tallowisp to lower the curve + the shoals ? I've been trying to make a ghostdad deck in modern (on hold for now) and this is zur deck is basically it. With the right card draw I can see the disadvantage being sufficiently mitigated.
I don't see this being worth playing. You don't care so much to hunt up your enchantments as to sneak them in for free. On top of that, having 4 cards in the deck that turn your Tallowisp into anything other than a 1/3 seems like a cute but overall useless card.
I've been running your 'LD' package against merfolk, but can't run mindcensor. that's a good idea if I splash white, but basically if they fetch, you seas it, and if they don't fetch you quarter it--its been ruining jund and tron and I even like it against twin--everything blue really messes them up as their real combo is red. I'd give it a shot, you'll probably do better than I do. I max out on seas and quarter btw--idk if you can.
In all honesty, I don't have the money to sink into a modern deck at the moment, and I can't playtest online because it's bad for my productivity.
I'm just brainstorming with this deck because I like the concept and I'm trying to build toward it.
don't run the probes? You can just run 8 1cmc discard spells that show your opponents hand anyway. Your chances of seeing a t1 hand is pretty high, and in the games you can't just take an educated guess. Should open up at least 3 more spots for you. During the time I was testing an Esper Tempo package I ran 8 discard spells and 4 mages, it never seemed to be an issue for me, especially with remand also giving you information.
ghost quarter seems so bad if you don't have mindcensor, it seems to high variance a strategy
This is also why I'm hesitant to run more than 3 Quarters. I want to minimize the impact of the colorless mana on the color distribution, especially when you're trying to hit all 3 colors in the first 2 turns (a discard spell into Meddling Mage).
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Thanks, noted.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Marsh Flats
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
2 Watery Grave
1 Island
3 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Thoughtseize
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Path to Exile
3 Disfigure
3 Spreading Seas
3 Dark Confidant
2 Steel of the Godhead
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Detention Sphere
4 Zur the Enchanter
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Spreading Seas
2 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
3 Negate
2 Stony Silence
1 Rest in Peace
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Rule of Law
I beat all real decks (Jund, tron, UWR, delver, affinity, RG aggro, something else) except one was a weird mono green ramp deck. No idea what it was really doing but this list felt like the real deal.
I think maybe the mana base can be tweaked but everything else felt really solid.
How is Spreading Seas working out for you?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'm mainly listing enchantments that have interesting and unique effects at that point. In the current version that I play, you're right, Porphyry Nodes would be terrible. In a version that is more control oriented with less creatures, it is a conceivable sideboard option against decks like Affinity or Elves. You're probably right it's never worth it, I just wanted to have a bank of "maybe"s.
Forgot to add Story Circle to the list. Added it now. I've run it maindeck before but against a decent amount of decks you just don't want to see it. Also, getting multiple white mana isn't necessarily easy unless you focus on it at the very start of the game with your fetchlands.
Cool, I'll add your list to my primer. Looks like everyone's following the Gerry Thompson inspired list so far. Spreading Seas worth that many copies main?
I'm curious why you have rule of law. What combo decks are you playing against? Why not just play more rest in peace vs living end and jund?
It cantrips and with 23 lands and 4 drops in the deck, cantrips are pretty relevant. Its pretty effective against jund, not just for mandland but also as a turn two play on any of their lands. Its a must have against tron since your only other relevant disruption against them is thoughtseize. And its a good answer to manlands in affinity.
It wasn't all that great against scapeshift unfortunately.
Rule of law is for storm (admittedly i havent seen it in dailies recently) and any of the cascade into blah decks like living end, restore balance, ad nauseum. I havent had to actually use it against anything in the dozen+ games that I've played.
I could see him being just too good to cut in general, but those are some big hits to take.
That particular list seems to be trying to play a fast, proactive control/disruption game. It wants to minimize the "Zur comes on turn 4" weakness by basically ruining the opponent's first 4 turns or so with the discard, Spreading Seas, and throwing removal at everything it can't deal with proactively. In contrast, the lists without Bob get their tempo from stuff like Remand.
Bob helps a ton in making sure you have answers before you need them, and lifegain off Steel of the Godhead counteracts his burn pretty well. It's just a shame the deck can't run Far // Away together with Bob.
I did play the 6:30 DE today and went 2-2.
