I'm considering building some version this deck in paper and possibly on MTGO... am I correct in thinking that it's pretty resilient against Chalice of the Void @ X=0 since you don't need to combo to actually win? Have any of you played against the Chalice-heavy metagame yet, and if so, how was the deck at playing the non-combo beatdown role?
Chalice is annoying but that's what Ingot Chewer is for. Only time it was ever played against me the guy had 2 on the board, first was at 1 counter (he thought I was on Delver) and the second was on 0 after he realized what I was playing. I ended up winning. It really isn't a big deal ESPECIALLY if you have the Chewers.
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I played restore balance this weekend and made day 2 with a 6-0-3 ( i went 6-0-1 then we pact the 2 last rounds for day2 because they resets the points for the day 2 so wasnt any diference between 7-0-1 or 6-0-3 ) in the GP milan.
The day 2 I started losing the first round 1-0 against monowhite because he topdecked an orzhov charm to put a 6/6 instant speed in my EOT and kill me when i already have jace and ajani controlling the table. Then i won the 3 next rounds into 3-1 ( i just needed win 1 more for make money or the perfect for top8) but then i lose the 3 last rounds so 3-4 in the day 2
The decklist was almost the same one that i played in the PT Valencia with some small changes like add 2 dig though time.
Dude I would love to hear more about your games! There aren't a ton of people who have taken this deck to a large event and I feel that I, as well as everyone else playing the deck, could benefit from hearing about it in depth.
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So, I play the nonblack post iteration of the deck (not the decklist that's been going around, I run some different choices such as Ral Zarek and Bow of Nylea), but I've been thinking of doing a complete revamp of the deck to add black to let me run both Nihilith and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver (admittedly, moreso for Ashiok due it them being one of my favorite Planeswalkers).
well I like it a lot and i played it even in the PT because its really strong and funny, in this GP I was a bit dissapointed because i lost the las 3 games in a row against tron ( g1 karn t3, g2 i had ingot chewer for the expedition map but he has the tron in his main hand and when i trew my vendilion he had 2 karns so was pointless), Scapeshift ( i won the 1º one, i lost the 2º game because of a teferi and i lost the 3º one because i didnt had red mana for counterflux nor cascade+ricochet trap backup)and the last chance was against UR delver and i lost again after win the first game easily, but then he had strong starts and i couldnt find cascades in the other games.
The rounds i won was against a lot of monoW, pod and junk and also vs 1 UR and 1 Jeskai combo.
Which PT did you play in and how did it go? I really like hearing about all of this.
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I'm currently running the 12Post version of the deck. I couldn't imagine playing the deck without them honestly. It's not like we have moxen but this is the closest we are gonna get.
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So, what are the thoughts on Ashiok? I'm in favor.
I like the idea... still building the core of the deck, though. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver would be able to come down early, pre-Balance more easily than the 4cc+ 'walkers in the deck. This means a better early Restore Balance. The downside is that he does little work against decks without impactful creatures (e.g. Storm, Scapeshift, Jeskai Ascendancy). Even UR Delver's and Affinity's creatures suck without the support network of the rest of the deck.
I feel like if Delver receives a banning in any way and it brings the meta percentages lower then this deck will be a lot better positioned to do well in a larger event.
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So, what are the thoughts on Ashiok? I'm in favor.
I like the idea... still building the core of the deck, though. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver would be able to come down early, pre-Balance more easily than the 4cc+ 'walkers in the deck. This means a better early Restore Balance. The downside is that he does little work against decks without impactful creatures (e.g. Storm, Scapeshift, Jeskai Ascendancy). Even UR Delver's and Affinity's creatures suck without the support network of the rest of the deck.
