Not sure if anyone else mentioned this yet, but Mirrorweaving your Sinew Sliver (not Predatory Sliver) after blockers have been declared (none hopefully, courtesy of evasion) is pretty brutal if your opponent has a bunch of creatures themselves. You turn all their guys into lords for your guys.
Firstly, thanks JPo, for getting my list in the OP. But do update it with my current one in this post. It's my best one yet, I think. Now on to some discussion... Some things to address.
Great find on Domri Rade! It's the kind of card we need generate some CA. There's really no way for us to draw cards and Domri seems great.
Tribal Flames is great, but the utilty from Boros Charm and life gain from Lightning Helix makes them the more preferred choice. Especially with the amounts of shocks and fetches, the life gain will really help. Legion's Initative has caught my attention too. But again, I'd rather have Boros Charm for the same reasons above. Food for thought though.
I feel like all that does is create a deck that is essentially a weaker version of Merfolk (since it has a more fragile and demanding manabase).
I like the versatility in the various sliver that you can get personally.
Yeah, that's all I've been thinking about when trying to get a list I'm happy with. I've been comparing it with Merfolk since they both play similarly. And yes, the versatility is what makes it more appealing than Merfolk's straight-forward plan. I'm trying to incorporate both into one deck as of now.
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this yet, but Mirrorweaving your Sinew Sliver (not Predatory Sliver) after blockers have been declared (none hopefully, courtesy of evasion) is pretty brutal if your opponent has a bunch of creatures themselves. You turn all their guys into lords for your guys.
Mirroweave is interesting. If you put it that way, you could definitely end the game right there. That's a sweet interaction. But is it worth including? I mean, if you get to the point where you have a couple lords in play and are beating face, you are most probably ahead on board control. But I guess it's great for just going "oops, I win". Let us know how that works out. Are you always happy drawing it in hand, or have you had wished it was something else?
Is Frenetic Sliver too cute? He basically makes all removal 50% less effective. Including Wrath of God.
Yeah man, this is Modern's two-bit Crystalline Sliver. I've thought about including it in my build but he 3 cmc makes it a turn-off for the more aggressive builds though (mine). Might be good to split 2-2, 3-1, or 1-3 with Sedge Sliver. But yeah, it's hella good, not cute. Just that, I'd rather have Sedge who works as a lord as well and the creature base is tight as hell as it is. Which brings me to a build I've just recently thought of and currently working on...
Glittering Wish is exactly what I think we're looking for. Gives us the choice of what to get, when we need it. The downside, is that this slows down our clock by a turn, but at the same time, it helps us deal with threats right away. Furthermore, with a vial in play, it'll be all right to leave mana open for casting it EOT.
The main deck shell is similar to my previous build but I opted to drop the Sidewinder Sliver for Two-Headed Sliver. I'm following a similar shell of Merfolk where they have 8 evasion enablers, so I upped this to 7. I have a soft spot for Spellskite as well, and it has never failed me once. So 2 of them, coupled with the Sedges, should give us just enough resiliency. Phantasmal Image has been a house as well, as some others has echoed. Very useful. Initially wanted to play 3 of them, but some sacrifices had to be made. Overall, I'm very satisfied with the main deck currently. I feel there's nothing I wanna change, apart from tweaking the numbers of each sliver.
The mana base, which I'm sure can still be worked on till it's perfect, is my only gripe for now. But like any zoo deck, the mana is janky and getting mana screwed sucks. That's my main reason of including City of Brass over Cavern of Souls. No choice but to do so to be able to reliably cast our non-creature spells.
As for the wishboard, that's all I can come up with at the moment. I skipped Opaline Sliver as I prefer Domri Rade. Cautery Sliver was skipped as well as it doesn't do much. Apart from these two, I don't think there are any other Slivers that are worth the utility. Unless I missed something?
I had thought that this played similarly to Merfolk, but I find it actually beats them most of the time. Harmonic Sliver does a lot of work against that deck.
Someone else had mentioned Glittering Wish to me, and I was thinking of moving some Lightning Helix to the board to make room for them (since it can fetch them anyway). Being able to grab some silver bullets like Gaddock Teeg, Fulminator Mage, Rakdos Charm, the aformentioned Harmonic Sliver, or even something like Sliver Legion could be good. If nothing else, you can always grab a Helix.
