While everyone is concerned with enabling Ninjas, consider you may not need a card that is entirely unblockable. I think the 1drops you choose to put in the deck are up to preference/meta.
I'd say Triton Shorestalker is the best 1 drop for sheer enabling Ninjutsu, but consider the opposing 1-drops you'll often run into:
Zoo - Wild Nacatl / Loam Lion / Kird Ape
Pod - Mana Dork
Merfolk - Cursecatcher / Aether Vial
BGx - Thoughtseize
Delver - Delver of Secrets
None of those will actually stop a 1 drop flier. A flipped Delver perhaps, if the opponent is on the play. But they tend to want to swing every chance they get anyway.
Thoughtseize will just go after your Ninja of the Deep Hours / Anything else they consider to be the real threat. So you lose what you're enabling in the first place anyway.
Triton Shorestalker is very nice. But it's worth exploring the myriad of blue/black 1-drops with flying and possibly even intimidate.
On Distortion Strike:
Consider that this is somewhat redundant when you already have evasive creatures. Maybe it helps your ninjas get through too - but really think about putting actual removal in this slot.
Also, if you plan to use the creature that can't be blocked to bring in a ninja - that +1/+0 is something of a waste since you return the attacking creature to your hand.
For sheer evasion enabling - try Artful Dodge instead. It's better so long as you don't encounter graveyard hate (which really wouldn't be worthwhile on the opponent's part).
It doesn't give +1/+0, but flashback is more flexible than rebound for reuse. Distortion Strike's Rebound demands you use it again the following turn. It's better for a much more aggressive deck where creatures stay put on the field and don't bounce around.
You can use Artful Dodge one turn, then use it again three turns later, or the very next.
All that being said, I'd still rather run removal like Dismember to clear a path.
People tend to like Distortion Strike and Artful Dodge for strategies that involve massively powering up creatures for an explosive strike. See Kiln Fiend.
Ninjas play differently. The creatures are fairly weak overall, so they want more removal cards to help their creatures punch through.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
The idea anyways is to connect with Mistblade Shinobi after setting down Blind Obedience, at which point the game is locked until either one is removed. Their creatures come into play tapped, and get bounced next combat since they can't block Mistblade.
Thanks! I did not, but I am now! I'm going to get some copies now.
Early testing looks like I want the whole playset of Mistblade Shinobi, since he's the other half of the combo. So far I've played against Zoo (L 0-2), UW Control (W 2-0), and Pod twice (W 2-1, W 2-0). The only game I lost to pod was my first in my first match, after which I side in four copies of Hibernation. I would wait until they got everything out, play Hibernation and make them start over. Birthing Pod entering the field tapped was a huge drawback for them.
I think I should take out Sword of Light and Shadow and replace it with Sword of Feast and Famine. Maybe add Stonehewer Giant to cheat out the swords? He's no Stoneforge Mystic, and I'm afraid he's too slow for play in Modern. Although with all the bounce and counterspells I'm running, I can usually drag the game out to 7 or 8 turns.
Is the whole caw-blade side of the deck necessary? I personally don't really like swords in Modern, at least not in mainboard. I would add more control elements (counters, removal, bounce) or threats (Clique, Blade Splicer , Restoration Angel etc.) or "guaranteed" long game value (dunno what in UW, maybe Collonades are enough, maybe Ephara is worth considering).
So, I did exactly that. It's playing pretty nicely:
I could probably drop Elspeth for more counters. It feels like a win-more card right now.
Edit: I've dropped Deft Duelist from the sideboard. Too narrow for my application. I need to find an answer to all out aggro like Zoo and Affinity. They drop creatures faster than I can bounce them. I've moved Echoing Truth to the sideboard to use against tokens and added Vapor Snag in its place. That should free up more mana for Extort when Blind Obedience is in play.
I played Pod again a few minutes ago. I won pretty easily, 2-1 (I got mana flooded in game 2). Game three was a shut out. I won with 20 life and still had Hibernation in my hand.
Is the Faerie-ness of the Zephyr Sprite relevant? I really don't think it is a card good enough for modern. If I need a flying 1-drop, I would play Judge's Familiar, or maybe Owl Familiar (I know, that's two). I really don't like the Elspeth (with exception of the second ability jumping a Ninja), it has little synergy with the deck. Crazy idea...what about Tamiyo, the Moon Sage? Your opponent surely is going to have tapped stuff It may be too do-nothing for 5 though. I would also try to squeeze some in some man lands (options depend a lot on budget).
I really like the idea of a Blind Obedience ninja deck. That one card outright hoses a bunch of decks - twin, burn, pod (a bit, kiki pod a lot), affinity (a bit)...
I originally had Judge's Familiar as a one drop, but saccing an enabler can cripple a ninja deck. The very few times I did have the option to sac him to counter something, I needed him more to enable ninjutsu on my turn. I think most opponents just play around his counter ability.
