Myself I was a bit absent in the thread this week, and that is because I had a cold streak recently in the Tournament Practice with many opponents having their hate all the time. I don't know whether it is the best to counter the hate, remove the hate, to ignore the hate, to play around the hate, or to modify my deck to make it less vulnerable to hate. Playing around hate or countering it slows me down so much that it defeats the purpose to play this fast deck, but getting hated out is also not that great. Perhaps I will modify the deck (again).
Well, if you consider the fact that the deck is basically grave based you should know that certainly the side in will be gravehate based.
You must look at your field and try to guess what card will slow down our strategy.
I play with 8-10 cards against grave hate and 5 combo hate at the sideboard, it's pretty solid!
I have been reading about the speed and decided to change up the deck scenario. I switched Demigods for Bloodghasts. I moved all of my Darkblast to the SB, and replaced with 4 Lightning Bolts MB. Since I only have 4 Stinkweed Imp and 4 Vengevine, I feel the BOP are unnecessary with such a low curve. But since damage is an issue, I feel something faster than BOP is necessary. I was thinking a combination of Goblin Guide, Vexing Devil, Legion loyalist, & Grim Lavamancer. I'm looking for ways of pushing damage through early and fast.
I feel that combining the speed of our graveyard, damage from their fetches/shock lands, and early T1 damage like a RDW does, might help seal the deal. This is only for G1. G2/G3 are usually focused on moving in more appropriate removal/getting rid of useless cards.
I had someone from a local game shop ask about SB vs Control. My main SB plan vs control is:
-2 Abrupt Decay
-1 BoP
+2 Golgari Charm
+1 Nihil Spellbomb
Anyone else also have any general plans here?!
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Not even hate, but I have been play testing on Cockatrice a lot recently. One card that I have run into from multiple different people has been the card Hibernation out of Mono-Blue Aggro & Control matchup post SB for G2/G3. I never expect it when I'm playing against them. When I have a Lotleth Troll, Birds of Paradise, and Vengvines out, it really just crushes me. If I don't have four lands, it easily takes two turns to get my board presence back. Watch out for it fellow Dredgeviners!
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24 Creatures :
4 Vengevine : Well, the base of the deck.
4 Lotleth Troll : An alternative kill. He will be near unkillable and grow while we can discard on him.
4 Gravecrawler : Can revive with troll or Shambling shell. Troll won't be killed (except by PtE) and Shell can be dredged.
4 Stinkweed Imp : Dredge 5 + deathtouch flying for 3
3 Golgari Thug : Dredge 4 + can be casted to revive Vine + can put a dredged Troll or whatever on top of deck if needed.
4 Birds of Paradise: Faster = better, stronger + resist Blood Moon + 1CCM : can be easily casted for Vine.
1 Shambling Shell: To be able to endlessly cast Gravecrawler + can put a +1/+1 counter to save a Vine from Bolt or whatever...
10 Instants :
4 Grisly Salvage: put cards in the graveyard and can give me a Troll a whatever creature to cast for Vine or a Land (since I don't want to draw during my turn, having the good land this way is great)
3 Abrupt Decay: I want some control MD to fight twins, pod combo ...
2 Dismember: cheap & usefull
1 Gnaw to the Bone: To survive quite anything (except combo) and buy time. Often gives 10-16LP. One only because it's useless against combo.
6 Sorceries :
4 Faithless Looting: Well... No need to present it. Dredge 10 is OP
1 Raven's Crime: Want discard ? This card is what you need. Casted from grave, insane with Life from the Loam. Very good with Dakmore Salvage. Can ruin a hand in one turn. Especially effective versus controle. One only because I'd prefer being aggressive in the early game. What's more, only 1 Crime is enough to rape a hand.
1 Life from the Loam: To fight hatebear, mana denial in general and to interact with Raven's crime. What's more, as I said, I like to dredge instead of drawing, so this card can give me lands.
Sideboard :
4 Slaughter Games: Insane against any combo. Can be played on turn 3 with birds. Bonus : you can see your opponent hand and deck.
