Yeah, I agree about the red stuff. U have 20 lands, being 2x Ghost Quarter 2x Windswept Heath and 4x Flagstones of Trokair. U have a lot of 3cmc dudes and a few on 4cmc slot. I would replace the GQ for 2 more plains (side out GQ if u have Tron problems). I personally dont like Flagstones of Trokair, but if u do, I would cut it down to 2 unless u have Smallpox problems. More plains may secure u to have 3-4 lands on turn 6-7 at most. Imagine ur starting hand being 2x Flagstones of Trokair and 1x Ghost Quarter :/
I totally agree about that, but burning out so much mana can make u never draw the third or fourth land. Im speaking theorically, never tried this out. It seems risky but if works out, its awesome
Would be nice to give us the feedback of this tatic, because the lack of a draw engine is not cool. I think Im the only one running puresteel build here, I think its better than the aggro knights, but is easily hated by a Stony Silence :/
Hey guys, back again, made a small change by getting rid of Knight of the white orchid and replace it with Leonin Skyhunter, with the amount of fetchlands the deck is running the flying seemed to be more relevant in matches I found. I've tried to make a Naya theme with some burn spells for added aggro speed but I just can't seem to find any slots, all the knights seem so awesome! /firstworldproblems
Hey guys, back again, made a small change by getting rid of Knight of the white orchid and replace it with Leonin Skyhunter, with the amount of fetchlands the deck is running the flying seemed to be more relevant in matches I found. I've tried to make a Naya theme with some burn spells for added aggro speed but I just can't seem to find any slots, all the knights seem so awesome! /firstworldproblems
Not too bad! Your mainboard looks pretty solid. Here are my thoughts:
Creatures - 4x Fiendslayer and a total absence of Orchid may be counter-productive. Unless you have a blistering hot meta of Twin / UR aggro / UWR control, I probably would cut your fiendslayer count a bit. There are tons of worthwhile 3cmc knight cards... Even a 4th Reliquary could be useful, since you have so many fetchlands. Missing Knight of the White Orchid means you could potentially lose out on say, a T4 drop of Linvala (if you were vialing the Orchid in) that could save the game in a combo matchup. Your call though! I would personally switch out 2x Skyhunter for 2x Orchid, but if you want to keep with the aggro theme then the skyhunters may be preferable.
Finishers/Support - In my own humble opinion, you may also find it helpful if you cut 1 of your Honor of the Pure for a finisher like Light from Within or Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Even Hero of Bladehold or Heliod, God of the Sun would do, since you have all the right conditions. In those longer games where the field becomes deadlocked and the match drags on, its nice to know there is something in your deck you can still topdeck into and swing the field in your favour, rather than just seeing another Honor of the Pure. This may harm your aggro consistency once in a blue moon but I think the pros outweigh the cons here.
Land - Flagstones of Trokair are awesome, i'm a huge fan of them and I usually always run them, but I don't think they are doing much for your strategy. You need 4 for any real relevance, unless you are facing Pox. Switch them for another Cavern of Souls and another Horizon Canopy.
Sideboard - IMO 4x Rest in Peace is a bit excessive; I have found 2 to work fine, but if you feel you really need it in the relevant game, I guess the more you have the better. I would argue even 3 would be fine - this is what I ran for quite some time.
I'm a big fan of Pithing Needle myself. I find it often wins games.
Last comment: I think this was discussed already (and you may not have any Disenchant) but I would advise switching from Naturalize to Disenchant - your white manabase is far stronger. Switch to Sundering Growth if you add Elspeth, Hero or Brimaz.
Thanks for the advice, I don't have anymore Caverns or Horizons at the moment so I'll have to keep the Flagstones for the time being, but taking your advice here's the changes to the deck. The meta in SoCal can be varied but currently skewed towards aggro right now with some D&T showing up a lot more. The fact that no matter where you go all the stores are sold out of Swiftspears and Cruises kinda says a lot lmao!
@Amlin: It seems to me more KotR food might be useful than the two Flagstones. Flagstones can produce shenanigans, but with only two and no Ghost Quarter, I don't see them working out for you. I might also run one Forest as well because Blood Moon is a thing.
Canopy is very fine and Cavern is as well, but with Vials and KotR, I certainly wouldn't even consider running another Cavern. Vials obviously work around counters and if you can get KotR on board, she can search out a Cavern for later. I might even drop one for something else; there are many lands one can consider as one-of's with KotR.
With Meadowgrain and Fiendslayer, you may get by just fine without Leylines.
If there's any B in your neighborhood, you might like White Shield Crusader instead of Skyhunter. The pump is pretty good but he obviously sucks if folks play Electrolyze or Forked Bolt in your neighborhood.
I agree, Sejiri Steppe is a great fetch with KotR. As for running a full set of Cavern of Souls, obviously this is an expensive endeavor but in my experience I don't think I will ever run anything less. It's just so important in the average matchup and the colourless mana hardly puts a dent in your tempo. It seems in all of my control games the caverns and vials never show up, and when they finally do they show up late. You're praying for one each time, and you can't rely on having one fetched with KotR. It wont matter if they just counter her as she is cast - do you think they will let you get that knight into play? Even if you do get her to the field and opt to fetch a Cavern you have to wait a turn until she can tap, and at this point you may be wanting a white mana source or a Sejiri Steppe instead of having to waste that turn's fetch on a colourless source (that you just as well could have had in your opening hand).