Zephyr Sprite is pretty lackluster. I agree. Boosting Spellstutter Sprite is a pretty big deal. I've been thinking about Mothdust Changeling at that spot in my other UB ninja deck. It still supports Spellstutter Sprite, and can be tutored with Higure, the Still Wind. Still, I don't know if I ever would take advantage of that. I'd most likely tutor another ninja. In a Blind Obedience build, everything is tapped, so Higure's unblockable ability is less relevant, which is why I cut him.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage is interesting. A Turbo Fog deck used it to win FNM at my local shop a few months ago, beating Merfolk. I might give it a try, but it's kinda pricey for a test. I don't really have any other decks I could use it in. I mostly play MTGO, so proxy testing is not doable for me. Some ideas to replace Elspeth:
The more I look into this deck, the more impressed I am with it. I particularly like Blind Obedience being able to keep creatures tapped so that I can bounce their best stuff with Mistblade Shinobi. At the least, it should slow down every opponent's tempo, which is what ninjas desperately needs. It also hoses Splinter Twin, which more less means they get a game one loss right off the bat. Here's the list I came up with:
Lifebane Zombie seems like a really good fit for ninja decks. It has intimidate, it has a good enter the battlefield trigger. Detention Sphere is probably being overlooked as a card that's really good. There's not a lot of enchantment destruction in Modern, as it happens. So it will be good for the same reason Maelstrom Pulse is good.
It's been a while since I posted but I gutted and rebuilt my ninja deck from the bottom up, since the release of the fetch lands will help speed the whole deck up. I'm just going with what I got but compared to my last build it's way more of a speedy offensive then before concentrating on hand removal to protect my guys and of course have the evasion needed with some extra damage and some shenanigans. Mind you it just needs to be tweaked a little bit to get the card size down a bit but it actually works pretty solid, I hope this build helps some people, of course any suggestions to help even make it better or critique I would gladly welcome :).
It's been a while since I posted but I gutted and rebuilt my ninja deck from the bottom up, since the release of the fetch lands will help speed the whole deck up. I'm just going with what I got but compared to my last build it's way more of a speedy offensive then before concentrating on hand removal to protect my guys and of course have the evasion needed with some extra damage and some shenanigans. Mind you it just needs to be tweaked a little bit to get the card size down a bit but it actually works pretty solid, I hope this build helps some people, of course any suggestions to help even make it better or critique I would gladly welcome :).
Too high curve (you have a bunch of ninjas that require an attacking creature AND 4+ mana to do anything). Most of the "ninja helpers" are useless, use removal instead (read last few pages of this thread for more detailed discussion about this very topic). Faerie Impostor is much worse than Quickling (and even he isn't too great).[/quote]
I took the advice and lowered my curve greatly and swapped out the imposters since it really made a lot of sense. added in a couple cards of removal as tech as well. I wanted to focus my ninja build as crippling my opponents hand and strike quick and do most damage as possible and it looks like its looking like that :). Any other suggestions that could improve the flow of it is greatly welcomed, and again thank you for the advice thus far.
I took the advice and lowered my curve greatly and swapped out the imposters since it really made a lot of sense. added in a couple cards of removal as tech as well. I wanted to focus my ninja build as crippling my opponents hand and strike quick and do most damage as possible and it looks like its looking like that :). Any other suggestions that could improve the flow of it is greatly welcomed, and again thank you for the advice thus far.
The deck tags are a bit messed up, anyway I copied and pasted the relevant text here, I think you still need to reduce the number of cards to 60. Consistency in a deck is very important and having more than 60 cards reduces the consistency and how a deck can perform in an optimal way. A category which you can reduce from is the number of "Ninja Helpers", personally I try not to use more than 4-5 of them, because other than facilitating Ninjas in play they do every little otherwise. I won't remove them completely also because sometimes the Ninjas need a bit of extra help when they are in play.
Hello. I have been playing magic for a couple of years now and I must say the best memories are from playing ninjas. I, however, like to play casual a lot, and try to experiment with ninja decks. Here is one:
That new U/W Blind Obedience list is REALLY interesting, it actually seems stronger than the vanilla U/B one that I run. Now I actually have not tested it personally, but thats just a gut feeling
So for those who have played both versions. What do you think on U/w vs U/B?
As a quick additional side question, can Ninjutsu work with Double Strike?
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How am I an Ascended Mage? I only play tabletop casual, and I dont even know if I'm playing the game correctly
Not really, changelings work with shuriken, can be tutored by Higure (as well as Nameless Inversion), can me made unblockable by Higure, can be returned to hand by Walker of the Secret Ways, and Amoeboid can turn other creatures into changelings to be destroyed by Shado Watcher. They can also empower Secluded Glen.
As I said, It is a bit outdated. I will probably mess around with the lands and change the counter spells. Sage's dousing is nice but not for 3 mana, it is good in a wizard deck with the fish that makes wizard spells cheaper. As I said, this is a casual, not really competitive deck. But there is a ton of interaction with Higure and the Changelings... That's why I run 3.
As to the master of cruelties... As you can see, it doesn't really need to do the first attack "damage", or any damage at all, it just need to be unblocked. So as soon as the assign blocker phase starts it triggers, and you can change it to a ninja.
