@pat: Why did you post an aggro deck in a Control Thread? We had this discussion 5 pages ago.
@Pierce: Oriss is horrible with no way to return the discarded ones to hand. If you want to go with the Oriss lock, run 4 Oriss and 4 Sword of Light and Shadow. But I think that's a different deck.
Tumble Magnet works well against artifact lands and Eldrazi to at least slow them down. It also works in most decks since its inexpensive and works against a number of threats. If you run Tectonic Edge then Surgical Extraction can be useful against their lands. So far I haven't seen many decks running more then singleton Eldrazi.
If your Black/White and can last long enough to cast it, Sadistic Sacrament rapes 12post. Bye Ulamog, bye Emrakul, bye kozilek...what nothing left?
P.S. - Sorry for the double post.
Tumble Magnet would be awesome in the U/W deck that uses Venser for reusability. Might have to try it. I don't think SS would be good in BW cause you have to get 3 of your 4 Godless Shrines in play and playing anything that is not a plains/fetchland/emeria/tectonic is bad juju I think.
So after losing to that damn Restore Balance deck a couple times last night it got me thinking... Chalice of the Void? It shuts down Pacts against Hive Mind, as well as Living End and Restore Balance... Any thoughts on 2-3 of these in the board?
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ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
I was reading all this and came to the impression that you are in love with certain cards and interactions and your correct judgement about the cards that you should really use is poor at least.
So after losing to that damn Restore Balance deck a couple times last night it got me thinking... Chalice of the Void? It shuts down Pacts against Hive Mind, as well as Living End and Restore Balance... Any thoughts on 2-3 of these in the board?
Chalice of the void at 0 does not shut down packs in hive mind. Thier pact gets countered, yes, but your copy is put directly on the stack and therefore is not. you still lose on your upkeep if you do not pay for it.
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Decks I Play EDH RStarke of Rath chaosR UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW Legacy WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW XMUDX
Chalice of the void at 0 does not shut down packs in hive mind. Thier pact gets countered, yes, but your copy is put directly on the stack and therefore is not. you still lose on your upkeep if you do not pay for it.
Well... there's Living End and Restore Balance, although I guess Etherswon Canonist and Rule of Law do the same thing.
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ISD Block UR - Burning Vengeance BG - The Rock RUG - RUG Control BBB - Zombies
I'm really interested in this deck. It seems like it would crush aggro, but have a tough time with 12post and (non-Dragonstorm) combo. How does this deck beat those? It seems like Ethersworn Canonist would help - is it maindeckable? Also, I could definitely see a red splash for Lightning Helix and Ajani Vengeant, or a blue splash for Meddling Mage and countermagic.
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Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Chalice of the Void is a strong card out of the sb.
@0 you stop: Restore Balance/Living End
@1 you stop: Kird Ape/Wild Nacatl/Goblin Guide/PtE/Rites of Flames
@2 you stop: Teeg/Pridemage/Desperate Ritual/Tarmogoyf
@3 you stop: KotR/Seething Song
It can be used in all matchups except 12post.
Canonist vs Rule of Law: Less enchantment hate is played vice Artifact/Creature hate. Canonist doesn't stop Affinity (Rule of Law is too slow for Affinity). Canonist can be dropped a turn faster. It all depends on what you want.
Quote from TROLL »
I was reading all this and came to the impression that you are in love with certain cards and interactions and your correct judgement about the cards that you should really use is poor at least.
Those are old extended decks that can be improved with the more extensive card pool of Modern.
Gotta love trolls. It's not obvious that someone who's ideas were disregarded in this thread created an account just to post on here. The 1 post gives it away dude!
However, for educational and reinteration purposes:
The deck DOES NOT need PoR. If you are running the 1CC defense, then yes, the deck needs it. But why on earth would a I run a (relatively) 7CC Instant (that I have to play during my upkeep) to bring back 1 of my 4 Martyrs? Why would I do that when by the time I get to 8 mana (cuz I'm not gonig to Rebirth without mana open) when Emeria does it for free at the same point in the game? Ghostly Prison is the lock that binds this deck together. Without it, you would be run over by Zoo before you can stabalize. This is a MUST 4 in the deck. Whoever's alter ego this is, GO TROLL SOMEWHERE ELSE!