So having any less than 8 of these counterspell sources for your creatures (which are your win condition) seems like you are holding back your potential, at least to me. Obviously it's expensive to run 4 Caverns, but i'm speaking in terms of using a knight deck to its fullest potential. Maybe you don't need 4 in less competitive metas?
@pzbw7z, What do you mean you may be fine without leylines with Meadowgrain and Fiendslayer? Is that in reference to Storm?
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Standard WRG Naya Blitz WR Boros Aggro W White Lightning
Modern W Death and Taxes WKnights R Red Deck Wins RG Zoo WG Hatebears WG Aura Hexproof WU Luminarch Ascension WB Tokens WUB Esper Control
'Tact' is the art of making a point without making an enemy. - Sir Isaac Newton
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
@pzbw7z, What do you mean you may be fine without leylines with Meadowgrain and Fiendslayer? Is that in reference to Storm?
Burn really. I don't know that I'd devote side-board cards to Storm unless I knew some of the other kids were playing it. It doesn't seem to popular these days.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, definitely a lot to consider. I certainly want this deck to do well in matches and hold its own, I have no problem with getting the cards I need, so if I need another Cavern I'm more than happy to get one more if that's what's needed.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, definitely a lot to consider. I certainly want this deck to do well in matches and hold its own, I have no problem with getting the cards I need, so if I need another Cavern I'm more than happy to get one more if that's what's needed.
How often have you ever thought you needed another? I've often wished a Cavern was something else and I run only three. The right amount depends on what the other kids in your neighborhood play. Honestly, most of the time I could get by without it at all. You aren't running any other colorless lands, so that's not a factor although you might consider them in the future. KotR's ability to fetch up lands makes it tempting run run single copies of things like Ghost Quarter.
It becomes more of an issue if one includes WW non-creature spells such as Light from Within, Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Leyline of Sanctity. It's also a problem with leveling Student of Warfare. I don't run anything in that first category main-deck but I've run into trouble with my Student often enough.
Seems like he would be pretty good with the Indestructible from Knight Exemplar, and the Battlecry pumps you for further attacking.
Ran him for a short while, when I tried to build the deck, back when it was in standard. I'd take a 2-damage first striker any day. We rarely attack with more than two creatures at a time, and this deck's main strength is being able to trade efficiently in creature-based matchups. I could see him in a heavy-combo meta, but otherwise I'd stick with the usual two-drops.
On another note, I dropped 2 matches to splinter-twin last FNM. What is the best sideboard choices for this matchup?
They left out the part where Yawgmoth is resurrected,but has been cleansed as Yawgmoth the Redeemed,and now must awaken Chromium so that Karn can fuse with him and create what can only be known as : the ultimate taco.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, definitely a lot to consider. I certainly want this deck to do well in matches and hold its own, I have no problem with getting the cards I need, so if I need another Cavern I'm more than happy to get one more if that's what's needed.
How often have you ever thought you needed another? I've often wished a Cavern was something else and I run only three. The right amount depends on what the other kids in your neighborhood play. Honestly, most of the time I could get by without it at all. You aren't running any other colorless lands, so that's not a factor although you might consider them in the future. KotR's ability to fetch up lands makes it tempting run run single copies of things like Ghost Quarter.
It becomes more of an issue if one includes WW non-creature spells such as Light from Within, Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Leyline of Sanctity. It's also a problem with leveling Student of Warfare. I don't run anything in that first category main-deck but I've run into trouble with my Student often enough.
I used to think the same thing, but in reality the chances of this happening are extremely slim. In all my games i've never had a colourless mana problem dropping a 2WW permanent, although I've never run more than 4 nonwhite sources. Remember you get max 4 Caverns, and there are anywhere from 14-18 other white mana sources in your deck. 99% of the time you will be totally fine and have enough white mana. The only time it's a pain is when it prevents you from executing a T2 level up of Student of Warfare, but most of the time you will probably just be warping in a 2cmc creature anyways. It's not enough of a dealbreaker for me with the counterspells that I dodge, and as far as I can tell i've never lost any games from not getting a T2 levelup of a Student.
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Standard WRG Naya Blitz WR Boros Aggro W White Lightning
Modern W Death and Taxes WKnights R Red Deck Wins RG Zoo WG Hatebears WG Aura Hexproof WU Luminarch Ascension WB Tokens WUB Esper Control
'Tact' is the art of making a point without making an enemy. - Sir Isaac Newton
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Seems like he would be pretty good with the Indestructible from Knight Exemplar, and the Battlecry pumps you for further attacking.
Ran him for a short while, when I tried to build the deck, back when it was in standard. I'd take a 2-damage first striker any day. We rarely attack with more than two creatures at a time, and this deck's main strength is being able to trade efficiently in creature-based matchups. I could see him in a heavy-combo meta, but otherwise I'd stick with the usual two-drops.
On another note, I dropped 2 matches to splinter-twin last FNM. What is the best sideboard choices for this matchup?
