can somebody here help me out with the Bant version?
I'm looking for some more removal besides Path and Bant Charm. With these two we got really good outs for bigger creatures (Goyf, Rhino etc.) but is there maybe anything that trades efficiently with small creatures? Hopefully a 1cmc, maybe 2cmc card?
can somebody here help me out with the Bant version?
I'm looking for some more removal besides Path and Bant Charm. With these two we got really good outs for bigger creatures (Goyf, Rhino etc.) but is there maybe anything that trades efficiently with small creatures? Hopefully a 1cmc, maybe 2cmc card?
So, are the 4cmc creatures too slow in the deck? From my experience they have been perfect and I almost always want to see one in my opening hand every time. Cards like Venser, Shaper Savant and Mystic Snake are fantastic, especially with Ruse. I actually had tested a singleton copy of crystal shard in my version because they cannot tap out for a creature (well they can but it doesn't get them ahead on board) and it also wrecks their curve. I am interested to know if we can maybe go back to UG because Tinfoilhat said that version was good against all the decks that are performing well right now (minus affinity). Thoughts?
@Tinfoilhat: Do you mind posting your thoughts/lists on/for the new meta?
I tried a UGw list today and I continue to have problems with Burn and Lingering Souls. Does anyone have any tips here?
I am currently experimenting with cutting the Æther Vial for Noble Hierarch. The list and an short report will be editied into this post shortly.
Round 1: Burn 1-2
Game 1 I never got into the game, game 2 I totally stomped him after boarding 11 cards and both of us mull to 5.
In game 3 he opened with 3 Goblin Guide into Monestary Swiftspear and Eidolon of the Great Revel and has some burn to finish me.
Overall the games were not that intresting but at fridays FNM I also played against burn for 7 games and only managed to win 2 of them. I never really get to stabilize even if I gain 5 or 6 life off of Timely Reinforcements or Feed the Clan.
Round 2: Junk 2-1 (a friend from our car)
Game 1 on the draw he mulls to 5 and me to 3 and never find my 2nd manasource before getting beat down in the air by Spirits.
Game 2 I can grind him out after he resolves a turn 4 Thrun, the Last Troll with a 3/4 Tarmogoyf that hits as a 4/5 thanks to Noble Hierarch and a Sower of Temptation that I can blink once with Restoration Angel to steal his chumpblockers for my Goyf and chump his Troll.
Game 3 I resolve a turn 1 Noble Hierarch into turn 2 Tarmogoyf and Serum Visions into some removal and turn 4 Batterskull that gets to play with my Goyf and later Restoration Angel.
This is the MU I build the deck for.
Round 3: Junk 1-2 (another friend from our car)
Game 1 I keep a questionable hand and get wrecked by Thoughtseize -> Tarmogoyf -> Loxodon Smiter -> Siege Rhino -> Restoration Angel in response to my Path to Exile on the Rhino after talking him into running the Angel in the first place during our ride to the site.
Game 2 I get to implement my plan of outvalueing the Junk deck and finishing him with the Cryptic Command lock after a 16 turn slugfest.
We notice that we don't have that much time left in the round and both mull to 6 to find an agressive hand. He starts with one Goyf which I can remove and then burries me in Spirits from 3 Lingering Souls while I struggle to race him on the ground with Goyf and Mirran Crusader. In the end I am 2 life short which I lost to a mistake on turn 2 when I played a Flooded Strand instead of the Plains I had in hand.
First thoughts about the deck and tournament:
Pros:
- the deck beat Junk as it was intended to to
- all creature matchups look good
- Noble Hierarch have overperformed (acceleration and Exalted)
- I did not really miss the Æther Vials
- Mirran Crusader was a house
- 21 lands, 4 Noble and 4 Serum Visions lets you curve out well
Cons:
- I need to get more reps in with the deck to reduce the amount of mistakes and mental taxation (I was quite exausted mentally after 5 rounds)
- Lingering Souls and swarms of small creatures are a problem
- fliers are some sort of a problem
- I think I have the wrong angle on the Burn-MU
- some MUs seem overboarded
- the Bant Charms have underperformed and will get cut in the future
In the Future I would like to keep testing the deck without Æther Vial and move more to a Midrange-Control-Deck maybe testing out Worship for the Burn- and Aggo-MUs and Serra Avenger for defence in the air and a good flying clock. I will keep working on the deck and feel like I am on to something that I will like in the end.
I am looking forward to your comments and questions.
