I can't say I'm the master (LOL) but I can answer some questions about card choices.
First, about Wheel of Sun and Moon: I would play one in the board (probably over a Nevermore) if the interaction with Enduring Ideal worked online. Having a fairly powerful graveyard hate card can be quite strong in some matchups, but that's really the icing on the cake. The card's true purpose is to act as an additional win-con (with it you can natural-mill your opponents out once you've locked the game down) that lets you play around hate cards such as Rest in Peace, Blood Moon, and Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge on your Mistveil Plains. The deck only runs 1 copy of most of the important lock pieces--and very few win conditions--so drawing them while Epic-locked can make you instantly lose the game.
Next, I'd have to say the 1-of Expedition Map has served me pretty well. It's a second Boseiju, Who Shelters All against the counterspell decks, an extraNykthos, Shrine to Nyx or storange land against the fair decks, or a Ghost Quarter against the land-based combo deck. The deck doesn't have very many good 1 mana plays, so the first map ends up being very good. That said, it is definitely not a combo with Suppression Field or Stony Silence, and having multiples can make your draws extremely slow. I didn't think I would like the card when I first tried it, but it has performed better for me than the 27th land. It also helps power up the Crucible of Worlds.
ZeroForeverTRA is right that the Confiscate is for Tron. I've found Tron to be the deck's worst matchup in part because they can prevent you from establishing a lock by committing multiple pro-active answers to the board (such as Karn Liberated AND an Oblivion Stone) or by playing one and sandbagging a sweeper (such as All is Dust) in hand. Confiscate lets you take their Karn Liberated to cut them off Tron or remove their second on-board answer, or restart the game (hopefully with a few good lock pieces in play) if they've already ticked him up to the ultimate. Volition Reins is strictly better if you're only tutoring the card out with Enduring Ideal, but I went with Confiscate to make it easier to cast off of Calciform Pools (which I have indeed done before) as I'm generally only stealing Planeswalkers anyway.
The scry lands have been pretty good as the deck doesn't have many good 1-drop plays, as ZeroForeverTRA mentioned. Temples of Triumph also give you a way to hardcast Form of the Dragon eventually. (Which sounds silly, but it lets you eventually empty the Form of the Dragon out of your hand for Ensaring Bridge if you've Dovescape-locked the game as you wait for your Boseiju, Who Shelters All, or win against extraction effects). They are also, importantly, full white sources (as opposed to storage lands or Nykthos) so they can make casting early [CARD=Runed Halo]Runed Halo easier. They also protect your other lands to some extent as they are enormous magnets for destruction (as opponents will put in a surprising amount of effort to cut you off of your presumed second color). That said, I wouldn't go overboard as you're already pretty slow and you already probably running some number of tapped lands in Mistveil Plains and Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
The storage lands are also very, very good in the deck. They shine against the slower decks where they help you gain a mana-advantage against decks with counters, or build up the mana to cast an Enduring Ideal against decks relying on resource-denial. They also just frequently give you something valuable to do with your mana on turns where you otherwise wouldn't be doing anything (because you've already emptied your hand, or you're saving up your cards for one big turn against decks with counters). They're frequently better mana-accelerants than Nytkhos, Shrine to Nyx against decks with a lot of removal for your devotion, or after mulls. They even come in to play untapped. That said, their biggest downside is that they do not immediately tap for white making somecards that you need to drop early harder to cast. And in all but the slowest matchups the second storange land tends to be worse than the first. I would run a lot more of them if I could, but I've had to concede some of the colorless-mana source space to Ghost Quarters as Tron and Amulet Bloom are definitely a thing.
I added a second Nevermore to the board because I wanted some additional combo hate. I'm not married to the slot and I think substituting an Aura of Silence as you've suggested (and as I've run in the past) is quite reasonable. I've still never lived the dream of exiling every non-land permanent from my opponent's board (by alternately fetching Aura of Silence and Oblivion Ring and sac'ing the Aura to kill the Ring with the Ring's trigger on the stack before recycling both to the bottom of the library with Mistveil Plains) as sadly Form of the Dragon tends to win too quickly once you've gone Epic.
I really like the second Sphere of Safety, and I was playing two before I tried out the crucibles. (Overall I thought the maindeck crucible too slow). Sphere is almost a finisher in its own right Game 1 against a lot of the aggro decks, it dodges Inquisition of Kozilek and Abrupt Decay, and it is an additional way to stop the Twin combo. It's also an excellent tutor target, and there are many situations where it can be the best card in your library to get. (There are also a lot of situations in which grabbing one or two can buy you the time you need to set up Peace of Mind+Mistveil Plains to rescue the lock piece you really want from your hand). So it fills a pretty good middle-ground between your early interaction and lockdown cards and the seven-mana Enduring Ideal.
As for whether the UW / UWR version is still viable--I can't say, I've never played the deck. But I am a firm believer that Enduring Ideal is an extremely strong finisher in this format, so if they can reliably find the card and cast it early with protection, I expect the deck is actually quite good. You'll need somebody more experienced in playing combo in Modern to tell you whether the early game is reasonable or not.
On a side note, I spoke with one of the forum Mods and I'm going to be writing a primer for the Mono-White version of the deck, so we'll soon have our own thread and then we can move our discussion over there.
Glad to see this deck getting a little recognition! I like your build and explanation of card choices, Rayolun. I can tell you've tested the deck quite a bit and I'm excited to try a new build because I think you've made some considerable improvements to my original list. Although I'm constantly playing different decks
EDIT: My long post with analysis and recent matchups got deleted somehow But I will edit it back in later. Summary is I'm happy to see other people testing the deck and trying new things! I haven't made many changes to my list recently, but I still think it is quite strong against the majority of the metagame. I plan to be more active testing and discussing it, because I'm still trying to find the optimal build too.
Anyway my local game shop has dubbed this deck "Pillow Fort" because of the ridiculous amount of white enchantments on the board by the time the game ends. I think it's pretty funny
only a 3 round tournament at the lgs cause only 8 people turned up being that its a long weekend. however managed to go 3-0 and was very impressed with how the deck performed. suppression field really amazed me at how much work it does against all the fetch lands and man lands.
round 1
grixis control which i won 2-1,
i lost first round mostly because main board against control you have a lot of dead cards!, it was close but it was a battle, losing to snapcaster beat downs and cryptics value was rough.
side board i took out the 2x nodes, 4 ghostly prison, and 3 ensnaring bridge and i brought in 1x crucible of worlds, 1x luminarch ascension, 2x nevermore, 3x silence and although they arent great but i brought in greater auramancy so he couldnt bounce things with cryptic and aura of silence cause of possible batterksull and a keranos that i saw game 1 and anything else.
game 2
i have a good hand with halo's, land and 2x nevermore, halo's naming thoughtseize and nevermore naming cryptic and slaughter games. we then play draw go for a while and i put in some other enchantments like field and leyline, i draw enduring ideal and have a silence in hand, i have a nykthos so at this point i have 10+ mana from it, silence gets remanded so i play it again and it resolves, play ideal search dovescape and opponent scoops.
game 3
i keep a hand with not much to do, 4 land - 2 being storage lands and double leyline and ideal, seems great against him so i keep. starting the game with double leyline and my opponent lets out a big sigh and already i feel like i got this, this game showcases how good the storage lands were, i play my lands and focus on trying to stack my storage lands, i get one to 3 and the other to 1 counter when my opponent taps out to play olivia voldaren on turn 4 and im doing math and figure out that when i can win off my turn 4 ideal thanks to the storage land having 3 counters search up dove, then sphere, then dragon.