Well said about Accorder Paladin. You have to build around him more than you just add him in. I used him in a standard deck with Hyena Umbra to great effect a few times, those were some good memories. Maybe he has a chance in a hyper-aggro deck aiming for fast, blowout victories with Brave the Elements?
As for dealing with Twin, it's a tough matchup. I played a guy yesterday that was holding me off with burn, counterspells, two Spellskite and a Batterskull until he used Dig through Time and Treasure Cruise. Those two new spells are totally ridiculous, IMO. The sideboard cards I was using were Disenchant (x3), Pithing Needle (x3), Celestial Purge (x1, also stops Twin combo). For support I brought in Rest in Peace (x2) to stop Snapcaster and Delve, Kor Firewalker (x4) for life/aggression/sword targets and Mark of Asylum (x1) to stop the burn. Twin I find is one of the few matchups were you have to completely change your game to more of a control focus in order to keep up. It just functions so well as a combo deck and UR aggro-control variant.
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Standard WRG Naya Blitz WR Boros Aggro W White Lightning
Modern W Death and Taxes WKnights R Red Deck Wins RG Zoo WG Hatebears WG Aura Hexproof WU Luminarch Ascension WB Tokens WUB Esper Control
'Tact' is the art of making a point without making an enemy. - Sir Isaac Newton
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
With what you said about changing your game to more control oriented, do you think there's potential for a straight up control oriented Knight deck? I think if there is it'd have to be W/U or Bant colors.
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Yeah, totally possible. I think the right UW or even Bant list could work. We could abuse those stupid cards Treasure Cruise and Dig through Time. I'm almost tempted to take a hiatus from magic for a while until something gets banned or new cards to counter them are printed. RiP is pretty much a requirement now, all that I ever see played, about 80% of the time are UR variants of some sort (UWR midrange/control, and now jeskai midrange; UR aggro; Twin; UR storm). It's rare that I see a game without Lightning Bolt, Cryptic Command or either of those two Delve cards.
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Standard WRG Naya Blitz WR Boros Aggro W White Lightning
Modern W Death and Taxes WKnights R Red Deck Wins RG Zoo WG Hatebears WG Aura Hexproof WU Luminarch Ascension WB Tokens WUB Esper Control
'Tact' is the art of making a point without making an enemy. - Sir Isaac Newton
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Do you think its to the point where we would need to maindeck Rest In Peace or should it stay in the sideboard? What I'm thinking so creature wise in a Bant build is cutting the Knights down to Knight of the Reliquary and Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers (since they're out of Bolt range) and giving Deft Duelist a shot. He may not be a Knight but I think there's potential with him.
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Collecting Timbermare, hit me up if you have any for trade
Well Im going to my first Modern tournament in a long time at 1:30 today. Will report back with match ups and results. My tech for twin and tempo will be two main decked Grand Abolisher . Wish me luck.
Wellll the tournament did not go so well for me. I would call the day a success I suppose.. I was able to trade in for major store credit and complete my standard deck, as well as pull a Sarkhan and 3 fetches from a single fat pack.
However, tournament wise, it was only a 9-man queue and everyone came ready to play. I went 0-3 on the day.
Here is the deck I ran. I went with Monowhite and tried out some unique choices. Overall, they were decent.
Game one I had him down to 3 life due to Mirran Crusader beats. He podded into Archangel of Thune. I just need to topdeck a Brave the Elements to win. Next turn he topdecks a Spike Feederand gains infite life. Scoop.
Game two:
I draw infite lands and get beat down by Lingering Souls tokens and Restoration Angel. Loss.
Match two - Junk Midrange (1-2)
Game one:
He Inquisitions me twice and Thoughtseizes me, then I get beat down by 2 Seige Rhinos. It's hard to win without cards to play.
Game two.
This game he brings in Timely Reinforcements to play around my Mirran Crusaders. He's at 11 life with 3 soldier tokens on the field. I brave for pro white and swing for lethal. Only win on the day.
Game three.
This game lasts forever, but I never really have control. I just withstand lots of hate cards and it takes him forever to kill me as he slowly wittles me away with soldier tokens and Vault of the Archangel.
Match three - Izzet Twin (0-2)
Game one
Grand Abolisher does a great job of annoying the hell out of him for a long time, but Treasure Cruise helps him find the bolt eventually and he combos me on turn 9. Loss.
Game three.
I hate this game. He probes me, counters everything I play, draws three cards, and kills me with a turn one Delver.
Conclusion. This deck, at least Monowhite, is not viable in a competitive meta. I will not be playing it next week. We either need to play Treasure Cruise ourselves, or rethink somethings. Obviously my deck is veryy non competitive, but after getting a taste of what the format is like, I hate Modern. I will probably try UW Quest next week and try some turn 2-3 wins. Who knows.
Wellll the tournament did not go so well for me. I would call the day a success I suppose.. I was able to trade in for major store credit and complete my standard deck, as well as pull a Sarkhan and 3 fetches from a single fat pack.
However, tournament wise, it was only a 9-man queue and everyone came ready to play. I went 0-3 on the day.
Here is the deck I ran. I went with Monowhite and tried out some unique choices. Overall, they were decent.