I also haven't been having an issue with mana. Between Cavern of Souls, City of Brass, Tendo Ice Bridge and Reflecting Pool, I have pretty much had all my bases covered. The rest are fetches and shocks. Sometimes I don't have a Swamp for Sedge Sliver, but that's the worst problem I run into, and I'm only running 23 lands with 5 colors. My only regret on the mana base is not running Mutavault, but it's hard to justify a colorless land in a 5 color deck (even if it's Mutavault in Slivers).
Glittering Wish[/CARD] is exactly what I think we're looking for. Gives us the choice of what to get, when we need it. The downside, is that this slows down our clock by a turn, but at the same time, it helps us deal with threats right away. Furthermore, with a vial in play, it'll be all right to leave mana open for casting it EOT.
Casting what EoT? Glittering Wish? That's a Sorcery.
No issues with Slivers or having Boros Charm active early enough (turn ~3). However, I am skipping black atm (which thus includes Sedge Sliver). Have pwned both Zoo and Merfolk a very high % of the time in my brief testing.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Im not saying that a sliver deck has issues with mana bases, im saying that trying to run an all-lord pumping list makes for essentially a rainbow Merfolk deck, and that would be worse than Merfolk in case you miss on an essential land. Also the difficulty some are having in running the delightfully fun Mutavault. I haven't had many issues with land drops and getting what I need.
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Im not saying that a sliver deck has issues with mana bases, im saying that trying to run an all-lord pumping list makes for essentially a rainbow Merfolk deck, and that would be worse than Merfolk in case you miss on an essential land. Also the difficulty some are having in running the delightfully fun Mutavault. I haven't had many issues with land drops and getting what I need.
I have a rainbow list, I don't have mana issues. The 5 colored aggro list's threaten your opponent dead turn 4 EVERY game, it's a clock against combo telling your combo opponent you better go off because turn 4 your dead.
Against other aggro decks like Merfolk or R/G aggro your should just win.
I have a rainbow list, I don't have mana issues. The 5 colored aggro list's threaten your opponent dead turn 4 EVERY game, it's a clock against combo telling your combo opponent you better go off because turn 4 your dead.
Against other aggro decks like Merfolk or R/G aggro your should just win.
I don't understand this statement at all. I would love to see a list that consistently does T4 EVERY game. I don't buy it. Especially since Merfolk threatens T4-T6 and runs more lords and is able to dump them far easier (If you run the deck, then you know the trick with Merrow Reejerey that empties your entire hand onto the battlefield).
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I don't understand this statement at all. I would love to see a list that consistently does T4 EVERY game. I don't buy it. Especially since Merfolk threatens T4-T6 and runs more lords and is able to dump them far easier (If you run the deck, then you know the trick with Merrow Reejerey that empties your entire hand onto the battlefield).
Um, have you tried actually tried a Sliver deck with ~12+ lords with most being 2cc? ...maybe you have - just curious. My current "hyper aggro" runs the full x12 2cc lords (sinew/predatory/phantasmal) and x1 3cc Adaptive Automaton with of course x4 Aether Vial like Merfolk. There's a BIG difference between 2cc Sliver lords & Merrow Reejerey.
My argument for a heavy density of 1/2cc and very few 3cc is so that you WILL out-race Merfolk/aggro BECAUSE your curve is lower and you have more and cheaper lords... The only advantage Merfolk has is a cantrip-creature which is much slower/weaker than Sliver's replacement 2-drop. Then with all your non-lords (most 1cc!) giving your dudes evasion (flying/two-headed), flanking, or first-strike not only can you out-race Merfolk but many times are able to slaughter their dudes at the same time if need be. I play x1 Vigilant 2/2 for 1W Sliver and hit it a few games, lol, or you can just block with your summoning sickness dudes then alpha strike.
Played some matches for a couple hours today against aggro and had a good amount of turn 4 kills most with evasion (flying or two-headed sliver). This deck is the real deal. So far from my testing, this deck is faster than Zoo with Wild Nacatl... it's actually pretty scary ;). Again, my only concern are those random combo decks.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Strongly contemplating Tribal FlamesBoros Charm. Might drop Mirrorweave for them.
I'm rather happy with the mana base, in my testing so far, I've never run into a problem. All of the shocks can be pulled with Arid, and Marsh Flats only misses Stomping Grounds as well as Steam Vents.
Playtest just now:
T1 Cavern -> Striking Sliver
T2 Cavern -> Sinew (Swing for 2, Down to 18)
T3 Hallowed Fountain -> Sidewinder Sliver, Manaweft Sliver, Two-Headed Sliver (tapping Striking and Sinew)
T4 Marsh Flats -> Sacred Foundry -> Mirrorweave target Sinew (Swing for minimum of 30 damage)
Um, have you tried actually tried a Sliver deck with ~12+ lords with most being 2cc? ...maybe you have - just curious. My current "hyper aggro" runs the full x12 2cc lords (sinew/predatory/phantasmal) and x1 3cc Adaptive Automaton with of course x4 Aether Vial like Merfolk. There's a BIG difference between 2cc Sliver lords & Merrow Reejerey.