So I was just randomly looking at some old Extended brews and I ran across Colney Woods "Guess Who" which used Ninja of the Deep Hours to go deep with bouncing Abyssal Persecutor. It kinda seems like Percy might be a good fit here, bringing evasion and beats but still very useable with ninjitsu which can provide an uncounterable way to remove him when they are at 0 or less. Any thoughts?
So I was just randomly looking at some old Extended brews and I ran across Colney Woods "Guess Who" which used Ninja of the Deep Hours to go deep with bouncing Abyssal Persecutor. It kinda seems like Percy might be a good fit here, bringing evasion and beats but still very useable with ninjitsu which can provide an uncounterable way to remove him when they are at 0 or less. Any thoughts?
I played around with a build like that for awhile, but it never really went anywhere. He usually just got removed when he hit the table. Or he was too slow. By turn 4:
Zoo, Robots, and Fish are swarming me.
Delver is beating me in the face, and I can't spend 4 mana on Percy, knowing they are just going to counter him. Or they are threating to make crazy tokens with Young Pyro.
Midrange/Control decks will just counter or path him.
Most of the time it was too little too late. Or he was eating up an enabler spot. If I didn't top deck him, he was kinda useless.
One more thing: Why not Geist of Saint Traft? He doesn't get played as much as he should, because the meta is a bit unfriendly right now (A lot of snapcasters and Goyfs etc.), but if you can keep the board clear or tapped, he would be an amazing clock (which is something you lack right now - their creatures will untap eventually, they draw into removal and you run out of bounce. If you keep dealing 2 damage per turn, all your effort my be in vain).
GST is a very good idea. I'm thinking a Blind Obedience deck needs to be really aggresive. I'm thinking:
Somewhat like a Bear Ninja Delver mashup? I don't know. I'm personally not a huge fan of delver. He has to have the entire deck built around him, and it's starts to edge the ninjas out. I feel like I'm just brewing a janky version of a Woo brew instead of highlighting the ninja's strengths.
Looks reasonable. Is there any reason not to play Celestial Colonnade in a deck like this (other than budget)? Also, what about Pestermite? I'm not sure which creature to cut though. I'm not a fan of the Bear...what is up with that? Ninja-Bear-Delver played it because there isn't exactly abundance of blue aggressive one-drops, but white has so many better ones. Dryad Militant and Soldier of the Pantheon are the best ones. Isamaru, Hound of Konda also comes to mind as a replacement for at least one, if you really want a dumb 2/2. The Bear's illusion downside is a downside that is bound to bite you from time to time.
Yeah, I don't know why I included the bear. I guess when I think dumb 2/2, it's what comes to my mind first. It does have an upside sometimes. Lightning Helix hates blue bear. Anyways, I cut it and added 1 Isamaru, and 3 Soldier of the Pantheon.
I find that it either works REALLY well, or REALLY poorly. Either I have a ninja to bounce and get the counter effect with great benefit, or the loss in tempo from bouncing my own creatures starts to slow me down. At worst, it's a dead card in my hand when the board is empty.
A Blind Obedience tempo, ninja build has to decide whether it wants to play more on the control or the aggro side. If you're playing aggro you most likely want:
I'm not sure if those are hard numbers, but I definitely feel like Blind Obedience is more of a grindy, mid-range card that wants to eke out a win with extort. It's really good against Burn with the incremental life gain.
I think Imposing Sovereign wants to be in an aggressive shell, with its 2/1 body. It's easier to remove, but its good for 2 damage, and it can be used to activate ninjutsu; a huge plus over Blind Obedience if you want to use ninjas.
Maybe 3 and 3 is the answer, but I definitely feel like 8 copies is too much for an effect that doesn't stack. Maybe keep a couple copies in the side board to change plans for game two?
Also, I'm finding that Ninja of the Deep Hours has too many drawbacks for my aggro, delver shell. After delver flips, I don't want to ninjutsu him. What is really working nicely right now is dropping him for some more counters in Spell Pierce, and using Treasure Cruise as my draw. Finally, I think I had too many copies of Into the Roil. I don't really want to cast it until I have 4 mana available, so it can cantrip. Otherwise I'm just losing card advantage.
Do you have any experience playing this against non-creature decks like Scapeshift, Ad Nauseam or Storm? It seems you have an awful lot of blanks against those.
Honestly, I haven't played against those decks because they just aren't in my meta right now. On a typical Modern FNM my LGS sees: Tron (Sun Titan version), Pod, Splinter Twin, Infect, Fish, RDW, and a bunch of random (mostly creature based) home brews. The only creatureless deck I've seen was TurboFog (which placed first the week the guy brought it).
If, I had to play those decks, I'd imagine it'd fold like a cheap lawn chair. As of right now I don't have a contingency plan for creatureless decks, but I'm definitely open to suggestions.
I like Into the Roil because Chalice of the Void sees sideboard play in my meta and hoses Repeal. I also like Echoing Truth in that spot, and actually side out Roil for it against tokens. The others don't cantrip, which is a big deal to me in a tempo deck.
What mana do you cast Cruise for, generally? Is it really better than Snapcaster Mage?