round 2
im up against my mate who is on the death shadow 4c aggro deck (2-0)
i have seen the potential of this deck and can win turn 2 but usually 3-4 when goldfishing. so game 1 i know what i need and find a great hand of prison, field, halo, 3x land and dovescape. dovescape not ideal but i will defs take this 7, this one gets close at one point im down to 3 but eventually get peace of mind and ensnaring bridge, but im limited with my peace of mind activations thanks to the suppression field, but it also stunts him as all of his lands are mostly fetchlands so he struggles to attack and get mana to fetch. then drop a sphere and he knows how my decks goes and he knows its over so we go to game 2,
i sideboard out boseiju, greater auramancy, and a enduring ideal and bring in crucible, and 2 nodes.
game 2
i keep a sketchy 1 land hand, but with a node, peace of mind, bridge, crucible, flagstones, o ring, and ghostly prison. i figure im on the draw and i already have a way to deal with early creatures so i keep and sure enough i rip lands and turn 1 node against turn 1 creature forces them to skip a turn and then cast peace of mind, then prison and crucible in to ghost quartering his land and he says he has no basics and he scoops after a turn as i got full control of the game now. after this round and how this deck dealt with pure aggro im really seeing the power of this deck! its amazing.
round 3
im up against bw tokens and win 2-0
game one was close, i start with a leyline since i know he is on tokens and he plays his tokens and monastery mentor and i have prison out, so he keeps casting spells only to pump his mentor and pay for it getting in. i get down to 6 life before i cast halo naming mentor. my boseiju gets me to 2 life and i cast ideal and search up sphere since it means he cant attack, all im hoping for is that he doesnt have and o-ring effect and i lose, i manage to survive and get dovescope, in to form of the dragon, in to phyrexian unlife.
i sideboard out 3 ensnaring bridge since i dont see its potential against tokens, and take out a suppresion field as he is only on 2 colours and wont play many fetches. and bring in 1 aura of silence for his anthems and possible o-ring, and 1 greater auramancy for any possible sb hate, and 2 nodes.
game 2
i kept 3 land (double scry lands and a basic) double ideal, halo and suppression. relatively good against thoughtseize so i keep, i scry a expedition map to the top, then play and crack it for a nykthos when i can so i can then play my suppression field after. not so much pressure from my opponent playing double virtue in to lingering souls and a thoughtseize taking halo. i eventually play a turn 6 ideal of nykthos. and search up dovescope in to sphere in to unlife in to dragon to be safe.
so that is probs as close to what i remember of the games. but the deck really seems awesome. there isn't too many enchantment hate out there, and with the variety of decks out their now, its harder for people to allocate slots that actually wreck this deck, such as fracturing gust etc. but even then you can still win the turn or two after with ideal. the scry lands are a excellent addition to the deck. helps put away the many cards you dont need such as excess land, enduring ideals if you don't need a second and also all the combo enchantments. the storage lands are awkward with suppression field same with expedition map but at this point i can live with it, but if i was to replace them it would defs be a scry land or two, they were just so good for the deck. the peace of mind really is great against aggro even if you just discard to gain life but also going well with ensnaring bridge is a bonus. but other then that the deck was solid and felt like a true control deck in the form of enchantments and most importantly it was great fun to play.
I've found the matchup against the newer "Little Kid" Abzan deck to actually be decently favorable for the list above, while the matchup against the older, more black heavy lists tends to be slightly unfavorable (although I'm not sure it's too far from even). A lot of the time it comes down to who topdecks better. Unlike a lot of the decks in the format they have a lot of removal for your cards, but they also don't kill that quickly and you have a lot of cards they really want to remove. Your gameplan is to try to exhaust their good removal while building up the resources to land an Enduring Ideal, after which, depending on the exact board state, will either instantly win or force them to immediately have Maelstrom Pulse or Golgari Charm to not lose on the spot.
Your best cards against them early game buy you time and protect your resources. A turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity can blank their early hand disruption and throw off their curve, as they generally can't remove it until turn 2 or 3, at which point you could have emptied your hand of Inquisition of Kozilek targets. Their deck runs a lot of fetches and manlands, which makes a turn 2 Suppression Field one of your strong plays--it can easily buy you a few turns by itself. They'll likely have to start casting their cards off curve or risk having a number of their fetches get locked out for a while if you've drawn multiple Suppression Fields. Early storage lands are also very strong as they let you start building up extra mana, which is important against a deck that is trying to go after your resources. Mid-to-late game Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can also play this role as you fill your board with white devotion. I've discarded lands to Liliana of the Veil before to protect an Enduring Ideal in hand, and then eventually cast my seven drop off of just Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and two other lands while my opponent had to just watch with a pair of inactive Tectonic Edges. Greater Auramancy also generally eats a premium removal spell.
Mid-game you try to lock them out as much as possible with Ensaring Bridge, Ghostly Prison, and Runed Halo. They have to spend removal on each Ensnaring Bridge as their creatures are mostly large enough that, with it on the table, they can make no progress. Liliana even powers it up by letting you discard your clunkers. Ghostly Prison isn't honestly amazing, but it can keep back any souls lingering about, and tax their mana for manlands, especially when combined with Suppression Field. The most important name on Runed Halo is Liliana of the Veil, as her ultimate requires a target. If possible, you want to keep two forms of protection against her on the board--one Leyline of Sanctity and one Runed Halo.
Late-game you simply try to stay alive long enough to land an Enduring Ideal. The 'best' chain, if you have the luxury, is probably Dovescape->Sphere of Safety->Form of the Dragon as this plays around all of their removal. But it does require you to be at a fairly high starting life total. If you're under a lot more pressure than you might go for a chain like Sphere of Safety->Form of the Dragon->Dovescape to make them have multiple removal spells. And if you're on death's door there is always the naked Form of the Dragon pull. They basically can't win if it stays on the table so you can force them to have an immediate answer or lose. (I've pulled Form of the Dragon with no other artifacts or enchantments in play against an active Liliana of the Veil and an army of creatures, and won easily as my opponent didn't immediately have a Maelstrom Pulse or Golgari Charm--my opponent ultimated Liliana and I sac'ed everything but the Form and easily won a few turns later with the Enduring Ideal triggers to lock up the game.
But if you want to improve the Junk matchup, you can. They have a lot of trouble dealing with the enchantments above 3cmc such as Heliod, God of the Sun and Privileged Position, or even Greater Auramancy if you draw them in multiples. You can also get some immediate value by playing a Crucible of Worlds and immediately returning a land from your graveyard, as they have to remove it pretty quickly or risk getting Ghost Quarter locked. If you up the number of copies of Auramancy and bring in a few extra Spheres you can gum up the game and buy yourself a lot of extra time.
And if your meta is slow enough to allow you to ascend to the heavens of the super-durdle, you can switch out some of your non-basics for Plains and play cards like Wurmcoil Engine and Sun Titan alongside Emeria, The Sky Ruin. And for those brave souls who dare to durdle harder than even I have dared durdle before, you could even defy the durdle dieties themselves and open the Secret Technology upon the world.
How do you even handle the Abzan decks? Liliana can put a lot of pressure on the deck, which makes it very hard for me to win. Along with Decays and Pulse, the matchup seems tough. Any ideas how to improve the matchup?
suppression field does a lot of work against abzan. slows down their fetches which they play a lot of, slows down liliana as well.
I am looking to build this deck since it seems that pet deck for the last 6 months is due for the ban hammer (Amulet Titan)
IS the UW version using Remands, Visions etc completely dead? Is the mono-W prison style the only viable Ideal deck now?
amulet won't get the ban hammer, other magic players blow a lot of smoke, look as jeskai ascendency its still legal after everyone said its getting ban hammer.
to be more on topic: I'd keep playing remand, you need to get to 7 lands, cantripping is best way to do this. plus a light blue splash gives you supreme verdict against delver and control decks. thought this current meta doesn't really reflect a need for verdict over any other regular wrath of god
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Another reason i wandered into your thread was I was wondering how if this deck was functional with tron lands?