My argument for a heavy density of 1/2cc and very few 3cc is so that you WILL out-race Merfolk/aggro BECAUSE your curve is lower and you have more and cheaper lords... The only advantage Merfolk has is a cantrip-creature which is much slower/weaker than Sliver's replacement 2-drop. Then with all your non-lords (most 1cc!) giving your dudes evasion (flying/two-headed), flanking, or first-strike not only can you out-race Merfolk but many times are able to slaughter their dudes at the same time if need be. I play x1 Vigilant 2/2 for 1W Sliver and hit it a few games, lol, or you can just block with your summoning sickness dudes then alpha strike.
Played some matches for a couple hours today against aggro and had a good amount of turn 4 kills most with evasion (flying or two-headed sliver). This deck is the real deal. So far from my testing, this deck is faster than Zoo with Wild Nacatl... it's actually pretty scary ;). Again, my only concern are those random combo decks.
Ah, this is very true. I hadn't been working off the blitz list haha.
So what have you found to be the most effective evasion giver - Flying or Two-Headed?
Also, how well do you recover from board wipes?
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And for some board control, the deck has a sub-theme: Harmonic Sliver + Liquimetal Coating, turns every sliver spell thereafter into a Vindicate (sort of like Reaper King for slivers). I could also run Enchanted Evening and get pretty much the same effect, but I don't like it's CMC. An alternative would be to simply run Necrotic Sliver. but then you don't get to keep the sliver and it can be mana-intensive. Plus, you'd need to run/splash B.
I intend to try this out casually and competitively. I want to include AEther Vial, but it is not in my budget at this time and I don't know what to cut for it anyway. I suspect the deck may suffer from running out of gas beyond turn 5-6 (hence the Tezzeret's Gambits and Opaline Slivers), not to mention "auto-loses to removal & sweepers".
I could always cut the entire Harmonic Sliver + Liquimetal Coating sub-theme and go for a different strategy. Something like a Defender/Burn deck:
The idea with this deck would be to use Psionic Sliver to burn my opponent to death, while not losing my own creatures in the process. Gemhide Sliver is there for ramp (obviously). Fungus Sliver makes +1/+1 counters, whose ability will activate once Psionic Sliver is out. Sinew Sliver and Predatory Sliver boost my slivers so that they survive using Psionic Sliver's ability. Dormant Sliver is there for card draw and since I plan on burning my opponents to zero life, it's Defender 'setback' isn't really an issue. Voidslime, Oblivion Ring and Snakeform are for board control.
The obvious flaw is the average CMC of the deck. Other than Gemhide Sliver, and Sinew Sliver, every creature in the deck has a 4 or 5 CMC, making the deck a tad slow. In the mid/late game the deck does wonders, if I can make it that far. Hopefully, Voidslime, Oblivion Ring and Snakeform will help me make it to the mid/late game.
Ah, this is very true. I hadn't been working off the blitz list haha.
So what have you found to be the most effective evasion giver - Flying or Two-Headed?
Also, how well do you recover from board wipes?
Flying. ATM my list only has a singleton two-headed but sometimes I try x2, maybe x3.
Board wipes aren't really that tough - not overextending is always important and two lords and a mutavault can put a ton of pressure on an opponent while not overextending. I was testing against American Control over the weekend. Seemed like we are very slightly above 50% but when they have a ton of spot removal, especially Helix or Electrolyze vs. Phantasmal Image, it can be tough. My last ~8 spots in my current list are up in the air ATM. I like at least x1 Boros Charm but have tried more... sometimes it can be an issue to get RW early but not usually. I still feel like my list is rough and plan on a lot more testing.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
I'm wondering how many people on this thread realize that sedge sliver only gives +1/+1 if you control a swamp. It seems like, unless you're already five colors in a fetch-shock manabase (which I wouldn't recommend), this is the weakest lord you could possibly want.
I'm wondering how many people on this thread realize that sedge sliver only gives +1/+1 if you control a swamp. It seems like, unless you're already five colors in a fetch-shock manabase (which I wouldn't recommend), this is the weakest lord you could possibly want.
Am I just missing something?
