May I ask what you were up against? It seems that without Crypt Incursion or some sort of aggro protection (apart from 2 Damnation) you'll be outraced by most aggro decks. How did you find the matchup?
I played vs Martyr, Living End and Kiki pod and won, combo decks are very weak against mill+Surgical Extraction, but I felt like a BYE to the Merfolk player, losing to him in the swiss rounds and in the final, 0-2 both.
I guess my sideboard needs more removals :>
Have you thought about Ensnaring Bridge? Merfolk aggro typically will pump their creatures to enormous levels - an Ensnaring Bridge should hose them because they generally don't bring much bounces (although an Echoing Truth may spell doom for you in one turn).
May I ask what you were up against? It seems that without Crypt Incursion or some sort of aggro protection (apart from 2 Damnation) you'll be outraced by most aggro decks. How did you find the matchup?
I played vs Martyr, Living End and Kiki pod and won, combo decks are very weak against mill+Surgical Extraction, but I felt like a BYE to the Merfolk player, losing to him in the swiss rounds and in the final, 0-2 both.
I guess my sideboard needs more removals :>
Have you thought about Ensnaring Bridge? Merfolk aggro typically will pump their creatures to enormous levels - an Ensnaring Bridge should hose them because they generally don't bring much bounces (although an Echoing Truth may spell doom for you in one turn).
I started recording my wins about two days ago, but I've played way more games than these.
So far its:
Wins Losses
Tron 1 0
UGR 0 1
Jund 0 1
Storm 1 1
Melira Pod 2 0
WUR Control 1 0
Merfolk 0 1
GW Hatebears 0 1
Living End 0 1
Splinter Twin 1 1
BG Rock 1 3
The BG matchup is giving me headaches. Goyf and Ooze both own us, and the hand destruction is the worst part. I usually side in Leyline of Sanctity but that is only a bandage - they have Maelstrom Pulse and Abrupt Decay to take care of it and Ensnaring Bridge.
Hatebears and Living End are way easier - I usually win against those but it's just these past games I've lost. I really need to find some sideboard tech that's effective against the BG matchup.
So far, online with this is pretty fun. only played 5 matches so far and I'm 4-1. As mentioned, goyf+discard is rough, and I got slaughtered in that match. But, ad nauseum, pyro storm, and scapeshift has been cake. I saw that the grand prix deck has 4 delver in the sb, thoughts on that?
That's my deck. I actually lost in the finals of the trial due to only drawing 1 blue source. They just wanted to post my deck list. Which is why I didn't actually have 2 byes like I would if I won the trial. I went 1-3(beating gryo's vengeance) because I messed up in match 2, costing myself the match and went on tilt(also my draws were just badtoo many lands). I always run 61 cards. I just like to, statistically makes no real difference. Most decks currently can't beat a T2 5/5 flyer and when they focus on that they have difficulty beating the mill plan.
I played Merfolk...very inexperienced player, easy win. She had no answer to ensnaring bridge in her 75. Splinter twin when I blew him out by host quartering my own land to get a white source and cast disenchant...not sure why he went for it with no counter back up. Bogles which I raced g1 and cast ensnaring bridge g2 and prismatic omen valakut- I was just able to remove valakut both games. I lost in the finals to Merfolk. I raced him with damage G1 got land flooded g2 and he had triple snag g3 for my 2 phantasm. The guy even hard cast a mind break trap on my pte for his Lord. I had ensnaring bridge in hand but only 3 lands and 1 blue source so I could never empty my hand of the 2 jace's phantasms he bounced back and cast the bridge at the same time.
Against vengeance, I just happened to have a great hand g1 and was on the play. he thought seized me to find surgical extraction, glimpse, 2snapcaster, and crypt incursion +lands. He took surgical and I flashed it back t2 on the thoughtsieze to find he had kept a triple thoughtsieze hand. I beat him down with my double snapcaster keeping up the crypt incursion just in case. G2 he managed to get Griselbrand in play and I lost to a double attack. G3 I just beat him down. He took too many damage from shocks and thoughtsieze. He hit with an emrakul, but I was holding a land and delver to replay. My second match was against splinter twin combo. I got land flooded G1 with 15 lands in play he had 10 cards left in his library. G2 he had a relic of progenitus in play and rather than waiting for him to tap it at end of turn and target me as had every end step I attempted to surgical his splinter twins which obviously ended badly for me. I knew that was a big mistake and when I sat down to play uwr control for the next match I just did a whole bunch of things that didn't make any sense including some very poor SB decisions. I played mono white hate bears in match 4. I stalled on lands against Thalia g1 and just couldn't get there g2. I needed 1 more turn.
