Lightning bolt is the second best red spell of all time right under goblin grende both are 4 ofs no question!
I really like the king and magus/blood moon synergy and its great versus certain decks and could be something to revisit if tron or jund completely take over the meta share but for now it just proved to be slow.
I was considering possible splash colors and I think we can already evaluate the white splash as proven
The second most useful option seemed to be green
I noticed jund hackblade has a bit of value but it might be to hard to cast turn 2 it would be cool to have access to tin-street hooliganchoke and blood moon in the same board though... finding room for ram gang and that other wither multicolored 1 drop might give the deck enough to turn on hackblades haste.
I think there is a whole bunch to consider in black also
As far as tapping out goes, when they do tap out you usually just win (at least in my case when they tap out I swing and then grenade the last 4 life or so).
After a lot more testing, Siege-Gang commander is pretty useless in this meta and the deck is to aggressive to use him anyway, I have 3 in so I guess I'll just swap in 4 bolts and axe an arsonist from the list as well for the fourth, I agree bolt is amazing was just trying to make this list far different from my Kuldotha deck.
I have found against Jund that Goblin King will often allow you to sweep by their Kitchen Finks and Bloodbraid Elves and Aether Vial is great for baiting Maelstrom Pulse.
I also, found that dropping a guide and a wardriver to bait a removal spell more advantageous than dropping your lord.
For Soul Sisters or Martyr Proc you need more than just Leyline to slow them down, Martyr Proc especially since they run Honor Of The Pure and can swarm almost as fast as you can, any suggestions against this deck?
For those who use vial i was thinking of Zo-Zo The Punisher as a one of possibly since once the deck hits 3 or 4 mana you don't really drop land much
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
To be perfectly blunt, having white splash does not offer you really any chance against martyr, I playtested against it extensively, even using flames of the blood hand x4 and it just didn't get the job done. So I took my chances and just simply hoped I didn't play against in any of the ptqs I attended (which I didn't because its such a small portion of decks). Don't use the leyline period, if you don't get it in your opening hand then you're more than likely never going to be cast it at any point where they haven't already gained 20+ life.
To have a chance against martyr you need to go with the black splash and use a 4 of Rain of Gore out of the sideboard, it has applications against several decks (namely anybody you think would be boarding in timelys) and it comes down early (before they can even use Martyr if you went first). Goblin King certainly has its uses, I'm not doubting them but as a whole Chieftain applies a benefit that is useful 99% of the time compared to just against mountains.
To be perfectly blunt, having white splash does not offer you really any chance against martyr, I playtested against it extensively, even using flames of the blood hand x4 and it just didn't get the job done. So I took my chances and just simply hoped I didn't play against in any of the ptqs I attended (which I didn't because its such a small portion of decks). Don't use the leyline period, if you don't get it in your opening hand then you're more than likely never going to be cast it at any point where they haven't already gained 20+ life.
To have a chance against martyr you need to go with the black splash and use a 4 of Rain of Gore out of the sideboard, it has applications against several decks (namely anybody you think would be boarding in timelys) and it comes down early (before they can even use Martyr if you went first). Goblin King certainly has its uses, I'm not doubting them but as a whole Chieftain applies a benefit that is useful 99% of the time compared to just against mountains.
Yeah I figured that, just when they get out an honor of the pure that I lose steam even with an opening leyline, I was thinking maybe pyroclasm against them, but I would think that would do more harm than good, Rain of Gore would work even with the Mono-Red version just splash some RB duals certainly better than Leyline anyway
Against Jund I won't board out the Chieftens, depends on their build on what I board out (if they have goyfs or bob mainly), but King helps just to go through them and their liliana does nothing when you have a board of 4-5 creatures
I do like how this deck laughs at Tron if they can't get together by turn 4-5 they lose
Yeah I am definitely going to try to find a way to incorporate him in, he is either a nice 4/3 for one or a Lightning Bolt+
I see Red Aggro getting a lot out of Avacyn (Thunderous Wrath just seems great for a deck that plays off the top deck), maybe goblins not as much, but this one drop is definitely something
This new card is Spark Elemental like burn, either you get a 4/3 or they take 4
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
So Vexing Devil will be taking the place of Keldon Marauders in this deck promptly for the non 4 goblins I use mainboard.
I'm a bit weary of vexing devil. Pretesting it smells a lot like browbeat. I'm not saying it's bad, just that it will always be the worst card possible.
