I'm really liking the demigods, but how do we beat UWR control? I'm getting rolled over by cryptic commands and enough spot removal to stop my threats.
Interesting options, I might cut my red sun's zenith for a banefire. I'm running Molten Rain and Blood Moon main board, not sure if I've got room for more LD. I have been trying Defense Grid in the sideboard, which is fantastic if you can stick it.
I'm playing a list similar to tinfoil hat's, but a bit more budgety (no fetches/lavamancer). I haven't needed the ramp. If I was to include some though, coldsteel heart seems like the way to go. Solemn is good, but he doesn't help you hit your 5-drops faster.
I'm playing a list similar to tinfoil hat's, but a bit more budgety (no fetches/lavamancer). I haven't needed the ramp. If I was to include some though, coldsteel heart seems like the way to go. Solemn is good, but he doesn't help you hit your 5-drops faster.
Seems fine I recall seething song in my old list and inferno titan (or deus of calamity)
Interested in this archetype loved it when I did play it Reckoner combo seems nice
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
Tarox is a budget concession at the moment, stormbreath dragons would be in that slot otherwise. I'm going to test deus of calamity there instead and see how I like it.
This deck looks like a ton of fun. Beating faces with big dragons? Sign me up.
It seems like a lot of you are opting to drop the whole scrying sheets thing. It seems really powerful, especially in a deck with otherwise no access to card advantage; has testing proven it that weak? Its obvious weakness is it effectively eats 3 mana, but "3 mana - draw a card" on a land that can otherwise tap for colorless? I dunno. I think if I were to try and build this deck right now it would look something like:
It seems like skred + reckoner is insane, Coldsteel means you get your dragons out a turn faster, Reckoner+Anger kills anything, Koth+Banefire = lol. There's lots of synergies here, and this deck will destroy most late-games, I think. The issue is if we're fast enough to not lose to burn/goblins/aggressive tempo decks. I haven't had time to test yet, but my feeling is that we may need to MD more sweepers if we're too slow.
Demigod and Stormbreath are so much better than ThunderMang its not even funny. Stormbreath is soooo sweet.
Enough of the meta is Red that Peak Eruption is rarely a dead card. It used to be Molten Rain but since Theros was spoiled, well I just had to try it out, and 9 times out of 10 it performs the same function. Unfortunately it doesn't hit manlands or Tron, so I may just have to switch it back
Lavamancer is dope, but I don't like having to rely on fetches. Moon turns them off, too (ONLY 2 MOON IN YOUR 75 AND NONE MAIN?!?!). I don't know that you'd want Lavamancer over board wipe effects, since obviously it's awkward to run both. The wipe effects help us take control after turn 3 or 4 once our opponents develop their board a little before dropping a finisher.
That, and four maindeck Peak Eruption?! Super interesting choice. You must have a pretty developed mana. I think I'd definitely want Moons in those slots, though.
Demigod of Revenge is awesome, and certainly merits consideration. I'll have to test him out, but I can't see how he could ever be as good as Thundermaw. I do like the resilience to counters, though (in multiples).
I'm really liking the demigods, but how do we beat UWR control? I'm getting rolled over by cryptic commands and enough spot removal to stop my threats.
This deck looks like a ton of fun. Beating faces with big dragons? Sign me up.
It seems like a lot of you are opting to drop the whole scrying sheets thing. It seems really powerful, especially in a deck with otherwise no access to card advantage; has testing proven it that weak? Its obvious weakness is it effectively eats 3 mana, but "3 mana - draw a card" on a land that can otherwise tap for colorless? I dunno. I think if I were to try and build this deck right now it would look something like:
It seems like skred + reckoner is insane, Coldsteel means you get your dragons out a turn faster, Reckoner+Anger kills anything, Koth+Banefire = lol. There's lots of synergies here, and this deck will destroy most late-games, I think. The issue is if we're fast enough to not lose to burn/goblins/aggressive tempo decks. I haven't had time to test yet, but my feeling is that we may need to MD more sweepers if we're too slow.
Whatdya all think?
You're right about Scrying Sheets, it's huge here. Banefire looks a little too cute. I like the rest of the list though, Anger of the Gods is just nuts. No Mouth of Ronom?
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
You're right about Scrying Sheets, it's huge here. Banefire looks a little too cute. I like the rest of the list though, Anger of the Gods is just nuts. No Mouth of Ronom?