Game one I had him down to 3 life due to Mirran Crusader beats. He podded into Archangel of Thune. I just need to topdeck a Brave the Elements to win. Next turn he topdecks a Spike Feederand gains infite life. Scoop.
Game two:
I draw infite lands and get beat down by Lingering Souls tokens and Restoration Angel. Loss.
Match two - Junk Midrange (1-2)
Game one:
He Inquisitions me twice and Thoughtseizes me, then I get beat down by 2 Seige Rhinos. It's hard to win without cards to play.
Game two.
This game he brings in Timely Reinforcements to play around my Mirran Crusaders. He's at 11 life with 3 soldier tokens on the field. I brave for pro white and swing for lethal. Only win on the day.
Game three.
This game lasts forever, but I never really have control. I just withstand lots of hate cards and it takes him forever to kill me as he slowly wittles me away with soldier tokens and Vault of the Archangel.
Match three - Izzet Twin (0-2)
Game one
Grand Abolisher does a great job of annoying the hell out of him for a long time, but Treasure Cruise helps him find the bolt eventually and he combos me on turn 9. Loss.
Game three.
I hate this game. He probes me, counters everything I play, draws three cards, and kills me with a turn one Delver.
Conclusion. This deck, at least Monowhite, is not viable in a competitive meta. I will not be playing it next week. We either need to play Treasure Cruise ourselves, or rethink somethings. Obviously my deck is veryy non competitive, but after getting a taste of what the format is like, I hate Modern. I will probably try UW Quest next week and try some turn 2-3 wins. Who knows.
Well, bad things happen sometimes. You have to be used to the deck and to the meta do play good enought. A few suggestions about ur deck:
Wellll the tournament did not go so well for me. I would call the day a success I suppose.. I was able to trade in for major store credit and complete my standard deck, as well as pull a Sarkhan and 3 fetches from a single fat pack.
However, tournament wise, it was only a 9-man queue and everyone came ready to play. I went 0-3 on the day.
Here is the deck I ran. I went with Monowhite and tried out some unique choices. Overall, they were decent.
Game one I had him down to 3 life due to Mirran Crusader beats. He podded into Archangel of Thune. I just need to topdeck a Brave the Elements to win. Next turn he topdecks a Spike Feederand gains infite life. Scoop.
Game two:
I draw infite lands and get beat down by Lingering Souls tokens and Restoration Angel. Loss.
Match two - Junk Midrange (1-2)
Game one:
He Inquisitions me twice and Thoughtseizes me, then I get beat down by 2 Seige Rhinos. It's hard to win without cards to play.
Game two.
This game he brings in Timely Reinforcements to play around my Mirran Crusaders. He's at 11 life with 3 soldier tokens on the field. I brave for pro white and swing for lethal. Only win on the day.
Game three.
This game lasts forever, but I never really have control. I just withstand lots of hate cards and it takes him forever to kill me as he slowly wittles me away with soldier tokens and Vault of the Archangel.
Match three - Izzet Twin (0-2)
Game one
Grand Abolisher does a great job of annoying the hell out of him for a long time, but Treasure Cruise helps him find the bolt eventually and he combos me on turn 9. Loss.
Game three.
I hate this game. He probes me, counters everything I play, draws three cards, and kills me with a turn one Delver.
Conclusion. This deck, at least Monowhite, is not viable in a competitive meta. I will not be playing it next week. We either need to play Treasure Cruise ourselves, or rethink somethings. Obviously my deck is veryy non competitive, but after getting a taste of what the format is like, I hate Modern. I will probably try UW Quest next week and try some turn 2-3 wins. Who knows.
I'm sorry the matches didn't go so well, Tyberius. I similarly had to learn the hard way when I went to my first Modern tournament (I was stomped in my matches as well). Don't rule out mono-white as competitive - knights in essence are a modified hatebears list. And while mono-white may not have as easy a time as mono-blue or mono-red we still have some of the most-well costed creatures in modern, the best combat tricks, and some of the best defensive spells. Looking at your list and how your matchups went, these are my suggestions for your deck:
1. Midrange Power Cards: I find that these have become increasingly relevant in a midrange, creature-focused deck. These could range from Swords to Elspeth, Knight-Errant, to Batterskull, and/or to Light from Within. I find Light to be an excellent niche card for this format. It feels (and often plays) like an anti-meta card - I rarely lose after one of them is successfully cast. No deck is prepared to deal with a small horde of 4/4 first strikers, not unless they're going to combo off something. I know the pain of playing 2/2 bear after 2/2 bear and seeing them get Bolted, Electrolyze'd, or burned some other way and then Snapcasted back again to generate even more card advantage to your opponent. This card turns that concept on its head.
You have the right idea with Sword of Fire and Ice, Riders of Gavony and Armored Ascension as power cards, but that's about it. Instead of running just 3 you should run more. I run 7-8 myself and find this to be just the right amount.