@Pierce: I'll add Luminarch in the win conditions. I don't play it cause it's easily a distraction on your overall game plan. Trying to protect it will result in you wasting more resources then waiting until a sweeper and seal the game for you. Try it out though. I do not think it's better than Sacred Mesa. Maybe a 3 of in the sb for the control matchups so you can drop it T2 and use that for your win condition. I have Condemn md for those emergency answers that sorcery speed removal can't answer. It's a play preference for that (except I do say that in this deck Condemn is better than PtE). I use WoO for the big butt and the card draw. The card draw has saved me more than gaining 2-3 life from blocking would have. Remember white does not have card draw, so we have to squeeze in as much as possible. Try out the walls and let us know. Thanks for the critical feedback on the Primer, as it still has a big portion left to finish.
Have you considered Mimic Vat? Seems to play very well with Martyr of Sands.
While it has cute interactions, I see it as a deterrent away from the current plan. Remember, the only creatures of opponents we put in the g/y is from sweepers. While is has cuteness with WoO, MoS, Sadbot, and Titan, I just don't play it. Try it out and see if it helps the overall matchups.
I'm no Troll man, just can't remember my account and password. I've been playing with this deck since coldsnap in every incarnation of it.
I played it with sacred mesa for a while in the french Wu version of it. It was too slow. I discovered that there are some other things i want to do with my mana in the later turns, like optimizing the life engine.
There is no Correct approach to this deck, but there are some better tuned up ones.
You play one game, gain life fast. They will have to commit to the board to try to kill you, you wrath them and repeat.
Proclamation of rebirth is not a card tath you need to play always for the convoke cost, sometimes you just cast it after wrath of god to bring 1 or 2 martyrs and gain more life. Proclamation then turns in a kami of false hope recursion engine.
Another thing, condemn is not good in this deck. Elves is a nearly impossible match for it, so you need to be able to hit them anytime, not just when they attack for the win. Crovax, Ascendant Hero is a good card overall and a decent finisher.
There are versions of this deck with 4 paths and 4 lightning helix main. to fight zoo and elves. Every zoo list has quasali pridemages maindeck, it's unreal to think that ghostly prison is even a good card. They can't stop you from gaining 20 or 30 life a game, so that's the best part of the deck and should be your main goal.
Consider what i'm saying not because Who I am, troll, noob, whatever. Consider the cards and the advices from pro players (not me) and test them Before you discard the ideas and call me a troll.
Have Fun.
Have you even played with Ghostly Prison? It is an awesome card that results in your opponent (again repeating myself for the troll)
1. Slow down their approach on casting creatures. Winning situation. It's called tempo.
2. Slow down on the attacking to get a better board. Winning.
You sir, need to troll elsewhere and keep your "2 posts" elsewhere. The deck destroys all aggro. I don' need to listen to the preaching about a deck that was relevant 3 years ago CAUSE Emeria wasn't printed yet. Guaranteed if Emeria was in that T2 era, PoR would not have seen play.
Problem with BC is that if they destroy it, you are 4-5 cards. Not so good. Now you can run EB w/ Prison. I'm going to start running a miser copy in sb
I whould say that the person you called troll has some good points
The base that he sugested was fine and should be at least tested
I would think about splash to red and black for disrupts and ajani
And Would Also run Squadron Hawk, Swords, Titan, Tectonic Edge, Ajani Vengeant and Proclamation
Emeria Seems to slow for a format with edges, Quarters
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I whould say that the person you called troll has some good points
The base that he sugested was fine and should be at least tested
I would think about splash to red and black for disrupts and ajani
And Would Also run Squadron Hawk, Swords, Titan, Tectonic Edge, Ajani Vengeant and Proclamation
Emeria Seems to slow for a format with edges, Quarters
ROFLMAO...nice 1 post.
No it shouldn't. Proclamation is only good if you build the 1CC build filled with Martyr, Kami, Mogg Fanatic(if you go r/w).
I have no problem getting Emeria online. It's not meant to get online T1-5. Those turns are for early control and board building (i.e. Wall of Omens, Ghostly Prison). I'm not filling the deck with Swords and Hawks, Why wouldn't I play CAW-Blade then? Seriously, go troll somewhere else dude.
Quote from Numotflame96 »
so why does it seem like squadron hawk is left out of the primer? i've been playing around with this for a bit and the hawk + mistveil plains engine is hugely powerful giving you fuel for both martyr and an infinite supply of chump blockers.