The regenerate is potentially quite useful against a lot of the popular board wipes in the format other than Wrath of God
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I'm wondering how many people on this thread realize that sedge sliver only gives +1/+1 if you control a swamp. It seems like, unless you're already five colors in a fetch-shock manabase (which I wouldn't recommend), this is the weakest lord you could possibly want.
Am I just missing something?
No, I've been thinking the same thing. I don't know if its worth the trouble to run Sedge.
No, I've been thinking the same thing. I don't know if its worth the trouble to run Sedge.
If you have played with Sedge Silver and have access to black, you'll know that it's a house. You wanna be aggressive, and you wanna have resilience. Sedge gives both. Once you untap with Sedge on board, aside from Path, they will have a huge problem. Not having lots of black mana still allows you to recover from a "sweep" quicker. Granted, the mana base will be slightly more wonky, but I believe it's a risk worth taking, like for typical Zoo decks. More so in a meta lacking of Wrath of Gods and Damnations (most control players are playing Supreme Verdict too).
Those who have played slivers back in the Time Spiral block, I'm sure you guys can vouch.
If you have played with Sedge Silver and have access to black, you'll know that it's a house. You wanna be aggressive, and you wanna have resilience. Sedge gives both. Once you untap with Sedge on board, aside from Path, they will have a huge problem. Not having lots of black mana still allows you to recover from a "sweep" quicker.
Okay, I can understand that. I'm still confused by a lot of the lists on this thread that seem to be content running 4 sedge sliver with only a single blood crypt as a black mana source. At best you can only regenerate one guy with it, which has to be the sedge sliver whenever removal comes around, otherwise you're in exactly the same place with regard to your board as if you weren't running the sliver at all. you're basically splashing two additional colors in order to run a lord that says, "if this survives to your next turn, draw a card." Unless I can find a better reason to take a lot more damage from my manabase, I'm not sure it's worth it.
Your list actually looks pretty interesting, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to cut blue just yet (which is the biggest source of evasion, and also provides a lot of disruption). I'm also not sure if it's quite fast enough, but I haven't tested it at all so I could be way off base. If you have some good success with it I might be swayed, but I'm going to stick with bant right now, since that's a more familiar feel of slivers for me.
It's not really aiming for a quick kill, it rather tries to overwhelm your opponent without overextending. 1-2 lords plus lifelink or something gets REALLY nasty, and there are a lot of nice interactions in there. I also wanna find space for Bonescythe, since it turns any lord into a +2/+2 etc.
Double-strike doesn't affect the toughness
If you do find room, I wouldn't add more than one since you'll find that it'll sometimes be just what you need and othertimes it won't be that great whereas lords are always a fantastic draw.
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Okay, I can understand that. I'm still confused by a lot of the lists on this thread that seem to be content running 4 sedge sliver with only a single blood crypt as a black mana source. At best you can only regenerate one guy with it, which has to be the sedge sliver whenever removal comes around, otherwise you're in exactly the same place with regard to your board as if you weren't running the sliver at all. you're basically splashing two additional colors in order to run a lord that says, "if this survives to your next turn, draw a card." Unless I can find a better reason to take a lot more damage from my manabase, I'm not sure it's worth it.
Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing. With only 1 black source, it's not worth it. Here's my current build I posted a few pages back. I opted to play City of Brass over Cavern of Souls for the sole purpose of being able to generate black for Sedge. I also have Overgrown Tomb and Blood Crypt. Damage wise, with an Aether Vial in play, I can avoid tapping City of Brass unless you really need to. Darkheart Sliver and Helix helps to offset the life loss.
But being able to fit Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will help a lot. But the mana base is tight as it is. Will be hard to squeeze it in. Gotta drop the Mutavaults probably.
With regards to the Homing Sliver build, I've thought about it but I think Wish is more versatile and consistent. I definitely won't be drawing random 1-ofs that might not be useful for the current situation or my opening hand, which was what JPoJohnson was trying to say. I can simply look for what i need. Granted I only have 4 Wishes as compared to having X Slivers in hand. But I'm glad to see someone making it work.
I'm running something of a Blitz list and you can play around Pyro by landing two lords or simply not overextending and going in for some small beats to set up a lethal swing later.
Slivers get pumped pretty quick. And the damage adds up fast. Lead the Stampede has been working out nicely for my build, I'm also running Manaweft Sliver as a means to build a board faster against things like midrange.
I have to say, Sidewinder Sliver is awesome. "How many Lingering Soul's tokens did you have?" Don't care. Wish we had Horned Sliver as Flanking is sad panda without it. Maybe I can toss in a few Rancors. That might be what the deck needs.