So, are the 4cmc creatures too slow in the deck? From my experience they have been perfect and I almost always want to see one in my opening hand every time. Cards like Venser, Shaper Savant and Mystic Snake are fantastic, especially with Ruse. I actually had tested a singleton copy of crystal shard in my version because they cannot tap out for a creature (well they can but it doesn't get them ahead on board) and it also wrecks their curve. I am interested to know if we can maybe go back to UG because Tinfoilhat said that version was good against all the decks that are performing well right now (minus affinity). Thoughts?
Venser and Snake are nice, viable cards for the deck. The thing is our lategame is already pretty good. It's where we want to get. The problem of this deck is getting there and neither Venser nor Snake help with that.
If you're meta isn't that fast you can surely include a 1 of to make your endgame even better but our flexspots are tight and I usually rather play another cheap answer to survive long enough to set up our lock or just grind out our opponent with the huge CA we generate.
To make it short: Venser and Snake tend to be best when we're already winning anyway
Thanks a lot for the report blub_master!
Interesting take on Eternal Ruse, although I don't even know if you can call a deck without Vial and Ruse still Eternal Ruse:D
Looks way more like a 'normal' Bant Midrange deck with the option for a late game lock.
Here are some questions for you:
Are Shackles really playable with only 9 Islands? For me it seems like you overcommit on shocklands to make shackles playable but playing so many shocks is part of your problem in the burn MU (I'd say drop the shackles and replace 2-3 shocks with Hinterland Harbor and the likes.)
Why do you play Thirst for Knowledge? With only 3 MB artifacts the card doesn't seem to fit well.
Against Lingering Souls (and all other kind of tokens) Engineered Explosives do a nice work. The card is also awesome in the Bogles MU and should at least find a spot in your SB.
why would you play Serra Avenger without Vial? The card wont be online before turn 4 and dies to Bolt. Why not play more Restoration Angels instead? Can be played even a turn earlier than the Avenger with Hierarch and is overall way more versatile.
So I played some matches today, won against Twin (2:1 awesome counterwars!), Infect and Merfolk (Command lock is awesome, he had 5 Lords on the board but couldn't do anything) but got crushed against Tron (0:2).
I even managed to deal with their early Wurmcoils and Karn but once they land Eye of Ugin they can just search up Emrakul...
I can see the Bant version being clearly better than RUG here (Path+ Bant Charm are great against Wurmcoil and Stony Silence out of the board helps alot) but is there anything good in Temur colors? Something that's not Sowing Salt? I mean Salt is great, but really narrow. It seems bad to dedicate 2-3 SB spots to a card that's only really good against one deck.
So I played some matches today, won against Twin (2:1 awesome counterwars!), Infect and Merfolk (Command lock is awesome, he had 5 Lords on the board but couldn't do anything) but got crushed against Tron (0:2).
I even managed to deal with their early Wurmcoils and Karn but once they land Eye of Ugin they can just search up Emrakul...
I can see the Bant version being clearly better than RUG here (Path+ Bant Charm are great against Wurmcoil and Stony Silence out of the board helps alot) but is there anything good in Temur colors? Something that's not Sowing Salt? I mean Salt is great, but really narrow. It seems bad to dedicate 2-3 SB spots to a card that's only really good against one deck.
If u want to stay RUG you just have to accept that RG tron is a bad matchup. It hss a similar lategame plan but theirs is just better, eye plus emrakul. Switching to Bant may make the RG tron matchup better but ur aggro match ups like infect is much worse. Rg tron is not popular enough to worry about switching colours
So I played some matches today, won against Twin (2:1 awesome counterwars!), Infect and Merfolk (Command lock is awesome, he had 5 Lords on the board but couldn't do anything) but got crushed against Tron (0:2).
I even managed to deal with their early Wurmcoils and Karn but once they land Eye of Ugin they can just search up Emrakul...
I can see the Bant version being clearly better than RUG here (Path+ Bant Charm are great against Wurmcoil and Stony Silence out of the board helps alot) but is there anything good in Temur colors? Something that's not Sowing Salt? I mean Salt is great, but really narrow. It seems bad to dedicate 2-3 SB spots to a card that's only really good against one deck.
If u want to stay RUG you just have to accept that RG tron is a bad matchup. It hss a similar lategame plan but theirs is just better, eye plus emrakul. Switching to Bant may make the RG tron matchup better but ur aggro match ups like infect is much worse. Rg tron is not popular enough to worry about switching colours
Yeah I like my Bolts:D
And I think you're right, Tron isn't really that popular right now so I rather focus on Infect, Affinity and all that Aggro that runs around currently.
I decided to play 2x Shadow of Doubt which are also nice in the Bloom Titan and the Scapeshift MU. Although I could also consider Molten Rain or Fulminator Mage as they actually cover the same MUs.