I usually cast if for U, sometimes 1U, and rarely for more than that. Is it better than Snapcaster? "i never thought this day would come. snapcaster cut for being inefficient" - Travis Woo, commenting about his Cruise Delver deck.
It is curious, I also thought Ninja of the Deep Hours doesn't actually fit terribly well into the deck, athough I would still think about having him as a one-of or two-of.
Originally he was a four-of, then a two-of, then cut. I might bring him back, but I doubt it. He's a big removal magnet, and he sets me back in tempo. Most games he only nets me one card for 1U+(I count the creature I'm returning to my hand cost here). I can get 3 cards for the same price by casting Cruise.
Do you need that many colored lands? I think you could get away with a few more Blinkmoth Nexuses or Mutavaults.
I just recently got another copy Creeping Tar Pit for my UB builds. My wife gives me grief for spending cash for cards, so I usually try to trade. Mutavault would be great, but I can't afford it right now just for FNM giggles.
Considering you play precisely zero ETB effects, wouldn't Hushwing Gryff be a good fit?
You just found my new favorite sideboard card for Twin. I forgot they printed Torpor Orb with a body. I haven't tried it maindeck. I'll definitely do that.
I'm still not sure if Vial is suitable here. Has the meta slowed down enough for us to Vial effectively? I'm thinking it's too late for us to utilize the ETB abilities of the creatures we are using with Vial here, such as Spellstutter Sprite and Augury Owl. Off a first turn Vial we probably need 3 or 4 turns to see them make any impact and even longer for Augury Owl since it's a scry effect.
Actually Vial is good because you can do this off the start:
Turn 1 - Land, Vial,
Turn 2 - Land, on opponent's turn zephyr sprite through vial, cast spell stutter for counter.
Of course it's a 3 card combo and you can as well use a leak or even better a snare, but the stutters can be bounced with ninjas and you have two flyers at turn 2 that can attack immediately.
I play on bouncing my creatures a lot so with a vial charged at two I have a lot of counters activating mutavault and playing zephyrs and other spell stutters. Augury Owl is mostly for ninjas and scrying.
Oh and of course once you have vial charged at two you can bounce your creatures with familiar's ruse and ninjas in order to have stutters and play them with it.
Vial with 2 counters with Spellstutter Sprite and Familiar's Ruse is a very sick play, at times it is even enough to make players concede. Also, I think playing 4 Aether Vial is better, since the deck can really move off with a first turn vial, playing a playset of Vial will increase the chances of getting Vial in the opening hand.
Vial with 2 counters with Spellstutter Sprite and Familiar's Ruse is a very sick play, at times it is even enough to make players concede. Also, I think playing 4 Aether Vial is better, since the deck can really move off with a first turn vial, playing a playset of Vial will increase the chances of getting Vial in the opening hand.
I thought about it, but i wouldn't know what to cut out for the 4th Vial.
It's always tough trying to streamline the deck, I'll probably look at Spreading Seas or Imposing Sovereign, 3 Spreading Seas should be enough considering there are cantrip effects in the deck to dig through the deck faster for more seas, I tend to think Imposing Sovereign doesn't really do as much, here's also Blind Obedience to slow down all those haste decks.
I'm more keen on cutting a Spreading Seas over a sovereign because I'd rather have four tapping effects with the two Blind Obedience. Imposing Sovereign is also a 2/1 that can attack and, if you're really into trouble, chump block.
I agreed mostly on dropping Spreading Seas, besides with Aether Vial it always pay to have more creatures in the deck.
Hey guys, This is Kennen! It has been a while but I have been working on trying to make a UW ninja deck for a while and decided I would look here for some ideas and wow you guys are talking and brainstorming on exactly what I came here looking for!
I scrapped my old deck and built a quick version of the deck using some ideas you guys have given me. Tell me what you think.
I decided to splash in some R for the off chance I decide to go with more spells which would give me access to Lightening Bolt and Electrolyze. Removal is always a good thing and with Snapcaster giving us the ability to recast either of these spells, I figured, why not. Lightning Helix gives me some sustain and removal.
I went with 1 Higure because I really want to play test him in this deck. I feel like his slowness, But versatility, gives me an edge with my Mistblade. Some play testing will need to be done obviously.
My next big issue here is the mana base. Really not sure what I should do here. I feel like what I have here is solid. But again, needs some play testing.
Quite confident with my sideboard on this one. Ghostly prison can stop some combo and can stop one of, if not the biggest, problems for this deck, Aggro.
Also, I threw Ephara in here because with the total amount of creatures and the ability to flash in snapcaster or vendilion, I felt like this would be a solid play and give us the card draw we need. Its low cost and ability give it minimal downside with the exception of my splashed red.
I took the advice and lowered my curve greatly and swapped out the imposters since it really made a lot of sense. added in a couple cards of removal as tech as well. I wanted to focus my ninja build as crippling my opponents hand and strike quick and do most damage as possible and it looks like its looking like that :). Any other suggestions that could improve the flow of it is greatly welcomed, and again thank you for the advice thus far.