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Great find on Domri Rade! It's the kind of card we need generate some CA. There's really no way for us to draw cards and Domri seems great.
Tribal Flames is great, but the utilty from Boros Charm and life gain from Lightning Helix makes them the more preferred choice. Especially with the amounts of shocks and fetches, the life gain will really help. Legion's Initative has caught my attention too. But again, I'd rather have Boros Charm for the same reasons above. Food for thought though.
Yeah, that's all I've been thinking about when trying to get a list I'm happy with. I've been comparing it with Merfolk since they both play similarly. And yes, the versatility is what makes it more appealing than Merfolk's straight-forward plan. I'm trying to incorporate both into one deck as of now.
Mirroweave is interesting. If you put it that way, you could definitely end the game right there. That's a sweet interaction. But is it worth including? I mean, if you get to the point where you have a couple lords in play and are beating face, you are most probably ahead on board control. But I guess it's great for just going "oops, I win". Let us know how that works out. Are you always happy drawing it in hand, or have you had wished it was something else?
Yeah man, this is Modern's two-bit Crystalline Sliver. I've thought about including it in my build but he 3 cmc makes it a turn-off for the more aggressive builds though (mine). Might be good to split 2-2, 3-1, or 1-3 with Sedge Sliver. But yeah, it's hella good, not cute. Just that, I'd rather have Sedge who works as a lord as well and the creature base is tight as hell as it is. Which brings me to a build I've just recently thought of and currently working on...
Here it is!
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Two-headed Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Spellskite
4 Sedge Sliver
Other Permanents 4
4 AEther Vial
Instants/Sorceries 12
4 Glittering Wish
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mutavault
4 City of Brass
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
1 Blood Crypt
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Darkheart Sliver (Lifegain)
2 Harmonic Sliver (Enchantment/Artifact)
1 Frenetic Sliver (Anti removal)
1 Necrotic Sliver (Deal the last few points of damage)
1 Sliver Legion (Winmore)
1 Jund Charm (Sweeper/Grave)
1 Rakdos Charm (Grave/Artifact)
1 Domri Rade (Much needed CA)
3 Boros Charm (Anti-sweeper/burn/combat trick)
2 Pithing Needle (Useful in general)
Glittering Wish is exactly what I think we're looking for. Gives us the choice of what to get, when we need it. The downside, is that this slows down our clock by a turn, but at the same time, it helps us deal with threats right away. Furthermore, with a vial in play, it'll be all right to leave mana open for casting it EOT.
The main deck shell is similar to my previous build but I opted to drop the Sidewinder Sliver for Two-Headed Sliver. I'm following a similar shell of Merfolk where they have 8 evasion enablers, so I upped this to 7. I have a soft spot for Spellskite as well, and it has never failed me once. So 2 of them, coupled with the Sedges, should give us just enough resiliency. Phantasmal Image has been a house as well, as some others has echoed. Very useful. Initially wanted to play 3 of them, but some sacrifices had to be made. Overall, I'm very satisfied with the main deck currently. I feel there's nothing I wanna change, apart from tweaking the numbers of each sliver.
The mana base, which I'm sure can still be worked on till it's perfect, is my only gripe for now. But like any zoo deck, the mana is janky and getting mana screwed sucks. That's my main reason of including City of Brass over Cavern of Souls. No choice but to do so to be able to reliably cast our non-creature spells.
As for the wishboard, that's all I can come up with at the moment. I skipped Opaline Sliver as I prefer Domri Rade. Cautery Sliver was skipped as well as it doesn't do much. Apart from these two, I don't think there are any other Slivers that are worth the utility. Unless I missed something?
Someone else had mentioned Glittering Wish to me, and I was thinking of moving some Lightning Helix to the board to make room for them (since it can fetch them anyway). Being able to grab some silver bullets like Gaddock Teeg, Fulminator Mage, Rakdos Charm, the aformentioned Harmonic Sliver, or even something like Sliver Legion could be good. If nothing else, you can always grab a Helix.
I also haven't been having an issue with mana. Between Cavern of Souls, City of Brass, Tendo Ice Bridge and Reflecting Pool, I have pretty much had all my bases covered. The rest are fetches and shocks. Sometimes I don't have a Swamp for Sedge Sliver, but that's the worst problem I run into, and I'm only running 23 lands with 5 colors. My only regret on the mana base is not running Mutavault, but it's hard to justify a colorless land in a 5 color deck (even if it's Mutavault in Slivers).