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I think I want to build the deck and I want to know if Ensnaring Bridge is necessary in the deck? I'm asking because they are about 20$ each and I wouldn't want to buy them if they aren't necessary. And another question: See Beyond is a great card that can gain you some great card advantage and also shuffle away those unnecessary card pieces like Form of the Dragon and Dovescape. What are your opinions about that card and splashing some blue?
ensnaring bridge is good, it helps but it is there for a reason. you don't need see beyond. splashing a second colour makes the mana worse and more inconsistent imo and not needed, you cant play fetches cause of suppression field too. if you draw the combo pieces you want peace of mind, and use mistveil plains to return it to the library. not to mention you also gain 3 life which is important.
i was playtesting with mates last night, and found splinter twin match up was not that favorable. i was struggling beating the spell snares, mana leaks, remands and cryptics. but every other match up this deck seems solid and mostly favorable so long as you know what hands are good to keep. so i guess the sideboard needs help against splinter twin imo, i want room for 2-3 defense grid. i have cut the 2nd greater auramancy, its never really needed and one is enough, and want to cut either the luminarch ascension or a nevermore
i was playtesting with mates last night, and found splinter twin match up was not that favorable. i was struggling beating the spell snares, mana leaks, remands and cryptics. but every other match up this deck seems solid and mostly favorable so long as you know what hands are good to keep. so i guess the sideboard needs help against splinter twin imo, i want room for 2-3 defense grid. i have cut the 2nd greater auramancy, its never really needed and one is enough, and want to cut either the luminarch ascension or a nevermore
would this be a match up you might want angel's grace for from the sideboard?
The way I'm looking at this is if they go for the turn 4 combo, twin will tap out. if angel's grace keeps you alive, then in the following turn, is that a key point in the game that this deck could lock twin combo down down unopposed?
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I'm currently at 14 Plains and 2 Mistveil Plains which seems that Endless Horizons could be a decent addition to the deck as it ramps up to an Enduring Ideal but also improves your chances of drawing action every turn. Is Meishin, the Mind Cage too much of an overkill in the deck as you already have Sphere of Safety and other creature lock down effects?
The idea to use Serum powder to get better mulligans. you want better mulligans cause the deck runs 8 leylines. maybe more depending on the sideboard. Serum powder can also be a mana ramp.
the reason for all of the leylines is to make shrine very powerful if you pull it early.
to capitalize on the leylines and all of the white mana shrine will generate I went with a creature token strategy. leyline of the meek will make 1/1s into 2/2s and so on. Your invested in lingering souls as your early attackers or blockers while your building up to enduring ideal. sacred mesa is in the deck along with Heliod, God of the Sun to make sure token making with out strip any opponent.
Need Help with/need suggestions for the following----
- the last 3 slots at the bottom i'm not certain of what they definitely should be?
- Also Do I have too much ramp?
- do I have the wrong kind of ramp?
- peer through depths seems like the best dig to find enduring ideal.
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I have to question the Ensnaring Bridges..... the deck doesnt seemed designed to empty your hand quickly (most things are CMC 3+). Maybe Adding a few fetchs plus hallowed fountains and replacing the bridges with Verdicts might just be better?
I am really liking this deck, I think I might finish mine up and give it a try again.
Phyrexian Unlife and Porphory Nodes is something I would also want in this type deck, however I don't see how you produce blue mana for Detention Sphere? If not, then it should just be replaced by O-Ring, which is a good card to always have around.
Safewright Quest seems bad in my eyes, but I haven't tried it out yet. The kind of mana ramp I played in my enchantment deck was Trace of Abundance, which firstly ramped, protected your land (where protection your Boseiju could become relevant at some point) and lastly it also works with Nykthos.
made a mistake, the sacred fountain was suppose to be hallowed fountain.
Serum powder is kind of a wierd card for ramp, but getting my leylines is key for my deck to ramp off shrine as its currently constructed.
I have to question the Ensnaring Bridges..... the deck doesnt seemed designed to empty your hand quickly (most things are CMC 3+). Maybe Adding a few fetchs plus hallowed fountains and replacing the bridges with Verdicts might just be better?
I am really liking this deck, I think I might finish mine up and give it a try again.
my concern with bridge has been can't you empty your hand fast enough sometimes, what I'm noticing is peace of mind works great for getting ensnaring bridge set up to shut down all attacks. Problem with peace of mind is it could collide with suppression field. Mistveil Plains seems to solve problem of lost permanents well enough.
I'm on the fence when it comes to suppression field, i feel it really depends on the match up whether it has sufficient value or not. when i just tested against affinity, I think it would have been invaluable.
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(I am getting those second thoughts, I might be half doing an enduring ideal build and half token build, but I've had some decent runs in testing.)
since testing I made these updates.
-having a bit of the struggle with fast aggro, I though Nyx-Fleece Ram might help me with this.
-I cut the blue, peer through depths was redundent[/c] I found myself drawing or mulliganing into enduring ideal just fine. boseiju pushes it through, I seem to pull theExpedition Map consistently enough for geting boseiju. (sideboard I'm running 3 defense grid for counter spell match ups
- Porphyry Nodes plus tokens is bad, takes its effect away from hitting my opponent, moved it to the sideboard, If it comes in I take lingering souls out. sacred mesa's trigger can play around Node by stacking them so that it hits and opponents creature before you generate a token, which you can't do with tokens already made by lingering souls.
- added story circle, nice extra anti aggro card.
- added 1 auramancy as well.
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-peer through depths this one is best option available since we don't have burning wish. that said sideboard wants to capitalize on it, so sorcery or instant solutions to our problem match ups.
-gaze of granite we don't have pernicious deed that said. we can use peer through depths to get to this answer, we can't cycle it with enduring ideal though, huge synergy loss, but I think it can get the job done as a main deck silver bullet.
-serum visions this takes orim's chants spot. true they don't compare in funtion, but I figure more dig is better than nothing. we don't have any turn 1 plays either. Only thing that would compensate for orim's chant is angel's grace that would make this slot essentially a fog. (up side of angel's grace, hive mind's pacts don't kill you!) theres just nothing to get double value that is orim's chant in modern. silence could go there too i suppose for fighting through counter magic.
-Meishin, the Mind Cage not in the current list, but in sideboard. against affinity and tokens, definitely stuff that into the deck games 2 and 3, so you have something to follow up sideboards pyroclasm effects.
-Reverence stops dovescape tokens etc. (stops twin from attacking)
ramp, trying to copy as best i can
-serum powder its a mana ramp, since this version is aiming for combo I kind of think its worth keeping around. If I know i'm going against burn or graveyard decks, mulliganing to leylines can work. the deck runs lotus bloom, another good thing for this spot.
might replace powder with either of these chromatic lanturn decent might go in this spot too at a later time coalition relic can net gain 2 mana in 1 turn.
-lotus bloom finally something that is modern legal.
-gemstone caverns theres no lands in modern that sacrifice and make more than 1 mana, so this unique land might be as close as we can get to lands helping aid in ramp.
Ur-Golem's Eye this could be useful as well. the main reason for it would be to push the mana into 6 mana range. unlike other permanents that ramp it can't be hit by abrupt decay
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the story circles lock up a lot of mana but they hold the line pretty well in between and after supreme verdicts. usually after I've gotten off supreme verdict i've freed my mana up from having to pay into story circle so I can combo out.
ur-golem's eye hasn't come up in testing so far, but its a decent piece of ramp over all.
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I tested the list i posted earlier against griselbrand, green white hatebears, mono green performed pretty well. 2-0 each match.