Delver was very good. I will be testing
-4 crab
-1 shell dock
-1 oboro
+1hallowed fountain
+1 drownyard
+4 delver main
+2 extirpate
+1 spell pierce
+1 entreat the angels board
Sad to hear the close games couldn't be closed out. Will you be using this in the future? I prefer the mill threat myself, but I've been thinking about running a creature heavy sideboard based on Jace's Phantasm, Nighthowler and Wight of Precinct Six. The only thing I'm afraid of is graveyard hate, because that would make them so useless.
So I went 4-0 (really 3-0 because I had an opponent DC on me) on a Modern Daily yesterday. I faced Burn, Kiki-pod and finally Scapeshift. Honestly, I had pretty much perfect games - I milled almost all the creatures with the first Archive Trap then caught him tapped out with a Crypt Incursion. Second game went similarly - the Crypt Incursion only hit 3 creatures but it was enough to keep me alive. I kept a hand with 1 mana and 3 Archives against the Kiki-pod, then hit him turn 3 and closed the game out with a Crypt Incursion, and in the second game I extracted his Kiki and hit with another Crypt Incursion for like 50 life. Against Scapeshift, I milled all his Scapeshifts with the first 2 Archives, and in the second game I extracted his Scapeshift.
I was lucky enough not to hit any of our bad matchups and drew very well. The worst part was I had the eligibility options incorrectly selected and I didn't get any prizes (got my entry tickets refunded though, but that's a poor substitute.
So I've attempted a write-up of my GP Richmond experience in a blog on this site, which I've come to find is not very user friendly. The decklist looks like crap, and I couldn't find the shortcut button to go through and put the card labels around highlighted cards, so sorry in advance. If the link even works, here it is!
Sad to hear the close games couldn't be closed out. Will you be using this in the future? I prefer the mill threat myself, but I've been thinking about running a creature heavy sideboard based on Jace's Phantasm, Nighthowler and Wight of Precinct Six. The only thing I'm afraid of is graveyard hate, because that would make them so useless.
Yes, I've been toying with this list for about 2 months now. I plan to play it for the whole season unless something big changes. I tried playing defender mill with Phenax once that was revealed, but the deck was pretty terrible with a bunch of cards that pretty much did nothing unless Phenax was in play. I also tested out Wight, Phantasm, Nighthowler & Tombstalker (milling myself when the Op had a leyline of Sanctity). But you're right, the graveyard hate made the deck pretty terrible.
Last night I played the deck with the changes I stated above plus I moved PTE to the SB and brought in 2 more Main deck Surgical Extraction.
I went 2-2 at FNM last night beating Affinity & Monoblack discard. I lost to U Tron, which is a matchup I find to be very difficult if I'm unable to remove one of the tron pieces and slow it down, & Zoo where I stalled on 2 lands in G1 & G3. In G3 had I drawn a third land I would have been able to cast Crypt Incursion, probably guaranteeing the win as I had cast 2x Trap & 1 Glimpse the Unthinkable. Mana issues are the bane of my existence I am thinking about moving to 4x Darkslick Shores. Choke is an issue & with no more Hedron Crab in the deck, fetches just aren't as necessary. Also, it would keep my life total higher since fetching wouldn't happen as often.
So I've attempted a write-up of my GP Richmond experience in a blog on this site, which I've come to find is not very user friendly. The decklist looks like crap, and I couldn't find the shortcut button to go through and put the card labels around highlighted cards, so sorry in advance. If the link even works, here it is!
If you don't want to read the play-by-play, the tl;dr version is that mill is good vs combo and not so great vs aggro.
It looks like you are running green just for your SB cards, how has that been for you? Something I am going to test out 1 week is cutting W for G + Life from the Loam in the SB. Turning my Ghost Quarters into Strip Mines with Extraction effects seems like something that is worth at least a test. I've been able to remove enough R sources against Twin/Valakut on several occasions that they couldn't combo out, which makes it seem at least worth a couple days testing to me.
So I went 3-1 on a Daily, winning against Scapeshift, Splinter Twin and Tron. The Splinter Twin match was funny - ended up beating him down with a 2/2 Swan he gave me when countering my Inquisition at the beginning of the game. 2-0ed all of them fairly easily. The Tron match was unfortunate because he was mana screwed.
The one match I lost was against U/G Infect. It wasn't even close - he SBed in a bunch of counters that royally screwed me over. I have no idea what to do against this matchup. I lost 0-2.