2. More Bolt-Proof Cards: This concept has seen some serious discussion on this thread. Hero of Bladehold, Wilt-Leaf Liege, Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers, and Brimaz are a few. All of them pass the bolt test, and sometimes you can't rely on having a Brave in hand, two HotP or a single Light in play to stop the onslaught of burn spells. It's important to render as many cards in their hand as frivolous against our creatures as possible. And other than the bolt proof creatures, a great card against UR is Harm's Way. Usually you will save your creature from getting burned and instead burn his Delver or Young Pyromancer.
Having lots of bolt-hate is a meta call, and right now Red and Blue are the dominant colours. We all need to adjust accordingly, or you will keep seeing that agonizing 2-for-1 advantage go to your opponent.
3. More Colour Protection: This is highly relevant for having good targets for your swords or any activated abilities, and I think pro-red is the strongest colour protection we can use right now. UR lists seem to be running rampant (see http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO, where UR aggro is currently at 16% of the meta, Twin is at 6%, UWx midrange is 4% and RDW is 11%). The need to protect against Lightning Bolt and its ilk is greater than ever. I would say investing in 2-3 Fiendslayer Paladin and a Mark of Asylum for your SB should be a priority.
4. Counterspell Sources: This is the other way we deal with those UR lists. Pro-red sources smack them with one hand, and "can't be countered" sources backhand them with the other. Right now it doesn't look like you have any Vials or Caverns. It's an expensive investment but it will make a world of difference in your games (see how particular your LGS is about using printed versions of cards... I once played against a guy that used a $100 bill in a card sleeve as a proxy Jace). I run 4 Caverns and 4 Vial to maximize my chances. I don't think i'll ever run anything less, unless i'm gunning for a fast aggro deck with a routine T4 win ratio (what "White Lightning" is to "Red Deck Wins). Counterspells and burn are our biggest weaknesses (next to control-combo decks), and pro red + vial/cavern is the best way to deal with it (and often completely hose your opponent).
I remember a while ago, Nabbydian mentioned that having a Vial in play can throw off your opponent and can cause them to make poor choices. Keeping a vial at 3 with a few extra lands kept in your hand may cause them to play more hesitantly. And defying their counterspells by landing creature after creature safely onto the field will sometimes cause your opponent to tap out, dumping creatures from his hand and using up his Thought Scour/Serum Visions/Gitaxian Probe (with mana). It's at this point you can safely play Light, Elspeth or a Sword (playing and equipping in one go when you're at 5 lands); this can often lead to "GG". I've only ever had ONE game where I was cheesed with a Disrupting Shoal (I think it was from a Twin deck).
5. MB/SB Changes: So in your list, I think one of my biggest surprises is not seeing Hero of Bladehold. You have all the right ingredients for her to shine, so where is she? I would drop 2 of your lands, some of your Mirran Crusader (he's amazing in a BG/BUG/Pod matchup but not many other places), your Gavony Riders (keep those for the kitchen tables, no one plays fair at Modern tourneys) and maybe your Grand Abolishers and Silverblade Paladin. It's good to have a few tech cards in with your creatures, so you may find the Abolisher deserves a slot or two (although he's less relevant as the game goes on). Hell, I may even try running him. Right now I run a single Leonin Relic-Warder to deal with the rare shenanigans that come up via Birthing Pod, Worship, Spreading Seas, Vedalken Shackles, etc. Call me crazy but I think you should run 4 Hero of Bladehold.
If Vial is not an option for you, then you should seriously consider running Suppression Field, probably even in the mainboard (instead of Vial). It's easy to build around (although you will have to switch out your Student of Warfare and any artifacts). I made a list with a human theme and ran Champion of the Parish, Thalia, BtE, HotP, etc. It worked pretty well. You can also keep Stony Silence in your side this way and devastate Affinity and Tron decks. SO MUCH of the Tier 1 modern decks rely on activated abilities, so why not hose them? Linvala, Keeper of Silence is another consideration.
Thanks to you both for your input. I am definitely not giving up on this deck, and never will. I am just definitely at the point where if I want to keep playing it competitively, the money aspect will increase tremendously, and that is a decision not to be taken lightly. I did recently get a promotion, but it is the holidays. My plan now is to hopefully win some store credit via Standard tournaments, and put that towards the deck.
For your input: The Eiganjo Castle: Since it comes into play untapped, I see no downside in not running one. If it can save my Exemplar once in a blue moon, why not.
For the real, main input. Yes, all your input is exactly as I expected. I know I am playing subpar cards where real ones should be. I will be perfectly honest when I say I have never used Vial as a player, I have only been playing since Zendikar, but they are definitely out of my price range right now, being about $80 for a set. If I can get a set, I will definitely try them. Same goes for Caverns. If I had them, I would use 2-3 of them. I'm not sure on a full set, I don't want them to hinder my ability to cast spells.
As for Hero of Bladehold. I love this card and I can definitely procure a playset. Is 4 not too much though?
I can potentially get 1-2 Elspeths. I have been wanting to try her.
I do have 2 Fiendslayer Paladins and will SB next time I play after this tournament based on my meta, but as I said, next tournament I will be taking a new deck until I can procure these new cards.
I love the input and I will definitely be tweaking my deck and giving updates as I do. I would like to get a SoFaF too. I kept thinking a set of Squadron Hawks and Swords would be wonderful in the deck as I was playing it. Has anyone tried that?