Any legit scenarios where one is better than the other?
Yeah I like my Bolts:D
And I think you're right, Tron isn't really that popular right now so I rather focus on Infect, Affinity and all that Aggro that runs around currently.
I decided to play 2x Shadow of Doubt which are also nice in the Bloom Titan and the Scapeshift MU. Although I could also consider Molten Rain or Fulminator Mage as they actually cover the same MUs.
Any legit scenarios where one is better than the other?
It would really depend. For this deck, Fulminator Mage > Molten Rain for sideboard cards, the mage is a creature so interacts with Ruse well and can be vialed in at the CMC 3 sweet spot this deck loves, returning and then vialing in with E.Witness is just broken Shadow of Doubt is definitely maindeckable; so many decks rely on fetchs or deck searching, that a surprise Shadow of Doubt can really hurt them. And even in match ups where it is not great, its still cantrips for 2 mana at end of their turn.
It would really depend. For this deck, Fulminator Mage > Molten Rain for sideboard cards, the mage is a creature so interacts with Ruse well and can be vialed in at the CMC 3 sweet spot this deck loves, returning and then vialing in with E.Witness is just broken Shadow of Doubt is definitely maindeckable; so many decks rely on fetchs or deck searching, that a surprise Shadow of Doubt can really hurt them. And even in match ups where it is not great, its still cantrips for 2 mana at end of their turn.[/quote]
I see that it's awesome to be able to Vial in the Mage, on the other Hand we can recast Molten Rain with Snapcaster, which should be important against Tron, so I'm not a hundred percent sure here actually.
I'd love to maindeck Shadow of Doubt but space is tight...
Here's my current list
Maybe the Unsummon and an Electrolyze? I would drop the one in the sideboard (I dont know if its strong enough as a sideboard card). I am sure there are better sideboard hate cards than Shadow of Doubt . The reason I like it mainboard over sideboard, is that it fairly effective against a wide variety of decks but its not an "I WIN" button against any deck and even in the match ups its poor in, its still a cantrip.
You could put the electrolyze in the sideboard if you want or you can use the spot to shore up a really bad match up.
Something lacking in your sideboard that I really found good was Spellskite . It works really well against a lot of the combo match ups (Titan you an re-direct Stronghold activations) and also combos well with Ruse.
Is their a RUG list without tarmogoyf? id love to see one cuz i really wanna build this deck.
Oh absolutely yes! (this is probably one of the only decks where Goyf actually is replacable:D)
I actually consider dropping him in my list again, because he has definetely some downsides in in our deck:
We are already really graveyard dependent so hard grave hate shuts us down completely if we don't have an answer when we play Goyf and usually we want our vial on 3 for the Witness which doesn't synergize.
So stuff that you can try out instead of Goyfs: Kitchen Finks (Awesome against Burn and other Aggro MUs, huge value if you manage to block with them once and then use 'em for Ruse) Vendillion Clique (evasive Beater that with a nice ETB, exactly what we want) Savage Knuckleblade (big beater that can outgrow almost anything in the Format right now and can save himself. Paying 3 mana to do that can be pretty annoying though) Scavenging Ooze (grows big, gains life, annoys opposing snapcaster but doesn't play well with ruse and isn't as good in this meta without many graveyard dependent decks)
Another card I haven't tried out yet is Illusory Angel. It's awesome if we can vial her in and even if not the playing another spell before her should be possible.
(When it comes to vialing in Skaab Ruinator is brutal, but without a vial he's more or less uncastable:D)
I might be way out there..... but I think Myth Revealed might actually be a great card in the Bant version of this deck.
it rewards us for playing spells like Familiar's Ruse over and over, it is a creature-on-demand for Ruse to bounce for W and its a late-game finisher. I might be crazy, but i think there might be some potential there......
I don't know. It isn't that great with our creature plan, especially in the Bant versions, which plays more creatures then the other versions. It has to get tested.
@Topic, I'm exited about Collected Company. Finding a Beater and a Witness is living the dream, but also finding 1 creature is ok since the spell itself is instant speed which allows us to keep counter mana up. Lets see what we can do with that nice card.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I don't know. It isn't that great with our creature plan, especially in the Bant versions, which plays more creatures then the other versions. It has to get tested.
@Topic, I'm exited about Collected Company. Finding a Beater and a Witness is living the dream, but also finding 1 creature is ok since the spell itself is instant speed which allows us to keep counter mana up. Lets see what we can do with that nice card.
Nice to see your enthusiasm about Collected Company!