3 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos charm: Good against twin / anything that play with grave / affinity. A must I think.
2 Ancient Grudge: Against affinity and some grave removals.
2 Gnaw to the bone: Versus Burn / Blasts / ...
1 Raven's Crime: Want your discard tool quicklier? Against control and slow decks.
1 Life from the loam: It goes with the Crime.
I don't like : Bloodghast : I don't see what this guy can bring to the deck... He will come back again and again but what for ? 2/1 isn't really scary... And we already have the Gravecrawlers (which can trigger Vine). Hedron Crab: 0/2 on board is pretty useless. His effect is... Well, not good enough IMHO. Grisly salvage does the same work BUT save the card you need in hand. As an instant. What's more Crab can easily be burned. Finally, Faithless Looting & Salvage & Dredge is enough. I don't need him. Thought Scour : doesn't worth a Grisly IMHO. You don't know what you'll discard and what you'll draw. Grim Lavamancer : I have no slot left for him. Besides, I need quite everything that fall into my grave sooner or later. Fatestitcher: A cheaper and quicker version of my Shambling Shell. But Fatestitcher can only be used once. Besides, it doesn't do anything by itself (while Shell has dredge). Rotting rats: It's a good card. But I prefer Crime+Loam or Crime+Salvage. It will be used again and again until the opponent can't keep a single card in hand. It's a harder discard, but it also involves more ressources than Rats do.
What do you guys think about it ?
Basically, I win if there is no Rest In Peace / Blood Moon on the battlefield.
PS : I make apologize for my bad english, it's not my mother tongue.
creamy99 : I usually cast back the Troll, discard the Vines and play the Birds. With 3 mana, you get your whole board again. But... Troll cannot regen that turn sadly.
To me, it appear as a cheap version of Cryptic Command : it buys a turn. Even if we end full mana tap, he won't have the bonus card draw.
24 Creatures :
4 Vengevine : Well, the base of the deck.
4 Lotleth Troll : An alternative kill. He will be near unkillable and grow while we can discard on him.
4 Gravecrawler : Can revive with troll or Shambling shell. Troll won't be killed (except by PtE) and Shell can be dredged.
4 Stinkweed Imp : Dredge 5 + deathtouch flying for 3
3 Golgari Thug : Dredge 4 + can be casted to revive Vine + can put a dredged Troll or whatever on top of deck if needed.
4 Birds of Paradise: Faster = better, stronger + resist Blood Moon + 1CCM : can be easily casted for Vine.
1 Shambling Shell: To be able to endlessly cast Gravecrawler + can put a +1/+1 counter to save a Vine from Bolt or whatever...
10 Instants :
4 Grisly Salvage: put cards in the graveyard and can give me a Troll a whatever creature to cast for Vine or a Land (since I don't want to draw during my turn, having the good land this way is great)
3 Abrupt Decay: I want some control MD to fight twins, pod combo ...
2 Dismember: cheap & usefull
1 Gnaw to the Bone: To survive quite anything (except combo) and buy time. Often gives 10-16LP. One only because it's useless against combo.
6 Sorceries :
4 Faithless Looting: Well... No need to present it. Dredge 10 is OP
1 Raven's Crime: Want discard ? This card is what you need. Casted from grave, insane with Life from the Loam. Very good with Dakmore Salvage. Can ruin a hand in one turn. Especially effective versus controle. One only because I'd prefer being aggressive in the early game. What's more, only 1 Crime is enough to rape a hand.
1 Life from the Loam: To fight hatebear, mana denial in general and to interact with Raven's crime. What's more, as I said, I like to dredge instead of drawing, so this card can give me lands.
Sideboard :
4 Slaughter Games: Insane against any combo. Can be played on turn 3 with birds. Bonus : you can see your opponent hand and deck.
3 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos charm: Good against twin / anything that play with grave / affinity. A must I think.