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Casting what EoT? Glittering Wish? That's a Sorcery.
Oh, now that's awkward. Mistake on my part. Well, let's just say it doesn't kill our tempo that bad as long as we still have a vial in play.
Hmmm, I'm having no issues with this base:
x4 Cavern of Souls
x1 Ancient Zigguarat
x1 City of Brass
x4 Reflecting Pool
x3 Arid Mesa
x5 Shocks (W/R, W/U, W/G, R/G, R/U)
x4 Mutavault
No issues with Slivers or having Boros Charm active early enough (turn ~3). However, I am skipping black atm (which thus includes Sedge Sliver). Have pwned both Zoo and Merfolk a very high % of the time in my brief testing.
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I have a rainbow list, I don't have mana issues. The 5 colored aggro list's threaten your opponent dead turn 4 EVERY game, it's a clock against combo telling your combo opponent you better go off because turn 4 your dead.
Against other aggro decks like Merfolk or R/G aggro your should just win.
I don't understand this statement at all. I would love to see a list that consistently does T4 EVERY game. I don't buy it. Especially since Merfolk threatens T4-T6 and runs more lords and is able to dump them far easier (If you run the deck, then you know the trick with Merrow Reejerey that empties your entire hand onto the battlefield).
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Um, have you tried actually tried a Sliver deck with ~12+ lords with most being 2cc? ...maybe you have - just curious. My current "hyper aggro" runs the full x12 2cc lords (sinew/predatory/phantasmal) and x1 3cc Adaptive Automaton with of course x4 Aether Vial like Merfolk. There's a BIG difference between 2cc Sliver lords & Merrow Reejerey.
My argument for a heavy density of 1/2cc and very few 3cc is so that you WILL out-race Merfolk/aggro BECAUSE your curve is lower and you have more and cheaper lords... The only advantage Merfolk has is a cantrip-creature which is much slower/weaker than Sliver's replacement 2-drop. Then with all your non-lords (most 1cc!) giving your dudes evasion (flying/two-headed), flanking, or first-strike not only can you out-race Merfolk but many times are able to slaughter their dudes at the same time if need be. I play x1 Vigilant 2/2 for 1W Sliver and hit it a few games, lol, or you can just block with your summoning sickness dudes then alpha strike.
Played some matches for a couple hours today against aggro and had a good amount of turn 4 kills most with evasion (flying or two-headed sliver). This deck is the real deal. So far from my testing, this deck is faster than Zoo with Wild Nacatl... it's actually pretty scary ;). Again, my only concern are those random combo decks.
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Mutavault
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mirrorweave
Creatures [28]:
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Sidewinder Sliver
3 Two-Headed Sliver
3 Manaweft Sliver
2 Striking Sliver
2 Sedge Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image
Strongly contemplating
Tribal FlamesBoros Charm. Might drop Mirrorweave for them.I'm rather happy with the mana base, in my testing so far, I've never run into a problem. All of the shocks can be pulled with Arid, and Marsh Flats only misses Stomping Grounds as well as Steam Vents.
Playtest just now:
T1 Cavern -> Striking Sliver
T2 Cavern -> Sinew (Swing for 2, Down to 18)
T3 Hallowed Fountain -> Sidewinder Sliver, Manaweft Sliver, Two-Headed Sliver (tapping Striking and Sinew)
T4 Marsh Flats -> Sacred Foundry -> Mirrorweave target Sinew (Swing for minimum of 30 damage)
Ah, this is very true. I hadn't been working off the blitz list haha.
So what have you found to be the most effective evasion giver - Flying or Two-Headed?
Also, how well do you recover from board wipes?
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
1 Sliver Legion
4 Virulent Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
2 Bonescythe Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Harmonic Sliver
2 Opaline Sliver
Artifacts: 4
4 Liquimetal Coating
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
3 Fuel for the Cause
Sorceries: 4
4 Triumph of the Hordes
Lands: 22
2 Seaside Citadel
2 Ancient Ziggurat
2 Tectonic Edge
6 Forest
5 Island
5 Plains
2 Pulmonic Sliver
2 Asceticism
4 Pistus Strike
2 Norn's Annex
2 True Conviction
The general idea is to combine Virulent Sliver's "Poisonous 1" with Infect via Triumph of the Hordes to give your opponent 10 poison counters very quickly. Sinew Sliver and Predatory Sliver provide size boosts, improving the effectiveness of Triumph of the Hordes. Shadow Sliver grants evasion, but should only be used when a win is imminent (aka "alpha strike"). Opaline Sliver helps with card draw. Sliver Legion (Coat of Arms for slivers, on a 7/7 creature!) is just plain great. Gemhide Sliver (all slivers are ramp). Tezzeret's Gambit draws two cards in the mid-game, while Fuel for the Cause is an effective counterspell, as well as adding a poison counter to our opponent (assuming he or she has been poisoned).