I don't like goblin king and don't run any in my deck. They are cute, not good. Magus of the moon MB is basically gg vs any tron build and it can be enough of a road block against jund to get the upperhand on them(keeps then off GG for finks) and magus will just blow out other jund COLORED decks(loam, living end etc). If not for the easily disruptible Modern manabase, I'd run Mogg Fanatic in its place.
I tried out sulfur elemental and I gotta say I love it. I board in 3 and out 3 chieftains. Yeah White decks run anthems, if they don't have any out, then you wrath their board and can usually win shortly after. It's the same logic of Elesh Norn vs Tempered steel decks, yeah she wont always lock them out, but when she does it's gg.
Also, sulfur elemental has the added bonus of wiping lingering souls off of delver boards. the split second is 100% relevant and can also help kill those nasty Martyrs(no sac for life in resp).
Just some more thoughts.
My Side board Currently:
3 Bloodmoon
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Relic of Progenitous
3 Sulfur Elemental
4 Smash to Smitherines
2 dismember
It does come across as Browbeat to start, however its better on several fronts. The first being is you're not tapping out for it. Second is that neither effect is bad ever (a 4/3 for one can be dead on the board, but its still a 4/3 for R so its going to trade at worst with another creature, and 4 dmg to the dome is never ever a bad thing for this deck) because a 4/3 can trade with goyfs a good bit of the time in the event they choose not to take 4 dmg. Its taking a creature spot not a burn spot so top decking it isn't going to cause you to go "well I just lost a bolt". Testing will definitely help sort it out a bit better but at first glance I'll be having it fill the marauders role (value creature that once it resolves your getting more for your mana than you would be at that particlar CC, regardless of which choice your opponent goes with)
Vexxing devil will go straight into my modern vial goblins. Fits extremely well as a one drop, and if they say no, four health points for one burn spell is not bad.
It does come across as Browbeat to start, however its better on several fronts. The first being is you're not tapping out for it. Second is that neither effect is bad ever (a 4/3 for one can be dead on the board, but its still a 4/3 for R so its going to trade at worst with another creature, and 4 dmg to the dome is never ever a bad thing for this deck) because a 4/3 can trade with goyfs a good bit of the time in the event they choose not to take 4 dmg. Its taking a creature spot not a burn spot so top decking it isn't going to cause you to go "well I just lost a bolt". Testing will definitely help sort it out a bit better but at first glance I'll be having it fill the marauders role (value creature that once it resolves your getting more for your mana than you would be at that particlar CC, regardless of which choice your opponent goes with)
I'm not saying it's as bad as browbeat, obviously, it doesn't cost 3. What I was trying to point out is how awkward it is to go turn 1 bolt, pass. I loved marauders because with a kicked bushwhacker, he just got insane amounts of value and usually force my opponents to do "un-optimal" things.
the Devil is good, but is mogg fanatic better? I mean, if your opener has Devil in it, you don't wanna play it turn 1, because you lose the pressure if they don't have to use actual removal on one of your creatures. mogg fanatic lands and then any removal they point at it is moot. similarly, with marauders it's a creature that your opponent believes there is no point in targeting because they wont gain anything anyways.
tl;dr? Vexing Devil loses a bit of the virtual card advantage that red decks(especially modern gobs) love so much.
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
It does come across as Browbeat to start, however its better on several fronts. The first being is you're not tapping out for it. Second is that neither effect is bad ever (a 4/3 for one can be dead on the board, but its still a 4/3 for R so its going to trade at worst with another creature, and 4 dmg to the dome is never ever a bad thing for this deck) because a 4/3 can trade with goyfs a good bit of the time in the event they choose not to take 4 dmg. Its taking a creature spot not a burn spot so top decking it isn't going to cause you to go "well I just lost a bolt". Testing will definitely help sort it out a bit better but at first glance I'll be having it fill the marauders role (value creature that once it resolves your getting more for your mana than you would be at that particlar CC, regardless of which choice your opponent goes with)
I agree especially with the goyfs, they are hard to deal with when dropped since they are usually 3/4's or bigger one they are dropped, this little devil sort of evens the playing field against them. Replacing Marauders with him I am not sure he definitely needs testing before making that change, with Vial i am thinking of some very fun scenarios dropping him in at the end of my opponents turn
I can see him being a huge advantage in standard RDW at least
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
Personally fan of the white splash more, but if you're running black then Earwig squad should be at least a 3 of somewhere in your 75, a 5/3 that stomps combo for 3 is pretty relevant (and just flat out makes Tron lose). Its better than Mad Auntie imo, Bushwhacker is a pseudo lord and chieftain get the job done in that category well enough. Your mana base looks a bit shaky, trying to keep it budget? If you can afford it try making it look more like this
If you have a mutavault I would drop a fetch for one copy. Dragonskull summit just doesn't work for this deck because on the occasion you get a 1-2 land opening hand and they are summits you are gonna have to mulligan, we need every land in the deck to come in play untapped or have a useful effect that would be equivalent to having another creature (such as teetering peaks) .