I don't want too many colorless sources with Reckoner. Its important to drop him early to slow down faster aggro decks and being late because you're dropping colorless lands is not worth the small chance that Mouth can do something game-changing. I think? That was my reasoning when I was putting the list together at least.
I've not been too sad with Lavamancer. He's rarely dead, whereas sweepers are dead vs a third of the metagame.
Peak Eruption used to be Molten Rain, and it may transform back. GB, Pod, Tron and Hatebears have no mountains, but the rest of the metagame does. It just depends on what I'm expecting. I think I'll switch them back, but I like them so much.
On beating UWR, You just need to know what your most dominant threats are. Moons, Demigod, and Stormbreath are your best cards, Koth is also very good. Demigod is easly the best though, because you can catch dumb players very easily (once), when they counter it. Just cast it and say "trigger". They go to counter it, then you're like, okay. Resolve trigger, demigod comes back. Path is a beating though, which is why stormbreath and koth are amazing.
The matchup is definitely in our favor though.
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Hey, I've been testing the deck a bunch over the past few days, and it's pretty awesome. I've played against Jund, 4 color Jund, Grixis control, Elves, Goblins, various delver decks, and some random brews and all those matchups seem fine. Some things I've noticed while testing:
Chandra, Pyromaster is insane in this deck. The ability to stick her and then never run out of gas is fantastic. She can also occasionally pick of Bobs, Snapcasters, and Cliques.
Boros Reckoner is actually pretty bad in the current meta. That said, I am still playing him as his synergy with Skred is pretty good.
I am still unsure which 5 drop hasty finisher is best (Thundermaw, Demigod, or Stormbreath). I have been messing around with splits of them, but i feel like 6 overall is a good number.
For reference, here is the current list I am running (no SB as of yet)
Hey, I've been testing the deck a bunch over the past few days, and it's pretty awesome. I've played against Jund, 4 color Jund, Grixis control, Elves, Goblins, various delver decks, and some random brews and all those matchups seem fine. Some things I've noticed while testing:
Chandra, Pyromaster is insane in this deck. The ability to stick her and then never run out of gas is fantastic. She can also occasionally pick of Bobs, Snapcasters, and Cliques.
Boros Reckoner is actually pretty bad in the current meta. That said, I am still playing him as his synergy with Skred is pretty good.
I am still unsure which 5 drop hasty finisher is best (Thundermaw, Demigod, or Stormbreath). I have been messing around with splits of them, but i feel like 6 overall is a good number.
For reference, here is the current list I am running (no SB as of yet)
This looks pretty fantastic. How are you finding it in testing? I really want to play this but I don't own hellkites or chandras and don't want to drop dollars on em to test if the deck isn't performing, and 'performs fine' doesn't sound incredibly promising =/
This looks pretty fantastic. How are you finding it in testing? I really want to play this but I don't own hellkites or chandras and don't want to drop dollars on em to test if the deck isn't performing, and 'performs fine' doesn't sound incredibly promising =/
I haven't been keeping a win/loss record (I'll probably start doing that soon), but the only matchup I have found to be unwinnable is storm, as their manabase doesn't get screwed up by blood moon, we can't really interact with most of what they are doing, and they are much faster than us.
Against midrange BGx decks, the sheer amount of removal we have can keep their bobs and lilianas off the field, and then we can pretty easily grind them out with planeswalkers and scrying sheets. Also blood moon destroys their manabase if they are 3+ colors.
Against UWx control, resolving any of the 6 planeswalkers or blood moon can usually beat them on its own, but the right combination of counters and removal can ruin our day.
As far as your worries about card $$, sadly I think the chandras are definitely needed, however the Thundermaws probably aren't. I usually don't notice any difference between what hasty 5 drop "dragon" i use, and I have been switching them around a lot. I am currently running the most Demigods because they are the cheapest ($), and I hardly notice a difference. You could definitely try Inferno Titan in the Thundermaw slots, but I have no experience with that so I won't say anything for or against it.
I'm not going to pretend like this is a tier 1 deck. It's not. If you are trying to win at a big event or something, I don't think this will get you there. However, I do strongly believe almost all matchups are winnable (the ones I've encountered), and on an FNM level I'm sure this deck would do fine. I've been testing this on cockatrice, and if I had to guess my win % against actual decks it would be a little over 50%.
defense grid is awesome against Ux. Stick it turn 2 and you probably win the game.