The deck tags are a bit messed up, anyway I copied and pasted the relevant text here, I think you still need to reduce the number of cards to 60. Consistency in a deck is very important and having more than 60 cards reduces the consistency and how a deck can perform in an optimal way. A category which you can reduce from is the number of "Ninja Helpers", personally I try not to use more than 4-5 of them, because other than facilitating Ninjas in play they do every little otherwise. I won't remove them completely also because sometimes the Ninjas need a bit of extra help when they are in play.
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I took your advice and switched things around finally coming out with this build:
It seems a lot more solid and quicker now especially adding in the Aqueous Form for not only continuing to make my ninjas un-blockable but that added scry will def come in handy for card advantage. Keeping one artful dodge will allow me to use it in a dire situation if i need to get through for some final damage. These ninja helpers are a lot more efficient for modern then what I had I just wish I thought about them before hand. My other reason to go with this layout of helpers was to lower the mana curve which also speeds the deck up greatly keeping my mana open to cast y ninjas and quickly swarm the field when I can.
While everyone is concerned with enabling Ninjas, consider you may not need a card that is entirely unblockable. I think the 1drops you choose to put in the deck are up to preference/meta.
I'd say Triton Shorestalker is the best 1 drop for sheer enabling Ninjutsu, but consider the opposing 1-drops you'll often run into:
Zoo - Wild Nacatl / Loam Lion / Kird Ape
Pod - Mana Dork
Merfolk - Cursecatcher / Aether Vial
BGx - Thoughtseize
Delver - Delver of Secrets
None of those will actually stop a 1 drop flier. A flipped Delver perhaps, if the opponent is on the play. But they tend to want to swing every chance they get anyway.
Thoughtseize will just go after your Ninja of the Deep Hours / Anything else they consider to be the real threat. So you lose what you're enabling in the first place anyway.
Triton Shorestalker is very nice. But it's worth exploring the myriad of blue/black 1-drops with flying and possibly even intimidate.
On Distortion Strike:
Consider that this is somewhat redundant when you already have evasive creatures. Maybe it helps your ninjas get through too - but really think about putting actual removal in this slot.
Also, if you plan to use the creature that can't be blocked to bring in a ninja - that +1/+0 is something of a waste since you return the attacking creature to your hand.
For sheer evasion enabling - try Artful Dodge instead. It's better so long as you don't encounter graveyard hate (which really wouldn't be worthwhile on the opponent's part).
It doesn't give +1/+0, but flashback is more flexible than rebound for reuse. Distortion Strike's Rebound demands you use it again the following turn. It's better for a much more aggressive deck where creatures stay put on the field and don't bounce around.
You can use Artful Dodge one turn, then use it again three turns later, or the very next.
All that being said, I'd still rather run removal like Dismember to clear a path.
People tend to like Distortion Strike and Artful Dodge for strategies that involve massively powering up creatures for an explosive strike. See Kiln Fiend.
Ninjas play differently. The creatures are fairly weak overall, so they want more removal cards to help their creatures punch through.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
The idea anyways is to connect with Mistblade Shinobi after setting down Blind Obedience, at which point the game is locked until either one is removed. Their creatures come into play tapped, and get bounced next combat since they can't block Mistblade.
Playing Squadron Hawk with the swords kinda feels like Caw-Blade if I can't draw Blind Obedience.
I've also got two copies of Elspeth, Knight-Errant to help ninjas already on the board connect with extra damage.
I haven't tested it much yet, so I was wondering if anybody else had gone this route and had some suggestions.
Edit: With Disenchant and Hibernation in the sideboard, this deck puts it all over pod.
Thanks! I did not, but I am now! I'm going to get some copies now.
Early testing looks like I want the whole playset of Mistblade Shinobi, since he's the other half of the combo. So far I've played against Zoo (L 0-2), UW Control (W 2-0), and Pod twice (W 2-1, W 2-0). The only game I lost to pod was my first in my first match, after which I side in four copies of Hibernation. I would wait until they got everything out, play Hibernation and make them start over. Birthing Pod entering the field tapped was a huge drawback for them.
I think I should take out Sword of Light and Shadow and replace it with Sword of Feast and Famine. Maybe add Stonehewer Giant to cheat out the swords? He's no Stoneforge Mystic, and I'm afraid he's too slow for play in Modern. Although with all the bounce and counterspells I'm running, I can usually drag the game out to 7 or 8 turns.
So, I did exactly that. It's playing pretty nicely:
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Zephyr Sprite
4 Imposing Sovereign
1 Restoration Angel
2 Blade Splicer
Ninjas:
4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
Spells:
4 Blind Obedience
3 Vapor Snag
3 Into the Roil
3 Remand
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Glacial Fortress
7 Island
3 Plains
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Disenchant
4 Echoing Truth
4 Hibernation
3 Mana Leak
I could probably drop Elspeth for more counters. It feels like a win-more card right now.
Edit: I've dropped Deft Duelist from the sideboard. Too narrow for my application. I need to find an answer to all out aggro like Zoo and Affinity. They drop creatures faster than I can bounce them. I've moved Echoing Truth to the sideboard to use against tokens and added Vapor Snag in its place. That should free up more mana for Extort when Blind Obedience is in play.
