I have started testing Mulldrifter, its actually really good cause like it helps you find what you need and gives you a permanent to sac to gargadon. Oh yeah, leyline is the best grave hate cause i have run into melira combo and through the breach a few times.
My friend and I played in a local modern tournament this weekend. He didn't have a deck ready, so I did a quick hand-off of my balance deck to him before the tournament and I opted for my own rogue wild pair deck. He had never played the deck before and had only a general understanding of the deck based on reviewing the list and a quick discussion with me.
Tournament was small, very low turnout, just 6 people.
Round 1: We get paired (FML). We both know that my deck has an auto-loss against his, so we use this round as an opportunity for him to get his footing with the deck. Kinda like running the training/testing games in mid-tournament. I try an unusual SB plan and still get steamrolled by him in game 2.
Round 2: I didn't see most of this round, but I caught the last game where he ran through all 4 balances, one of them even suspended naturally. Another win for him. Opponent was running something kinda aggro-y with Punishing Willows mainboard.
Round 3: He gets matched up against some exarch twin list. All of game 1 it looked like the opponent was running dragonstorm but just failed to go off. Games 2 & 3 were lost to playing mistakes generated by inexperience with the deck.
He ended in the bottom of the prize bracket with a 2-1 record, but that is with literally no experience with the deck and the easy potential to have come in first if not for a couple mistakes created by running the deck cold.
The list in question ran 10 land, 6 basics and 4 terramorphic expanses.
20 borderposts
10 cascades
4 balance
4 gargadon
2 march of the machines
4 rift bolt
2 Ajani Venjeant
4 cloudskate
I'll be keeping my SB under wraps tho
Some tips:
Always play varied borderposts when possible. Playing around echoing truth and the like costs nothing but does make a difference.
If you have the spare borderposts (in hand or play) and they target one with a kicked into the roil, sac it to gargadon in response. You will be much better situated to win if you're tempoing your opponent rather than vice versa. Especially since you will be a turn closer to gargadon and they won't get the draw to find more bounce and draw spells.
Don't forget that borderposts have an alt cost of 3 mana. No reason to set yourself back a turn if you can instead be acceling your board position.
Don't forget that T1 terramorphic expanse still produces 2 borderposts on turn 2 (tap land, bounce, play borderpost, replay land, tap, bounce, play borderpost)
Well, that's about it. Hope this proved helpful to someone here. It is definitely a powerful deck that can do very well with little practice.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Wow, all 20 borderposts? Thirst for Knowledge would definatly hit an artifact in that deck I have some limited testing against exarch twin, it gets completely blown out if you instant cascasde when they enter their combat phase. I like Rift Bolt.
March of the Machines has been mentioned a few times on this thread, how does it work out for you?
Wow, all 20 borderposts? Thirst for Knowledge would definatly hit an artifact in that deck I have some limited testing against exarch twin, it gets completely blown out if you instant cascasde when they enter their combat phase. I like Rift Bolt.
Yeah, the big problem in the 3rd round was not having faced bounce with the deck before, so he didn't know the right way to play through it with this deck.
Typically, I've found it better to never let exarch twin get near their combo. just geddon them out of the game. When they are forced to choose land with all those ponders and preordains, they won't have as much gas, and you can easily resolve a second balance to just close the game.
Thirst was one of the cards on the short list for this deck, but in the end it just didn't make the cut.
March of the Machines has been mentioned a few times on this thread, how does it work out for you?
typically it works like this:
you'll normally have 5 or more borderposts out when you march. you play march, swing with a borderpost for between 3 and 5 (depending on the number of ardent pleas resolved this game). and then swing for lethal the turn after. It isn't hard to defend 5 3/3s when your opponent has no land.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Wow, 20 borderposts, your deck doesn't want to see ancient grudge ever. Or any shatterstorm effects.
Mine is a little more vulnerable to hate, but I figured walking in that artifacts would be under-hated in the local store and that it was best to be more consistent in finding my borderpost mana. Besides, nobody runs expensive artifact hate like shatterstorm anymore. The only frequent artifact hate is shattering spree and ancient grudge. All the same, my friend ran into none through the entire tournament.