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4x Fiendslayer Paladin
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
3x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Leonin Skyhunter
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4x Student of Warfare
Enchantment (4)
4x Honor of the Pure
Land (21)
3x Cavern of Souls
2x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Horizon Canopy
4x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
4x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x AEther Vial
Instant (7)
3x Brave the Elements
4x Path to Exile
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Mirran Crusader
3x Naturalize
3x Rest in Peace
2x Wrath of God
RDW
Zoo
CoCo Elves
Creatures - 4x Fiendslayer and a total absence of Orchid may be counter-productive. Unless you have a blistering hot meta of Twin / UR aggro / UWR control, I probably would cut your fiendslayer count a bit. There are tons of worthwhile 3cmc knight cards... Even a 4th Reliquary could be useful, since you have so many fetchlands. Missing Knight of the White Orchid means you could potentially lose out on say, a T4 drop of Linvala (if you were vialing the Orchid in) that could save the game in a combo matchup. Your call though! I would personally switch out 2x Skyhunter for 2x Orchid, but if you want to keep with the aggro theme then the skyhunters may be preferable.
Finishers/Support - In my own humble opinion, you may also find it helpful if you cut 1 of your Honor of the Pure for a finisher like Light from Within or Elspeth, Knight-Errant. Even Hero of Bladehold or Heliod, God of the Sun would do, since you have all the right conditions. In those longer games where the field becomes deadlocked and the match drags on, its nice to know there is something in your deck you can still topdeck into and swing the field in your favour, rather than just seeing another Honor of the Pure. This may harm your aggro consistency once in a blue moon but I think the pros outweigh the cons here.
Land - Flagstones of Trokair are awesome, i'm a huge fan of them and I usually always run them, but I don't think they are doing much for your strategy. You need 4 for any real relevance, unless you are facing Pox. Switch them for another Cavern of Souls and another Horizon Canopy.
Sideboard - IMO 4x Rest in Peace is a bit excessive; I have found 2 to work fine, but if you feel you really need it in the relevant game, I guess the more you have the better. I would argue even 3 would be fine - this is what I ran for quite some time.
I would probably cut the O-rings; they are a little slow. Great, but slow. Try a few singletons that could be relevant for your matchups; cards that aren't quintessential but "you don't mind running into" during your 2nd and 3rd rounds - i.e. Torpor Orb, Mark of Asylum, Dismember, Celestial Purge, Dawn Charm, Selesnya Charm, Qasali Pridemage, Gaddock Teeg, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Beast Within, etc... Lots of options!
I'm a big fan of Pithing Needle myself. I find it often wins games.
Last comment: I think this was discussed already (and you may not have any Disenchant) but I would advise switching from Naturalize to Disenchant - your white manabase is far stronger. Switch to Sundering Growth if you add Elspeth, Hero or Brimaz.
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
3x Fiendslayer Paladin
4x Knight Exemplar
4x Knight of Meadowgrain
3x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Knight of the White Orchid
3x Leonin Skyhunter
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4x Student of Warfare
Artifact (4)
4x AEther Vial
Land (21)
3x Cavern of Souls
2x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Horizon Canopy
4x Marsh Flats
2x Plains
4x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
3x Honor of the Pure
Instant (7)
3x Brave the Elements
4x Path to Exile
Planeswalker (1)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Disenchant
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Mark of Asylum
2x Mirran Crusader
2x Rest in Peace
2x Wrath of God
RDW
Zoo
CoCo Elves
Sejiri Steppe is a beautiful one-of with KotR.
Canopy is very fine and Cavern is as well, but with Vials and KotR, I certainly wouldn't even consider running another Cavern. Vials obviously work around counters and if you can get KotR on board, she can search out a Cavern for later. I might even drop one for something else; there are many lands one can consider as one-of's with KotR.
With Meadowgrain and Fiendslayer, you may get by just fine without Leylines.
If there's any B in your neighborhood, you might like White Shield Crusader instead of Skyhunter. The pump is pretty good but he obviously sucks if folks play Electrolyze or Forked Bolt in your neighborhood.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
So having any less than 8 of these counterspell sources for your creatures (which are your win condition) seems like you are holding back your potential, at least to me. Obviously it's expensive to run 4 Caverns, but i'm speaking in terms of using a knight deck to its fullest potential. Maybe you don't need 4 in less competitive metas?
@pzbw7z, What do you mean you may be fine without leylines with Meadowgrain and Fiendslayer? Is that in reference to Storm?
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Burn really. I don't know that I'd devote side-board cards to Storm unless I knew some of the other kids were playing it. It doesn't seem to popular these days.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
RDW
Zoo
CoCo Elves
How often have you ever thought you needed another? I've often wished a Cavern was something else and I run only three. The right amount depends on what the other kids in your neighborhood play. Honestly, most of the time I could get by without it at all. You aren't running any other colorless lands, so that's not a factor although you might consider them in the future. KotR's ability to fetch up lands makes it tempting run run single copies of things like Ghost Quarter.
It becomes more of an issue if one includes WW non-creature spells such as Light from Within, Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Leyline of Sanctity. It's also a problem with leveling Student of Warfare. I don't run anything in that first category main-deck but I've run into trouble with my Student often enough.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Seems like he would be pretty good with the Indestructible from Knight Exemplar, and the Battlecry pumps you for further attacking.