I played Pod again a few minutes ago. I won pretty easily, 2-1 (I got mana flooded in game 2). Game three was a shut out. I won with 20 life and still had Hibernation in my hand.
I originally had Judge's Familiar as a one drop, but saccing an enabler can cripple a ninja deck. The very few times I did have the option to sac him to counter something, I needed him more to enable ninjutsu on my turn. I think most opponents just play around his counter ability.
Zephyr Sprite is pretty lackluster. I agree. Boosting Spellstutter Sprite is a pretty big deal. I've been thinking about Mothdust Changeling at that spot in my other UB ninja deck. It still supports Spellstutter Sprite, and can be tutored with Higure, the Still Wind. Still, I don't know if I ever would take advantage of that. I'd most likely tutor another ninja. In a Blind Obedience build, everything is tapped, so Higure's unblockable ability is less relevant, which is why I cut him.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage is interesting. A Turbo Fog deck used it to win FNM at my local shop a few months ago, beating Merfolk. I might give it a try, but it's kinda pricey for a test. I don't really have any other decks I could use it in. I mostly play MTGO, so proxy testing is not doable for me. Some ideas to replace Elspeth:
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner?
Rule of Law?
Venser, Shaper Savant more bounce and counters!
Gideon Jura kinda slow, but he kills tapped creatures. I originally wanted to splash black to play Royal Assassin and Throat Slitter, but three color mana bases are hard to get perfect.
Kaho, Minamo Historian an Isochron Scepter that fetches his own spells and can use them to bounce himself if he's going to be removed!
Loxodon Gatekeeper Blind Obedience copies 9 and 10? I think I'm good lol.
Spellskite does it all!
Ajani, Caller of the Pride Mistblade Shinobi with double strike could be fun.
Snapcaster Mage can you even build a blue deck in Modern that's not Fish without this guy?
Of those Venser, Kaho, Snapcaster, and Spellskite are probably my favorite candidates.
4 Blind Obedience
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Drowned Catacomb
3 Familiar's Ruse
1 Glacial Fortress
3 Godless Shrine
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Higure, the Still Wind
2 Imposing Sovereign
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Island
4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Polluted Delta
3 Seachrome Coast
1 Swamp
2 Remand
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Tormented Soul
4 Triton Shorestalker
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Watery Grave
2x Exhaustion
3x Extirpate
3x Jotun Grunt
3x Lifebane Zombie
2x Negate
Lifebane Zombie seems like a really good fit for ninja decks. It has intimidate, it has a good enter the battlefield trigger. Detention Sphere is probably being overlooked as a card that's really good. There's not a lot of enchantment destruction in Modern, as it happens. So it will be good for the same reason Maelstrom Pulse is good.
2x Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
2x Higure, the Still Wind
2x Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1x Throat Slitter
4x Ninja of the Deep Hours
4x Mistblade Shinobi
Ninja Enablers:
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Oona's Prowler
2x Faerie Impostor
4x Ornithopter
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Ninja Helpers:
2x Shimmering Wings
2x Spectral Flight
3x Artful Dodge
2x Neko-Te
1x Quietus Spike
1x Ghostfire Blade
Mana:
2x Polluted Delta
1x Minamo,School at water's Edge
1x Swarmyard
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3x Watery Grave
2x Darkslick Shores
3x Drowned Catacomb
4x Swamp
4x Island
Too high curve (you have a bunch of ninjas that require an attacking creature AND 4+ mana to do anything). Most of the "ninja helpers" are useless, use removal instead (read last few pages of this thread for more detailed discussion about this very topic). Faerie Impostor is much worse than Quickling (and even he isn't too great).[/quote]
I took the advice and lowered my curve greatly and swapped out the imposters since it really made a lot of sense. added in a couple cards of removal as tech as well. I wanted to focus my ninja build as crippling my opponents hand and strike quick and do most damage as possible and it looks like its looking like that :). Any other suggestions that could improve the flow of it is greatly welcomed, and again thank you for the advice thus far.
2x Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
2x Higure, the Still Wind
1x Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1x Throat Slitter
4x Ninja of the Deep Hours
3x Mistblade Shinobi
Ninja Enablers:
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Oona's Prowler
3x Hypnotic Siren
3x Ornithopter
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Removal:
3x Go for the throat
Ninja Helpers:
2x Shimmering Wings
2x Spectral Flight
2x Artful Dodge
1x Quietus Spike
1x Ghostfire Blade
Mana:
2x Polluted Delta
1x Minamo,School at water's Edge
1x Swarmyard
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3x Watery Grave
2x Darkslick Shores
3x Drowned Catacomb
4x Swamp
4x Island
The deck tags are a bit messed up, anyway I copied and pasted the relevant text here, I think you still need to reduce the number of cards to 60. Consistency in a deck is very important and having more than 60 cards reduces the consistency and how a deck can perform in an optimal way. A category which you can reduce from is the number of "Ninja Helpers", personally I try not to use more than 4-5 of them, because other than facilitating Ninjas in play they do every little otherwise. I won't remove them completely also because sometimes the Ninjas need a bit of extra help when they are in play.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Ninjas:
3 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
3 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
2 Throat Slitter
2 Walker of the Secret Ways
Other Creatures:
3 Amoeboid Changeling
4 Mothdust Changeling
4 Nezumi Shadow-Watcher
3 Shapesharer
3 Shuriken
3 Nameless Inversion
3 Sage's Dousing
Lands:
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Watery Grave
4 Secluded Glen
6 Island
1 Swamp
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
It is really outdated, but I think it has potential at least. Any comments?