That definitely seems like a solid sideboard, thanks! I think Sowing Salt is definitely something to consider, but I have yet to play the tron matchup to see if we need the help. Torpor Orb is something I have seen in a few of the sideboards in this thread, and it seems pretty strong as well.
One thing I think would be awesome to see in the sideboard would be a card to replace Boros Reckoner in the matchups where it is bad because against something with a low creature count and/or a lot of removal it is incredibly underwhelming. Something like Chandra's Phoenix might work, but I'm not sure.
Another thing to think about is a sideboard plan against storm. I'm not sure if just bringing in Relics and hoping for the best is going to work.
Since my last post, I have been doing quite a bit of testing, and have been keeping a pretty detailed spreadsheet of my results. I have played a total of 20 matches on Cockatrice, with a total record of 18-2, only losing to Bogles and Merfolk. Keep in mind this is Cockatrice, and my record against "real" decks is 9-2. Just thought I would share with you guys the success I've been having with my list so far.
My current list is the same as the one I posted above, with:
One thing I found when developing a sideboard for this deck is that there are a lot of matches where you need to side out your Blood Moons, but none of your specific hate cards apply to the matchup, which is where the Chandra's Phoenix/Boros Reckoner in the sideboard are useful. Obviously bringing in more creatures won't be dead in any matchup, so it gives a strong alternative if the moons just aren't good. They also give an alternative to Reckoners in certain matchups (read: UWR control). The phoenix has been pretty good, but if there is another good red 3 drop that would fulfill that role better, I'm open to suggestions (Boggart Ram-Gang/Phyrexian Ironfoot?).
Since I got a playset, I've been trying a list with 4 Tarmogoyf - maaaaan is he gnarly. With all the one-cost removal we can easily rush out 3/4 'Goyfs on turn 2, a plan made even more lethal by the fact that we're following him with Planeswalkers and enormous dragons. (A side note - the Modern Masters art even fits our snow theme!!) Thoughts on this pile? It could stand to run a few more Sorceries, but which ones? Not entirely sold on Pillar of Flame here, though it has been nice a few times. I know the land count seems high, but you REALLY want your drops every turn. Magma Jet helps.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Since I got a playset, I've been trying a list with 4 Tarmogoyf - maaaaan is he gnarly. With all the one-cost removal we can easily rush out 3/4 'Goyfs on turn 2, a plan made even more lethal by the fact that we're following him with Planeswalkers and enormous dragons. (A side note - the Modern Masters art even fits our snow theme!!) Thoughts on this pile? It could stand to run a few more Sorceries, but which ones? Not entirely sold on Pillar of Flame here, though it has been nice a few times. I know the land count seems high, but you REALLY want your drops every turn. Magma Jet helps.
I think the 4 bolts and 4 skreds is definitely enough as far as 1cc removal goes. That's what I run and I've never felt like I needed more, especially with the Magma Jets.
Green seems like one of the better splashes, and Tarmogoyf definitely helps fill an early gap in the deck that is usually only occupied by removal. I have been really liking 6 dragons in my list, but I can see how with the addition of goyfs you have threats that aren't just the dragons. The access to Ancient Grudge out of the side seems nice too.
One concern I have is that with so many fetches, Stomping Grounds, and no Coldsteel Hearts, the Scrying Sheets seem REALLY bad. As far as I'm concerned, they are definitely a major reason to run this deck, but with less than a 1/4 chance of hitting a snow card, they seem pretty unreliable. How have they been performing for you?
Also 4 Blood Moon in the main is a lot, but if your meta is very Jund/UWR/Tron heavy its pretty reasonable.
For me, some number of Anger of the Gods in the main has been pretty sweet.
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try boiling them out of the game???
Interesting options, I might cut my red sun's zenith for a banefire. I'm running Molten Rain and Blood Moon main board, not sure if I've got room for more LD. I have been trying Defense Grid in the sideboard, which is fantastic if you can stick it.
I remember some versions splashing for into the north as well (which now also provides ground assault)
Stormbreath seems sweet a 4/4 flyer that sudden impacts control is nice
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Seems fine I recall seething song in my old list and inferno titan (or deus of calamity)
Interested in this archetype loved it when I did play it Reckoner combo seems nice
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
4x demigod of revenge
2x tarox bladewing
2x inferno titan
Tarox is a budget concession at the moment, stormbreath dragons would be in that slot otherwise. I'm going to test deus of calamity there instead and see how I like it.