Ultimately, my build is a little less resilient against hate, but it is better positioned than most for taking advantage of undeveloped metas due to its higher consistency.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Also... I think we should try enhancement route if you want to add something to the deck, there seems to be a bit too much artifact hate recently for my likings.
I had considered the card but I feel that it has to large of a down side first it has to be on the board before you can combo which means you can't combo off until turn 4 at the earliest. It will also be a dead card against other combo decks. Since combo is filling the meta at the moment I just feel the card is to slow. not a bad choice against 12 post taking thier titan and they normally give us an extra turn. but they could just grab and ulamog and blow it up plus they seam to be packing oblivion stone which just wreacks our day
I was just about to post it as well el I didn't like many of his card choices here but I did find Thieves fortune an interesting idea due to you getting to dig deeper and being able to put restore balance on the bottom of the deck I will have to do some testing with it. I am also kinda confused about the main deck O ring but he doesn't have bant charms either which I just find amazing. I noticed he has a hard time against blue decks which is probable because he didn't have any vendilion cliques. Cliques would have also helped in his match up vs the twin decks ripping the remaining part of the combo from their hand.
I was thinking the same thing tutor was an instant it would make much more sense. I like being able to add the extra win con of march to the deck but he also had to add spirite guides for the excel mainly due to only running very few basics and running cipt lands that really hurt his chances. I see he also went with a five casting plainswalker which he didn't feel was very strong but we have already discussed this. I am considering though that I may just give up on trying to make the red match up winnable and just become stronger to everything else. Leyline of singularity was interesting but I am not sure it's needed especially with our brew.
The more borderposts you run, the more vulnerable to hate you are, but the more consistent and brutal your balances will be. People run the list that best balances this tradeoff in their eyes.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I am running 15 lands in mine, but I have been trying out Flagstones of Trokair as a 1-2 of to let me get 2 counters off my Greater Gargadon. I only play 12 Borderposts, but I have been working on picking up 1, maybe 2, March of the Machines to test that out.
I have begun to feel that having more than 1 Blood Moon doesn't add too much to the deck.
As far as the PT deck goes, Thieves' Fortune is probably better than Thirst for Knowledge so that would be a good card to try out. Having to play 1 of each of the Borderposts because of a Leyline is iffy. For people that play the Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds package, does that work out well for you? Do you find that you can get a turn 3 Restore Balance off most of the time? Do you have trouble getting a Greater Gargadon suspended before you have to Balance?
My deck seems to be having some consistancy problems, I often mulligan down to 5 and have to set up a turn 4 Balance (which can lose to my friends 12post and Legacy reanimator decks) Do we have to worry about Iona, Shield of Emeria at all in modern?
I am running 15 lands in mine, but I have been trying out Flagstones of Trokair as a 1-2 of to let me get 2 counters off my Greater Gargadon. I only play 12 Borderposts, but I have been working on picking up 1, maybe 2, March of the Machines to test that out.
I have begun to feel that having more than 1 Blood Moon doesn't add too much to the deck.
As far as the PT deck goes, Thieves' Fortune is probably better than Thirst for Knowledge so that would be a good card to try out. Having to play 1 of each of the Borderposts because of a Leyline is iffy. For people that play the Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds package, does that work out well for you? Do you find that you can get a turn 3 Restore Balance off most of the time? Do you have trouble getting a Greater Gargadon suspended before you have to Balance?
My deck seems to be having some consistancy problems, I often mulligan down to 5 and have to set up a turn 4 Balance (which can lose to my friends 12post and Legacy reanimator decks) Do we have to worry about Iona, Shield of Emeria at all in modern?
The thing is, with high borderpost counts you are extremely consistent on balance. with lower counts you need a GG to let your balance go crazy. My list with 6 basics, 4 terramorphics and 20 borderposts can geddon-wrath very consistently on t3 or 4 (3 leaves them one land, 4 leaves them none)
My list doesn't need to win off a given balance because it can afford to balance 3 or four times in a game. Balances may be shot off freely just to clear out land. Lists with less borderposts can't do this. Because I don't rely on a combo with any balance, I also am not hurt by mulliganning anywhere near as much. If I mull to 5, all it means is that my first balance will be that much stronger.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Has anyone tried Boom//Bust out of the sideboard? The cascade effects from Ardent Plea and Violent Outburst both cascade into it, and it seems like it utterly destroys 12Post.
