question but would you consider running lightning greaves in the maindeck so you can turn 2 greaves and haveGeist of saint traft and zur the enchanter have haste when you cast them turns 3 or 4? i'm thinking of building the deck but my biggest fear is someone knee caping zur right out of the gate, greaves seems like a cheap way of avoiding this, plus the enchantments can still attach from zur's ability despite greaves's shroud.
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As far as I can tell there's only a handful of ways to get Zur off the battlefield (2x Lightning Bolts, Path to Exile, Supreme Verdict), two of those have slight upsides; getting rid of your opponent's 2 Bolt's or getting a free land after getting PtE'd. So, what I'm trying to say is I don't really see the need to have a 2 mana cost artifact in the main for a "just in case" scenario. I would much rather just have counterspells in hand to deal with my opponent's counters, because that's the only immediate answer I see for Zur. Abrupt Decay can't even touch him. Plus, if you're running Dig Through Time in your main or a Snapcaster Mage, then your counter gives you extra use (either as mana for DtT or a flashback counter).
Honestly, I'm waiting to see if Treasure Cruise gets the ban hammer before I make anymore tweaks to the deck. Don't want to spend money on something I won't use post Pro Tour FRF.
On a side note, let's get this forum fired up again! I like seeing the renewed interest in this deck and would love to get some fresh new takes on cards for this deck like you had TheRogue. Been running this deck for almost a year now and I'm ready to see what else will find its way in....like maybe the new Monastery Siege.
biggest thing I want to give Zur haste, as well as saint traft, thats why I can't shake the idea of using lightning greaves. the shroud feels like bonus.
in standard I use to use artful dodge with geist of saint traft to ensure he connected with my opponent putting them on a serious clock, I think it would work well in modern again.
i know brain maggots aren't 100 agreed upon but i like the option to bring them in off of Zur, for chumps or extra discard.
wind zendikon I may or may not keep this in, it looked like a solid early game agressive card and I can get it off zur as well, it also replaces it land is uses, and flying.
i put in 4 1 of enchantments for tool boxing.
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4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Zur the Enchanter
1 Darkblast
2 Detention Sphere
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
3 Spreading Seas
2 Steel of the Godhead
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Remand
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Bitterblossom
1 Disfigure
2 Snapcaster Mage
SB: 1 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 1 Ghostly Prison
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Timely Reinforcements
SB: 1 Illness in the Ranks
SB: 3 Negate
Thats the list i run, i am not a fan of probe to much as i dont run meddling mage, i also dropped thassa, even though scrying is very strong i just didnt seem to ever want it when i drew it.. testing out 2 bitterblossoms, this way we usually have a strong turn 2 play, either sculler, holding up remand, or blossom. Let me know what you guys think!
I like keeping Thassa in for the Scry, Unblockable and 5/5 Indestructable. Toying with the idea of removing Probe's for Blossom's. Also, still considering Master of the Feast
I might throw thassa back in, and i think you should throw atleast 1 Detention Sphere because it is a hard problem for delver mostly young pyro and his tokens, along with detaining any other threats, and i think 3 digs is ALOT id go to 1 or 2. and on Master, yes its a good clock and beat stick, but your opponent might be happy drawing 2 cards... idk let me know how it works out
biggest thing I want to give Zur haste, as well as saint traft, thats why I can't shake the idea of using lightning greaves. the shroud feels like bonus.
in standard I use to use artful dodge with geist of saint traft to ensure he connected with my opponent putting them on a serious clock, I think it would work well in modern again.
i know brain maggots aren't 100 agreed upon but i like the option to bring them in off of Zur, for chumps or extra discard.
wind zendikon I may or may not keep this in, it looked like a solid early game agressive card and I can get it off zur as well, it also replaces it land is uses, and flying.
i put in 4 1 of enchantments for tool boxing.
I like where your head's at on this one, but I would consider a few things:
-Artful Dodge is a good card, but for me it just doesn't feel good enough for modern compared to Thoughtseize, Bolt, Probe. Thassa helps do the same thing for 1 more mana on a stick, but I can see how it would be easier to pay 2 and give 2 creatures unblockable. To each his own though and I don't see any fault in your choice, but you could also run some Creeping Tar Pit's and Steel of the Godhead's in the main to have some unblockables.
-I would definitely take out the Wind Zendikon and replace them with counterspells, just so you can handle a more reactive role.