2 Ancient Grudge: Against affinity and some grave removals.
2 Gnaw to the bone: Versus Burn / Blasts / ...
1 Raven's Crime: Want your discard tool quicklier? Against control and slow decks.
1 Life from the loam: It goes with the Crime.
I don't like : Bloodghast : I don't see what this guy can bring to the deck... He will come back again and again but what for ? 2/1 isn't really scary... And we already have the Gravecrawlers (which can trigger Vine). Hedron Crab: 0/2 on board is pretty useless. His effect is... Well, not good enough IMHO. Grisly salvage does the same work BUT save the card you need in hand. As an instant. What's more Crab can easily be burned. Finally, Faithless Looting & Salvage & Dredge is enough. I don't need him. Thought Scour : doesn't worth a Grisly IMHO. You don't know what you'll discard and what you'll draw. Grim Lavamancer : I have no slot left for him. Besides, I need quite everything that fall into my grave sooner or later. Fatestitcher: A cheaper and quicker version of my Shambling Shell. But Fatestitcher can only be used once. Besides, it doesn't do anything by itself (while Shell has dredge). Rotting rats: It's a good card. But I prefer Crime+Loam or Crime+Salvage. It will be used again and again until the opponent can't keep a single card in hand. It's a harder discard, but it also involves more ressources than Rats do.
What do you guys think about it ?
Basically, I win if there is no Rest In Peace / Blood Moon on the battlefield.
PS : I make apologize for my bad english, it's not my mother tongue.
I like the deck. Cheap, effective. I ran a similar version a few months back, and the birds just sit there and don't do anything (always get bolted...I'd try to go for something that can get more damage through: Goblin Guide, Vexing Devil, etc.
creamy99 : I usually cast back the Troll, discard the Vines and play the Birds. With 3 mana, you get your whole board again. But... Troll cannot regen that turn sadly.
To me, it appear as a cheap version of Cryptic Command : it buys a turn. Even if we end full mana tap, he won't have the bonus card draw.
Against a UW Control deck, my opponent cast Hibernation T5, when I was tapped out / attacking. Only a Gravecrawler actually attacked, which got blocked by a Spirit Token from Moorland Haunt and traded. Then his turn, he cast Baneslayer Angel. I went to get my board position back, but Lotleth Troll got countered by Spell Snare, and I had one land untapped with nothing but Stinkweed Imp and 3 Vengevines in my hand, so I couldn't cast anything. He attacked, I couldn't stop it, GG.
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I do aggre with you but since you're not playing Bloodghast you lose speed on the race, that's why we do play 4 of this buddy, they enter de bf for free and keep comming back every single turn.
You're playing only with 5 removals so Zoo can strike you back with their bodies and Scooze can blow our strategy away. I would consider Lightning Bolt, indeed.
I'm playing with 2 Tymaret, the Murder King it's a pretty solid kill condition at the late game and can avoid Ensnaring Bridge in a Rack field. (In this case you may need bloodghast).
I do aggre with you but since you're not playing Bloodghast you lose speed on the race, that's why we do play 4 of this buddy, they enter de bf for free and keep comming back every single turn.
You're playing only with 5 removals so Zoo can strike you back with their bodies and Scooze can blow our strategy away. I would consider Lightning Bolt, indeed.
I'm playing with 2 Tymaret, the Murder King it's a pretty solid kill condition at the late game and can avoid Ensnaring Bridge in a Rack field. (In this case you may need bloodghast).
Adding to the Tymaret, the Murder King: I have won a few games by attacking with a few creatures. Any creatures that get blocked, sac with Tymaret (unless it's Lotleth Troll due to Trample damage). This allows 2 to the face and we can recur most any creature we sac, so it's guaranteed damage. I love having 4 mana up when I attack with him due to this shenanigans
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Sideboard :
4 Slaughter Games: Insane against any combo. Can be played on turn 3 with birds. Bonus : you can see your opponent hand and deck.
3 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos charm: Good against twin / anything that play with grave / affinity. A must I think.
2 Ancient Grudge: Against affinity and some grave removals.
2 Gnaw to the bone: Versus Burn / Blasts / ...
1 Raven's Crime: Want your discard tool quicklier? Against control and slow decks.
1 Life from the loam: It goes with the Crime.
One thing I would like to add about comments to your SB. I love Golgari Charm. Playing this against Control counters their T4 sweeper, leaving them tapped out with zero creatures, and letting us swing in for massive damage.