Nyx-Fleece Ram I like these guys, there a decent hedge against fast aggro and can soak up most midrange decks creatures.
story circle this card's performing really well! It last well against Junk. now sure how it survived, I was expecting to see abrupt decay in that match up.
Circle isn't any solitary confinement but its geting the job done game 1 for me. the match up its useless against is robot/affinity.
Ur-Golem's Eye performs good in testing as well, shows up and pushes me into 6 mana following turn I can uaually combo out with a land drop or a ramping off shrine for my 7th mana. seething song would be more desirable cause of the red mana, but this performs just fine.
against Hatebears does suppression field cause them to stall? I was thinking of sideboarding this for them.
I run it currently in sideboard spots set aside for splinter twin decks.
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Wall of omens seems decent to smooth out draws and block the things that get through prison. Heliod as a win-condition seems a bit meager though. Although the enchantment making works nicely with sphere of safety, it's creature making doesn't work well with suppression field. If Heliod gets pathed you're also sour.
Ensnaring bridge without Peace of Mind also seems suboptimal.
Are Flagstones of Trokair actually worth running btw? The deck thinning part can be actually harmful if you want to draw lands. It also makes you more susceptible to Blood Moon.
Wall of omens seems decent to smooth out draws and block the things that get through prison. Heliod as a win-condition seems a bit meager though. Although the enchantment making works nicely with sphere of safety, it's creature making doesn't work well with suppression field. If Heliod gets pathed you're also sour.
Ensnaring bridge without Peace of Mind also seems suboptimal.
Are Flagstones of Trokair actually worth running btw? The deck thinning part can be actually harmful if you want to draw lands. It also makes you more susceptible to Blood Moon.
I would definitely NOT recommend running Heliod as your only win condition, because if it gets Path to Exiled, you can't win. Just run Form of the Dragon instead. I've completely cut the Suppression Fields since they also messed up my deck, but at the same didn't do anything worthwhile against decks like Abzan and Twin. If you want to run Wall of Omens, then I'd not run Porphyry Nodes since your Wall is the first one to go, but as the current metagame is, I wouldn't want to cut Porphyry Nodes (I'm running 2 maindeck and another 1 in SB).
I haven't tested Flagstones, but I don't think it's necessary. I'm also running 5 scry land which helps me filtering my deck and would recommend running them.
A little confused by your statements here.
Heliod is a safe win condition if you put it into player after you put Dovescape into play.
How is Suppression field not good against Abzan or Twin? Abzan get congested on fetches, lily activations, and a few other things - not great but not worthless, and against Twin they can't combo off until they remove the enchantment, it also ties up their 8 fetches and lavamancers.
I reckon the flagstones are actually quite good in that they find mistveil plains easily. They are also pseudo-card advantage when you have enough lands and don't want to draw new ones.
Im building this deck to play in some modern fnms soon. Only after the prerelease though
I don't think Myth Realized is good in the mainboard of this deck. Rayolun's list completely blanks creature removal. Myth Realized also is not impressive with suppression field and ensnaring bridge. It also does not really help you lock out your opponent, and its clock will be decently slow. If you draw it after casting your enchantments it also takes quite some time to get online.
It could be a sideboard card, assuming that people will board out creature removal against you? At most I think...
Brainstorming a bit here. Tinkering around with Rayoolun's list, it feels like we need a bit more wincon in here. Too frequently I don't draw enduring ideal/dovescape, and my opponent gets through 2/3 damage a turn and i lose.
Theres two ways to have more wincons:
Deck selection/card draw. without splashing i just see wall of omens as an option here. Don't like this too much as it turns on removal ever so slightly. On the splash serum visions or cards like tormenting voice are an option... But i dont like the idea of splashing for early digging cards that clog up your mana. The scry lands help a bit, technically they reduce your deck=size to 56 for finding ideal, the deck thinning with GQ/trokair helps a slight bit.
Another way is to add more wincons. I stole an idea from the rw prison thread. We could play assemble the legion. Its slow, given, but after 1 turn you generate blockers. They also go under ensnaring bridge. Also searchable with Idillyc tutor, and it even adds a pip devotion. A red splash is also less bad when you get blood mooned. Luminarch's ascension is in rayolun's board, but this doesn't work if you get nickle and dimed, and it takes a while to set up. Sphinx's revelation perhaps? We make a boat ton of mana to cast it. We already play bosejiu to get ideal to resolve. Opponents nickle and dime us to death so the lifegain is super relevant. Its expensive, but not horrendous to just cast for 5. Its also an instant to bait counters. its also fun to cast into a resolved dovescape.
Drawbacks: 2 blue cc so it's impossible to cast. It also doesnt play as well with ensnaring bridge. Ajani Vengeant is an option. Taxes your opponents mana, lifegain/removal in a pinch, and it's ultimate usually finishes the game. It's very splashable/castable. Still, Planeswalkers and suppression field kinda suck, although it's possible we do not care too much here.
For now, I changed a sphere to an assemble the legion. Cutting a plains for a sacred foundry (searchable with trokair). Gives gives me around 88% to hit a red source by turn 5 (Possibly add a single mountain? Unsure about this). I also cut the greater auramancy mainboard for an Idillyc Tutor. With this you can search and play a porphyry nodes for 4, runed halo/supp field for 5, and it functions as a 2nd assemble. Not counting dovescape, this cranks up the win conditions from 4 to 6. By turn 7, with a 56 card deck (scry) and 4 win cons, youll draw one 72%. With 6 win cons this goes up to 86%!
I've recently been toying around with the idea that there are more or less 2 ways to win a game of Magic: attack your opponent to death, or target your opponent to death. Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety more or less stop the former, and Leyline of Sanctity stops the latter, so I've been trying to mash them together to make a spectacularly hateful deck. I finally brewed together a 60 (no sideboard yet) and came to the forums to share my creation, until I found that the deck more or less already exists.
I'm trying to keep the deck mono-White, so please keep that in mind.
A few things I'm not convinced of:
1. I'm unsure between Oblivion Ring and Gitaxian Probe. O-Ring serves as a universal answer to any sort of problem non-land permanent; Probe synergizes well with Runed Halo and Nevermore while drawing us to what we want. My initial thought was to run the Probes main then side them out since by then you'll know what you're up against, but I keep going back and forth.
2. The win condition. It looks like the typical win con is Form of the Dragon, but I'd prefer a White enchantment win con so that I can cast it for devotion/put pressure on in the earlier stages of the game while I find an Enduring Ideal. The only ones I can think of are Myth Realized (not crazy about it since I'm not running sweepers to clear the path, and will get Path'ed), Heliod, God of the Sun (same issues as Myth Realized), and Luminarch Ascension (still not perfect, but the best of the 3 for what I'm trying to do). I'm also aware of Near-Death Experience and Barren Glory but I don't see a realistic way of satisfying those conditions.
Does anyone else run a fully mono-White list, and if so, what win-con are you going with? Thanks!
I've recently been toying around with the idea that there are more or less 2 ways to win a game of Magic: attack your opponent to death, or target your opponent to death. Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety more or less stop the former, and Leyline of Sanctity stops the latter, so I've been trying to mash them together to make a spectacularly hateful deck. I finally brewed together a 60 (no sideboard yet) and came to the forums to share my creation, until I found that the deck more or less already exists.
I'm trying to keep the deck mono-White, so please keep that in mind.
A few things I'm not convinced of:
1. I'm unsure between Oblivion Ring and Gitaxian Probe. O-Ring serves as a universal answer to any sort of problem non-land permanent; Probe synergizes well with Runed Halo and Nevermore while drawing us to what we want. My initial thought was to run the Probes main then side them out since by then you'll know what you're up against, but I keep going back and forth.
