T3 Goblin Chieftain into T4 Krenko can finish a game, but I'm thinking of dropping him for two more Hellriders. Without a Chieftain on the board he's just too slow.
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I don't see many mono-red lists here. I know you're more open to hate cards running just one color. More good reasons to splash?
My current list is quite quick (at least in testing). I've tried splashing black, and felt it slowed my down a bit. Any opinion on the speed of mono-red vs. red-black?
Read somewhere it has a fairly low chance of dealing more damage per mana than Lightning Bolt, and after testing one I dropped it as it kept on ruining my mulligans.
For the most part Vial is unusable card disadvantage. Our 1 drop is much more important in this aggressive format, so dropping turn 1 gobo guide, or tattermunge/vexing devil is a much better start than a do nothing vial. On top of this, in modern we don't have to worry about wasteland, so cavern is better protection from countermagic than vial is.
The upside to vial that still remains true is that it acts like mana ramp, allowing us to drop multiple treats per turn. I just don't think that this is enough to make it an auto include in modern goblin decks. Our top decks are bad enough with cards like earwig squad and goblin grenade which are actually vital/helpful with our game plan.
Most of our guys don't even have enough of an impact when vialed in. With merfolk, we know that any time you activate your vial, your guys will most likely get a power boost. In goblins we don't have any real consistent positive to dropping our guys in. We run 2-3 lords, maybe some token makers, nothing that will really enter and be back breaking.
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
So this deck 3-1ed online twice. And used vial. Vial is used in legacy because it allows you to explode out damage wise, and use burn with your mana. Looks like this deck did the same thing.
Because its kind of.. really bad in most cases. And how often is it totally dead? Ie you get mana screwed, or wiped out before you can get it out. Normal case scenario, you get wiped after laying it, and get in an extra 2-3 damage. I could of just run an extra bolt, or ember hauler or... yeah
So I updated my list quite a bit and am liking this version much more for just about everything. Please keep in mind modern goblins is more of a sligh deck, you can switch gears as needed and as quickly as needed.
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Shattering Spree
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Vexing Shusher
The thing about keldon marauders is that it is 1 dimensional, it's damage and that's really about it. Bloodmark mentor makes combat favorable to me so I can fight through faeries, merfolk, elves, affinity and any number of creature based decks, and moreover it usually prevents kitchen finks from 2 for 1 me, and just turns it into 4 life blocker, which doesn't sound like much but is crucial when I don't have removal for it. It doesn't slow my clock much because it's still a goblin so it benefits from grenade and chieftain. The SB is much more streamlined as I simply dropped disenchant because nobody plays white leyline, and if they do I've got more than enough creatures to push through and just use my burn as removal. Mutavault was dropped because having only 9 cards in the deck MB with a colorless mana cost and with so few land every single land needs to be able to produce color for this very color heavy deck. Barring any awesome additions from the next block, I'll be using this for the upcoming Modern season again as I had pretty good success with it previously.
Path isn't there for late game, its there because its the best removal in the format. It beats goyf and finks, which are easily the 2 hardest things for this deck to deal with. The problem here is that everybody thinks goblins is trying to win as quickly as people, its not a plow straight ahead and swing every turn deck. It's a sligh deck, which is exactly what the legacy version does. Sometimes you go balls to the wall aggro, sometimes you control the opponent and literally kill everything they play. With what can equate to 16 removal spells and 8 creatures that can act as removal, in the aggro matchup I'm usually just knocking out creatures and swinging for 1-2 damage. It's not always a race, but against decks like tron or storm we switch into that all out aggressive mode.
Goblins typically have a very thin land count, so mana is at a premium, and it's barely worthwhile to attack with just one or two goblins at a time anyways. Is there no hope for a mono-red list?
Between Goblin Chieftain and Krenko, Mob Boss, along with cards like Lightning Bolt and Goblin Grenade, yes, there is some hope for a mono red list. However, having an answer to enchantments in mono red is like thinking you can swim across the ocean. Your choices are All is Dust, Chalice of the Void (if you can get to 6 mana before they get to 3), and Oblivion Stone. If you absolutely need to deal with enchantments, you need to splash another color.
I've actually had some good success with my build on Cockatrice. Testing out the lands a bit, I decided to settle on 2x Cavern of Souls with 3x Mutavault.