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
It seems like a lot of you are opting to drop the whole scrying sheets thing. It seems really powerful, especially in a deck with otherwise no access to card advantage; has testing proven it that weak? Its obvious weakness is it effectively eats 3 mana, but "3 mana - draw a card" on a land that can otherwise tap for colorless? I dunno. I think if I were to try and build this deck right now it would look something like:
4 Scrying Sheets
19 Snow-Covered Mountain
Creatures (12):
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Demigod of Revenge
3 Boros Reckoner
Other Permanents (12):
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Blood Moon
4 Coldsteel Heart
4 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Banefire
3 Shattering Spree
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Defense Grid
2 Torpor Orb
3 Relic or Progenitus
2 Magus of the Moon
It seems like skred + reckoner is insane, Coldsteel means you get your dragons out a turn faster, Reckoner+Anger kills anything, Koth+Banefire = lol. There's lots of synergies here, and this deck will destroy most late-games, I think. The issue is if we're fast enough to not lose to burn/goblins/aggressive tempo decks. I haven't had time to test yet, but my feeling is that we may need to MD more sweepers if we're too slow.
Whatdya all think?
Lavamancer is dope, but I don't like having to rely on fetches. Moon turns them off, too (ONLY 2 MOON IN YOUR 75 AND NONE MAIN?!?!). I don't know that you'd want Lavamancer over board wipe effects, since obviously it's awkward to run both. The wipe effects help us take control after turn 3 or 4 once our opponents develop their board a little before dropping a finisher.
That, and four maindeck Peak Eruption?! Super interesting choice. You must have a pretty developed mana. I think I'd definitely want Moons in those slots, though.
Demigod of Revenge is awesome, and certainly merits consideration. I'll have to test him out, but I can't see how he could ever be as good as Thundermaw. I do like the resilience to counters, though (in multiples).
Lately I tried dropping two Snow-Covered Mountain for Cavern of Souls, but they haven't done anything yet. At least I haven't Scryed into them! Also, a few Defense Grid in the side and four MD Blood Moon is usually enough for UWR. I like a couple Combust too, especially to deal with Restoration Angel.
You're right about Scrying Sheets, it's huge here. Banefire looks a little too cute. I like the rest of the list though, Anger of the Gods is just nuts. No Mouth of Ronom?
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I don't want too many colorless sources with Reckoner. Its important to drop him early to slow down faster aggro decks and being late because you're dropping colorless lands is not worth the small chance that Mouth can do something game-changing. I think? That was my reasoning when I was putting the list together at least.
Peak Eruption used to be Molten Rain, and it may transform back. GB, Pod, Tron and Hatebears have no mountains, but the rest of the metagame does. It just depends on what I'm expecting. I think I'll switch them back, but I like them so much.
On beating UWR, You just need to know what your most dominant threats are. Moons, Demigod, and Stormbreath are your best cards, Koth is also very good. Demigod is easly the best though, because you can catch dumb players very easily (once), when they counter it. Just cast it and say "trigger". They go to counter it, then you're like, okay. Resolve trigger, demigod comes back. Path is a beating though, which is why stormbreath and koth are amazing.
The matchup is definitely in our favor though.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
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Chandra, Pyromaster is insane in this deck. The ability to stick her and then never run out of gas is fantastic. She can also occasionally pick of Bobs, Snapcasters, and Cliques.
Boros Reckoner is actually pretty bad in the current meta. That said, I am still playing him as his synergy with Skred is pretty good.
I would play at the MOST 3 Scrying Sheets if you are running Demigod of Revenge and Boros Reckoner. I am currently running only 2 sheets.
I am still unsure which 5 drop hasty finisher is best (Thundermaw, Demigod, or Stormbreath). I have been messing around with splits of them, but i feel like 6 overall is a good number.
For reference, here is the current list I am running (no SB as of yet)
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Demigod of Revenge
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Coldsteel Heart
4 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Magma Jet
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Scrying Sheets
22 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 blood moon
3 relic of progenitus
1 ratchet bomb
1 anger of the gods
3 shattering spree
+2ish more that I cant remember now
defense grid is awesome against Ux. Stick it turn 2 and you probably win the game.