Also good vs Bogles for obvious reasons. And helps against Twin if they have a Pestermite combo going!
Sideboard :
4 Slaughter Games: Insane against any combo. Can be played on turn 3 with birds. Bonus : you can see your opponent hand and deck.
3 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos charm: Good against twin / anything that play with grave / affinity. A must I think.
2 Ancient Grudge: Against affinity and some grave removals.
2 Gnaw to the bone: Versus Burn / Blasts / ...
1 Raven's Crime: Want your discard tool quicklier? Against control and slow decks.
1 Life from the loam: It goes with the Crime.
I see that he's not playing Nature's Claim, for me it's 2+ at least.
Tron for me is either a hit or miss. If they exile my Vine/land with karn early, I usually scoop. Sometimes they dont get online and we have to be faster than them. I'm really aggressive with my mulligans vs Tron
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The key to dealing with Tron is disrupting their manabase, ASAP. Running 3 fulminator Mage in the board to hose the tron lands might work. Pithing needle deals with karn. Deglamer might help with wurmcoil
But already our sideboard is so tight to actually fit in Fulminators and Deglamer... Unless we start cutting Ancient Grudge or shatterstorm which makes our deck weaker to Affinity.
Karn is usually OK as they -3 to exile, loyalty drops 3, we can still finish off with weenies or Lightning bolt. Its the Big WURM!
But already our sideboard is so tight to actually fit in Fulminators and Deglamer... Unless we start cutting Ancient Grudge or shatterstorm which makes our deck weaker to Affinity.
Karn is usually OK as they -3 to exile, loyalty drops 3, we can still finish off with weenies or Lightning bolt. Its the Big WURM!
Well, if you notice that Wurmcoil Engine is a Artifact creature you must have some tricks for him in the Sideboard as long as you're using Nature's Claim, Deglamer, Ancient Grudge or something like that, but this only happens on G2, you must try to be fast to defeat Tron as fast as you can before they lock down the game.
The Deathtouch it's not a problem for us, our deck is Grave-based, but the +6 Lifelink will slow down our shenanigans!
@Creamy99 @ John_Armless : Golgari Charm would be for the same match up as Raven's Crime : against Snap/Vendilion/Pestermite...deck. I plan to ruin his hand so he can't draw-attack-go. He will always have to cast (if possible) the card drawn. Creatures already in play don't bother me : I have a Gnaw to the Bone if needed and he will have to block if he doesn't want to die in 2-3 turns. Our creatures will come back anyway. His won't.
I'd happily switch 1-2 pithing needle for a disenchant like (Nature's claim / Ray of revelation). Perhaps Ray is more appropriated since I want something to resp Moon once it's here.
@ John_Armless : I agree with you, Bloodghast would help to put some pressure... But I don't see what I could take out of my pack.
Not even talking of Bolt. I truly don't like it in there. I will only have my 7 cards + 2-3 draws / a whole game (if everything ok). Discarded, Bolt is useless. And Scooze can survive a Bolt if the opponent is clever.
What's more, Zoo can swing all he wants... I will regenerate insane amounts of LP with Gnaw and chump block with Golgari Thug / deathtouch Stinkweed Imp / regenerating Lotleth Troll. Zoo isn't a big deal for what I saw so far.
@Powzhaai1 : No issu against Tron for me... He won't do a thing ('xcept perhaps a Pyroclasm) on the 3 1st turns. Well, I usually have a solid board and some anti-artifacts at that moment. Wurmcoil isn't too much troubles even at g1 : I usually deal Troll (regen) + Dismember or Imp or recurring Shell effect (only 2 turns to reach a 6/5 Vine, can tempo with Imp). His LP doesn't really matters. Sooner or later a big Vines/Troll/Crawlers will settle it.
@John_Armless : I prefer Dismember over Terminate. It can cost less to cast and it is less greedy in colored mana. My personal choice.