I am interested in the modern format but its so expensive to get into. I've been playing Magic since the first Ravnica but didn't start building my own collection until M11 or so. As such a lot of the staples that came out of the interim sets aren't in my collection. I have always enjoy Goblins though and have played them heavily in casual. My friends absolutely hate Goblins now which means its time to take the next step. That being said my casual play has offered me the opportunity to obtain some of the cards listed here. Here is the list I'm putting together. I'll follow it up with some explanations where necessary.
So with only 8 instants I was really worried about not having enough removal. That's why I included 4 each of Mogg Fanatic, Goblin Arsonist, and Ember Hauler. Because I've included Ember Hauler and Goblin Wardriver I felt it was too awkward to do multi-color split. I have plenty of the lands for B/R but I feel like W/R is better (but am no where close to having the lands I'd need). For a similar reason I opted for Vexing Shusher in the side as opposed to Cavern of Souls in the main. I also liked the fact that Vexing Shusher could make our Goblin Grenade and Lightning Bolts uncounterable.
What I wanted was to build was a good entry level deck that I can get used to playing very quickly with a relatively simply game and sideboard plan. For what its worth though I do have access to 3 Krenko, Mob Boss and the Goblin token generators to go with him if that's a worthwhile plan but from what I've been reading it really isn't.
Other than that I had one last question: for Mogg War Marshal, what is the plan for his Echo cost? Do you play him and pay the cost to swing with him or is he more like a weird Krenko's Command and he's just played for the tokens? How long on average is it worth paying his Echo cost? I can imagine it would eventually get pretty prohibitive.
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depends. He's good for a lot of reasons. Play him, use him to chump, attack with both tokens next turn. pay echo, have resilience to sweepers. Play him t3, use main one for goblin grenade, etc. All good uses for him, he's never bad!
I am interested in the modern format but its so expensive to get into. I've been playing Magic since the first Ravnica but didn't start building my own collection until M11 or so. As such a lot of the staples that came out of the interim sets aren't in my collection. I have always enjoy Goblins though and have played them heavily in casual. My friends absolutely hate Goblins now which means its time to take the next step. That being said my casual play has offered me the opportunity to obtain some of the cards listed here. Here is the list I'm putting together. I'll follow it up with some explanations where necessary.
So with only 8 instants I was really worried about not having enough removal. That's why I included 4 each of Mogg Fanatic, Goblin Arsonist, and Ember Hauler. Because I've included Ember Hauler and Goblin Wardriver I felt it was too awkward to do multi-color split. I have plenty of the lands for B/R but I feel like W/R is better (but am no where close to having the lands I'd need). For a similar reason I opted for Vexing Shusher in the side as opposed to Cavern of Souls in the main. I also liked the fact that Vexing Shusher could make our Goblin Grenade and Lightning Bolts uncounterable.
What I wanted was to build was a good entry level deck that I can get used to playing very quickly with a relatively simply game and sideboard plan. For what its worth though I do have access to 3 Krenko, Mob Boss and the Goblin token generators to go with him if that's a worthwhile plan but from what I've been reading it really isn't.
Other than that I had one last question: for Mogg War Marshal, what is the plan for his Echo cost? Do you play him and pay the cost to swing with him or is he more like a weird Krenko's Command and he's just played for the tokens? How long on average is it worth paying his Echo cost? I can imagine it would eventually get pretty prohibitive.
You only have to pay the Echo cost the first turn. Usually I'll pay if I want wrath insurance, I have nothing big in hand to play, or I'm good on mana. Usually I'll let him die, try to use him as a grenade his first turn in play, or chump block with him.
The deck is really linear that I'm surprised I haven't seen more like this. We actually have almost the same mainboard except
-4 Goblin Arsonist
+4 Goblin Cohort
How do you like Arsonist? I figured he and Cohort both trade with X/2's, but I liked being able to smack the opponent for 2 if he couldn't block. I'll try him out myself since Cohort's downside can be a bummer and I have Living End in my meta so Arsonist has perks. Depending on how testing goes tomorrow, we might even end up having the same exact mainboard.
Have you played against storm yet? I felt like that matchup was a little bit of a coin toss, because both of you can net turn 4 kills that the other can't interact with. They usually hurt themselves with manabase or gitaxian probes, but 4x Ash Zealot was awesome there despite not being a goblin. 2/2 hasting first-striker for 2 is nothing to scoff at and she bolts them every time they cast a spell they past in flames back.