Combo/Persist/Graveyard/Reset Button. This is for a largely unknown meta. However, I believe that Affinity will be light (otherwise it wouldn't be easy to wait out on Shattering Spree) and that a significant number of people will be playing slightly modified Standard decks.
I've been testing out my goblins list on MWS with vexing devil and i must say... He is an all star. On the play, t1 guide, t2 peaks + devil. You are either taking 6 or 10, the couple of times they've let him stay, ive managed to throw out bushwacker. Vial goblins is really a thing right now. The only tron lists i've ran up against that can actually assemble the beast and still win, have been the ones with red splash for pyroclasm (MAINBOARD) Aether vial just sets this deck off and makes an EOT devil so fun.
I've been testing out my goblins list on MWS with vexing devil and i must say... He is an all star. On the play, t1 guide, t2 peaks + devil. You are either taking 6 or 10, the couple of times they've let him stay, ive managed to throw out bushwacker. Vial goblins is really a thing right now. The only tron lists i've ran up against that can actually assemble the beast and still win, have been the ones with red splash for pyroclasm (MAINBOARD) Aether vial just sets this deck off and makes an EOT devil so fun.
Any chance we could see your list? In my experience, vial becomes a huge liability late game because it becomes exponentially worse after turn 1. I'm not knocking vial gobs but I'm a bit sceptical about hurting a red decks top deck.
Oh and on a side note. I have been pleasently surprised with the usefulness of vexing devil. Most of the time its path bait. But it feels so good to drop bushwhackers and haste devil into their face.
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
Card explinations;
Originally I was running Goblin Chieftain in Path of Anger's Flame's spot. I found that it would usually either die to removal or finish the game the turn it was cast. PoAF has more reach if you have 3 bodies out already (+6 instead of +3 and a 2/2) and everybody that lives long enough to deal damage is still bigger where the Chieftain would eat a path or something. It also surprises the heck out of people during combat where they wouldn't normally block with a bird turn 3 to prevent the 3-4 damage but then its 9+ after blockers are declared (or not).
Been really impressed with fanatic. I wish I had been running it in my burn deck. But I'm sure you guys know how great it is. It, Ember Hauler, and Emberwilde Augur all provide great reach while the first two can also double as removal while sticking around to beat against uninteractive decks.
Akki Avalanchers is also in there for the reach. They're 1 drops that can beat for 3 or take a bigger creature down. On a clear board with a Bushwacker can swing for 6 instead of the 5 that you get off guide. Amazing with PoAF as they become 5/1's.
I want to try Goblin Wardriver but he was soooo slow in Kuldotha red. I know I'm an idiot though so we'll see.
Also going to try and shove in two Reforge the Soul. It is great in burn at refilling your hand and giving you a land drop to cast something with. Considering the only thing I ever want to dig for is grenade, I can't imagine it being any worse here.
Here is my current build. It has been doing well (mostly X-1, not the most developed meta). The only blowout has come from Snapcaster Mage naming Timely Reinforcements.
I usually side the Boggarts out in favor of the Magi or the Squad, but it depends. I'm not sure if it is just less than optimal and thus losing a match here and there, or just losing out to generic aggro hate.
Squad comes in for various combo decks, sometimes in tandem with Magus. Some decks scoop to a resolved Squad. I'm not going to argue that it is perfect, but that is the rationale. Also, I play in a somewhat odd meta at the moment.
Fallout does kill off most of the goblins, but sometimes it is a tradeoff worth making. Mostly against Bant type decks. However, these decks might only be problems due to reduced power via the tribal build.
Any suggestions as to how you would shape the sideboard? Either for an unknown meta or a rogue heavy meta?
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I don't know the rules for double posting/bumping, so I'll just edit this in here.
After playing in another tournament with more established decks, here are some thoughts:
1 - Mono-red might be better than the splash for two reasons: pure speed (Inquisition is great, but I want to push more damage if possible) and main board Moon effects (either Magus or the original or possibly a combination).
2 - I think four Grenades might be too much. Even with three Grenades I felt like I saw it too often.