Do you guys have enough mana to use Tymaret, the Murder King ? I won't ever have more than 4-5 mana, and always have plenty of things to do with that.
Sideboard :
4 Slaughter Games: Insane against any combo. Can be played on turn 3 with birds. Bonus : you can see your opponent hand and deck.
3 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos charm: Good against twin / anything that play with grave / affinity. A must I think.
2 Ancient Grudge: Against affinity and some grave removals.
2 Gnaw to the bone: Versus Burn / Blasts / ...
1 Raven's Crime: Want your discard tool quicklier? Against control and slow decks.
1 Life from the loam: It goes with the Crime.
One thing I would like to add about comments to your SB. I love Golgari Charm. Playing this against Control counters their T4 sweeper, leaving them tapped out with zero creatures, and letting us swing in for massive damage.
Also good vs Bogles for obvious reasons. And helps against Twin if they have a Pestermite combo going!
Greetings all again: I'm posting this between rounds at my FNM. Here's an update maybe someone will consider.
My best friend came into town. He is an amazing deck builder. We spent all day yesterday (nearly seven hours) at my local GS. He has a custom brew White Weenie / Knight / Combo deck that he's been playing and he went 8-0. Some opponents were solid while others just diddle dallied while he wiped the floor with them. Anyway, he watched me play a few matches against some good decks and just simply put some known facts I never considered.
1. Anything bigger than Vengevine is a waste in my deck aka Demigod of Revenge.
2. He said my deck is so inconsistent because it is so reliant on getting a Vine to my yard.
3. He said boot the Demigod, and change it for a faster win condition. Also, speed up the deck by interchanging Birds of Paradise with something that will put them on a faster clock.
With that being said, I went to: gatherer.wizards.com and did a search for Jund color creatures with CMC <= 3 with graveyard in their text. I got quite a few results, but haven't been able to narrow it down.
What is a good win condition that can meet the following requirements:
1. Faster than Demigod of Revenge aka CMC < 5
2. A beater that helps recur Vengevine. (Note: I don't run fetch lands & I hate Bloodghast since it doesn't trigger Vengevine)
3. Doesn't have to be enabler since I run Faithless Looting, Grisly Salvage & Lotleth Troll.
Note: I'm not exactly sure what would be considered a secondary win condition for a graveyard based deck.
Well... That's why I rely on a control/discard plan too in my deck. Raven's Crime helps a lot in this. (You can make a 3 cards discard T3...)
I don't like so much the interaction Varolz, the scar-striped / Death's Shadow. I think if you have to consider that, you must run 4 Bloodghasts for Varolz regen. Otherwise, he would be too vunerable.
Another idea is the Unburial Rites plan (feat Iona or Elesh Norn or whatever you want).
About birds of paradise... Well, from the viewer point of view, Birds is not that good. No pressure, only accelerating, can be bolted... It was indeed my first opinion on it. But when I played the deck, I felt like birds are the 4 lands that we need to reach 24 and play with only 1-3 draws a game while not running out of mana. And I felt that Birds are better than 4 more lands because of interactions with the rest of the deck (vengevine / Gnaw). Do you guys feel the same or are you going to replace them (or already them) ? And what happened if so ?
Greetings all again: I'm posting this between rounds at my FNM. Here's an update maybe someone will consider.
My best friend came into town. He is an amazing deck builder. We spent all day yesterday (nearly seven hours) at my local GS. He has a custom brew White Weenie / Knight / Combo deck that he's been playing and he went 8-0. Some opponents were solid while others just diddle dallied while he wiped the floor with them. Anyway, he watched me play a few matches against some good decks and just simply put some known facts I never considered.
1. Anything bigger than Vengevine is a waste in my deck aka Demigod of Revenge.
2. He said my deck is so inconsistent because it is so reliant on getting a Vine to my yard.
3. He said boot the Demigod, and change it for a faster win condition. Also, speed up the deck by interchanging Birds of Paradise with something that will put them on a faster clock.