2. The win condition. It looks like the typical win con is Form of the Dragon, but I'd prefer a White enchantment win con so that I can cast it for devotion/put pressure on in the earlier stages of the game while I find an Enduring Ideal. The only ones I can think of are Myth Realized (not crazy about it since I'm not running sweepers to clear the path, and will get Path'ed), Heliod, God of the Sun (same issues as Myth Realized), and Luminarch Ascension (still not perfect, but the best of the 3 for what I'm trying to do). I'm also aware of Near-Death Experience and Barren Glory but I don't see a realistic way of satisfying those conditions.
Does anyone else run a fully mono-White list, and if so, what win-con are you going with? Thanks!
1. Pulling at least 1 O. Ring may be good, but I'd keep at least one maindeck. Back in the Pod days, being able to tutor for O. Ring with Enduring Ideal to keep them from eventually blowing up other lock pieces with creatures tutored for by Birthing Pod was crucial. Even though those days are now behind us, O. Ring is still good at sitting on permanents that would otherwise blow up lock pieces (so, if you're up against Qasali Pridemage, tutor for O. Ring or Greater Auramancy first, and if you're up against Karn Liberated or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, definitely tutor for O. Ring first).
I can't say I'm the master (LOL) but I can answer some questions about card choices.
First, about Wheel of Sun and Moon: I would play one in the board (probably over a Nevermore) if the interaction with Enduring Ideal worked online. Having a fairly powerful graveyard hate card can be quite strong in some matchups, but that's really the icing on the cake. The card's true purpose is to act as an additional win-con (with it you can natural-mill your opponents out once you've locked the game down) that lets you play around hate cards such as Rest in Peace, Blood Moon, and Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge on your Mistveil Plains. The deck only runs 1 copy of most of the important lock pieces--and very few win conditions--so drawing them while Epic-locked can make you instantly lose the game.
Next, I'd have to say the 1-of Expedition Map has served me pretty well. It's a second Boseiju, Who Shelters All against the counterspell decks, an extraNykthos, Shrine to Nyx or storange land against the fair decks, or a Ghost Quarter against the land-based combo deck. The deck doesn't have very many good 1 mana plays, so the first map ends up being very good. That said, it is definitely not a combo with Suppression Field or Stony Silence, and having multiples can make your draws extremely slow. I didn't think I would like the card when I first tried it, but it has performed better for me than the 27th land. It also helps power up the Crucible of Worlds.
ZeroForeverTRA is right that the Confiscate is for Tron. I've found Tron to be the deck's worst matchup in part because they can prevent you from establishing a lock by committing multiple pro-active answers to the board (such as Karn Liberated AND an Oblivion Stone) or by playing one and sandbagging a sweeper (such as All is Dust) in hand. Confiscate lets you take their Karn Liberated to cut them off Tron or remove their second on-board answer, or restart the game (hopefully with a few good lock pieces in play) if they've already ticked him up to the ultimate. Volition Reins is strictly better if you're only tutoring the card out with Enduring Ideal, but I went with Confiscate to make it easier to cast off of Calciform Pools (which I have indeed done before) as I'm generally only stealing Planeswalkers anyway.
The scry lands have been pretty good as the deck doesn't have many good 1-drop plays, as ZeroForeverTRA mentioned. Temples of Triumph also give you a way to hardcast Form of the Dragon eventually. (Which sounds silly, but it lets you eventually empty the Form of the Dragon out of your hand for Ensaring Bridge if you've Dovescape-locked the game as you wait for your Boseiju, Who Shelters All, or win against extraction effects). They are also, importantly, full white sources (as opposed to storage lands or Nykthos) so they can make casting early [CARD=Runed Halo]Runed Halo easier. They also protect your other lands to some extent as they are enormous magnets for destruction (as opponents will put in a surprising amount of effort to cut you off of your presumed second color). That said, I wouldn't go overboard as you're already pretty slow and you already probably running some number of tapped lands in Mistveil Plains and Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
The storage lands are also very, very good in the deck. They shine against the slower decks where they help you gain a mana-advantage against decks with counters, or build up the mana to cast an Enduring Ideal against decks relying on resource-denial. They also just frequently give you something valuable to do with your mana on turns where you otherwise wouldn't be doing anything (because you've already emptied your hand, or you're saving up your cards for one big turn against decks with counters). They're frequently better mana-accelerants than Nytkhos, Shrine to Nyx against decks with a lot of removal for your devotion, or after mulls. They even come in to play untapped. That said, their biggest downside is that they do not immediately tap for white making some cards that you need to drop early harder to cast. And in all but the slowest matchups the second storange land tends to be worse than the first. I would run a lot more of them if I could, but I've had to concede some of the colorless-mana source space to Ghost Quarters as Tron and Amulet Bloom are definitely a thing.
I added a second Nevermore to the board because I wanted some additional combo hate. I'm not married to the slot and I think substituting an Aura of Silence as you've suggested (and as I've run in the past) is quite reasonable. I've still never lived the dream of exiling every non-land permanent from my opponent's board (by alternately fetching Aura of Silence and Oblivion Ring and sac'ing the Aura to kill the Ring with the Ring's trigger on the stack before recycling both to the bottom of the library with Mistveil Plains) as sadly Form of the Dragon tends to win too quickly once you've gone Epic.
I really like the second Sphere of Safety, and I was playing two before I tried out the crucibles. (Overall I thought the maindeck crucible too slow). Sphere is almost a finisher in its own right Game 1 against a lot of the aggro decks, it dodges Inquisition of Kozilek and Abrupt Decay, and it is an additional way to stop the Twin combo. It's also an excellent tutor target, and there are many situations where it can be the best card in your library to get. (There are also a lot of situations in which grabbing one or two can buy you the time you need to set up Peace of Mind+Mistveil Plains to rescue the lock piece you really want from your hand). So it fills a pretty good middle-ground between your early interaction and lockdown cards and the seven-mana Enduring Ideal.
As for whether the UW / UWR version is still viable--I can't say, I've never played the deck. But I am a firm believer that Enduring Ideal is an extremely strong finisher in this format, so if they can reliably find the card and cast it early with protection, I expect the deck is actually quite good. You'll need somebody more experienced in playing combo in Modern to tell you whether the early game is reasonable or not.
On a side note, I spoke with one of the forum Mods and I'm going to be writing a primer for the Mono-White version of the deck, so we'll soon have our own thread and then we can move our discussion over there.
EDIT: My long post with analysis and recent matchups got deleted somehow
Anyway my local game shop has dubbed this deck "Pillow Fort" because of the ridiculous amount of white enchantments on the board by the time the game ends. I think it's pretty funny
1x Dovescape
1x Form of the Dragon
4x Ghostly Prison
1x Greater Auramancy
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Peace of Mind
1x Phyrexian Unlife
2x Porphyry Nodes
4x Runed Halo
2x Sphere of Safety
4x Suppression Field
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4x Flagstones of Trokair
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Mistveil Plains
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
8x Plains
2x Saltcrusted Steppe
4x Temple of Triumph
Artifact (4)
3x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Expedition Map
Sorcery (4)
4x Enduring Ideal
1x Aura of Silence
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Greater Auramancy
1x Luminarch Ascension
2x Nevermore
2x Porphyry Nodes
1x Rule of Law
3x Silence
3x Stony Silence
only a 3 round tournament at the lgs cause only 8 people turned up being that its a long weekend. however managed to go 3-0 and was very impressed with how the deck performed. suppression field really amazed me at how much work it does against all the fetch lands and man lands.
round 1
grixis control which i won 2-1,
i lost first round mostly because main board against control you have a lot of dead cards!, it was close but it was a battle, losing to snapcaster beat downs and cryptics value was rough.