When do Volcanic Fallout, Combust, and Vexing Shusher get sided in?
EDIT: Krenko isn't too bad I would say, but he'd need to fit into a more midrangey style of goblins. Here, we want to be killing on turn 3 or turn 4. We don't need to slow ourselves down any.
Krenko could probably work in a Red-Black build that can play a slower game. Earwig Squad gives you an easy way to shut down combo. Wort, Boggart Auntie is great for playing a longer game. Not only will Krenko, Chieftain, and the like draw out a lot of removal but she can recur them all and even recur something like Twisted Inversion, Warren Weirding, or Fodder Launch.
There was also an aggressive mono-red deck that had a copy of Krenko and 4-0'd a daily event. I think there were Simian Spirit Guides in it too, to make getting to him more feasible. It led to blowouts occasionally, but in the end I felt the spirit guides were either too much card disadvantage or too small a threat for too much mana while Krenko was too slow without the ssg's.
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I don't see many mono-red lists here. I know you're more open to hate cards running just one color. More good reasons to splash?
My current list is quite quick (at least in testing). I've tried splashing black, and felt it slowed my down a bit. Any opinion on the speed of mono-red vs. red-black?
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Hellrider
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Dangerous Wager
2 Reverberate
Other spells (8)
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Krenko's Command
20 Mountain
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Read somewhere it has a fairly low chance of dealing more damage per mana than Lightning Bolt, and after testing one I dropped it as it kept on ruining my mulligans.
For the most part Vial is unusable card disadvantage. Our 1 drop is much more important in this aggressive format, so dropping turn 1 gobo guide, or tattermunge/vexing devil is a much better start than a do nothing vial. On top of this, in modern we don't have to worry about wasteland, so cavern is better protection from countermagic than vial is.
The upside to vial that still remains true is that it acts like mana ramp, allowing us to drop multiple treats per turn. I just don't think that this is enough to make it an auto include in modern goblin decks. Our top decks are bad enough with cards like earwig squad and goblin grenade which are actually vital/helpful with our game plan.
Most of our guys don't even have enough of an impact when vialed in. With merfolk, we know that any time you activate your vial, your guys will most likely get a power boost. In goblins we don't have any real consistent positive to dropping our guys in. We run 2-3 lords, maybe some token makers, nothing that will really enter and be back breaking.
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Goblins - azrael37 (3-1) Modern Daily #4128339 on 08/01/2012, francof2842 (3-1) Modern Daily #4150795 on 08/02/2012
14 Mountain
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin King
4 Goblin Wardriver
2 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Pithing Needle
4 Searing Blaze
4 Shattering Spree
So this deck 3-1ed online twice. And used vial. Vial is used in legacy because it allows you to explode out damage wise, and use burn with your mana. Looks like this deck did the same thing.
Modern
R Goblins R
Legacy
BU Reanimator BU
BW Stoneblade BW
3 Bloodmark Mentor (dropped 4 Keldon Marauders, added bloodmarks and 1 arsonist)
3 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
1 Spikeshot Elder
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Teetering Peaks (dropped 1 mutavault from previous PTQ lists)
SB:
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Shattering Spree
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Vexing Shusher
The thing about keldon marauders is that it is 1 dimensional, it's damage and that's really about it. Bloodmark mentor makes combat favorable to me so I can fight through faeries, merfolk, elves, affinity and any number of creature based decks, and moreover it usually prevents kitchen finks from 2 for 1 me, and just turns it into 4 life blocker, which doesn't sound like much but is crucial when I don't have removal for it. It doesn't slow my clock much because it's still a goblin so it benefits from grenade and chieftain. The SB is much more streamlined as I simply dropped disenchant because nobody plays white leyline, and if they do I've got more than enough creatures to push through and just use my burn as removal. Mutavault was dropped because having only 9 cards in the deck MB with a colorless mana cost and with so few land every single land needs to be able to produce color for this very color heavy deck. Barring any awesome additions from the next block, I'll be using this for the upcoming Modern season again as I had pretty good success with it previously.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
I am still splashing black for Inquisition of Kozilek, Earwig Squad and a singleton Fodder Launch, along with Terminate in the board. The deck is mostly built around Goblin Chieftain and Krenko, Mob Boss, complete with a full set of Bolts and Grenades. Dragon Fodder and Krenko's Command can help pump out crazy amounts of goblins in a few turns. Goblin King can also pump your guys and make them unblockable in several match ups.