That new U/W Blind Obedience list is REALLY interesting, it actually seems stronger than the vanilla U/B one that I run. Now I actually have not tested it personally, but thats just a gut feeling
So for those who have played both versions. What do you think on U/w vs U/B?
As a quick additional side question, can Ninjutsu work with Double Strike?
How am I an Ascended Mage? I only play tabletop casual, and I dont even know if I'm playing the game correctly
Modern
GStompyG/UBNinjasUB
Legacy
UPhasenoughtU
EDH
RNorin the WaryR
UBRThraximundarUBR
As I said, It is a bit outdated. I will probably mess around with the lands and change the counter spells. Sage's dousing is nice but not for 3 mana, it is good in a wizard deck with the fish that makes wizard spells cheaper. As I said, this is a casual, not really competitive deck. But there is a ton of interaction with Higure and the Changelings... That's why I run 3.
As to the master of cruelties... As you can see, it doesn't really need to do the first attack "damage", or any damage at all, it just need to be unblocked. So as soon as the assign blocker phase starts it triggers, and you can change it to a ninja.
I played around with a build like that for awhile, but it never really went anywhere. He usually just got removed when he hit the table. Or he was too slow. By turn 4:
Zoo, Robots, and Fish are swarming me.
Delver is beating me in the face, and I can't spend 4 mana on Percy, knowing they are just going to counter him. Or they are threating to make crazy tokens with Young Pyro.
Midrange/Control decks will just counter or path him.
Most of the time it was too little too late. Or he was eating up an enabler spot. If I didn't top deck him, he was kinda useless.
GST is a very good idea. I'm thinking a Blind Obedience deck needs to be really aggresive. I'm thinking:
Phantasmal Bear
Delver of Secrets
Ninjas
Geist of Saint Traft
Somewhat like a Bear Ninja Delver mashup? I don't know. I'm personally not a huge fan of delver. He has to have the entire deck built around him, and it's starts to edge the ninjas out. I feel like I'm just brewing a janky version of a Woo brew instead of highlighting the ninja's strengths.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Imposing Sovereign
4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Vapor Snag
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
4 Blind Obedience
4 Into the Roil
4 Glacial Fortress
5 Island
2 Plains
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
I'll see about slotting Geist of Saint Traft into the deck when I get the bankroll to do so. Not much to report yet.
Yeah, I don't know why I included the bear. I guess when I think dumb 2/2, it's what comes to my mind first. It does have an upside sometimes. Lightning Helix hates blue bear. Anyways, I cut it and added 1 Isamaru, and 3 Soldier of the Pantheon.
What's the general consensus on Familiar's Ruse?
I find that it either works REALLY well, or REALLY poorly. Either I have a ninja to bounce and get the counter effect with great benefit, or the loss in tempo from bouncing my own creatures starts to slow me down. At worst, it's a dead card in my hand when the board is empty.
A Blind Obedience tempo, ninja build has to decide whether it wants to play more on the control or the aggro side. If you're playing aggro you most likely want:
4 Imposing Sovereign
2 Blind Obedience
If you're playing more towards the control/mid-range side you'll most likely want:
2 Imposing Sovereign
4 Blind Obedience
I'm not sure if those are hard numbers, but I definitely feel like Blind Obedience is more of a grindy, mid-range card that wants to eke out a win with extort. It's really good against Burn with the incremental life gain.
I think Imposing Sovereign wants to be in an aggressive shell, with its 2/1 body. It's easier to remove, but its good for 2 damage, and it can be used to activate ninjutsu; a huge plus over Blind Obedience if you want to use ninjas.
Maybe 3 and 3 is the answer, but I definitely feel like 8 copies is too much for an effect that doesn't stack. Maybe keep a couple copies in the side board to change plans for game two?
Also, I'm finding that Ninja of the Deep Hours has too many drawbacks for my aggro, delver shell. After delver flips, I don't want to ninjutsu him. What is really working nicely right now is dropping him for some more counters in Spell Pierce, and using Treasure Cruise as my draw. Finally, I think I had too many copies of Into the Roil. I don't really want to cast it until I have 4 mana available, so it can cantrip. Otherwise I'm just losing card advantage.
So right now my deck looks like this:
3 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Imposing Sovereign
4 Mistblade Shinobi
4 Vapor Snag
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
4 Remand
3 Mana leak
2 Blind Obedience
2 Into the Roil
3 Treasure Cruise
5 Island
2 Plains
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
Celestial Colonnade will help, but it still feels clunky to me.