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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
Has anyone tried Boom//Bust out of the sideboard? The cascade effects from Ardent Plea and Violent Outburst both cascade into it, and it seems like it utterly destroys 12Post.
I have it in my sideboard to increase threat density against blue decks, but I will likely be cutting it due to the relevant kind of decks not existing.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Has anyone tried Boom//Bust out of the sideboard? The cascade effects from Ardent Plea and Violent Outburst both cascade into it, and it seems like it utterly destroys 12Post.
boom/bust isn't good against 12 post it's actually not that great. Reason is because balance is much stronger against them. allow a primeval to resolve and then restore balance devistates thier mana base. With boom/bust you would still have to deal with the titan making it a bad play and they would recover quickly or just plain kill U.
Cards I am looking into at the moment are aven mindcensor and Thievs' fortune. These would replace bloodmoon and Thirst for knowledge. I feel that the mindcensor is stronger against post decks not letting them search for win cons and that the fortune works basically the same as thrist but in a game where you would cascade into the last balance if you hit it with fortune you can set up your next draw step as well and place unwanted cards before the balance allowing you better draws. Another thing about the mindcensor is that it cuts off all zoo's fetches after a sweep with bloodmoon they can just hold onto the burn in thier hand and burn you out it also allows them to still play a few creatures depending on the version which can by them time
On the note of Lands. I am currently running 16 this may seam high but when I ran 14 I mulliganed a lot of the time and this actually costed me quite a few matches. I have cut back on the Riftwing cloudskates.
Anyone seen the new Skaab Ruinator from INI spoiler? Look like a great finisher after Balance... especially if discarded to the Thirst!
what 3 guys are you removing from your yard to play it? Also side note: they are already up to $20 on scg It's apparently excepted to be used/good atm.
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Tournament was small, very low turnout, just 6 people.
Round 1: We get paired (FML). We both know that my deck has an auto-loss against his, so we use this round as an opportunity for him to get his footing with the deck. Kinda like running the training/testing games in mid-tournament. I try an unusual SB plan and still get steamrolled by him in game 2.
Round 2: I didn't see most of this round, but I caught the last game where he ran through all 4 balances, one of them even suspended naturally. Another win for him. Opponent was running something kinda aggro-y with Punishing Willows mainboard.
Round 3: He gets matched up against some exarch twin list. All of game 1 it looked like the opponent was running dragonstorm but just failed to go off. Games 2 & 3 were lost to playing mistakes generated by inexperience with the deck.
He ended in the bottom of the prize bracket with a 2-1 record, but that is with literally no experience with the deck and the easy potential to have come in first if not for a couple mistakes created by running the deck cold.
The list in question ran 10 land, 6 basics and 4 terramorphic expanses.
20 borderposts
10 cascades
4 balance
4 gargadon
2 march of the machines
4 rift bolt
2 Ajani Venjeant
4 cloudskate
I'll be keeping my SB under wraps tho
Some tips:
Always play varied borderposts when possible. Playing around echoing truth and the like costs nothing but does make a difference.
If you have the spare borderposts (in hand or play) and they target one with a kicked into the roil, sac it to gargadon in response. You will be much better situated to win if you're tempoing your opponent rather than vice versa. Especially since you will be a turn closer to gargadon and they won't get the draw to find more bounce and draw spells.
Don't forget that borderposts have an alt cost of 3 mana. No reason to set yourself back a turn if you can instead be acceling your board position.
Don't forget that T1 terramorphic expanse still produces 2 borderposts on turn 2 (tap land, bounce, play borderpost, replay land, tap, bounce, play borderpost)
Well, that's about it. Hope this proved helpful to someone here. It is definitely a powerful deck that can do very well with little practice.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
March of the Machines has been mentioned a few times on this thread, how does it work out for you?