R1 beat tron 2-1 while losing game 2 due to overextending into pyroclasm.
R2 beat scapeshift losing G1 after keeping a 6 card hand with 2 detention speheres and disfigure..ugh auto mull to 3 =/ Chaining spreading seas on his forest won me both games 2 and 3. He never hit double green.
R3 lost to burn due to some mediocre draws on my part. I thought i stabilized with a GOST and finks in G2 but he just peeled burn after burn and i didnt have enough time to kill him.
R4 lost to UW midrange which i havent played against in forever so i probably just played poorly. G1 he played a hawk with SOFAI and then SOFAF. G2 he just overwhelmed me with dudes and restoration angel.
The 10:30 DE went better:
R1 beat affinity 2-1- G1 and G3 by having zur chain detention spheres and other enchantments. Lost G2 to a t2 blood moon...the end.
R2 beat UWR 2-0 - just plowed through everything he had including a t5 batterskull which ate a detention sphere. disruption was pretty key here.
R3 lost to BG rock 0-2 - I brought a 4th spreading seas in which i probably shouldnt have done as he just drew the lands he needed and killed me with a bob that drew him like 4 cards. I pretty much always want to open this game with a T1 IOK =/ instead i kind of durdled around while he played several lilianas and bobs. A 4th creeping tar pit would have been gold here.
R4 beat burn 2-0. G1 stabilized with a DRS and GOST in play. G2 the guy kept a one lander with a bunch of one and 2 drop burn and never drew the second land
I'm not that experienced playing with Bob, but I've heard wisdom from other sources saying to leave Bob in against aggro matchups because those matchups are where you most desperately need to draw into your sideboard hate and removal.
Of course the life loss sucks when you're on a fast clock, but it seems like hitting into an answer will offset that by slowing the clock significantly (e.g. drawing Disfigure a turn early and hitting someone's equipped creature).
Edit: Taking out Confidant vs Burn makes sense, as Goblin Guide in particular helps the topdeck burn you harder by reducing the chance you see lands.
Also, your deck is heavier in black than other lists. Does this make it any harder to hardcast Detention Sphere when you draw it, or do you generally not have a problem with it?
Normally I agree but in the list he's playing he could easily hit himself for 3 or 4 off a Bob trigger. That's nigh unrecoverable unless you're already ahead. If you're on your back foot it's usually just game over. Affinity isn't a deck that Bob can chump block, so I would take him out. You want your sideboard, but if you hurt yourself you turn on their Blinkmoth Nexus as win conditions, since you're so close to being dead.
That said, Bob is just one of those "too good not to play," cards, like Deathrite Shaman. Doesn't necessarily fit in the deck but at the same time, Modern has some cards that are just too good.
It's an instant speed tutor for Snapcaster Mage, Clique, Nameless Inversion, or Zur.
I'm really liking the meddling mage build with probe. Running that along side 7 turn 1 discards and you end up playing a pretty disrupting game. These decks have a very black feel to them, I love it. Question though - why are people using seachrome coast over darkslick shores? Wouldn't it make more sense to use shores for the turn 1 black?
Draft My Cube!
I think hand disruption is a good idea for Zur, but I'm not sure if I'd want to run the 7 discard spells together with Meddling Mage and Gitaxian Probe. Let's assume we run a lot of stuff as bare minimums, but have the full Meddling Mage + Gitaxian Probe + 7 discard package:
23 Lands
4 Meddling Mage
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Geist
3 Zur
2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Detention Sphere
This brings us to 48 cards, or 51 after 3 Path to Exile, leaving us little room to play with stuff like Remand, additional Detention Spheres, Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, and so on. At this point, do we go all the way with hand disruption (bringing in Tidehollow Sculler), do we try to add some versatility despite how few slots we have available, or do we try a different route entirely?
Here's a half-baked idea: What if we went with a mana denial plan? Combine Spreading Seas, Aven Mindcensor, and Ghost Quarter in the same list and a lot of decks get hit hard.Unfortunately, since we're 3 colors, we won't be able to run the full playset of Ghost Quarter.
Turning things blue messes with the mana bases of Jund, and Tron, and Mindcensor hurts Pod more than just hitting their fetchlands. UWR loses some removal when things become islands, but still has remand and Cryptic.