Ashiok is more than stealing the opponent's creatures. The simple milling they do is a potential wincon and the ultimate is also powerful. Especially if you time it a few turns after the balance to prevent them from coming back.
wow, that's good.. i am about to test this version a couple of weeks.. here is my decklist.. the sideboard lacks 3x Leyline of Sanctity, i am thinking of any replacements for them for the meantime?
i still have 4 slots left for the sideboard.. any suggestions aside from the Leyline are welcome.. can't afford that right now.. i just thought Kiora would be good for this deck. her +1 is good for stalling, then her -5 emblem is great endgame.. i am still skeptical about removing 1x Greater Gargadon and replacing it with a more versatile threat.. i want also to add another Ajani Vengeant, he just helps me a lot when i am in a low life count, and also delaying the opponent.. if my budget permits, i will replace 4 basic fetches and 2 ingots with 2 Flooded Strand, 2 Wooded Foothills, 1 Steam Vents and 1 Breeding Pool.. could you please share your decklist/s that you consider good for current modern meta?
I'm running 8 fetches(a mix of Wondswept Heaths, Wooded Foothills, Flooded Strands, Arid Mesa and Misty Rainforest), 5 shocks (I'm cutting down to 3 or 4) and currently have 4 basics. The mana base feels super powerful except having a 5th shock sucks when you draw them and don't have a basic or fetch and a handful of Borderposts. For the walkers I'm running 6 total, 2 Ajani Vengeant (best card in the deck), 1 Garruk Relentless, 1 Elspeth Knight Errant, 1 Jace AoT, and 1 Gideon Jura.
I don't have my deck in front of me but I remember adding some weird ***** to the sideboard and I'll bring that up later. Ricochet Trap is the best card in the sideboard. I'm contemplating bringing in 4. Delver is just so bad.
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I'm running 8 fetches(a mix of Wondswept Heaths, Wooded Foothills, Flooded Strands, Arid Mesa and Misty Rainforest), 5 shocks (I'm cutting down to 3 or 4) and currently have 4 basics. The mana base feels super powerful except having a 5th shock sucks when you draw them and don't have a basic or fetch and a handful of Borderposts. For the walkers I'm running 6 total, 2 Ajani Vengeant (best card in the deck), 1 Garruk Relentless, 1 Elspeth Knight Errant, 1 Jace AoT, and 1 Gideon Jura.
I don't have my deck in front of me but I remember adding some weird ***** to the sideboard and I'll bring that up later. Ricochet Trap is the best card in the sideboard. I'm contemplating bringing in 4. Delver is just so bad.
I'm also on the same route on bringing in KTK Fetches.. I have already tested it in MWS and they seem perfectly fine alongside with some shocklands as 1-of.. I feel the same way on Ajani Vengeant, he really helps me a lot of matches especially Burn and Aggro decks.. I always really want to draw him early.. I can't afford Elspeth, Knight Errant right now, and Gideon Jura is really hard to find here, so I suited-up with another planeswalker in form of Ral Zarek and Kiora, the Crashing Wave.. Any thoughts on substitute planeswalker for the meantime?
In regards to the sideboard, yes.. Ricochet Trap is really huge.. If it happens that you remember your sideboard, please share it to me, i just want to have a good idea of what sideboard do i really have to build.. Thanks in advance!
i haven't tried this deck in a while and I was thinking of using the gods Mogis, God of Slaughter and/or Keranos, God of Storms
as a means of continually applying pressure to my opponents, I particularly like mogis for his shock or sacrifice trigger.
-the idea behind behind mogis, god of slaughter in the list is he can turn on with the borderposts if you have enough of the right color. like all of the gods if they don't have enough devotion, they avoid restore balance, but you probably already know that.
-being that the deck is jund color focused and I felt liliana of the veil would go hand in hand with dominating the board with restore balance. her first and second abilities help mogis's trigger by keeping creatures off the field. first ability can also help you get bricks out of your hand for restore balance to do a total discard of your opponents hand. (when i say bricks, i mean extra copies of restore balance, 4cc spells i can't cast or even extra lands, that sort of stuff)
-liliana is also the reason I have 1 unburial rites floating in the list, can bring back greater gardadon or mogis.
-Chandra, Pyromaster originally this was a 1 of tezzeret, agent of bolas for the borderposts, but blue is too hard to come by, she lookeds better cause she play to the plan of ticking your opponent to death. the middle ability does concern, me as i'm not sure if you can play borderposts from the exile zone, however exiling for card advantage is not a bad thing, this keeps your hand count low, most relevent spells in the deck only cost 4cc, so exiling them isn't a bad thing since she's 4cc and your already played her. cards like restore balance and greater gargadon weren't going to be hard cast anyways. if i were to put more card draw into the deck maybe it might be an additional Chandra, Pyromaster or something else.