-Maybe think about switching the Polluted Delta and Flooded Strand numbers, as you only have 8 black mana symbols and 10 white.
-Another card I like and am considering running again is Eidolon of Rhetoric. Helps a lot once Zur is on the field
Like I said earlier, I like your ideas and if you have anymore feel free to share them. I'm nowhere near the level of player I'd like to be with this deck, so I'm eager to learn new things that are available to it and situational sideboard cards as well.
steel of the godhead is definitely the best enchant creature for the esper deck, my main concern is my opponent will have a creature on field, and at end of attackers pop the steel so they can put there bigger blocker in front of geist. I see artful dodge as a means around this bad possibility.
with thoughtseize I should be able to piece together whether such a thing is going to happen ahead of time. perhaps my thinking on artful dodge is slightly flawed when i say this. I'll definitely consider cutting that card.
ur flys and fetches the enchants very unlike anything will be bothering him. connecting with geist turn 4 definitly a sweet spot you'd like to achieve.
i'll definitly hack the wind zendikons but i'm just not sure what counter spell i would want to put there? I already on a discard plan as well.
additionally this would be cutting a creature slot.
if i cut greaves, verdict and/or 1/2 tool box enchantments that opens up 2 or more spots for discard/counter spells as well
-------------------------
random idea I was considering was lingering souls with single honor of the pure, a soft synergy that pumps everyone,
if i did that i'd cut 3 maggots for tidehollow sculler since he's white. keept 1 maggot for zur to tutor up if needed.
-------------------------
these two creatures looked interesting, but I haven't tested them at all, and they don't pass the bolt test : P, but still maybe useable? Daxos of Meletis and/or Shadowmage Infiltrator
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I've always liked this deck. I've been thinking about making content and pointing people towards this forums to try and drum up some interest.
In general I think it's actually a decent Geist shell with plenty of disruption to clear the way for him. Also sometimes you just get free wins by putting Steel of the Godhead on Geist and punching people to death.
Speculating that Ancestral Visions comes off the ban list... i assume this deck would run 4 of?
i'd probably jam them in, no a full 4 of. they take 4 turns just to resolve. though given the 3 mana curve of the decks whole on could run cascade to get 3 draw faster, like ardent plea, such a theme would take some retooling and testing.
----------
i feel like detention sphere is going to be perfect for all of those chumps playing monastery mentor token decks in the coming weeks.
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steel of the godhead is definitely the best enchant creature for the esper deck, my main concern is my opponent will have a creature on field, and at end of attackers pop the steel so they can put there bigger blocker in front of geist. I see artful dodge as a means around this bad possibility.
with thoughtseize I should be able to piece together whether such a thing is going to happen ahead of time. perhaps my thinking on artful dodge is slightly flawed when i say this. I'll definitely consider cutting that card.
ur flys and fetches the enchants very unlike anything will be bothering him. connecting with geist turn 4 definitly a sweet spot you'd like to achieve.
i'll definitly hack the wind zendikons but i'm just not sure what counter spell i would want to put there? I already on a discard plan as well.
additionally this would be cutting a creature slot.
if i cut greaves, verdict and/or 1/2 tool box enchantments that opens up 2 or more spots for discard/counter spells as well
-------------------------
random idea I was considering was lingering souls with single honor of the pure, a soft synergy that pumps everyone,
if i did that i'd cut 3 maggots for tidehollow sculler since he's white. keept 1 maggot for zur to tutor up if needed.
-------------------------
these two creatures looked interesting, but I haven't tested them at all, and they don't pass the bolt test : P, but still maybe useable? Daxos of Meletis and/or Shadowmage Infiltrator
If you decide to add Daxos, then I would go ahead and switch out Scullers or Maggots for Meddling Mage's and play a Cavern of Souls or 2.
I've always liked this deck. I've been thinking about making content and pointing people towards this forums to try and drum up some interest.
In general I think it's actually a decent Geist shell with plenty of disruption to clear the way for him. Also sometimes you just get free wins by putting Steel of the Godhead on Geist and punching people to death.
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Yeah I like the idea of at least one of them in the side. I would inner change them in a single slot depending on the current meta. A lot of what is in my side has a way of interacting with most tier 1 threats
meddling mage in the main board, wouldn't you be worried about pyroclasm or spot removal top decks?
as I'm tinkering with the deck wouldn't runed halo be better in this spot? to me it seems like there are less threats in the meta that can deal with it over a 2/2 creature.