Given the amount of removal run by some decks, Jund in particular, Mindcensor may wind up as a 3-cost search hoser rather than a constant board presence. If we use Mindcensor like this, we'll need to support it with other instant-speed spells, which establishes Remand, Snapcaster, and Vendilion Clique as spots in the deck.
Incidentally, if we wind up being light on multicolored spells (running this package and no Tidehollow Sculler or Meddling Mage), we might be able to safely run 3 Ghost Quarter in the 24 lands.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
I've been running your 'LD' package against merfolk, but can't run mindcensor. that's a good idea if I splash white, but basically if they fetch, you seas it, and if they don't fetch you quarter it--its been ruining jund and tron and I even like it against twin--everything blue really messes them up as their real combo is red. I'd give it a shot, you'll probably do better than I do. I max out on seas and quarter btw--idk if you can.
don't run the probes? You can just run 8 1cmc discard spells that show your opponents hand anyway. Your chances of seeing a t1 hand is pretty high, and in the games you can't just take an educated guess. Should open up at least 3 more spots for you. During the time I was testing an Esper Tempo package I ran 8 discard spells and 4 mages, it never seemed to be an issue for me, especially with remand also giving you information.
4 Meddling Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Zur the Enchanter
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (22):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Path to exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Spell Piece
2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Detention Sphere
1 Dead Weight
Lands (24):
4 Marsh Flats
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Seachrome Coast
2 River of Tears
2 Creeping Tar pit
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Swamp
1 plains
1 island
1 Baneslayer Angel
3 negate
2 rest in peace
2 spreading seas
2 threads of disloyalty
1 ghostly prison
1 stony silence
2 engineered explosives
2 dismember
I like Probe because of the free cantrip. I'm also trying Spell Pierce instead of Remand because I'm noticing I have a hard time keeping 2 open for it. The deck feels more proactive rather than reactive, to me.
Draft My Cube!
I agree, but I think an alternative method is to run Remand + Aven Mindcensor instead of the extra hand hate. My reasoning is that Tron is a big deck right now, and if you make those changes you can actually grind out games against them. Hand hate is not as good against them if you don't hit their early set up, which you can't stop if they're on the play (Expedition Map, specifically). They have so many ways to find their cards that hitting just 1 of them doesn't usually stop anything. Also, as I'm sure those of you running 7 discard spells have noticed, you get a lot of extra dead draws later on that Remand just cycles through.
I don't think you want Remand in a deck that runs this disruption already. But in giving up Remand, I think you're giving up one of the best disruptive cards in the format. My problem with Mage is there is so much diversity in kill spells, regardless of deck, that you will likely just have a 2/2 that they will kill when it becomes relevant to them. With Tidehollow, you can immediately affect their plans and effectively force them to use a removal spell on him (freeing up Zur from removal spells).
I'm all for Aven Mindcensor since his ability shuts off Tron and Pod decks, while leaving a 2/1 flier to block Affinity and Infect. I'm not for Ghost Quarter, though. You need to get 4 lands at least in this deck, you don't want to attrition lands out. I like 2x Tectonic Edge for the random land you don't want to deal with (Eye of Ugin, random manland), but Ghost Quarter doesn't even attrition well. Even with Mindcensor you're not going to be doing much more than Tec edge, since you won't be able to use this interaction before turn 4.
The thing is Zur can fetch Detention Sphere, which kills without questions. Disfigure is better than Dead Weight in a lot more scenarios, as it doesn't pump Goyf, can be used at instant speed (relevant against Scavenging Ooze), and can even make combat tricks. Dead Weight sticks around, sure, but most of the time I don't see its effect being worth the sorcery speed or Goyf pumping (Disfigure also turns on our Deathrite Shamans -2 life).
I don't see this being worth playing. You don't care so much to hunt up your enchantments as to sneak them in for free. On top of that, having 4 cards in the deck that turn your Tallowisp into anything other than a 1/3 seems like a cute but overall useless card.
In all honesty, I don't have the money to sink into a modern deck at the moment, and I can't playtest online because it's bad for my productivity.
I'm just brainstorming with this deck because I like the concept and I'm trying to build toward it.
You're right. I also forgot about Remand.
This is also why I'm hesitant to run more than 3 Quarters. I want to minimize the impact of the colorless mana on the color distribution, especially when you're trying to hit all 3 colors in the first 2 turns (a discard spell into Meddling Mage).