side board i took out the 2x nodes, 4 ghostly prison, and 3 ensnaring bridge and i brought in 1x crucible of worlds, 1x luminarch ascension, 2x nevermore, 3x silence and although they arent great but i brought in greater auramancy so he couldnt bounce things with cryptic and aura of silence cause of possible batterksull and a keranos that i saw game 1 and anything else.
game 2
i have a good hand with halo's, land and 2x nevermore, halo's naming thoughtseize and nevermore naming cryptic and slaughter games. we then play draw go for a while and i put in some other enchantments like field and leyline, i draw enduring ideal and have a silence in hand, i have a nykthos so at this point i have 10+ mana from it, silence gets remanded so i play it again and it resolves, play ideal search dovescape and opponent scoops.
game 3
i keep a hand with not much to do, 4 land - 2 being storage lands and double leyline and ideal, seems great against him so i keep. starting the game with double leyline and my opponent lets out a big sigh and already i feel like i got this, this game showcases how good the storage lands were, i play my lands and focus on trying to stack my storage lands, i get one to 3 and the other to 1 counter when my opponent taps out to play olivia voldaren on turn 4 and im doing math and figure out that when i can win off my turn 4 ideal thanks to the storage land having 3 counters search up dove, then sphere, then dragon.
round 2
im up against my mate who is on the death shadow 4c aggro deck (2-0)
i have seen the potential of this deck and can win turn 2 but usually 3-4 when goldfishing. so game 1 i know what i need and find a great hand of prison, field, halo, 3x land and dovescape. dovescape not ideal but i will defs take this 7, this one gets close at one point im down to 3 but eventually get peace of mind and ensnaring bridge, but im limited with my peace of mind activations thanks to the suppression field, but it also stunts him as all of his lands are mostly fetchlands so he struggles to attack and get mana to fetch. then drop a sphere and he knows how my decks goes and he knows its over so we go to game 2,
i sideboard out boseiju, greater auramancy, and a enduring ideal and bring in crucible, and 2 nodes.
game 2
i keep a sketchy 1 land hand, but with a node, peace of mind, bridge, crucible, flagstones, o ring, and ghostly prison. i figure im on the draw and i already have a way to deal with early creatures so i keep and sure enough i rip lands and turn 1 node against turn 1 creature forces them to skip a turn and then cast peace of mind, then prison and crucible in to ghost quartering his land and he says he has no basics and he scoops after a turn as i got full control of the game now. after this round and how this deck dealt with pure aggro im really seeing the power of this deck! its amazing.
round 3
im up against bw tokens and win 2-0
game one was close, i start with a leyline since i know he is on tokens and he plays his tokens and monastery mentor and i have prison out, so he keeps casting spells only to pump his mentor and pay for it getting in. i get down to 6 life before i cast halo naming mentor. my boseiju gets me to 2 life and i cast ideal and search up sphere since it means he cant attack, all im hoping for is that he doesnt have and o-ring effect and i lose, i manage to survive and get dovescope, in to form of the dragon, in to phyrexian unlife.
i sideboard out 3 ensnaring bridge since i dont see its potential against tokens, and take out a suppresion field as he is only on 2 colours and wont play many fetches. and bring in 1 aura of silence for his anthems and possible o-ring, and 1 greater auramancy for any possible sb hate, and 2 nodes.
game 2
i kept 3 land (double scry lands and a basic) double ideal, halo and suppression. relatively good against thoughtseize so i keep, i scry a expedition map to the top, then play and crack it for a nykthos when i can so i can then play my suppression field after. not so much pressure from my opponent playing double virtue in to lingering souls and a thoughtseize taking halo. i eventually play a turn 6 ideal of nykthos. and search up dovescope in to sphere in to unlife in to dragon to be safe.
so that is probs as close to what i remember of the games. but the deck really seems awesome. there isn't too many enchantment hate out there, and with the variety of decks out their now, its harder for people to allocate slots that actually wreck this deck, such as fracturing gust etc. but even then you can still win the turn or two after with ideal. the scry lands are a excellent addition to the deck. helps put away the many cards you dont need such as excess land, enduring ideals if you don't need a second and also all the combo enchantments. the storage lands are awkward with suppression field same with expedition map but at this point i can live with it, but if i was to replace them it would defs be a scry land or two, they were just so good for the deck. the peace of mind really is great against aggro even if you just discard to gain life but also going well with ensnaring bridge is a bonus. but other then that the deck was solid and felt like a true control deck in the form of enchantments
I've found the matchup against the newer "Little Kid" Abzan deck to actually be decently favorable for the list above, while the matchup against the older, more black heavy lists tends to be slightly unfavorable (although I'm not sure it's too far from even). A lot of the time it comes down to who topdecks better. Unlike a lot of the decks in the format they have a lot of removal for your cards, but they also don't kill that quickly and you have a lot of cards they really want to remove. Your gameplan is to try to exhaust their good removal while building up the resources to land an Enduring Ideal, after which, depending on the exact board state, will either instantly win or force them to immediately have Maelstrom Pulse or Golgari Charm to not lose on the spot.
Your best cards against them early game buy you time and protect your resources. A turn 0 Leyline of Sanctity can blank their early hand disruption and throw off their curve, as they generally can't remove it until turn 2 or 3, at which point you could have emptied your hand of Inquisition of Kozilek targets. Their deck runs a lot of fetches and manlands, which makes a turn 2 Suppression Field one of your strong plays--it can easily buy you a few turns by itself. They'll likely have to start casting their cards off curve or risk having a number of their fetches get locked out for a while if you've drawn multiple Suppression Fields. Early storage lands are also very strong as they let you start building up extra mana, which is important against a deck that is trying to go after your resources. Mid-to-late game Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can also play this role as you fill your board with white devotion. I've discarded lands to Liliana of the Veil before to protect an Enduring Ideal in hand, and then eventually cast my seven drop off of just Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and two other lands while my opponent had to just watch with a pair of inactive Tectonic Edges. Greater Auramancy also generally eats a premium removal spell.
Mid-game you try to lock them out as much as possible with Ensaring Bridge, Ghostly Prison, and Runed Halo. They have to spend removal on each Ensnaring Bridge as their creatures are mostly large enough that, with it on the table, they can make no progress. Liliana even powers it up by letting you discard your clunkers. Ghostly Prison isn't honestly amazing, but it can keep back any souls lingering about, and tax their mana for manlands, especially when combined with Suppression Field. The most important name on Runed Halo is Liliana of the Veil, as her ultimate requires a target. If possible, you want to keep two forms of protection against her on the board--one Leyline of Sanctity and one Runed Halo.
Late-game you simply try to stay alive long enough to land an Enduring Ideal. The 'best' chain, if you have the luxury, is probably Dovescape->Sphere of Safety->Form of the Dragon as this plays around all of their removal. But it does require you to be at a fairly high starting life total. If you're under a lot more pressure than you might go for a chain like Sphere of Safety->Form of the Dragon->Dovescape to make them have multiple removal spells. And if you're on death's door there is always the naked Form of the Dragon pull. They basically can't win if it stays on the table so you can force them to have an immediate answer or lose. (I've pulled Form of the Dragon with no other artifacts or enchantments in play against an active Liliana of the Veil and an army of creatures, and won easily as my opponent didn't immediately have a Maelstrom Pulse or Golgari Charm--my opponent ultimated Liliana and I sac'ed everything but the Form and easily won a few turns later with the Enduring Ideal triggers to lock up the game.
But if you want to improve the Junk matchup, you can. They have a lot of trouble dealing with the enchantments above 3cmc such as Heliod, God of the Sun and Privileged Position, or even Greater Auramancy if you draw them in multiples. You can also get some immediate value by playing a Crucible of Worlds and immediately returning a land from your graveyard, as they have to remove it pretty quickly or risk getting Ghost Quarter locked. If you up the number of copies of Auramancy and bring in a few extra Spheres you can gum up the game and buy yourself a lot of extra time.