I love the card, but I'm unsure if it really is what we need to be honest.
if we wanna make it work we'd definetely need to up our creature count by some margin which would probably lead to a less reactive controlish and slightly more aggressive build, which sounds interesting to me.
I found this statitics somebody posted in another thread:
Guys, get your collected company's now. The card is absurd. It's fine in ruse but where it really shines is in the Anafenza deck. Also, eternal witness may see a price jump to as basically every deck with company is gonna play witness. Company is a new pillar of the format, and the Witness-Company engine basically replaces pod lol. Anafenza combo is probably the best deck for the combo. But yes, Ruse is still sick with Company. Even if you just get like oracle+ ooze, you're still stoked haha.
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Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Was hoping for some feedback for my list. It plays like most other tempo decks. I really enjoy the blink interactions and the various hijinks I can pull off with the help of Restoration Angel/Cloudshift/Familiar's Ruse. IMHO, it makes for a more fun playing experience than many other U/x decks, because you get to see your creatures replay their value, sometimes in multiples. The deck coalesces around Geist of Saint Traft as a win-con, while is virtually unstoppable with a few Noble Hierarchs in play. Restoration Angel, Stirring Wildwood, and Kitchen Finks are also decent beaters that can close out a game with support from counterspells and Path to Exile.
This deck is still in the planning stages, but the local meta is very combo and aggro focused, with a few U/x tempo decks here and there. Hopefully the sideboard reflects that, but I'd really appreciate feedback.
Maybe there's just too much going on here. But I will say that playing this type of deck with out Tarmogoyf is probably a mistake.
Goyf works well in your setup because it can be a 3/4 when it lands.
There's also some good synergy there with Familiar's Ruse and Bitterblossom. I think that enchantment compensates for the potential awkwardness of playing Ruse in non-black variations of the deck. You're almost always guaranteed to have a creature in play with which to bounce.
I feel like the Witness can be a more synergistic card, like Scion of Oona, which can pump and protect your flyers.
With only 14 creature spells, the Aether Vial slots might be better spent on more disruption - more counterspells, removal, or discard. Remand might be a good complement to Visions. Vial lets you hold up additional mana, but without it you can increase your number of threats or utility and perhaps increase your odds going into a longer game.
Hi everybody
Although this thread is kinda dead, I thought I'd tell you that I played with my RUG Eternal Ruse deck in the MTGS Superbowl and went 2-2 (and even ot 3rd place with it!)
I lost 1-2 against Scapeshift, which is usually a good MU, I just got super unlucky sitting on two lands for 5 rounds G1 and mulliganed to 4 G3...
Then I won 2-1 against 7-Land-Belcher, which is a super good MU (they're really weak against counters). I got caught off guard the amount of hate he could board and drew against me (Torpor Orb, Defense Grid and Wurmcoil Engine if I remember correctly), But G3 I played more causious and it was pretty easy once I landed a Goyf to get some pressure.
Round 3 was against Jund and I lost 1-2 again. All 3 games were super close and really fun to play. So I'm not even mad here, sometimes you're just not drawing the right cards at the right time but your opponent does.
Last round I won 2-0 against BW Tokens. I managed to keep them off Anthems and Electrolyze was MVP!
So I'm quite happy with the result and can't really understand why nobody else is picking this deck up for a try. Maybe it's just too pricy for a deck that's not even in developing competitive? (Where it could totally be powerwise imo)
Hi everybody
Although this thread is kinda dead, I thought I'd tell you that I played with my RUG Eternal Ruse deck in the MTGS Superbowl and went 2-2 (and even ot 3rd place with it!)
I lost 1-2 against Scapeshift, which is usually a good MU, I just got super unlucky sitting on two lands for 5 rounds G1 and mulliganed to 4 G3...
Then I won 2-1 against 7-Land-Belcher, which is a super good MU (they're really weak against counters). I got caught off guard the amount of hate he could board and drew against me (Torpor Orb, Defense Grid and Wurmcoil Engine if I remember correctly), But G3 I played more causious and it was pretty easy once I landed a Goyf to get some pressure.
Round 3 was against Jund and I lost 1-2 again. All 3 games were super close and really fun to play. So I'm not even mad here, sometimes you're just not drawing the right cards at the right time but your opponent does.
Last round I won 2-0 against BW Tokens. I managed to keep them off Anthems and Electrolyze was MVP!
So I'm quite happy with the result and can't really understand why nobody else is picking this deck up for a try. Maybe it's just too pricy for a deck that's not even in developing competitive? (Where it could totally be powerwise imo)
Decklist?
I feel the same, I feel like the deck is one card away from being competitively viable. Just not sure what that card is.