-Could use suggestions for jund card draw that is 3cc?
- the mana base does look wierd, but with the re-release of the allied fetches that was something I felt the deck's mana base needed when i last tried it over a year ago, maybe i'm making some bad card choices based on out dated information.
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Hey TheRogue, I like the look of your list. I do have a few questions about it though.
Does Mogis seem to be a reliable wincon on his own? I run a more blue version with Thassa and I absolutely love her. I haven't tried any of the other gods but Mogis does seem interesting. One of the drawbacks I see to him is that if you want him to be a creature devotion 7 is a lot more tedious than devotion 5. Although I will say having Chandra and LotV should help you hit 7 a lot faster. How often does he turn into a creature for you? And furthermore, how often does he swing for lethal? I have won many games with Thassa because she can turn herself unblockable, and normally Ardent Plea gives her exalted so that's always nice.
Also, have you noticed any problems against control with Demonic Dread? What I mean is sometimes you want to wipe the board before turn 4 (Memoricide, Slaughter Games, etc), and if they don't have a creature in play at that time you're not able to balance right away. Has this cost you any games? Against your deck it looks like a turn 4 Memoricide would be really hard to come back from.
With all those fetches I see burn being a pretty rough match for you because they really only need 2 mana to win. Unless you have a GG stomping in their face they'll be able to topdeck burn even if you discard most/all of their hand. Have you considered 1x Bow of Nylea? It helps recycle used Balances(not that you need more than 4 but occasionally it does happen), and also gives you an unlimited avenue for lifegain against stuff like burn. It would also help alleviate some of the pain from your fetches!
I must say I like the 1 of with Unburial Rites but I feel like it's one of those cards you really only want to pitch to LotV's +1. Seems kinda out of place with 6 creatures, 2 of them being gods which likely won't be activated when you return them.
Does Mogis seem to be a reliable wincon on his own? I run a more blue version with Thassa and I absolutely love her. I haven't tried any of the other gods but Mogis does seem interesting. One of the drawbacks I see to him is that if you want him to be a creature devotion 7 is a lot more tedious than devotion 5. Although I will say having Chandra and LotV should help you hit 7 a lot faster. How often does he turn into a creature for you? And furthermore, how often does he swing for lethal? I have won many games with Thassa because she can turn herself unblockable, and normally Ardent Plea gives her exalted so that's always nice.
Also, have you noticed any problems against control with Demonic Dread? What I mean is sometimes you want to wipe the board before turn 4 (Memoricide, Slaughter Games, etc), and if they don't have a creature in play at that time you're not able to balance right away. Has this cost you any games? Against your deck it looks like a turn 4 Memoricide would be really hard to come back from.
With all those fetches I see burn being a pretty rough match for you because they really only need 2 mana to win. Unless you have a GG stomping in their face they'll be able to topdeck burn even if you discard most/all of their hand. Have you considered 1x Bow of Nylea? It helps recycle used Balances(not that you need more than 4 but occasionally it does happen), and also gives you an unlimited avenue for lifegain against stuff like burn. It would also help alleviate some of the pain from your fetches!
i also run 2x Thassa, God of the Sea in my deck.. at 2U, she comes down early.. and her Scry 1 every upkeep makes your deck more consistent.. devotion to 5 is not hard to do.. i have my decklist above..
in my list i also run a Bow of Nylea maindeck.. same reason: Life gain and recycling cards in your graveyard..
Your list looks pretty solid too However, one thing I would be wary of with your build is Surgical Extraction on your wilds/expanse. Don't let your opponent know you run only 4 actual lands otherwise it could come back to haunt ya! If I were you I would adjust it a little bit. A Creeping Corrosion/Shatterstorm would really hurt since you most likely wouldn't be able to recover before they stomp you.