I really wouldn't call Hawk+Plains a powerful engine. To recur a 1/1 flyer. While it's cute and I could use it as a 1 of in the deck. If I put 4 Hawks in there, then I will want to put Swords in. If I put Swords in, why would I play WoO....next thing I know I'm playing CAW-Blade.
There's a small amount on the black splash. I would never play Arena. Anything w/ double splash color is not good. Remember you are only playing 4 shocklands of your fetched color. Castigate is nice, I think I would rather play Sculler. Cause I can get Sculler back later if needed.
I just think that if you use hawks its like 9+ llife with martyr here u also improve you chances of getting martyrs since hawk gives you 3 cards
I will run Hawks and Survival cache-Castigate and mortify or helix and vengeant
Not many decks use a lot of basics if u recur edges and quarters with titan u get a nice board control and also get recursion for sculler and other nice 3 cc stuff
sit down with prison with so many quasalis on the other side does not seem very good
aggros in general is a really good match against anyy formation of this deck
if you use castigate -sculer-edges-quarter u can get a better position against 12 post and other control match ups
Since Hawks-martyrs cache are not imeadiate problems the control will let u resolve then then u get your sword and bash their face
Serious man we are not troll just trying to give you a diiferent aproach for the deck
I just think that if you use hawks its like 9+ llife with martyr here u also improve you chances of getting martyrs since hawk gives you 3 cards
I will run Hawks and Survival cache-Castigate and mortify or helix and vengeant
Not many decks use a lot of basics if u recur edges and quarters with titan u get a nice board control and also get recursion for sculler and other nice 3 cc stuff
sit down with prison with so many quasalis on the other side does not seem very good
aggros in general is a really good match against anyy formation of this deck
if you use castigate -sculer-edges-quarter u can get a better position against 12 post and other control match ups
Since Hawks-martyrs cache are not imeadiate problems the control will let u resolve then then u get your sword and bash their face
Serious man we are not troll just trying to give you a diiferent aproach for the deck
The reason I'm calling you a troll and the "other guy" is you have no posts outside of this thread and you just joined in the last few days. Obviously a fake account just to post the same information.
1. You are diluting your deck. Martyr is not for a reusable effect. It's an early game life spike to help you stabilize. If you want to build a Martyr deck, go for it.
2. That sounds like a horrible deck. 3 colors? That's not even MWC.
3. If you douse your mana base with 2 lands made for sac'ing, you will never get to 7 plains. Your m/u w/ 12 post will be better, somewhat. But you will lose to alot of other decks.
4. I've lost a whopping total of 3 or 4 games cause of a Qasali/Krosan Grip pointed at my Prison. This deck runs alot of enchantments that cause issues for an opposing Zoo player.
5. First off, any good control player will do their best not to let a Hawk resolve. They know it's a 4 for 1 card advantage. Again, this is not the route of a control deck (except CAW-Blade).
MWC utilizes taxing effects to stabalize a board position until it sweeps and then takes control via recurring beaters via Emeria or making 4-5 1/1 flying tokens.
2 Pentarch Paladin
3 Spirit en-Dal
4 Soltari Priest
4 Augur il-Vec
3 Zealot il-Vec
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Honor of the Pure
2 Leyline of the Sanctity
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Ajani Goldmane
3 Wrath of God
i knwo it needs some editing and tweaking but i love the shadow concept
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@Pierce: Oriss is horrible with no way to return the discarded ones to hand. If you want to go with the Oriss lock, run 4 Oriss and 4 Sword of Light and Shadow. But I think that's a different deck.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Tumble Magnet would be awesome in the U/W deck that uses Venser for reusability. Might have to try it. I don't think SS would be good in BW cause you have to get 3 of your 4 Godless Shrines in play and playing anything that is not a plains/fetchland/emeria/tectonic is bad juju I think.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Currently Playing
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Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
2 Riftmark Knight
2 Pentarch Paladin
3 Spirit en-Dal
4 Soltari Priest
4 Augur il-Vec
3 Zealot il-Vec
How is 1/3 your deck not defined as aggro? Once again, just cause you play Wrath of God does not make your deck a control deck.
Anyway, on topic:
Primer is on the start, check it out guys
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
This deck needs proclamation of rebirth
This deck even needs Ranger of eos to keep fetching your other martyrs.