I think he is too much conditional to be good... most of our dudes are just good by themselves.
Ran him for a short while, when I tried to build the deck, back when it was in standard. I'd take a 2-damage first striker any day. We rarely attack with more than two creatures at a time, and this deck's main strength is being able to trade efficiently in creature-based matchups. I could see him in a heavy-combo meta, but otherwise I'd stick with the usual two-drops.
On another note, I dropped 2 matches to splinter-twin last FNM. What is the best sideboard choices for this matchup?
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
As for dealing with Twin, it's a tough matchup. I played a guy yesterday that was holding me off with burn, counterspells, two Spellskite and a Batterskull until he used Dig through Time and Treasure Cruise. Those two new spells are totally ridiculous, IMO. The sideboard cards I was using were Disenchant (x3), Pithing Needle (x3), Celestial Purge (x1, also stops Twin combo). For support I brought in Rest in Peace (x2) to stop Snapcaster and Delve, Kor Firewalker (x4) for life/aggression/sword targets and Mark of Asylum (x1) to stop the burn. Twin I find is one of the few matchups were you have to completely change your game to more of a control focus in order to keep up. It just functions so well as a combo deck and UR aggro-control variant.
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
However, tournament wise, it was only a 9-man queue and everyone came ready to play. I went 0-3 on the day.
Here is the deck I ran. I went with Monowhite and tried out some unique choices. Overall, they were decent.
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Grand Abolisher
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Knight Exemplar
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Riders of Gavony
4 Path to Exile
4 Brave the Elements
4 Honor the Pure
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Armored Ascension
1 Eiganjo Castle
3 Rest in Peace
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Day of Judgment
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Nevermore
Match One - Junk Pod (0-2)
Game one:
Game one I had him down to 3 life due to Mirran Crusader beats. He podded into Archangel of Thune. I just need to topdeck a Brave the Elements to win. Next turn he topdecks a Spike Feederand gains infite life. Scoop.
Game two:
I draw infite lands and get beat down by Lingering Souls tokens and Restoration Angel. Loss.
Match two - Junk Midrange (1-2)
Game one:
He Inquisitions me twice and Thoughtseizes me, then I get beat down by 2 Seige Rhinos. It's hard to win without cards to play.
Game two.
This game he brings in Timely Reinforcements to play around my Mirran Crusaders. He's at 11 life with 3 soldier tokens on the field. I brave for pro white and swing for lethal. Only win on the day.
Game three.
This game lasts forever, but I never really have control. I just withstand lots of hate cards and it takes him forever to kill me as he slowly wittles me away with soldier tokens and Vault of the Archangel.
Match three - Izzet Twin (0-2)
Game one
Grand Abolisher does a great job of annoying the hell out of him for a long time, but Treasure Cruise helps him find the bolt eventually and he combos me on turn 9. Loss.
Game three.
I hate this game. He probes me, counters everything I play, draws three cards, and kills me with a turn one Delver.
Conclusion. This deck, at least Monowhite, is not viable in a competitive meta. I will not be playing it next week. We either need to play Treasure Cruise ourselves, or rethink somethings. Obviously my deck is veryy non competitive, but after getting a taste of what the format is like, I hate Modern. I will probably try UW Quest next week and try some turn 2-3 wins. Who knows.
Well, bad things happen sometimes. You have to be used to the deck and to the meta do play good enought. A few suggestions about ur deck:
Eiganjo Castle not good, but not bad
Grand Abolisher Silverblade Paladin and Riders of Gavony are not the best creatures u can have... I think even the flying cat is better
Where are the Vials and the Cavern of Souls? It is the very basic to beat control decks
Light from Within is a must, at least 2x of it to pump ur dudes
Elspeth, Knight-Errant Hero of Bladehold Heliod, God of the Sun are good options. IMHO, bladehold is one of the best finishers.
I think is missing some good options in ur SB, white has the best arsenal for hate. Take a look on the lists over here.
Otherwise, u should splash green or go with puresteel build
1. Midrange Power Cards: I find that these have become increasingly relevant in a midrange, creature-focused deck. These could range from Swords to Elspeth, Knight-Errant, to Batterskull, and/or to Light from Within. I find Light to be an excellent niche card for this format. It feels (and often plays) like an anti-meta card - I rarely lose after one of them is successfully cast. No deck is prepared to deal with a small horde of 4/4 first strikers, not unless they're going to combo off something. I know the pain of playing 2/2 bear after 2/2 bear and seeing them get Bolted, Electrolyze'd, or burned some other way and then Snapcasted back again to generate even more card advantage to your opponent. This card turns that concept on its head.
You have the right idea with Sword of Fire and Ice, Riders of Gavony and Armored Ascension as power cards, but that's about it. Instead of running just 3 you should run more. I run 7-8 myself and find this to be just the right amount.