And if your meta is slow enough to allow you to ascend to the heavens of the super-durdle, you can switch out some of your non-basics for Plains and play cards like Wurmcoil Engine and Sun Titan alongside Emeria, The Sky Ruin. And for those brave souls who dare to durdle harder than even I have dared durdle before, you could even defy the durdle dieties themselves and open the Secret Technology upon the world.
suppression field does a lot of work against abzan. slows down their fetches which they play a lot of, slows down liliana as well.
amulet won't get the ban hammer, other magic players blow a lot of smoke, look as jeskai ascendency its still legal after everyone said its getting ban hammer.
to be more on topic: I'd keep playing remand, you need to get to 7 lands, cantripping is best way to do this. plus a light blue splash gives you supreme verdict against delver and control decks. thought this current meta doesn't really reflect a need for verdict over any other regular wrath of god
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Another reason i wandered into your thread was I was wondering how if this deck was functional with tron lands?
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ensnaring bridge is good, it helps but it is there for a reason. you don't need see beyond. splashing a second colour makes the mana worse and more inconsistent imo and not needed, you cant play fetches cause of suppression field too. if you draw the combo pieces you want peace of mind, and use mistveil plains to return it to the library. not to mention you also gain 3 life which is important.
would this be a match up you might want angel's grace for from the sideboard?
The way I'm looking at this is if they go for the turn 4 combo, twin will tap out. if angel's grace keeps you alive, then in the following turn, is that a key point in the game that this deck could lock twin combo down down unopposed?
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Meishin is too risky, especially when Phyrexian Unlife also combos with Form of the Dragon to stifle attacks for basically forever.
The idea to use Serum powder to get better mulligans. you want better mulligans cause the deck runs 8 leylines. maybe more depending on the sideboard. Serum powder can also be a mana ramp.
the reason for all of the leylines is to make shrine very powerful if you pull it early.
to capitalize on the leylines and all of the white mana shrine will generate I went with a creature token strategy. leyline of the meek will make 1/1s into 2/2s and so on. Your invested in lingering souls as your early attackers or blockers while your building up to enduring ideal. sacred mesa is in the deck along with Heliod, God of the Sun to make sure token making with out strip any opponent.
Need Help with/need suggestions for the following----
- the last 3 slots at the bottom i'm not certain of what they definitely should be?
- Also Do I have too much ramp?
- do I have the wrong kind of ramp?
- peer through depths seems like the best dig to find enduring ideal.
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Mistveil Plains
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 godless shrine
2 hallowed fountain
9 plains
4 serum powder
3 Expedition Map
3 Safewright Quest
4 peer through depths
4 enduring ideal
4 lingering souls
2 Sacred Mesa
1 form of the dragon
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 leyline of sanctity
4 leyline of the meek
4 ghostly prison
1 Sphere of Safety
1 phyrexian unlife
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Detention Sphere
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I have to question the Ensnaring Bridges..... the deck doesnt seemed designed to empty your hand quickly (most things are CMC 3+). Maybe Adding a few fetchs plus hallowed fountains and replacing the bridges with Verdicts might just be better?
I am really liking this deck, I think I might finish mine up and give it a try again.
made a mistake, the sacred fountain was suppose to be hallowed fountain.
Serum powder is kind of a wierd card for ramp, but getting my leylines is key for my deck to ramp off shrine as its currently constructed.
In serums powder's place though, chromatic lanturn looked interesting, that way once I hit 7 mana I can hard cast form of the dragon, Meishin, the Mind Cage instead of solely relying on enduring ideal
my concern with bridge has been can't you empty your hand fast enough sometimes, what I'm noticing is peace of mind works great for getting ensnaring bridge set up to shut down all attacks. Problem with peace of mind is it could collide with suppression field. Mistveil Plains seems to solve problem of lost permanents well enough.
I'm on the fence when it comes to suppression field, i feel it really depends on the match up whether it has sufficient value or not. when i just tested against affinity, I think it would have been invaluable.
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(I am getting those second thoughts, I might be half doing an enduring ideal build and half token build, but I've had some decent runs in testing.)
since testing I made these updates.
-having a bit of the struggle with fast aggro, I though Nyx-Fleece Ram might help me with this.
-I cut the blue, peer through depths was redundent[/c] I found myself drawing or mulliganing into enduring ideal just fine. boseiju pushes it through, I seem to pull theExpedition Map consistently enough for geting boseiju. (sideboard I'm running 3 defense grid for counter spell match ups
- Porphyry Nodes plus tokens is bad, takes its effect away from hitting my opponent, moved it to the sideboard, If it comes in I take lingering souls out. sacred mesa's trigger can play around Node by stacking them so that it hits and opponents creature before you generate a token, which you can't do with tokens already made by lingering souls.
- added story circle, nice extra anti aggro card.
- added 1 auramancy as well.
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Mistveil Plains
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 godless shrine
11 plains
4 serum powder
4 Expedition Map
4 enduring ideal
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 lingering souls
2 Sacred Mesa
1 form of the dragon
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 leyline of sanctity
4 leyline of the meek
4 ghostly prison
2 Sphere of Safety
1 phyrexian unlife
1 oblivion ring
1 peace of mind
1 story circle
1 Greater Auramancy
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Mueller's list http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=3856&iddeck=22538
I explain the card swaps below
4 enduring ideal
4 peer through depths
3 serum vision
1 gaze of granite
3 supreme verdict
3 form of the dragon
2 dovescape
4 leyline of sanctity
1 honden of seeing winds
1 Reverence
4 serum powder
4 lotus bloom
4 pentad prism
2 gemstone caverns
4 city of brass
4 hallowed fountain
4 sacred foundry
4 flooded strand
4 plains
card choices:
-peer through depths this one is best option available since we don't have burning wish. that said sideboard wants to capitalize on it, so sorcery or instant solutions to our problem match ups.
-gaze of granite we don't have pernicious deed
-serum visions this takes orim's chants spot. true they don't compare in funtion, but I figure more dig is better than nothing. we don't have any turn 1 plays either. Only thing that would compensate for orim's chant is angel's grace that would make this slot essentially a fog. (up side of angel's grace, hive mind's pacts don't kill you!) theres just nothing to get double value that is orim's chant in modern. silence could go there too i suppose for fighting through counter magic.
-supreme verdict we don't have solitary confinement to hide behind so, smashing creatures in essential. upside of this choice is we can dig for it with peer through depths
-sensei's divining top obviously nothing in modern replaces this.
thats two enchantments moved to the sorcery slots
-leyline of sanctity kill burn, stops discard effects. Its no solitary confinement but better in the main than in the sideboard I think. especially since this version depends on form of the dragon.
-Meishin, the Mind Cage not in the current list, but in sideboard. against affinity and tokens, definitely stuff that into the deck games 2 and 3, so you have something to follow up sideboards pyroclasm effects.
-dovescape not sure if this should stay in the deck, opponents making 1/1 flyers bothers me. but the game should be over shortly after you land it to lock up the game any ways.
worse case scenario Archetype of Imagination next to form of the dragon, doomwake giant or Reverence. I think tokens with dovescape might have been managed by cycling pernicious deed with enduring ideal?
-Reverence stops dovescape tokens etc. (stops twin from attacking)
ramp, trying to copy as best i can
-serum powder its a mana ramp, since this version is aiming for combo I kind of think its worth keeping around. If I know i'm going against burn or graveyard decks, mulliganing to leylines can work. the deck runs lotus bloom, another good thing for this spot.
might replace powder with either of these
chromatic lanturn decent might go in this spot too at a later time
coalition relic can net gain 2 mana in 1 turn.
-lotus bloom finally something that is modern legal.