Pretty Standard RUG list with Goyfs, my beloved Sages and 1x Shadow of Doubt and 1x Simic Charm main. There isn't much graveyard hate being played these days so I play Goyfs. Sages add consistency as well a nice 'rusable' onedrop, which is something that makes Ruse much better in my opinion as Ruse can get online turn 2. I know he's not super powerful, and no CA neither but I haven't found anything better than him for that spot. SoD and Simic Charm are usable in almost every MU so I mainboarded them instead of something more specific because I had no clue of the meta I was about to play in. The SB reflects this too(lots of 1-ofs).
All in all I like the list but I think there's still some room for improvement.
Has anyone considered playing Desolate Lighthouse? I know our manabase is already pretty tight but oh how often I would have loved to loot my topdecked Vial or Land away for some action...
I'm looking for some more removal besides Path and Bant Charm. With these two we got really good outs for bigger creatures (Goyf, Rhino etc.) but is there maybe anything that trades efficiently with small creatures? Hopefully a 1cmc, maybe 2cmc card?
Sunlance!!!!
but seriously, Oust and Condemn are about the only other options you got.... and they arent good.
I tried a UGw list today and I continue to have problems with Burn and Lingering Souls. Does anyone have any tips here?
I am currently experimenting with cutting the Æther Vial for Noble Hierarch. The list and an short report will be editied into this post shortly.
First the list:
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Restoration Angel
Artifacts:3
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Batterskull
Sorceries:4
4 Serum Visions
Instants:13
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Valorous Stance
2 Bant Charm
1 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Cryptic Command
3 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
4 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
2 Condemn
1 Dispel
2 Nature's Claim
1 Celestial Purge
1 Feed the Clan
1 Flashfreeze
1 Negate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Sower of Temptation
Final record: 3-2
Round 1: Burn 1-2
Game 1 I never got into the game, game 2 I totally stomped him after boarding 11 cards and both of us mull to 5.
In game 3 he opened with 3 Goblin Guide into Monestary Swiftspear and Eidolon of the Great Revel and has some burn to finish me.
Overall the games were not that intresting but at fridays FNM I also played against burn for 7 games and only managed to win 2 of them. I never really get to stabilize even if I gain 5 or 6 life off of Timely Reinforcements or Feed the Clan.
2 Condemn
1 Dispel
1 Nature's Claim
1 Celestial Purge
1 Feed the Clan
1 Flashfreeze
1 Negate
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Eternal Witness
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Valorous Stance
2 Bant Charm
1 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Cryptic Command
Round 2: Junk 2-1 (a friend from our car)
Game 1 on the draw he mulls to 5 and me to 3 and never find my 2nd manasource before getting beat down in the air by Spirits.
Game 2 I can grind him out after he resolves a turn 4 Thrun, the Last Troll with a 3/4 Tarmogoyf that hits as a 4/5 thanks to Noble Hierarch and a Sower of Temptation that I can blink once with Restoration Angel to steal his chumpblockers for my Goyf and chump his Troll.
Game 3 I resolve a turn 1 Noble Hierarch into turn 2 Tarmogoyf and Serum Visions into some removal and turn 4 Batterskull that gets to play with my Goyf and later Restoration Angel.
This is the MU I build the deck for.
1 Celestial Purge
1 Flashfreeze
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spell Snare
Round 3: Junk 1-2 (another friend from our car)
Game 1 I keep a questionable hand and get wrecked by Thoughtseize -> Tarmogoyf -> Loxodon Smiter -> Siege Rhino -> Restoration Angel in response to my Path to Exile on the Rhino after talking him into running the Angel in the first place during our ride to the site.
Game 2 I get to implement my plan of outvalueing the Junk deck and finishing him with the Cryptic Command lock after a 16 turn slugfest.
We notice that we don't have that much time left in the round and both mull to 6 to find an agressive hand. He starts with one Goyf which I can remove and then burries me in Spirits from 3 Lingering Souls while I struggle to race him on the ground with Goyf and Mirran Crusader. In the end I am 2 life short which I lost to a mistake on turn 2 when I played a Flooded Strand instead of the Plains I had in hand.
Same SB plan as Round 2.
Round 4: UW Tron 2-1
This was a MU I was very unsure of. Game 1 we grind it out and I get to steal his Batterskull token with Vedalken Shackes and later a Wurmcoilengine after bouncing his Detention Sphere with Cryptic Command while racing with Tarmogoyf and Scavenging Ooze.
Game 2 I overextend a bit and get destroyed by turn 3 Supreme Verdict and turn 4 Tron into counter and later a Sphinx' Revelation into Sundering Titan while not really finding anything.