I really like the king and magus/blood moon synergy and its great versus certain decks and could be something to revisit if tron or jund completely take over the meta share but for now it just proved to be slow.
I was considering possible splash colors and I think we can already evaluate the white splash as proven
The second most useful option seemed to be green
I noticed jund hackblade has a bit of value but it might be to hard to cast turn 2 it would be cool to have access to tin-street hooligan choke and blood moon in the same board though... finding room for ram gang and that other wither multicolored 1 drop might give the deck enough to turn on hackblades haste.
I think there is a whole bunch to consider in black also
Magic players have made it abundantly clear that their time is worth $0/hour in their opinion, so no sympathy there. -DR jeebus or something
After a lot more testing, Siege-Gang commander is pretty useless in this meta and the deck is to aggressive to use him anyway, I have 3 in so I guess I'll just swap in 4 bolts and axe an arsonist from the list as well for the fourth, I agree bolt is amazing was just trying to make this list far different from my Kuldotha deck.
I have found against Jund that Goblin King will often allow you to sweep by their Kitchen Finks and Bloodbraid Elves and Aether Vial is great for baiting Maelstrom Pulse.
I also, found that dropping a guide and a wardriver to bait a removal spell more advantageous than dropping your lord.
For Soul Sisters or Martyr Proc you need more than just Leyline to slow them down, Martyr Proc especially since they run Honor Of The Pure and can swarm almost as fast as you can, any suggestions against this deck?
For those who use vial i was thinking of Zo-Zo The Punisher as a one of possibly since once the deck hits 3 or 4 mana you don't really drop land much
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
To have a chance against martyr you need to go with the black splash and use a 4 of Rain of Gore out of the sideboard, it has applications against several decks (namely anybody you think would be boarding in timelys) and it comes down early (before they can even use Martyr if you went first). Goblin King certainly has its uses, I'm not doubting them but as a whole Chieftain applies a benefit that is useful 99% of the time compared to just against mountains.
Yeah I figured that, just when they get out an honor of the pure that I lose steam even with an opening leyline, I was thinking maybe pyroclasm against them, but I would think that would do more harm than good, Rain of Gore would work even with the Mono-Red version just splash some RB duals certainly better than Leyline anyway
Against Jund I won't board out the Chieftens, depends on their build on what I board out (if they have goyfs or bob mainly), but King helps just to go through them and their liliana does nothing when you have a board of 4-5 creatures
I do like how this deck laughs at Tron if they can't get together by turn 4-5 they lose
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
I see Red Aggro getting a lot out of Avacyn (Thunderous Wrath just seems great for a deck that plays off the top deck), maybe goblins not as much, but this one drop is definitely something
This new card is Spark Elemental like burn, either you get a 4/3 or they take 4
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
I'm a bit weary of vexing devil. Pretesting it smells a lot like browbeat. I'm not saying it's bad, just that it will always be the worst card possible.
I don't like goblin king and don't run any in my deck. They are cute, not good.
Magus of the moon MB is basically gg vs any tron build and it can be enough of a road block against jund to get the upperhand on them(keeps then off GG for finks) and magus will just blow out other jund COLORED decks(loam, living end etc). If not for the easily disruptible Modern manabase, I'd run Mogg Fanatic in its place.
I tried out sulfur elemental and I gotta say I love it. I board in 3 and out 3 chieftains. Yeah White decks run anthems, if they don't have any out, then you wrath their board and can usually win shortly after. It's the same logic of Elesh Norn vs Tempered steel decks, yeah she wont always lock them out, but when she does it's gg.
Also, sulfur elemental has the added bonus of wiping lingering souls off of delver boards. the split second is 100% relevant and can also help kill those nasty Martyrs(no sac for life in resp).
Just some more thoughts.
My Side board Currently:
3 Bloodmoon
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Relic of Progenitous
3 Sulfur Elemental
4 Smash to Smitherines
2 dismember
I'm not saying it's as bad as browbeat, obviously, it doesn't cost 3. What I was trying to point out is how awkward it is to go turn 1 bolt, pass. I loved marauders because with a kicked bushwhacker, he just got insane amounts of value and usually force my opponents to do "un-optimal" things.
the Devil is good, but is mogg fanatic better? I mean, if your opener has Devil in it, you don't wanna play it turn 1, because you lose the pressure if they don't have to use actual removal on one of your creatures. mogg fanatic lands and then any removal they point at it is moot. similarly, with marauders it's a creature that your opponent believes there is no point in targeting because they wont gain anything anyways.
tl;dr? Vexing Devil loses a bit of the virtual card advantage that red decks(especially modern gobs) love so much.