2. More Bolt-Proof Cards: This concept has seen some serious discussion on this thread. Hero of Bladehold, Wilt-Leaf Liege, Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers, and Brimaz are a few. All of them pass the bolt test, and sometimes you can't rely on having a Brave in hand, two HotP or a single Light in play to stop the onslaught of burn spells. It's important to render as many cards in their hand as frivolous against our creatures as possible. And other than the bolt proof creatures, a great card against UR is Harm's Way. Usually you will save your creature from getting burned and instead burn his Delver or Young Pyromancer.
Having lots of bolt-hate is a meta call, and right now Red and Blue are the dominant colours. We all need to adjust accordingly, or you will keep seeing that agonizing 2-for-1 advantage go to your opponent.
3. More Colour Protection: This is highly relevant for having good targets for your swords or any activated abilities, and I think pro-red is the strongest colour protection we can use right now. UR lists seem to be running rampant (see http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO, where UR aggro is currently at 16% of the meta, Twin is at 6%, UWx midrange is 4% and RDW is 11%). The need to protect against Lightning Bolt and its ilk is greater than ever. I would say investing in 2-3 Fiendslayer Paladin and a Mark of Asylum for your SB should be a priority.
4. Counterspell Sources: This is the other way we deal with those UR lists. Pro-red sources smack them with one hand, and "can't be countered" sources backhand them with the other. Right now it doesn't look like you have any Vials or Caverns. It's an expensive investment but it will make a world of difference in your games (see how particular your LGS is about using printed versions of cards... I once played against a guy that used a $100 bill in a card sleeve as a proxy Jace). I run 4 Caverns and 4 Vial to maximize my chances. I don't think i'll ever run anything less, unless i'm gunning for a fast aggro deck with a routine T4 win ratio (what "White Lightning" is to "Red Deck Wins). Counterspells and burn are our biggest weaknesses (next to control-combo decks), and pro red + vial/cavern is the best way to deal with it (and often completely hose your opponent).
I remember a while ago, Nabbydian mentioned that having a Vial in play can throw off your opponent and can cause them to make poor choices. Keeping a vial at 3 with a few extra lands kept in your hand may cause them to play more hesitantly. And defying their counterspells by landing creature after creature safely onto the field will sometimes cause your opponent to tap out, dumping creatures from his hand and using up his Thought Scour/Serum Visions/Gitaxian Probe (with mana). It's at this point you can safely play Light, Elspeth or a Sword (playing and equipping in one go when you're at 5 lands); this can often lead to "GG". I've only ever had ONE game where I was cheesed with a Disrupting Shoal (I think it was from a Twin deck).
5. MB/SB Changes: So in your list, I think one of my biggest surprises is not seeing Hero of Bladehold. You have all the right ingredients for her to shine, so where is she? I would drop 2 of your lands, some of your Mirran Crusader (he's amazing in a BG/BUG/Pod matchup but not many other places), your Gavony Riders (keep those for the kitchen tables, no one plays fair at Modern tourneys) and maybe your Grand Abolishers and Silverblade Paladin. It's good to have a few tech cards in with your creatures, so you may find the Abolisher deserves a slot or two (although he's less relevant as the game goes on). Hell, I may even try running him. Right now I run a single Leonin Relic-Warder to deal with the rare shenanigans that come up via Birthing Pod, Worship, Spreading Seas, Vedalken Shackles, etc. Call me crazy but I think you should run 4 Hero of Bladehold.
If Vial is not an option for you, then you should seriously consider running Suppression Field, probably even in the mainboard (instead of Vial). It's easy to build around (although you will have to switch out your Student of Warfare and any artifacts). I made a list with a human theme and ran Champion of the Parish, Thalia, BtE, HotP, etc. It worked pretty well. You can also keep Stony Silence in your side this way and devastate Affinity and Tron decks. SO MUCH of the Tier 1 modern decks rely on activated abilities, so why not hose them? Linvala, Keeper of Silence is another consideration.
WRG Naya Blitz
WR Boros Aggro
W White Lightning
Modern
W Death and Taxes
W Knights
R Red Deck Wins
RG Zoo
WG Hatebears
WG Aura Hexproof
WU Luminarch Ascension
WB Tokens
WUB Esper Control
And as water has no constant form, there are in war no constant conditions. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
For your input: The Eiganjo Castle: Since it comes into play untapped, I see no downside in not running one. If it can save my Exemplar once in a blue moon, why not.
For the real, main input. Yes, all your input is exactly as I expected. I know I am playing subpar cards where real ones should be. I will be perfectly honest when I say I have never used Vial as a player, I have only been playing since Zendikar, but they are definitely out of my price range right now, being about $80 for a set. If I can get a set, I will definitely try them. Same goes for Caverns. If I had them, I would use 2-3 of them. I'm not sure on a full set, I don't want them to hinder my ability to cast spells.
As for Hero of Bladehold. I love this card and I can definitely procure a playset. Is 4 not too much though?
I can potentially get 1-2 Elspeths. I have been wanting to try her.
I do have 2 Fiendslayer Paladins and will SB next time I play after this tournament based on my meta, but as I said, next tournament I will be taking a new deck until I can procure these new cards.
I love the input and I will definitely be tweaking my deck and giving updates as I do. I would like to get a SoFaF too. I kept thinking a set of Squadron Hawks and Swords would be wonderful in the deck as I was playing it. Has anyone tried that?