Game 3 he keeps a questionable hand while I go to 6 and open on Noble Hierarch -> Tarmogoyf + Serum Visions -> Crpytic Command -> while he assembles Tron turn 4 but has only one big spell (Karn Liberated).
2 Nature's Claim
1 Negate
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Eternal Witness
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Valorous Stance
Round 5: Tribal Zoo 2-1
Game 1 I start with a good mix of of removal, creatures and a Spell Snare and can manage his board until I stabilize a 5 and get to land a Batterskull to close out the game.
Game 2 he lands a turn 2 Geist of Saint Traft and turn 3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant with the help on Noble Hierarch and the turn after used Ghor-Clan Rampager and Mutagenic Growth and some Burn to close out the game after I resolved Timely Reinforcements and a Restoration Angel.
Game 3 we traded recources until at turn 10 or 11 I get to resolve a Batterskull and equip it to a Snapcaster Mage to put the game out of his reach.
2 Condemn
1 Dispel
1 Feed the Clan
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Restoration Angel
1 Valorous Stance
2 Bant Charm
1 Cryptic Command
First thoughts about the deck and tournament:
Pros:
- the deck beat Junk as it was intended to to
- all creature matchups look good
- Noble Hierarch have overperformed (acceleration and Exalted)
- I did not really miss the Æther Vials
- Mirran Crusader was a house
- 21 lands, 4 Noble and 4 Serum Visions lets you curve out well
Cons:
- I need to get more reps in with the deck to reduce the amount of mistakes and mental taxation (I was quite exausted mentally after 5 rounds)
- Lingering Souls and swarms of small creatures are a problem
- fliers are some sort of a problem
- I think I have the wrong angle on the Burn-MU
- some MUs seem overboarded
- the Bant Charms have underperformed and will get cut in the future
In the Future I would like to keep testing the deck without Æther Vial and move more to a Midrange-Control-Deck maybe testing out Worship for the Burn- and Aggo-MUs and Serra Avenger for defence in the air and a good flying clock. I will keep working on the deck and feel like I am on to something that I will like in the end.
I am looking forward to your comments and questions.
Venser and Snake are nice, viable cards for the deck. The thing is our lategame is already pretty good. It's where we want to get. The problem of this deck is getting there and neither Venser nor Snake help with that.
If you're meta isn't that fast you can surely include a 1 of to make your endgame even better but our flexspots are tight and I usually rather play another cheap answer to survive long enough to set up our lock or just grind out our opponent with the huge CA we generate.
To make it short: Venser and Snake tend to be best when we're already winning anyway
Interesting take on Eternal Ruse, although I don't even know if you can call a deck without Vial and Ruse still Eternal Ruse:D
Looks way more like a 'normal' Bant Midrange deck with the option for a late game lock.
Here are some questions for you:
Are Shackles really playable with only 9 Islands? For me it seems like you overcommit on shocklands to make shackles playable but playing so many shocks is part of your problem in the burn MU (I'd say drop the shackles and replace 2-3 shocks with Hinterland Harbor and the likes.)
Why do you play Thirst for Knowledge? With only 3 MB artifacts the card doesn't seem to fit well.
Against Lingering Souls (and all other kind of tokens) Engineered Explosives do a nice work. The card is also awesome in the Bogles MU and should at least find a spot in your SB.
why would you play Serra Avenger without Vial? The card wont be online before turn 4 and dies to Bolt. Why not play more Restoration Angels instead? Can be played even a turn earlier than the Avenger with Hierarch and is overall way more versatile.
I even managed to deal with their early Wurmcoils and Karn but once they land Eye of Ugin they can just search up Emrakul...
I can see the Bant version being clearly better than RUG here (Path+ Bant Charm are great against Wurmcoil and Stony Silence out of the board helps alot) but is there anything good in Temur colors? Something that's not Sowing Salt? I mean Salt is great, but really narrow. It seems bad to dedicate 2-3 SB spots to a card that's only really good against one deck.
If u want to stay RUG you just have to accept that RG tron is a bad matchup. It hss a similar lategame plan but theirs is just better, eye plus emrakul. Switching to Bant may make the RG tron matchup better but ur aggro match ups like infect is much worse. Rg tron is not popular enough to worry about switching colours
Yeah I like my Bolts:D
And I think you're right, Tron isn't really that popular right now so I rather focus on Infect, Affinity and all that Aggro that runs around currently.
I decided to play 2x Shadow of Doubt which are also nice in the Bloom Titan and the Scapeshift MU. Although I could also consider Molten Rain or Fulminator Mage as they actually cover the same MUs.