And for some board control, the deck has a sub-theme: Harmonic Sliver + Liquimetal Coating, turns every sliver spell thereafter into a Vindicate (sort of like Reaper King for slivers). I could also run Enchanted Evening and get pretty much the same effect, but I don't like it's CMC. An alternative would be to simply run Necrotic Sliver. but then you don't get to keep the sliver and it can be mana-intensive. Plus, you'd need to run/splash B.
I intend to try this out casually and competitively. I want to include AEther Vial, but it is not in my budget at this time and I don't know what to cut for it anyway. I suspect the deck may suffer from running out of gas beyond turn 5-6 (hence the Tezzeret's Gambits and Opaline Slivers), not to mention "auto-loses to removal & sweepers".
I could always cut the entire Harmonic Sliver + Liquimetal Coating sub-theme and go for a different strategy. Something like a Defender/Burn deck:
1 Sliver Legion
4 Dormant Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Gemhide Sliver
4 Fungus Sliver
4 Psionic Sliver
Enchantments: 4
4 Leyline of Vitality
3 Voidslime
2 Snakeform
3 Oblivion Ring
Lands: 23
2 Ancient Ziggurat
2 Seaside Citadel
2 Tectonic Edge
6 Plains
5 Island
6 Forest
4 Screeching Sliver
2 Asceticism
2 Norn's Annex
The idea with this deck would be to use Psionic Sliver to burn my opponent to death, while not losing my own creatures in the process. Gemhide Sliver is there for ramp (obviously). Fungus Sliver makes +1/+1 counters, whose ability will activate once Psionic Sliver is out. Sinew Sliver and Predatory Sliver boost my slivers so that they survive using Psionic Sliver's ability. Dormant Sliver is there for card draw and since I plan on burning my opponents to zero life, it's Defender 'setback' isn't really an issue. Voidslime, Oblivion Ring and Snakeform are for board control.
The obvious flaw is the average CMC of the deck. Other than Gemhide Sliver, and Sinew Sliver, every creature in the deck has a 4 or 5 CMC, making the deck a tad slow. In the mid/late game the deck does wonders, if I can make it that far. Hopefully, Voidslime, Oblivion Ring and Snakeform will help me make it to the mid/late game.
Or, I could always try a simple BR aggro build:
4 Frenzy Sliver
3 Striking Sliver
3 Two-Headed Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
3 Homing Sliver
3 Bonesplitter Sliver
3 Blur Sliver
2 Thorncaster Sliver
3 Blightning
3 Terminate
3 Dash Hopes
Artifacts: 4
2 Mask of Avacyn
2 Gorgon Flail
Lands: 22
4 Akoum Refuge
2 Tectonic Edge
9 Mountain
7 Swamp
4 Ghostflame Sliver
My only real issue with this deck is that I don't think it can compete with Zoo, etc.
Does anyone have any suggestions or comments? Is this even the right way to go with Modern Sliver decks? Thanks for any and all help.
Standard Deck(s)
Nayaish Slivers
(W/G)Selesnya Populate(G/W)
Dega Midrange
Extended Deck(s)
(R/G)Transforming Werewolves(G/R)
Modern Deck(s)
Slivggro
(W/U)Level Up(U/W)
(W/G)Muraganda Vanilla(G/W)
Flying. ATM my list only has a singleton two-headed but sometimes I try x2, maybe x3.
Board wipes aren't really that tough - not overextending is always important and two lords and a mutavault can put a ton of pressure on an opponent while not overextending. I was testing against American Control over the weekend. Seemed like we are very slightly above 50% but when they have a ton of spot removal, especially Helix or Electrolyze vs. Phantasmal Image, it can be tough. My last ~8 spots in my current list are up in the air ATM. I like at least x1 Boros Charm but have tried more... sometimes it can be an issue to get RW early but not usually. I still feel like my list is rough and plan on a lot more testing.
Am I just missing something?
The regenerate is potentially quite useful against a lot of the popular board wipes in the format other than Wrath of God
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
No, I've been thinking the same thing. I don't know if its worth the trouble to run Sedge.