Ghostly prison is a card that conley wood used in his Markov Cocktail http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/ptaus09/decktech3
but you can cut them for more emeria action like in these decks:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=145471&page=30
Those are old extended decks that can be improved with the more extensive card pool of Modern.
Chalice of the void at 0 does not shut down packs in hive mind. Thier pact gets countered, yes, but your copy is put directly on the stack and therefore is not. you still lose on your upkeep if you do not pay for it.
-Sun Tzu
Decks I Play
EDH
RStarke of Rath chaosR
UBGrim Grin Zombie TribalUB
UWHanna Ship's NavigatorUW
Legacy
WMono-White Stax/ Armageddon StaxW
RWRed/White Goblin Welder StaxRW
XMUDX
Well... there's Living End and Restore Balance, although I guess Etherswon Canonist and Rule of Law do the same thing.
Wolfwood Sama on MTGO (Westane for PureMTGO community events)
UR - Burning Vengeance
BG - The Rock
RUG - RUG Control
BBB - Zombies
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
@0 you stop: Restore Balance/Living End
@1 you stop: Kird Ape/Wild Nacatl/Goblin Guide/PtE/Rites of Flames
@2 you stop: Teeg/Pridemage/Desperate Ritual/Tarmogoyf
@3 you stop: KotR/Seething Song
It can be used in all matchups except 12post.
Canonist vs Rule of Law: Less enchantment hate is played vice Artifact/Creature hate. Canonist doesn't stop Affinity (Rule of Law is too slow for Affinity). Canonist can be dropped a turn faster. It all depends on what you want.
Gotta love trolls. It's not obvious that someone who's ideas were disregarded in this thread created an account just to post on here. The 1 post gives it away dude!
However, for educational and reinteration purposes:
The deck DOES NOT need PoR. If you are running the 1CC defense, then yes, the deck needs it. But why on earth would a I run a (relatively) 7CC Instant (that I have to play during my upkeep) to bring back 1 of my 4 Martyrs? Why would I do that when by the time I get to 8 mana (cuz I'm not gonig to Rebirth without mana open) when Emeria does it for free at the same point in the game? Ghostly Prison is the lock that binds this deck together. Without it, you would be run over by Zoo before you can stabalize. This is a MUST 4 in the deck. Whoever's alter ego this is, GO TROLL SOMEWHERE ELSE!
@Pierce: I'll add Luminarch in the win conditions. I don't play it cause it's easily a distraction on your overall game plan. Trying to protect it will result in you wasting more resources then waiting until a sweeper and seal the game for you. Try it out though. I do not think it's better than Sacred Mesa. Maybe a 3 of in the sb for the control matchups so you can drop it T2 and use that for your win condition. I have Condemn md for those emergency answers that sorcery speed removal can't answer. It's a play preference for that (except I do say that in this deck Condemn is better than PtE). I use WoO for the big butt and the card draw. The card draw has saved me more than gaining 2-3 life from blocking would have. Remember white does not have card draw, so we have to squeeze in as much as possible. Try out the walls and let us know. Thanks for the critical feedback on the Primer, as it still has a big portion left to finish.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
While it has cute interactions, I see it as a deterrent away from the current plan. Remember, the only creatures of opponents we put in the g/y is from sweepers. While is has cuteness with WoO, MoS, Sadbot, and Titan, I just don't play it. Try it out and see if it helps the overall matchups.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
I played it with sacred mesa for a while in the french Wu version of it. It was too slow. I discovered that there are some other things i want to do with my mana in the later turns, like optimizing the life engine.
There is no Correct approach to this deck, but there are some better tuned up ones.
If your deck have
4 Martyr of Sands
2 Kami of false Hope
1 figure of destiny
4 Ranger of eos
3/4 Proclamation of rebirth
3/4 Wrath of god
You play one game, gain life fast. They will have to commit to the board to try to kill you, you wrath them and repeat.
Proclamation of rebirth is not a card tath you need to play always for the convoke cost, sometimes you just cast it after wrath of god to bring 1 or 2 martyrs and gain more life. Proclamation then turns in a kami of false hope recursion engine.
Another thing, condemn is not good in this deck. Elves is a nearly impossible match for it, so you need to be able to hit them anytime, not just when they attack for the win. Crovax, Ascendant Hero is a good card overall and a decent finisher.