Any legit scenarios where one is better than the other?
It would really depend. For this deck, Fulminator Mage > Molten Rain for sideboard cards, the mage is a creature so interacts with Ruse well and can be vialed in at the CMC 3 sweet spot this deck loves, returning and then vialing in with E.Witness is just broken
It would really depend. For this deck, Fulminator Mage > Molten Rain for sideboard cards, the mage is a creature so interacts with Ruse well and can be vialed in at the CMC 3 sweet spot this deck loves, returning and then vialing in with E.Witness is just broken
I see that it's awesome to be able to Vial in the Mage, on the other Hand we can recast Molten Rain with Snapcaster, which should be important against Tron, so I'm not a hundred percent sure here actually.
I'd love to maindeck Shadow of Doubt but space is tight...
Here's my current list
4x Aether Vial
1x Engineered Explosives
Creatures:
3x Eternal Witness
2x Snapcaster Mage
3x Sage of Epityr
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Vendillion Clique
Spells:
3x Cryptic Command
3x Familiar's Ruse
2x Electrolyze
2x Izzet Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Remand
1x Unsummon
2x Serum Visions
2x Breeding Pool
2x Flooded Grove
1x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
4x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Engineerd Explosives
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Destructive Revelry
1x Dispel
1x Shadow of Doubt
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Fulminator Mage
So what to take out? A remand? Electrolyze?
In your list, im not really sure.
Maybe the Unsummon and an Electrolyze? I would drop the one in the sideboard (I dont know if its strong enough as a sideboard card). I am sure there are better sideboard hate cards than Shadow of Doubt . The reason I like it mainboard over sideboard, is that it fairly effective against a wide variety of decks but its not an "I WIN" button against any deck and even in the match ups its poor in, its still a cantrip.
You could put the electrolyze in the sideboard if you want or you can use the spot to shore up a really bad match up.
Something lacking in your sideboard that I really found good was Spellskite . It works really well against a lot of the combo match ups (Titan you an re-direct Stronghold activations) and also combos well with Ruse.
Oh absolutely yes! (this is probably one of the only decks where Goyf actually is replacable:D)
I actually consider dropping him in my list again, because he has definetely some downsides in in our deck:
We are already really graveyard dependent so hard grave hate shuts us down completely if we don't have an answer when we play Goyf and usually we want our vial on 3 for the Witness which doesn't synergize.
So stuff that you can try out instead of Goyfs:
Kitchen Finks (Awesome against Burn and other Aggro MUs, huge value if you manage to block with them once and then use 'em for Ruse)
Vendillion Clique (evasive Beater that with a nice ETB, exactly what we want)
Savage Knuckleblade (big beater that can outgrow almost anything in the Format right now and can save himself. Paying 3 mana to do that can be pretty annoying though)
Scavenging Ooze (grows big, gains life, annoys opposing snapcaster but doesn't play well with ruse and isn't as good in this meta without many graveyard dependent decks)
Another card I haven't tried out yet is Illusory Angel. It's awesome if we can vial her in and even if not the playing another spell before her should be possible.
(When it comes to vialing in Skaab Ruinator is brutal, but without a vial he's more or less uncastable:D)
I hope that helps!
it rewards us for playing spells like Familiar's Ruse over and over, it is a creature-on-demand for Ruse to bounce for W and its a late-game finisher. I might be crazy, but i think there might be some potential there......
@Topic, I'm exited about Collected Company. Finding a Beater and a Witness is living the dream, but also finding 1 creature is ok since the spell itself is instant speed which allows us to keep counter mana up. Lets see what we can do with that nice card.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
As I posted in the initial thread about Collected Company
Targets
Knight of the Reliquary
Tarmogoyf
Coiling Oracle
Loxodon Smiter
Scavenging Ooze
Savage Knuckleblade
Snapcaster Mage
Kitchen Finks
Eternal Witness
Vendilion Clique
Spellstutter Sprite
Sage of Epityr
Noble Hierarch
Birds of Paradise
Skaab Ruinator
With this engine plus Aether Vial, I think that this deck becomes very interesting.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I love the card, but I'm unsure if it really is what we need to be honest.
if we wanna make it work we'd definetely need to up our creature count by some margin which would probably lead to a less reactive controlish and slightly more aggressive build, which sounds interesting to me.