Standard Deck(s)
Nayaish Slivers
(W/G)Selesnya Populate(G/W)
Dega Midrange
Extended Deck(s)
(R/G)Transforming Werewolves(G/R)
Modern Deck(s)
Slivggro
(W/U)Level Up(U/W)
(W/G)Muraganda Vanilla(G/W)
If you have played with Sedge Silver and have access to black, you'll know that it's a house. You wanna be aggressive, and you wanna have resilience. Sedge gives both. Once you untap with Sedge on board, aside from Path, they will have a huge problem. Not having lots of black mana still allows you to recover from a "sweep" quicker. Granted, the mana base will be slightly more wonky, but I believe it's a risk worth taking, like for typical Zoo decks. More so in a meta lacking of Wrath of Gods and Damnations (most control players are playing Supreme Verdict too).
Those who have played slivers back in the Time Spiral block, I'm sure you guys can vouch.
Okay, I can understand that. I'm still confused by a lot of the lists on this thread that seem to be content running 4 sedge sliver with only a single blood crypt as a black mana source. At best you can only regenerate one guy with it, which has to be the sedge sliver whenever removal comes around, otherwise you're in exactly the same place with regard to your board as if you weren't running the sliver at all. you're basically splashing two additional colors in order to run a lord that says, "if this survives to your next turn, draw a card." Unless I can find a better reason to take a lot more damage from my manabase, I'm not sure it's worth it.
Double-strike doesn't affect the toughness
If you do find room, I wouldn't add more than one since you'll find that it'll sometimes be just what you need and othertimes it won't be that great whereas lords are always a fantastic draw.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Yeah, I've been wondering the same thing. With only 1 black source, it's not worth it. Here's my current build I posted a few pages back. I opted to play City of Brass over Cavern of Souls for the sole purpose of being able to generate black for Sedge. I also have Overgrown Tomb and Blood Crypt. Damage wise, with an Aether Vial in play, I can avoid tapping City of Brass unless you really need to. Darkheart Sliver and Helix helps to offset the life loss.
But being able to fit Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will help a lot. But the mana base is tight as it is. Will be hard to squeeze it in. Gotta drop the Mutavaults probably.
4 Galerider Sliver
3 Two-headed Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Spellskite
4 Sedge Sliver
Other Permanents 4
4 AEther Vial
Instants/Sorceries 12
4 Glittering Wish
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mutavault
4 City of Brass
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
1 Blood Crypt
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Darkheart Sliver (Lifegain)
2 Harmonic Sliver (Enchantment/Artifact)
1 Frenetic Sliver (Anti removal)
1 Necrotic Sliver (Deal the last few points of damage)
1 Sliver Legion (Winmore)
1 Jund Charm (Sweeper/Grave)
1 Rakdos Charm (Grave/Artifact)
1 Domri Rade (Much needed CA)
3 Boros Charm (Anti-sweeper/burn/combat trick)
2 Pithing Needle (Useful in general)
With regards to the Homing Sliver build, I've thought about it but I think Wish is more versatile and consistent. I definitely won't be drawing random 1-ofs that might not be useful for the current situation or my opening hand, which was what JPoJohnson was trying to say. I can simply look for what i need. Granted I only have 4 Wishes as compared to having X Slivers in hand. But I'm glad to see someone making it work.
Slivers get pumped pretty quick. And the damage adds up fast. Lead the Stampede has been working out nicely for my build, I'm also running Manaweft Sliver as a means to build a board faster against things like midrange.
I have to say, Sidewinder Sliver is awesome. "How many Lingering Soul's tokens did you have?" Don't care. Wish we had Horned Sliver as Flanking is sad panda without it. Maybe I can toss in a few Rancors. That might be what the deck needs.
4x Mutavault
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Cavern of Souls
3x Breeding Pool
3x Temple Garden
2x Arid Mesa
1x Blood Crypt
1x Overgrown tomb
1x Forest
1x Plains
4x Sinew Sliver
4x Predatory Sliver
4x Manaweft Sliver
4x Sedge Sliver
4x Phantasmal Image
Other SPells: 17
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Helix
4x Aether Vial
3x Dismember
Any advice/thoughts?
Standard: XDon't play.X
Legacy: BUReanimatorUB
Vintage: URBWGDBRU
4x Misty Rainforest ->
W Temple Garden,
U Breeding Pool,
B Overgrown Tomb,
R ???,
G any of your 3 green shocks.
2x Arid Mesa ->
W Temple Garden,
U ???,
B Blood Crypt,
R Blood Crypt,
G Temple Garden.
This problem can easily be solved by
adding onereplacing one Breeding Pool or Temple Garden with a Steam Vents.