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Yes, but Runed Halo doesn't interact with steel of the godhead like the mage does. Honestly, I've considered both in the deck.
On another note, the new banned list just freed up 2 slots in my deck (Dig's), so I'm considering either Spreading Seas or Liliana of the Veil. Any thoughts on the subject? Lili will rise in price again with Cruise gone, thank God I got a playset for $165 a couple weeks back.
my experience with the meta has been through the lens of piloting other decks, the current expectation seems to be jund and junk to fill pod's void, both of which will limp if color denied, so on that note i'm going to vote for spreading seas. turns off a man land as well.
until i see some meta game result i'm not all that certain what liliana will be gaining advantage over for jund/junk (or any other deck that runs her).
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The best version against G/B decks has always been the spreading seas deck with Thassa and threads. It's very good and puts a lot of pressure on their abrupt decays. I've won a lot of games against goyf decks by attacking with Thassa.
I had something come up very last minute and had to cancel. I did send my deck with my friends though but he had never played it before and went 3-3 I think. He is a skilled player with a GP top 8 and wanted to play the deck because in testing I had a high win % against him playing Ascendancy and UR Delver.
It doesn't matter now though as that version of the deck I was working on is no longer relevant for this meta and things will have to be moved around.
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I agree. First page is the best, that's how I started and read all the posts. Also, look up Zur Aggro on YouTube
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Honestly, I'm waiting to see if Treasure Cruise gets the ban hammer before I make anymore tweaks to the deck. Don't want to spend money on something I won't use post Pro Tour FRF.
On a side note, let's get this forum fired up again! I like seeing the renewed interest in this deck and would love to get some fresh new takes on cards for this deck like you had TheRogue. Been running this deck for almost a year now and I'm ready to see what else will find its way in....like maybe the new Monastery Siege.
this is the list I want to try in tournament. looking for advice on my card choices several of them i'm not sure if they are the right path or not.
4 zur the enchanter
4 brain maggot
4 wind zendikon
4 serum vision
4 thoughtseize
2 artful dodge
1 supreme verdict
3 steel of the godhead
2 detention sphere
1 rest in peace
1 threads of disloyalty
1 Aura of Silence
1 ghostly prison
2 faerie conclave
4 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
2 watery grave
3 hallowed fountain
1 swamp
1 plains
1 island
2 darkslick shore
2 seachrome coast
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
biggest thing I want to give Zur haste, as well as saint traft, thats why I can't shake the idea of using lightning greaves. the shroud feels like bonus.
in standard I use to use artful dodge with geist of saint traft to ensure he connected with my opponent putting them on a serious clock, I think it would work well in modern again.
i know brain maggots aren't 100 agreed upon but i like the option to bring them in off of Zur, for chumps or extra discard.
wind zendikon I may or may not keep this in, it looked like a solid early game agressive card and I can get it off zur as well, it also replaces it land is uses, and flying.
i put in 4 1 of enchantments for tool boxing.
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1 Vendilion Clique
3 Zur the Enchanter
1 Darkblast
2 Detention Sphere
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
3 Spreading Seas
2 Steel of the Godhead
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Remand
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Bitterblossom
1 Disfigure
2 Snapcaster Mage
SB: 1 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 1 Ghostly Prison
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Timely Reinforcements
SB: 1 Illness in the Ranks
SB: 3 Negate
Thats the list i run, i am not a fan of probe to much as i dont run meddling mage, i also dropped thassa, even though scrying is very strong i just didnt seem to ever want it when i drew it.. testing out 2 bitterblossoms, this way we usually have a strong turn 2 play, either sculler, holding up remand, or blossom. Let me know what you guys think!
3 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
3 Zur the Enchanter
Spells (26)
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Path to Exile
1 Spell Snare
3 Thoughtseize
2 Vapor Snag
2 Remand
2 Detention Sphere
3 Steel of the Godhead
3 Dig Through Time
1 Illness in the Ranks
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stony Silence
1 Blind Obedience
1 Psychic Surgery
2 Negate
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Nevermore
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Threads of Disloyalty
I like keeping Thassa in for the Scry, Unblockable and 5/5 Indestructable. Toying with the idea of removing Probe's for Blossom's. Also, still considering Master of the Feast
I like where your head's at on this one, but I would consider a few things:
-Artful Dodge is a good card, but for me it just doesn't feel good enough for modern compared to Thoughtseize, Bolt, Probe. Thassa helps do the same thing for 1 more mana on a stick, but I can see how it would be easier to pay 2 and give 2 creatures unblockable. To each his own though and I don't see any fault in your choice, but you could also run some Creeping Tar Pit's and Steel of the Godhead's in the main to have some unblockables.