I found this statitics somebody posted in another thread:
Hitting 1+ creature
15 - 84.3%
16 - 86.5%
17 - 88.4%
18 - 90.0%
19 - 91.5%
20 - 92.8%
Hitting 2+ creatures
15 - 48.2%
16 - 52.3%
17 - 56.3%
18 - 60.1%
19 - 63.7%
20 - 67.2%
Should be useful.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Coiling Oracle
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Mystic Snake
3x Restoration Angel
Instants--14
4x Cloudshift
4x Path to Exile
4x Remand
2x Familiar's Ruse
3x Island
2x Forest
1x Plains
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Temple Garden
2x Breeding Pool
3x Flooded Strand
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Windswept Heath
2x Gavony Township
2x Stirring Wildwood
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Auriok Champion
1x Loxodon Smiter
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Nevermore
1x Rest in Peace
1x Stony Silence
1x Aetherize
2x Celestial Purge
2x Krosan Grip
This deck is still in the planning stages, but the local meta is very combo and aggro focused, with a few U/x tempo decks here and there. Hopefully the sideboard reflects that, but I'd really appreciate feedback.
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells (22):
4 Aether Vial
4 Bitterblossom
4 Serum Visions
3 Abrupt decay
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Familiar's Ruse
2 Spell Snare
1 Cryptic Command
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted delta
2 Flooded Grove
2 Breeding Pool
2 Watery Grave
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp
Maybe there's just too much going on here. But I will say that playing this type of deck with out Tarmogoyf is probably a mistake.
Draft My Cube!
Goyf works well in your setup because it can be a 3/4 when it lands.
There's also some good synergy there with Familiar's Ruse and Bitterblossom. I think that enchantment compensates for the potential awkwardness of playing Ruse in non-black variations of the deck. You're almost always guaranteed to have a creature in play with which to bounce.
I feel like the Witness can be a more synergistic card, like Scion of Oona, which can pump and protect your flyers.
With only 14 creature spells, the Aether Vial slots might be better spent on more disruption - more counterspells, removal, or discard. Remand might be a good complement to Visions. Vial lets you hold up additional mana, but without it you can increase your number of threats or utility and perhaps increase your odds going into a longer game.
Although this thread is kinda dead, I thought I'd tell you that I played with my RUG Eternal Ruse deck in the MTGS Superbowl and went 2-2 (and even ot 3rd place with it!)
I lost 1-2 against Scapeshift, which is usually a good MU, I just got super unlucky sitting on two lands for 5 rounds G1 and mulliganed to 4 G3...
Then I won 2-1 against 7-Land-Belcher, which is a super good MU (they're really weak against counters). I got caught off guard the amount of hate he could board and drew against me (Torpor Orb, Defense Grid and Wurmcoil Engine if I remember correctly), But G3 I played more causious and it was pretty easy once I landed a Goyf to get some pressure.
Round 3 was against Jund and I lost 1-2 again. All 3 games were super close and really fun to play. So I'm not even mad here, sometimes you're just not drawing the right cards at the right time but your opponent does.
Last round I won 2-0 against BW Tokens. I managed to keep them off Anthems and Electrolyze was MVP!
So I'm quite happy with the result and can't really understand why nobody else is picking this deck up for a try. Maybe it's just too pricy for a deck that's not even in developing competitive? (Where it could totally be powerwise imo)
Decklist?
I feel the same, I feel like the deck is one card away from being competitively viable. Just not sure what that card is.
2x Breeding Pool
2x Flooded Groe
1x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
4x Island
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
1x Stomping Ground
1x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
Creatures:
3x Eternal Witness
3x Sage of Epityr
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Vendillion Cliqe
4x Aether Vial
3x Cryptic Command
1x Electrolyze
2x Serum Visions
3x Familiar's Ruse
2x Izzet Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Remand
1x Shadow of Doubt
1x Simic Charm
1x Unsummon
1x Engineerd Explosives
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Fulminator Mage
2x Obstinate Baloth
1x Scavening Ooze
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Destructive Revelry
1x Dispel
1x Electrolyze
1x Rending Volley
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Roast
Pretty Standard RUG list with Goyfs, my beloved Sages and 1x Shadow of Doubt and 1x Simic Charm main. There isn't much graveyard hate being played these days so I play Goyfs. Sages add consistency as well a nice 'rusable' onedrop, which is something that makes Ruse much better in my opinion as Ruse can get online turn 2. I know he's not super powerful, and no CA neither but I haven't found anything better than him for that spot. SoD and Simic Charm are usable in almost every MU so I mainboarded them instead of something more specific because I had no clue of the meta I was about to play in. The SB reflects this too(lots of 1-ofs).
All in all I like the list but I think there's still some room for improvement.
Has anyone considered playing Desolate Lighthouse? I know our manabase is already pretty tight but oh how often I would have loved to loot my topdecked Vial or Land away for some action...