And as for Thassa I'm glad you see the value in her. Scry 1 helps a TON after a balance goes off. I don't know how many times I've scryed into a balance and sent it to the bottom thankful I didn't draw it. I just couldn't say enough good things about her. The only downside I've found is Dismember but often times they board that out games 2 and 3 for more relevant hate. Also having Detention Sphere seems much better than Beast Within to me. I've won quite a few games by removing multiples of annoying permanents.
I'm also really curious about one of your sideboard choices: Phyrexian Unlife. At first I didn't even notice this card in the board but now that I look at it I think it could really help out against some decks. Against what kind of decks do your board it in? And does it save you from dying when it does hit the table? I could see it really helping vs burn and other fast clock decks because you'd get another turn or two to stabilize.
Another card I see a lot of people run but I haven't found a huge use for is Ricochet Trap. Is this purely for counterspells? I really haven't found too many of them lately. Scapeshift only runs a couple Remand/Cryptic, and Delver runs a couple Izzet Charm/Spell Pierce/Remand. Normally knowing what deck I'm going against I haven't had too much difficulty resolving balance. As for the last 4 slots in your SB I would highly suggest Leyline of Sanctity. Discard is fairly common these days and it hurts to have your only cascade spell discarded before you can even drop your first land.
-turning mogis on isn't all that necessary since he shocks my opponent every turn, some what that is the goal is to shock your opponent low enough that they will never be able to keep a creature on there upkeep, not having lighting bolt and other 1cc burn does make this a lengthy process than usual for mogis. theres prenty of board wipes to keep it going. I'd run both mogis, god of slaughter and keranos, god of storms but i went the route of pulling blue from the deck.
- I did want to run Rift Bolt but I found situations where it wasn't big enough to do spot removal, if nothing needed spot removal i could throw them at my opponents life and futher mogis's ticks. (looking at @Jund_lover26's list, i might need to rethink the use of rift bolt)
- the excessive amount of fetches isn't a big deal against burn you really only fetch 2 to 3 times most games just for getting the borderposts set up, however if they use artifact hate to gain tempo against me and I'm not drawing more posts, you might need to fetch more.
- against creatureless control i can make demonic dread more playable by adding 1 dryad arbor, which i should of listed in the mana base. additional beast within could fill that roll for needing a creature target as well.
- haven't tried bow of nylea but i'll slip it into the deck and try it out. was thinking of using Hammer of Purphoros so i could make the top decked lands into something useful.
- unburial rites is kind of a left over card choice from an idea I had of using Lilliana of the Veil for discarding large game dominating creatures, then reviving them, I dropped all of those creatures and kept the UR for saving mogis or getting back garadon.
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its expensive but I was wondering if primal command might be a viable card in the deck. good creature tutors are hard to come by in this format.
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Dude I would love to hear more about your games! There aren't a ton of people who have taken this deck to a large event and I feel that I, as well as everyone else playing the deck, could benefit from hearing about it in depth.
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Which PT did you play in and how did it go? I really like hearing about all of this.
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http://www.gatheringmagic.com/blakerasmussen-modern-02272014-the-three-best-decks-from-pro-tour-born-of-the-gods-you-missed/
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I like the idea... still building the core of the deck, though. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver would be able to come down early, pre-Balance more easily than the 4cc+ 'walkers in the deck. This means a better early Restore Balance. The downside is that he does little work against decks without impactful creatures (e.g. Storm, Scapeshift, Jeskai Ascendancy). Even UR Delver's and Affinity's creatures suck without the support network of the rest of the deck.
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Ashiok is more than stealing the opponent's creatures. The simple milling they do is a potential wincon and the ultimate is also powerful. Especially if you time it a few turns after the balance to prevent them from coming back.