I've played many games with just the small splash for a few SB cards, and I've rarely had problems with mana if that's what you're wondering. Nothing green costs more than 1, and even though it's been mentioned in this thread early on that having a shock that is both 'off' colors may be bad (Overgrown Tomb in my case, Godless Shrine in esper), I found myself searching for that one more often than the Breeding Pool I used. There was a game I played (not at the GP) where I was able to turn 1 get rid of a leyline with a Nature's claim by bolting myself, but I went on to win the game so I do like the green splash a little better because of that. I guess you could run the Loam combo with Ghost Quarter, allowing lots of free Land Destruction if they don't want to get milled with Traps. I'd just make sure to keep something in to take out Aether Vial decks.
@Dragannia - A well-timed Darkness against Infect can be a blowout for them after they use all their pump spells. It's why I like it better than Incursions on a general basis against creature decks. At one mana it may be the best answer short of playing esper and keeping Path mana open all the time.
I used to run Darkness but I really think you need multiple copies and Snapcaster support. A resolved Crypt Incursion against certain decks like Zoo might well be gg, or might buy you three or four turns.
Fog Bank serves as a blocker to protect you from attacks, while the other two get pumped up as you mill them more. personally I prefer Mortivore since it can regenerate, making it useful even before you get some decent cards in their graveyard, but the bestow option for nighthowler allows more flexibility with it, so they are both nice.
Warning: this is just my opinion- The ONLY creatures we should ever consider running (besides Crabs, Snapcasters, and maybe Augur of Bolas) are Jace's Phantasm. For one mana they can be a 5/5 blocker, a 4 turn threat that beats out Celestial Colonnade decks, and you can't get better value out of a creature in a deck like ours. Just make sure you side them out when they bring in grave hate. I don't like Fog Bank in modern since Lightning Bolt still kills it, and the other creatures cost too much mana for what they do. Unless your list is going for a mill-beatdown strategy which is fine, but not as competitive imo.
Guys do you think that Damnation could be a good sideboard card against aggro decks?
Ofc, I run 2 in main, won me many games against aggro matchups, especially jund.and can be last hope against decks like affinity. So in my opinion damnation is a must at least in sideboard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Have you thought about Ensnaring Bridge? Merfolk aggro typically will pump their creatures to enormous levels - an Ensnaring Bridge should hose them because they generally don't bring much bounces (although an Echoing Truth may spell doom for you in one turn).
3 Into the Roil
3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Duress
3 Ensnaring Bridge
Didn't see them, tragically :>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSClJ_-51lQ
its a deck tech from Detroit GP
BTW ponder is banned
and up Glimpse the Unthinkable and Archive Trap to 4
also run 4 breaking//entering
I actually quite like the list from the GP if you have more of a budget you can cut the white
Oboro, Palace in the Clouds helps as a finisher
hedron crab is not nearly as strong without fetches but they are so expensive atm
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Hedron Crab
2 Augur of Bolas
3 Breaking/Entering
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Archive Trap
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Thought Scour
2 Mind Funeral
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Crypt Incursion
4 Path to Exile
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Hide/Seek
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tempest of Light
1 Paraselene
1 Sadistic Sacrament
I started recording my wins about two days ago, but I've played way more games than these.
So far its:
Wins Losses
Tron 1 0
UGR 0 1
Jund 0 1
Storm 1 1
Melira Pod 2 0
WUR Control 1 0
Merfolk 0 1
GW Hatebears 0 1
Living End 0 1
Splinter Twin 1 1
BG Rock 1 3
The BG matchup is giving me headaches. Goyf and Ooze both own us, and the hand destruction is the worst part. I usually side in Leyline of Sanctity but that is only a bandage - they have Maelstrom Pulse and Abrupt Decay to take care of it and Ensnaring Bridge.
Hatebears and Living End are way easier - I usually win against those but it's just these past games I've lost. I really need to find some sideboard tech that's effective against the BG matchup.
I am definitely going to start laying this online a bit. Look fun.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I played Merfolk...very inexperienced player, easy win. She had no answer to ensnaring bridge in her 75. Splinter twin when I blew him out by host quartering my own land to get a white source and cast disenchant...not sure why he went for it with no counter back up. Bogles which I raced g1 and cast ensnaring bridge g2 and prismatic omen valakut- I was just able to remove valakut both games. I lost in the finals to Merfolk. I raced him with damage G1 got land flooded g2 and he had triple snag g3 for my 2 phantasm. The guy even hard cast a mind break trap on my pte for his Lord. I had ensnaring bridge in hand but only 3 lands and 1 blue source so I could never empty my hand of the 2 jace's phantasms he bounced back and cast the bridge at the same time.