This looks pretty fantastic. How are you finding it in testing? I really want to play this but I don't own hellkites or chandras and don't want to drop dollars on em to test if the deck isn't performing, and 'performs fine' doesn't sound incredibly promising =/
I haven't been keeping a win/loss record (I'll probably start doing that soon), but the only matchup I have found to be unwinnable is storm, as their manabase doesn't get screwed up by blood moon, we can't really interact with most of what they are doing, and they are much faster than us.
Against midrange BGx decks, the sheer amount of removal we have can keep their bobs and lilianas off the field, and then we can pretty easily grind them out with planeswalkers and scrying sheets. Also blood moon destroys their manabase if they are 3+ colors.
Against UWx control, resolving any of the 6 planeswalkers or blood moon can usually beat them on its own, but the right combination of counters and removal can ruin our day.
As far as your worries about card $$, sadly I think the chandras are definitely needed, however the Thundermaws probably aren't. I usually don't notice any difference between what hasty 5 drop "dragon" i use, and I have been switching them around a lot. I am currently running the most Demigods because they are the cheapest ($), and I hardly notice a difference. You could definitely try Inferno Titan in the Thundermaw slots, but I have no experience with that so I won't say anything for or against it.
I'm not going to pretend like this is a tier 1 deck. It's not. If you are trying to win at a big event or something, I don't think this will get you there. However, I do strongly believe almost all matchups are winnable (the ones I've encountered), and on an FNM level I'm sure this deck would do fine. I've been testing this on cockatrice, and if I had to guess my win % against actual decks it would be a little over 50%.
That definitely seems like a solid sideboard, thanks! I think Sowing Salt is definitely something to consider, but I have yet to play the tron matchup to see if we need the help. Torpor Orb is something I have seen in a few of the sideboards in this thread, and it seems pretty strong as well.
One thing I think would be awesome to see in the sideboard would be a card to replace Boros Reckoner in the matchups where it is bad because against something with a low creature count and/or a lot of removal it is incredibly underwhelming. Something like Chandra's Phoenix might work, but I'm not sure.
Another thing to think about is a sideboard plan against storm. I'm not sure if just bringing in Relics and hoping for the best is going to work.
My current list is the same as the one I posted above, with:
-1 Anger of the Gods
-1 Boros Reckoner
+1 Magma Jet
+1 Chandra, Pyromaster
The sideboard I am currently working with is:
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Torpor Orb
3 Chandra's Phoenix
1 Boros Reckoner
1 Blood Moon
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Shattering Spree
One thing I found when developing a sideboard for this deck is that there are a lot of matches where you need to side out your Blood Moons, but none of your specific hate cards apply to the matchup, which is where the Chandra's Phoenix/Boros Reckoner in the sideboard are useful. Obviously bringing in more creatures won't be dead in any matchup, so it gives a strong alternative if the moons just aren't good. They also give an alternative to Reckoners in certain matchups (read: UWR control). The phoenix has been pretty good, but if there is another good red 3 drop that would fulfill that role better, I'm open to suggestions (Boggart Ram-Gang/Phyrexian Ironfoot?).
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
Other permanents (10)
4 Blood Moon
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Instants/Sorceries (14)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skred
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Magma Jet
10 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Stomping Ground
2 Scrying Sheets
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I think the 4 bolts and 4 skreds is definitely enough as far as 1cc removal goes. That's what I run and I've never felt like I needed more, especially with the Magma Jets.
Green seems like one of the better splashes, and Tarmogoyf definitely helps fill an early gap in the deck that is usually only occupied by removal. I have been really liking 6 dragons in my list, but I can see how with the addition of goyfs you have threats that aren't just the dragons. The access to Ancient Grudge out of the side seems nice too.
One concern I have is that with so many fetches, Stomping Grounds, and no Coldsteel Hearts, the Scrying Sheets seem REALLY bad. As far as I'm concerned, they are definitely a major reason to run this deck, but with less than a 1/4 chance of hitting a snow card, they seem pretty unreliable. How have they been performing for you?
Also 4 Blood Moon in the main is a lot, but if your meta is very Jund/UWR/Tron heavy its pretty reasonable.
For me, some number of Anger of the Gods in the main has been pretty sweet.