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Forest
-12 lands
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Greater Gargadon
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
-10 creatures
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
4 Restore Balance
4 Mistfield Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
2 Wildfield Borderpost
2 Darksteel Ingot
-25 combo and interaction
3 Detention Sphere
3 Rift Bolt
1 Bow of Nylea
-7 utility and removal
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Ral Zarek
1 Garruk Relentless
-6 planeswalkers
Sideboard:
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Ricochet Trap
2 Beast Within
1 Krosan Grip
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Anger of the Gods
4 slots available
i still have 4 slots left for the sideboard.. any suggestions aside from the Leyline are welcome.. can't afford that right now.. i just thought Kiora would be good for this deck. her +1 is good for stalling, then her -5 emblem is great endgame.. i am still skeptical about removing 1x Greater Gargadon and replacing it with a more versatile threat.. i want also to add another Ajani Vengeant, he just helps me a lot when i am in a low life count, and also delaying the opponent.. if my budget permits, i will replace 4 basic fetches and 2 ingots with 2 Flooded Strand, 2 Wooded Foothills, 1 Steam Vents and 1 Breeding Pool.. could you please share your decklist/s that you consider good for current modern meta?
I don't have my deck in front of me but I remember adding some weird ***** to the sideboard and I'll bring that up later. Ricochet Trap is the best card in the sideboard. I'm contemplating bringing in 4. Delver is just so bad.
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I'm also on the same route on bringing in KTK Fetches.. I have already tested it in MWS and they seem perfectly fine alongside with some shocklands as 1-of.. I feel the same way on Ajani Vengeant, he really helps me a lot of matches especially Burn and Aggro decks.. I always really want to draw him early.. I can't afford Elspeth, Knight Errant right now, and Gideon Jura is really hard to find here, so I suited-up with another planeswalker in form of Ral Zarek and Kiora, the Crashing Wave.. Any thoughts on substitute planeswalker for the meantime?
In regards to the sideboard, yes.. Ricochet Trap is really huge.. If it happens that you remember your sideboard, please share it to me, i just want to have a good idea of what sideboard do i really have to build.. Thanks in advance!
as a means of continually applying pressure to my opponents, I particularly like mogis for his shock or sacrifice trigger.
4 demonic dread
4 restore balance
2 mogis, god of slaughter
1 unburial rites
4 greater gargadon
2 dismember
2 beast within
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Firewild Borderpost
4 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Veinfire Borderpost
2 Wildfield Borderpost
4 wooded foothills
4 verdent catacomb
2 swamp
2 mountain
2 forest
-the idea behind behind mogis, god of slaughter in the list is he can turn on with the borderposts if you have enough of the right color. like all of the gods if they don't have enough devotion, they avoid restore balance, but you probably already know that.
-being that the deck is jund color focused and I felt liliana of the veil would go hand in hand with dominating the board with restore balance. her first and second abilities help mogis's trigger by keeping creatures off the field. first ability can also help you get bricks out of your hand for restore balance to do a total discard of your opponents hand. (when i say bricks, i mean extra copies of restore balance, 4cc spells i can't cast or even extra lands, that sort of stuff)
-liliana is also the reason I have 1 unburial rites floating in the list, can bring back greater gardadon or mogis.
-Chandra, Pyromaster originally this was a 1 of tezzeret, agent of bolas for the borderposts, but blue is too hard to come by, she lookeds better cause she play to the plan of ticking your opponent to death. the middle ability does concern, me as i'm not sure if you can play borderposts from the exile zone, however exiling for card advantage is not a bad thing, this keeps your hand count low, most relevent spells in the deck only cost 4cc, so exiling them isn't a bad thing since she's 4cc and your already played her. cards like restore balance and greater gargadon weren't going to be hard cast anyways. if i were to put more card draw into the deck maybe it might be an additional Chandra, Pyromaster or something else.
-Could use suggestions for jund card draw that is 3cc?
- the mana base does look wierd, but with the re-release of the allied fetches that was something I felt the deck's mana base needed when i last tried it over a year ago, maybe i'm making some bad card choices based on out dated information.
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Does Mogis seem to be a reliable wincon on his own? I run a more blue version with Thassa and I absolutely love her. I haven't tried any of the other gods but Mogis does seem interesting. One of the drawbacks I see to him is that if you want him to be a creature devotion 7 is a lot more tedious than devotion 5. Although I will say having Chandra and LotV should help you hit 7 a lot faster. How often does he turn into a creature for you? And furthermore, how often does he swing for lethal? I have won many games with Thassa because she can turn herself unblockable, and normally Ardent Plea gives her exalted so that's always nice.