Honestly, I haven't played against those decks because they just aren't in my meta right now. On a typical Modern FNM my LGS sees: Tron (Sun Titan version), Pod, Splinter Twin, Infect, Fish, RDW, and a bunch of random (mostly creature based) home brews. The only creatureless deck I've seen was TurboFog (which placed first the week the guy brought it).
If, I had to play those decks, I'd imagine it'd fold like a cheap lawn chair. As of right now I don't have a contingency plan for creatureless decks, but I'm definitely open to suggestions.
I like Into the Roil because Chalice of the Void sees sideboard play in my meta and hoses Repeal. I also like Echoing Truth in that spot, and actually side out Roil for it against tokens. The others don't cantrip, which is a big deal to me in a tempo deck.
I usually cast if for U, sometimes 1U, and rarely for more than that. Is it better than Snapcaster? "i never thought this day would come. snapcaster cut for being inefficient" - Travis Woo, commenting about his Cruise Delver deck.
Originally he was a four-of, then a two-of, then cut. I might bring him back, but I doubt it. He's a big removal magnet, and he sets me back in tempo. Most games he only nets me one card for 1U+(I count the creature I'm returning to my hand cost here). I can get 3 cards for the same price by casting Cruise.
I just recently got another copy Creeping Tar Pit for my UB builds. My wife gives me grief for spending cash for cards, so I usually try to trade. Mutavault would be great, but I can't afford it right now just for FNM giggles.
You just found my new favorite sideboard card for Twin. I forgot they printed Torpor Orb with a body. I haven't tried it maindeck. I'll definitely do that.
Yes, but nothing definite yet. Hushwing Gryff just got slotted in here.
I hope to see that decklist soon.
Speaking of saving money to keep your
ball and chainsignificant other off your back:You can make a pretty good UB version of Ninja Bear Delver by replacing Snapcaster Mage with Toshiro Umezawa.
3 Underground River
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Toshiro Umezawa
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Tragic Slip
2 Go for the Throat
2 Smother
3 Mana Leak
4 Vapor Snag
3 Geth's Verdict
4 Remand
2 Treasure Cruise
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I agreed mostly on dropping Spreading Seas, besides with Aether Vial it always pay to have more creatures in the deck.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
[Deck/Primer] Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Darth Knights in Legacy
[Deck] Casual Knights in Legacy
[Deck/Primer] Modern Knights
[Deck/Primer] Modern Ninjas
LEGACY
Legacy Knights Variants WG,WU,WR,WB,W,B
Soldiers Stompy W
NinjaStill UB
FOWless Merfolk UW
Aggro Elves G
MODERN
Modern Knights Variants WG,BR
Modern Ninjas Variants UB,UG,UW,UWR
Modern Kithkins WR,W
I scrapped my old deck and built a quick version of the deck using some ideas you guys have given me. Tell me what you think.
4 Mistblade Shinobi
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Imposing Sovereign
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Higure, the Still Wind
1 Ephara, God of the Polis
Spells
4 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Path to Exile
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Lightning Helix
2 Blind Obedience
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Sacred Foundery
1 Steam Vents
1 Plains
1 Mountain
5 Island
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Spellskite
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Stony Silence
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Batterskull
1 Lightening Helix
I decided to splash in some R for the off chance I decide to go with more spells which would give me access to Lightening Bolt and Electrolyze. Removal is always a good thing and with Snapcaster giving us the ability to recast either of these spells, I figured, why not. Lightning Helix gives me some sustain and removal.
I went with 1 Higure because I really want to play test him in this deck. I feel like his slowness, But versatility, gives me an edge with my Mistblade. Some play testing will need to be done obviously.
My next big issue here is the mana base. Really not sure what I should do here. I feel like what I have here is solid. But again, needs some play testing.
Quite confident with my sideboard on this one. Ghostly prison can stop some combo and can stop one of, if not the biggest, problems for this deck, Aggro.
Also, I threw Ephara in here because with the total amount of creatures and the ability to flash in snapcaster or vendilion, I felt like this would be a solid play and give us the card draw we need. Its low cost and ability give it minimal downside with the exception of my splashed red.
So, Tell me what you think guys!
I took your advice and switched things around finally coming out with this build:
2x Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
2x Higure, the Still Wind
1x Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1x Throat Slitter
4x Ninja of the Deep Hours
3x Mistblade Shinobi
Ninja Enablers:
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Oona's Prowler
3x Hypnotic Siren
3x Ornithopter
4x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Removal:
3x Go for the throat
Ninja Helpers:
4x Aqueous Form
1x Artful dodge
1x Ghostfire Blade
Mana:
2x Polluted Delta
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Swarmyard
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
3x Watery Grave
2x Darkslick Shores
3x Drowned Catacomb
4x Swamp
4x Island
It seems a lot more solid and quicker now especially adding in the Aqueous Form for not only continuing to make my ninjas un-blockable but that added scry will def come in handy for card advantage. Keeping one artful dodge will allow me to use it in a dire situation if i need to get through for some final damage. These ninja helpers are a lot more efficient for modern then what I had I just wish I thought about them before hand. My other reason to go with this layout of helpers was to lower the mana curve which also speeds the deck up greatly keeping my mana open to cast y ninjas and quickly swarm the field when I can.