I agree especially with the goyfs, they are hard to deal with when dropped since they are usually 3/4's or bigger one they are dropped, this little devil sort of evens the playing field against them. Replacing Marauders with him I am not sure he definitely needs testing before making that change, with Vial i am thinking of some very fun scenarios dropping him in at the end of my opponents turn
I can see him being a huge advantage in standard RDW at least
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshall
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Mad Auntie
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
8 Mountain
4 Swamp
4 Sulfurous Springs
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 blood crypt
4 blackcleave cliffs
4 auntie's hovel
4 mountain
4 Mountain fetches (arid mesa or scalding tarn both work)
If you have a mutavault I would drop a fetch for one copy. Dragonskull summit just doesn't work for this deck because on the occasion you get a 1-2 land opening hand and they are summits you are gonna have to mulligan, we need every land in the deck to come in play untapped or have a useful effect that would be equivalent to having another creature (such as teetering peaks) .
-4 Mad Auntie, +4 Boggart Ram Gang in the main? Seems like an oversight on my part, but maybe not.
Sideboard Options (temporarily with budget and availability in mind, as some things are becoming hard to find):
4 Magma Spray
4 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Volcanic Fallout
Combo/Persist/Graveyard/Reset Button. This is for a largely unknown meta. However, I believe that Affinity will be light (otherwise it wouldn't be easy to wait out on Shattering Spree) and that a significant number of people will be playing slightly modified Standard decks.
Any chance we could see your list? In my experience, vial becomes a huge liability late game because it becomes exponentially worse after turn 1. I'm not knocking vial gobs but I'm a bit sceptical about hurting a red decks top deck.
Oh and on a side note. I have been pleasently surprised with the usefulness of vexing devil. Most of the time its path bait. But it feels so good to drop bushwhackers and haste devil into their face.
Running;
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path of Anger's Flame
Goblins
2 Akki Avalanchers
4 Goblin Guide
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Ember Hauler
3 Emberwilde Augur
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
8 Mountains
2 Teetering Peaks
3 Searing Blaze
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Leyline of Punishment
4 Boom/Bust
Card explinations;
Originally I was running Goblin Chieftain in Path of Anger's Flame's spot. I found that it would usually either die to removal or finish the game the turn it was cast. PoAF has more reach if you have 3 bodies out already (+6 instead of +3 and a 2/2) and everybody that lives long enough to deal damage is still bigger where the Chieftain would eat a path or something. It also surprises the heck out of people during combat where they wouldn't normally block with a bird turn 3 to prevent the 3-4 damage but then its 9+ after blockers are declared (or not).
Been really impressed with fanatic. I wish I had been running it in my burn deck. But I'm sure you guys know how great it is. It, Ember Hauler, and Emberwilde Augur all provide great reach while the first two can also double as removal while sticking around to beat against uninteractive decks.
Akki Avalanchers is also in there for the reach. They're 1 drops that can beat for 3 or take a bigger creature down. On a clear board with a Bushwacker can swing for 6 instead of the 5 that you get off guide. Amazing with PoAF as they become 5/1's.
I want to try Goblin Wardriver but he was soooo slow in Kuldotha red. I know I'm an idiot though so we'll see.
Also going to try and shove in two Reforge the Soul. It is great in burn at refilling your hand and giving you a land drop to cast something with. Considering the only thing I ever want to dig for is grenade, I can't imagine it being any worse here.
4 Frenzied Goblin
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Sulfurous Springs
8 Mountain
2 Earwig Squad
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Torpor Orb
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Smash to Smithereens
I usually side the Boggarts out in favor of the Magi or the Squad, but it depends. I'm not sure if it is just less than optimal and thus losing a match here and there, or just losing out to generic aggro hate.
Doesn't fallout hurt you as much as it hurts everyone else?
Fallout does kill off most of the goblins, but sometimes it is a tradeoff worth making. Mostly against Bant type decks. However, these decks might only be problems due to reduced power via the tribal build.
Any suggestions as to how you would shape the sideboard? Either for an unknown meta or a rogue heavy meta?
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I don't know the rules for double posting/bumping, so I'll just edit this in here.
After playing in another tournament with more established decks, here are some thoughts:
1 - Mono-red might be better than the splash for two reasons: pure speed (Inquisition is great, but I want to push more damage if possible) and main board Moon effects (either Magus or the original or possibly a combination).
2 - I think four Grenades might be too much. Even with three Grenades I felt like I saw it too often.