Cards for sale: Check them out!
Yeah, the big problem in the 3rd round was not having faced bounce with the deck before, so he didn't know the right way to play through it with this deck.
Typically, I've found it better to never let exarch twin get near their combo. just geddon them out of the game. When they are forced to choose land with all those ponders and preordains, they won't have as much gas, and you can easily resolve a second balance to just close the game.
Thirst was one of the cards on the short list for this deck, but in the end it just didn't make the cut.
typically it works like this:
you'll normally have 5 or more borderposts out when you march. you play march, swing with a borderpost for between 3 and 5 (depending on the number of ardent pleas resolved this game). and then swing for lethal the turn after. It isn't hard to defend 5 3/3s when your opponent has no land.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Try the Tezz 2.0
Mine is a little more vulnerable to hate, but I figured walking in that artifacts would be under-hated in the local store and that it was best to be more consistent in finding my borderpost mana. Besides, nobody runs expensive artifact hate like shatterstorm anymore. The only frequent artifact hate is shattering spree and ancient grudge. All the same, my friend ran into none through the entire tournament.
Ultimately, my build is a little less resilient against hate, but it is better positioned than most for taking advantage of undeveloped metas due to its higher consistency.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
What do you mean by *enhancement*
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
I have begun to feel that having more than 1 Blood Moon doesn't add too much to the deck.
As far as the PT deck goes, Thieves' Fortune is probably better than Thirst for Knowledge so that would be a good card to try out. Having to play 1 of each of the Borderposts because of a Leyline is iffy. For people that play the Terramorphic Expanse and Evolving Wilds package, does that work out well for you? Do you find that you can get a turn 3 Restore Balance off most of the time? Do you have trouble getting a Greater Gargadon suspended before you have to Balance?
My deck seems to be having some consistancy problems, I often mulligan down to 5 and have to set up a turn 4 Balance (which can lose to my friends 12post and Legacy reanimator decks) Do we have to worry about Iona, Shield of Emeria at all in modern?
Cards for sale: Check them out!
The thing is, with high borderpost counts you are extremely consistent on balance. with lower counts you need a GG to let your balance go crazy. My list with 6 basics, 4 terramorphics and 20 borderposts can geddon-wrath very consistently on t3 or 4 (3 leaves them one land, 4 leaves them none)
My list doesn't need to win off a given balance because it can afford to balance 3 or four times in a game. Balances may be shot off freely just to clear out land. Lists with less borderposts can't do this. Because I don't rely on a combo with any balance, I also am not hurt by mulliganning anywhere near as much. If I mull to 5, all it means is that my first balance will be that much stronger.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Has anyone tried Boom//Bust out of the sideboard? The cascade effects from Ardent Plea and Violent Outburst both cascade into it, and it seems like it utterly destroys 12Post.
I have it in my sideboard to increase threat density against blue decks, but I will likely be cutting it due to the relevant kind of decks not existing.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
boom/bust isn't good against 12 post it's actually not that great. Reason is because balance is much stronger against them. allow a primeval to resolve and then restore balance devistates thier mana base. With boom/bust you would still have to deal with the titan making it a bad play and they would recover quickly or just plain kill U.
Cards I am looking into at the moment are aven mindcensor and Thievs' fortune. These would replace bloodmoon and Thirst for knowledge. I feel that the mindcensor is stronger against post decks not letting them search for win cons and that the fortune works basically the same as thrist but in a game where you would cascade into the last balance if you hit it with fortune you can set up your next draw step as well and place unwanted cards before the balance allowing you better draws. Another thing about the mindcensor is that it cuts off all zoo's fetches after a sweep with bloodmoon they can just hold onto the burn in thier hand and burn you out it also allows them to still play a few creatures depending on the version which can by them time
On the note of Lands. I am currently running 16 this may seam high but when I ran 14 I mulliganed a lot of the time and this actually costed me quite a few matches. I have cut back on the Riftwing cloudskates.
what 3 guys are you removing from your yard to play it? Also side note: they are already up to $20 on scg It's apparently excepted to be used/good atm.