Also, have you noticed any problems against control with Demonic Dread? What I mean is sometimes you want to wipe the board before turn 4 (Memoricide, Slaughter Games, etc), and if they don't have a creature in play at that time you're not able to balance right away. Has this cost you any games? Against your deck it looks like a turn 4 Memoricide would be really hard to come back from.
With all those fetches I see burn being a pretty rough match for you because they really only need 2 mana to win. Unless you have a GG stomping in their face they'll be able to topdeck burn even if you discard most/all of their hand. Have you considered 1x Bow of Nylea? It helps recycle used Balances(not that you need more than 4 but occasionally it does happen), and also gives you an unlimited avenue for lifegain against stuff like burn. It would also help alleviate some of the pain from your fetches!
I must say I like the 1 of with Unburial Rites but I feel like it's one of those cards you really only want to pitch to LotV's +1. Seems kinda out of place with 6 creatures, 2 of them being gods which likely won't be activated when you return them.
That's all I have.. for now
i also run 2x Thassa, God of the Sea in my deck.. at 2U, she comes down early.. and her Scry 1 every upkeep makes your deck more consistent.. devotion to 5 is not hard to do.. i have my decklist above..
in my list i also run a Bow of Nylea maindeck.. same reason: Life gain and recycling cards in your graveyard..
And as for Thassa I'm glad you see the value in her. Scry 1 helps a TON after a balance goes off. I don't know how many times I've scryed into a balance and sent it to the bottom thankful I didn't draw it. I just couldn't say enough good things about her. The only downside I've found is Dismember but often times they board that out games 2 and 3 for more relevant hate. Also having Detention Sphere seems much better than Beast Within to me. I've won quite a few games by removing multiples of annoying permanents.
I'm also really curious about one of your sideboard choices: Phyrexian Unlife. At first I didn't even notice this card in the board but now that I look at it I think it could really help out against some decks. Against what kind of decks do your board it in? And does it save you from dying when it does hit the table? I could see it really helping vs burn and other fast clock decks because you'd get another turn or two to stabilize.
Another card I see a lot of people run but I haven't found a huge use for is Ricochet Trap. Is this purely for counterspells? I really haven't found too many of them lately. Scapeshift only runs a couple Remand/Cryptic, and Delver runs a couple Izzet Charm/Spell Pierce/Remand. Normally knowing what deck I'm going against I haven't had too much difficulty resolving balance. As for the last 4 slots in your SB I would highly suggest Leyline of Sanctity. Discard is fairly common these days and it hurts to have your only cascade spell discarded before you can even drop your first land.
-turning mogis on isn't all that necessary since he shocks my opponent every turn, some what that is the goal is to shock your opponent low enough that they will never be able to keep a creature on there upkeep, not having lighting bolt and other 1cc burn does make this a lengthy process than usual for mogis. theres prenty of board wipes to keep it going. I'd run both mogis, god of slaughter and keranos, god of storms but i went the route of pulling blue from the deck.
- I did want to run Rift Bolt but I found situations where it wasn't big enough to do spot removal, if nothing needed spot removal i could throw them at my opponents life and futher mogis's ticks. (looking at @Jund_lover26's list, i might need to rethink the use of rift bolt)
- the excessive amount of fetches isn't a big deal against burn you really only fetch 2 to 3 times most games just for getting the borderposts set up, however if they use artifact hate to gain tempo against me and I'm not drawing more posts, you might need to fetch more.
- against creatureless control i can make demonic dread more playable by adding 1 dryad arbor, which i should of listed in the mana base. additional beast within could fill that roll for needing a creature target as well.
- haven't tried bow of nylea but i'll slip it into the deck and try it out. was thinking of using Hammer of Purphoros so i could make the top decked lands into something useful.
- unburial rites is kind of a left over card choice from an idea I had of using Lilliana of the Veil for discarding large game dominating creatures, then reviving them, I dropped all of those creatures and kept the UR for saving mogis or getting back garadon.
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its expensive but I was wondering if primal command might be a viable card in the deck. good creature tutors are hard to come by in this format.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!