There are versions of this deck with 4 paths and 4 lightning helix main. to fight zoo and elves. Every zoo list has quasali pridemages maindeck, it's unreal to think that ghostly prison is even a good card. They can't stop you from gaining 20 or 30 life a game, so that's the best part of the deck and should be your main goal.
Consider what i'm saying not because Who I am, troll, noob, whatever. Consider the cards and the advices from pro players (not me) and test them Before you discard the ideas and call me a troll.
Have Fun.
1. Slow down their approach on casting creatures. Winning situation. It's called tempo.
2. Slow down on the attacking to get a better board. Winning.
You sir, need to troll elsewhere and keep your "2 posts" elsewhere. The deck destroys all aggro. I don' need to listen to the preaching about a deck that was relevant 3 years ago CAUSE Emeria wasn't printed yet. Guaranteed if Emeria was in that T2 era, PoR would not have seen play.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
4 ethersworn canonist
4 wall of omens
3 martyr of sands
2 magus of the tabernacle
1 gideon jura
1 crovax ascended hero
4 oblivion ring
4 story circle
4 silence
4 ghostly prison
3 trinishphere
2 staff of domination
2 wrath of god
2 day of judgement
2 sacred mesa
16 plains
3 emeria the sky ruin
i am more interested in the control aspect of MWC. suggestions?
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the amazing sig!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
The base that he sugested was fine and should be at least tested
I would think about splash to red and black for disrupts and ajani
And Would Also run Squadron Hawk, Swords, Titan, Tectonic Edge, Ajani Vengeant and Proclamation
Emeria Seems to slow for a format with edges, Quarters
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ROFLMAO...nice 1 post.
No it shouldn't. Proclamation is only good if you build the 1CC build filled with Martyr, Kami, Mogg Fanatic(if you go r/w).
I have no problem getting Emeria online. It's not meant to get online T1-5. Those turns are for early control and board building (i.e. Wall of Omens, Ghostly Prison). I'm not filling the deck with Swords and Hawks, Why wouldn't I play CAW-Blade then? Seriously, go troll somewhere else dude.
I really wouldn't call Hawk+Plains a powerful engine. To recur a 1/1 flyer. While it's cute and I could use it as a 1 of in the deck. If I put 4 Hawks in there, then I will want to put Swords in. If I put Swords in, why would I play WoO....next thing I know I'm playing CAW-Blade.
There's a small amount on the black splash. I would never play Arena. Anything w/ double splash color is not good. Remember you are only playing 4 shocklands of your fetched color. Castigate is nice, I think I would rather play Sculler. Cause I can get Sculler back later if needed.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
I just think that if you use hawks its like 9+ llife with martyr here u also improve you chances of getting martyrs since hawk gives you 3 cards
I will run Hawks and Survival cache-Castigate and mortify or helix and vengeant
Not many decks use a lot of basics if u recur edges and quarters with titan u get a nice board control and also get recursion for sculler and other nice 3 cc stuff
sit down with prison with so many quasalis on the other side does not seem very good
aggros in general is a really good match against anyy formation of this deck
if you use castigate -sculer-edges-quarter u can get a better position against 12 post and other control match ups
Since Hawks-martyrs cache are not imeadiate problems the control will let u resolve then then u get your sword and bash their face
Serious man we are not troll just trying to give you a diiferent aproach for the deck
The reason I'm calling you a troll and the "other guy" is you have no posts outside of this thread and you just joined in the last few days. Obviously a fake account just to post the same information.
1. You are diluting your deck. Martyr is not for a reusable effect. It's an early game life spike to help you stabilize. If you want to build a Martyr deck, go for it.
2. That sounds like a horrible deck. 3 colors? That's not even MWC.
3. If you douse your mana base with 2 lands made for sac'ing, you will never get to 7 plains. Your m/u w/ 12 post will be better, somewhat. But you will lose to alot of other decks.
4. I've lost a whopping total of 3 or 4 games cause of a Qasali/Krosan Grip pointed at my Prison. This deck runs alot of enchantments that cause issues for an opposing Zoo player.
5. First off, any good control player will do their best not to let a Hawk resolve. They know it's a 4 for 1 card advantage. Again, this is not the route of a control deck (except CAW-Blade).
MWC utilizes taxing effects to stabalize a board position until it sweeps and then takes control via recurring beaters via Emeria or making 4-5 1/1 flying tokens.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290