-I would definitely take out the Wind Zendikon and replace them with counterspells, just so you can handle a more reactive role.
-Maybe think about switching the Polluted Delta and Flooded Strand numbers, as you only have 8 black mana symbols and 10 white.
-Another card I like and am considering running again is Eidolon of Rhetoric. Helps a lot once Zur is on the field
Like I said earlier, I like your ideas and if you have anymore feel free to share them. I'm nowhere near the level of player I'd like to be with this deck, so I'm eager to learn new things that are available to it and situational sideboard cards as well.
with thoughtseize I should be able to piece together whether such a thing is going to happen ahead of time. perhaps my thinking on artful dodge is slightly flawed when i say this. I'll definitely consider cutting that card.
ur flys and fetches the enchants very unlike anything will be bothering him. connecting with geist turn 4 definitly a sweet spot you'd like to achieve.
i'll definitly hack the wind zendikons but i'm just not sure what counter spell i would want to put there? I already on a discard plan as well.
additionally this would be cutting a creature slot.
if i cut greaves, verdict and/or 1/2 tool box enchantments that opens up 2 or more spots for discard/counter spells as well
-------------------------
random idea I was considering was lingering souls with single honor of the pure, a soft synergy that pumps everyone,
if i did that i'd cut 3 maggots for tidehollow sculler since he's white. keept 1 maggot for zur to tutor up if needed.
-------------------------
these two creatures looked interesting, but I haven't tested them at all, and they don't pass the bolt test : P, but still maybe useable? Daxos of Meletis and/or Shadowmage Infiltrator
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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In general I think it's actually a decent Geist shell with plenty of disruption to clear the way for him. Also sometimes you just get free wins by putting Steel of the Godhead on Geist and punching people to death.
https://www.youtube.com/c/GreatNate
i'd probably jam them in, no a full 4 of. they take 4 turns just to resolve. though given the 3 mana curve of the decks whole on could run cascade to get 3 draw faster, like ardent plea, such a theme would take some retooling and testing.
----------
i feel like detention sphere is going to be perfect for all of those chumps playing monastery mentor token decks in the coming weeks.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
If you decide to add Daxos, then I would go ahead and switch out Scullers or Maggots for Meddling Mage's and play a Cavern of Souls or 2.
Definitely do that man. I would love to see some online play-testing of this deck since the latest I've seen was back when Deathrite was still legal.
I was thinking of running a few as 1 ofs, not just multiples for red.
1 circle of protection: artifacts for affinity and where ever inkmoth nexus shows up
1 cop: green for pod decks and others
1 cop: red for red decks of course.
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as I'm tinkering with the deck wouldn't runed halo be better in this spot? to me it seems like there are less threats in the meta that can deal with it over a 2/2 creature.
Twitter- RogueSource.
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On another note, the new banned list just freed up 2 slots in my deck (Dig's), so I'm considering either Spreading Seas or Liliana of the Veil. Any thoughts on the subject? Lili will rise in price again with Cruise gone, thank God I got a playset for $165 a couple weeks back.
with them i would expect liliana to come back as well. my fear is liliana of the veil has for a long time been geist of saint traft natural enemy, which could just as easily reach for zur the enchanter as well.
until i see some meta game result i'm not all that certain what liliana will be gaining advantage over for jund/junk (or any other deck that runs her).
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4 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Zur the Enchanter
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (20)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Spell Snare
2 Thoughtseize
2 Vapor Snag
2 Remand
2 Detention Sphere
2 Spreading Seas
2 Steel of the Godhead
1 Illness in the Ranks
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stony Silence
1 Blind Obedience
1 Psychic Surgery
2 Negate
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Nevermore
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Threads of Disloyalty
I think I may cut back either 1 Tidehollow Sculler or 1 Path to Exile to put Thassa back in. I enjoyed the card advantage when she was in the deck.
It doesn't matter now though as that version of the deck I was working on is no longer relevant for this meta and things will have to be moved around.