The deck is currently 4-1 on Cockatrice.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
I am interested in the modern format but its so expensive to get into. I've been playing Magic since the first Ravnica but didn't start building my own collection until M11 or so. As such a lot of the staples that came out of the interim sets aren't in my collection. I have always enjoy Goblins though and have played them heavily in casual. My friends absolutely hate Goblins now which means its time to take the next step. That being said my casual play has offered me the opportunity to obtain some of the cards listed here. Here is the list I'm putting together. I'll follow it up with some explanations where necessary.
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Arsonist
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War marshal
4 Ember Hauler
4 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
Lands
20 Mountains
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Shattering Spree
3 Combust
3 Volcanic Fallout
So with only 8 instants I was really worried about not having enough removal. That's why I included 4 each of Mogg Fanatic, Goblin Arsonist, and Ember Hauler. Because I've included Ember Hauler and Goblin Wardriver I felt it was too awkward to do multi-color split. I have plenty of the lands for B/R but I feel like W/R is better (but am no where close to having the lands I'd need). For a similar reason I opted for Vexing Shusher in the side as opposed to Cavern of Souls in the main. I also liked the fact that Vexing Shusher could make our Goblin Grenade and Lightning Bolts uncounterable.
What I wanted was to build was a good entry level deck that I can get used to playing very quickly with a relatively simply game and sideboard plan. For what its worth though I do have access to 3 Krenko, Mob Boss and the Goblin token generators to go with him if that's a worthwhile plan but from what I've been reading it really isn't.
Other than that I had one last question: for Mogg War Marshal, what is the plan for his Echo cost? Do you play him and pay the cost to swing with him or is he more like a weird Krenko's Command and he's just played for the tokens? How long on average is it worth paying his Echo cost? I can imagine it would eventually get pretty prohibitive.
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You only have to pay the Echo cost the first turn. Usually I'll pay if I want wrath insurance, I have nothing big in hand to play, or I'm good on mana. Usually I'll let him die, try to use him as a grenade his first turn in play, or chump block with him.
The deck is really linear that I'm surprised I haven't seen more like this. We actually have almost the same mainboard except
-4 Goblin Arsonist
+4 Goblin Cohort
How do you like Arsonist? I figured he and Cohort both trade with X/2's, but I liked being able to smack the opponent for 2 if he couldn't block. I'll try him out myself since Cohort's downside can be a bummer and I have Living End in my meta so Arsonist has perks. Depending on how testing goes tomorrow, we might even end up having the same exact mainboard.
Have you played against storm yet? I felt like that matchup was a little bit of a coin toss, because both of you can net turn 4 kills that the other can't interact with. They usually hurt themselves with manabase or gitaxian probes, but 4x Ash Zealot was awesome there despite not being a goblin. 2/2 hasting first-striker for 2 is nothing to scoff at and she bolts them every time they cast a spell they past in flames back.
When do Volcanic Fallout, Combust, and Vexing Shusher get sided in?
EDIT: Krenko isn't too bad I would say, but he'd need to fit into a more midrangey style of goblins. Here, we want to be killing on turn 3 or turn 4. We don't need to slow ourselves down any.
Krenko could probably work in a Red-Black build that can play a slower game. Earwig Squad gives you an easy way to shut down combo. Wort, Boggart Auntie is great for playing a longer game. Not only will Krenko, Chieftain, and the like draw out a lot of removal but she can recur them all and even recur something like Twisted Inversion, Warren Weirding, or Fodder Launch.
There was also an aggressive mono-red deck that had a copy of Krenko and 4-0'd a daily event. I think there were Simian Spirit Guides in it too, to make getting to him more feasible. It led to blowouts occasionally, but in the end I felt the spirit guides were either too much card disadvantage or too small a threat for too much mana while Krenko was too slow without the ssg's.
Here it is:
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Cohort
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Wardriver
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
Lands
19 Mountain
EDIT: EDIT: Why are R/x Goblins and modern goblins separate threads?