Against vengeance, I just happened to have a great hand g1 and was on the play. he thought seized me to find surgical extraction, glimpse, 2snapcaster, and crypt incursion +lands. He took surgical and I flashed it back t2 on the thoughtsieze to find he had kept a triple thoughtsieze hand. I beat him down with my double snapcaster keeping up the crypt incursion just in case. G2 he managed to get Griselbrand in play and I lost to a double attack. G3 I just beat him down. He took too many damage from shocks and thoughtsieze. He hit with an emrakul, but I was holding a land and delver to replay. My second match was against splinter twin combo. I got land flooded G1 with 15 lands in play he had 10 cards left in his library. G2 he had a relic of progenitus in play and rather than waiting for him to tap it at end of turn and target me as had every end step I attempted to surgical his splinter twins which obviously ended badly for me. I knew that was a big mistake and when I sat down to play uwr control for the next match I just did a whole bunch of things that didn't make any sense including some very poor SB decisions. I played mono white hate bears in match 4. I stalled on lands against Thalia g1 and just couldn't get there g2. I needed 1 more turn.
Delver was very good. I will be testing
-4 crab
-1 shell dock
-1 oboro
+1hallowed fountain
+1 drownyard
+4 delver main
+2 extirpate
+1 spell pierce
+1 entreat the angels board
I was lucky enough not to hit any of our bad matchups and drew very well. The worst part was I had the eligibility options incorrectly selected and I didn't get any prizes (got my entry tickets refunded though, but that's a poor substitute.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/userblogs/gemini-spartan/32625-my-gp-richmond-experience
If you don't want to read the play-by-play, the tl;dr version is that mill is good vs combo and not so great vs aggro.
Yes, I've been toying with this list for about 2 months now. I plan to play it for the whole season unless something big changes. I tried playing defender mill with Phenax once that was revealed, but the deck was pretty terrible with a bunch of cards that pretty much did nothing unless Phenax was in play. I also tested out Wight, Phantasm, Nighthowler & Tombstalker (milling myself when the Op had a leyline of Sanctity). But you're right, the graveyard hate made the deck pretty terrible.
Last night I played the deck with the changes I stated above plus I moved PTE to the SB and brought in 2 more Main deck Surgical Extraction.
So my current list is:
4 Jace's Phantasm
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Island
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
2 Crypt Incursion
1 Extirpate
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Thought Scour
4 Visions of Beyond
3 Breaking
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Mind Funeral
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Disenchant
1 Spell Pierce
1 Entreat the Angels
I went 2-2 at FNM last night beating Affinity & Monoblack discard. I lost to U Tron, which is a matchup I find to be very difficult if I'm unable to remove one of the tron pieces and slow it down, & Zoo where I stalled on 2 lands in G1 & G3. In G3 had I drawn a third land I would have been able to cast Crypt Incursion, probably guaranteeing the win as I had cast 2x Trap & 1 Glimpse the Unthinkable. Mana issues are the bane of my existence I am thinking about moving to 4x Darkslick Shores. Choke is an issue & with no more Hedron Crab in the deck, fetches just aren't as necessary. Also, it would keep my life total higher since fetching wouldn't happen as often.
It looks like you are running green just for your SB cards, how has that been for you? Something I am going to test out 1 week is cutting W for G + Life from the Loam in the SB. Turning my Ghost Quarters into Strip Mines with Extraction effects seems like something that is worth at least a test. I've been able to remove enough R sources against Twin/Valakut on several occasions that they couldn't combo out, which makes it seem at least worth a couple days testing to me.
The one match I lost was against U/G Infect. It wasn't even close - he SBed in a bunch of counters that royally screwed me over. I have no idea what to do against this matchup. I lost 0-2.
@Dragannia - A well-timed Darkness against Infect can be a blowout for them after they use all their pump spells. It's why I like it better than Incursions on a general basis against creature decks. At one mana it may be the best answer short of playing esper and keeping Path mana open all the time.
Fog Bank serves as a blocker to protect you from attacks, while the other two get pumped up as you mill them more. personally I prefer Mortivore since it can regenerate, making it useful even before you get some decent cards in their graveyard, but the bestow option for nighthowler allows more flexibility with it, so they are both nice.
Ofc, I run 2 in main, won me many games against aggro matchups, especially jund.and can be last hope against decks like affinity. So in my opinion damnation is a must at least in sideboard.