-pentad prism mana ramps for any color.
-gemstone caverns theres no lands in modern that sacrifice and make more than 1 mana, so this unique land might be as close as we can get to lands helping aid in ramp.
Sidenote:
Mana Seism might compensate for lack of seething song
Ur-Golem's Eye this could be useful as well. the main reason for it would be to push the mana into 6 mana range. unlike other permanents that ramp it can't be hit by abrupt decay
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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I was thinking of faithless looting combo enchantments, hope to draw into lands and disruption and once at 6 mana empty the vaults to try and win?
changed my deck up some more, i'm more committed to the big enchantment combos now than the enchantment build up.
4 peer through depths
4 enduring ideal
3 supreme verdict
4 Ur-Golem's Eye
4 lotus bloom
4 pentad prism
4 Expedition Map
2 form of the dragon
1 dovescape
1 detention sphere
1 Reverence
3 story circle
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
20 land
the story circles lock up a lot of mana but they hold the line pretty well in between and after supreme verdicts. usually after I've gotten off supreme verdict i've freed my mana up from having to pay into story circle so I can combo out.
ur-golem's eye hasn't come up in testing so far, but its a decent piece of ramp over all.
cut down on Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in the mainboard, they are only useful if I've hard cast form of the dragon and need to cast second form of the dragon.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Nyx-Fleece Ram I like these guys, there a decent hedge against fast aggro and can soak up most midrange decks creatures.
story circle this card's performing really well! It last well against Junk. now sure how it survived, I was expecting to see abrupt decay in that match up.
Circle isn't any solitary confinement but its geting the job done game 1 for me. the match up its useless against is robot/affinity.
Ur-Golem's Eye performs good in testing as well, shows up and pushes me into 6 mana following turn I can uaually combo out with a land drop or a ramping off shrine for my 7th mana. seething song would be more desirable cause of the red mana, but this performs just fine.
against Hatebears does suppression field cause them to stall? I was thinking of sideboarding this for them.
I run it currently in sideboard spots set aside for splinter twin decks.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/271167#paper
Wall of omens seems decent to smooth out draws and block the things that get through prison. Heliod as a win-condition seems a bit meager though. Although the enchantment making works nicely with sphere of safety, it's creature making doesn't work well with suppression field. If Heliod gets pathed you're also sour.
Ensnaring bridge without Peace of Mind also seems suboptimal.
Are Flagstones of Trokair actually worth running btw? The deck thinning part can be actually harmful if you want to draw lands. It also makes you more susceptible to Blood Moon.
A little confused by your statements here.
Heliod is a safe win condition if you put it into player after you put Dovescape into play.
How is Suppression field not good against Abzan or Twin? Abzan get congested on fetches, lily activations, and a few other things - not great but not worthless, and against Twin they can't combo off until they remove the enchantment, it also ties up their 8 fetches and lavamancers.
Im building this deck to play in some modern fnms soon. Only after the prerelease though
It could be a sideboard card, assuming that people will board out creature removal against you? At most I think...
For 4 mana, I actually think I'd rather run the Ajani ;p
Theres two ways to have more wincons:
Deck selection/card draw. without splashing i just see wall of omens as an option here. Don't like this too much as it turns on removal ever so slightly. On the splash serum visions or cards like tormenting voice are an option... But i dont like the idea of splashing for early digging cards that clog up your mana. The scry lands help a bit, technically they reduce your deck=size to 56 for finding ideal, the deck thinning with GQ/trokair helps a slight bit.
Another way is to add more wincons. I stole an idea from the rw prison thread. We could play assemble the legion. Its slow, given, but after 1 turn you generate blockers. They also go under ensnaring bridge. Also searchable with Idillyc tutor, and it even adds a pip devotion. A red splash is also less bad when you get blood mooned.
Luminarch's ascension is in rayolun's board, but this doesn't work if you get nickle and dimed, and it takes a while to set up.
Sphinx's revelation perhaps? We make a boat ton of mana to cast it. We already play bosejiu to get ideal to resolve. Opponents nickle and dime us to death so the lifegain is super relevant. Its expensive, but not horrendous to just cast for 5. Its also an instant to bait counters. its also fun to cast into a resolved dovescape.
Drawbacks: 2 blue cc so it's impossible to cast. It also doesnt play as well with ensnaring bridge.
Ajani Vengeant is an option. Taxes your opponents mana, lifegain/removal in a pinch, and it's ultimate usually finishes the game. It's very splashable/castable. Still, Planeswalkers and suppression field kinda suck, although it's possible we do not care too much here.
For now, I changed a sphere to an assemble the legion. Cutting a plains for a sacred foundry (searchable with trokair). Gives gives me around 88% to hit a red source by turn 5 (Possibly add a single mountain? Unsure about this). I also cut the greater auramancy mainboard for an Idillyc Tutor. With this you can search and play a porphyry nodes for 4, runed halo/supp field for 5, and it functions as a 2nd assemble. Not counting dovescape, this cranks up the win conditions from 4 to 6. By turn 7, with a 56 card deck (scry) and 4 win cons, youll draw one 72%. With 6 win cons this goes up to 86%!
I've recently been toying around with the idea that there are more or less 2 ways to win a game of Magic: attack your opponent to death, or target your opponent to death. Ghostly Prison and Sphere of Safety more or less stop the former, and Leyline of Sanctity stops the latter, so I've been trying to mash them together to make a spectacularly hateful deck. I finally brewed together a 60 (no sideboard yet) and came to the forums to share my creation, until I found that the deck more or less already exists.
Here's the 60 I'm looking at:
14 Plains
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Mistveil Plains
Sorceries
4 Enduring Ideal
3 Porphyry Nodes
4 Runed Halo
4 Suppression Field
2 Luminarch Ascension
1 Greater Auramancy
4 Ghostly Prison
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Nevermore
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Sphere of Safety
1 Privileged Position
1 Dovescape
I'm trying to keep the deck mono-White, so please keep that in mind.
A few things I'm not convinced of:
1. I'm unsure between Oblivion Ring and Gitaxian Probe. O-Ring serves as a universal answer to any sort of problem non-land permanent; Probe synergizes well with Runed Halo and Nevermore while drawing us to what we want. My initial thought was to run the Probes main then side them out since by then you'll know what you're up against, but I keep going back and forth.
2. The win condition. It looks like the typical win con is Form of the Dragon, but I'd prefer a White enchantment win con so that I can cast it for devotion/put pressure on in the earlier stages of the game while I find an Enduring Ideal. The only ones I can think of are Myth Realized (not crazy about it since I'm not running sweepers to clear the path, and will get Path'ed), Heliod, God of the Sun (same issues as Myth Realized), and Luminarch Ascension (still not perfect, but the best of the 3 for what I'm trying to do). I'm also aware of Near-Death Experience and Barren Glory but I don't see a realistic way of satisfying those conditions.
Does anyone else run a fully mono-White list, and if so, what win-con are you going with? Thanks!
1. Pulling at least 1 O. Ring may be good, but I'd keep at least one maindeck. Back in the Pod days, being able to tutor for O. Ring with Enduring Ideal to keep them from eventually blowing up other lock pieces with creatures tutored for by Birthing Pod was crucial. Even though those days are now behind us, O. Ring is still good at sitting on permanents that would otherwise blow up lock pieces (so, if you're up against Qasali Pridemage, tutor for O. Ring or Greater Auramancy first, and if you're up against Karn Liberated or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, definitely tutor for O. Ring first).
2. Other mono-white enchantments that eventually win the game include Sacred Mesa (Abrupt Decay-weak, just like Luminarch Ascension), Mastery of the Unseen (Decay-weak and just might threaten to deck you before you kill them), and Rise of the Hobgoblins (one-shot token maker).