With that being said, I went to: gatherer.wizards.com and did a search for Jund color creatures with CMC <= 3 with graveyard in their text. I got quite a few results, but haven't been able to narrow it down.
What is a good win condition that can meet the following requirements:
1. Faster than Demigod of Revenge aka CMC < 5
2. A beater that helps recur Vengevine. (Note: I don't run fetch lands & I hate Bloodghast since it doesn't trigger Vengevine)
3. Doesn't have to be enabler since I run Faithless Looting, Grisly Salvage & Lotleth Troll.
Note: I'm not exactly sure what would be considered a secondary win condition for a graveyard based deck.
Did you found that creature?!
Let us know more about it!
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Well, if you consider the fact that the deck is basically grave based you should know that certainly the side in will be gravehate based.
You must look at your field and try to guess what card will slow down our strategy.
I play with 8-10 cards against grave hate and 5 combo hate at the sideboard, it's pretty solid!
I feel that combining the speed of our graveyard, damage from their fetches/shock lands, and early T1 damage like a RDW does, might help seal the deal. This is only for G1. G2/G3 are usually focused on moving in more appropriate removal/getting rid of useless cards.
I had someone from a local game shop ask about SB vs Control. My main SB plan vs control is:
-2 Abrupt Decay
-1 BoP
+2 Golgari Charm
+1 Nihil Spellbomb
Anyone else also have any general plans here?!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
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BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Here is my deck :
24 Creatures :
4 Vengevine : Well, the base of the deck.
4 Lotleth Troll : An alternative kill. He will be near unkillable and grow while we can discard on him.
4 Gravecrawler : Can revive with troll or Shambling shell. Troll won't be killed (except by PtE) and Shell can be dredged.
4 Stinkweed Imp : Dredge 5 + deathtouch flying for 3
3 Golgari Thug : Dredge 4 + can be casted to revive Vine + can put a dredged Troll or whatever on top of deck if needed.
4 Birds of Paradise: Faster = better, stronger + resist Blood Moon + 1CCM : can be easily casted for Vine.
1 Shambling Shell: To be able to endlessly cast Gravecrawler + can put a +1/+1 counter to save a Vine from Bolt or whatever...
10 Instants :
4 Grisly Salvage: put cards in the graveyard and can give me a Troll a whatever creature to cast for Vine or a Land (since I don't want to draw during my turn, having the good land this way is great)
3 Abrupt Decay: I want some control MD to fight twins, pod combo ...
2 Dismember: cheap & usefull
1 Gnaw to the Bone: To survive quite anything (except combo) and buy time. Often gives 10-16LP. One only because it's useless against combo.
6 Sorceries :
4 Faithless Looting: Well... No need to present it. Dredge 10 is OP
1 Raven's Crime: Want discard ? This card is what you need. Casted from grave, insane with Life from the Loam. Very good with Dakmore Salvage. Can ruin a hand in one turn. Especially effective versus controle. One only because I'd prefer being aggressive in the early game. What's more, only 1 Crime is enough to rape a hand.
1 Life from the Loam: To fight hatebear, mana denial in general and to interact with Raven's crime. What's more, as I said, I like to dredge instead of drawing, so this card can give me lands.
20 Lands :
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Woodland cemetery
2 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Dakmore Salvage
1 Forest
1 Swamp
--> I usually pay 2-3 lifes the 1st turn, and quite nothing after that. 3 colors are good enough in this deck, so manabase is quite easy to make and can take 2 Dakmore Salvages.
Sideboard :
4 Slaughter Games: Insane against any combo. Can be played on turn 3 with birds. Bonus : you can see your opponent hand and deck.
3 Pithing Needle
2 Rakdos charm: Good against twin / anything that play with grave / affinity. A must I think.
2 Ancient Grudge: Against affinity and some grave removals.
2 Gnaw to the bone: Versus Burn / Blasts / ...
1 Raven's Crime: Want your discard tool quicklier? Against control and slow decks.
1 Life from the loam: It goes with the Crime.
I don't like :
Bloodghast : I don't see what this guy can bring to the deck... He will come back again and again but what for ? 2/1 isn't really scary... And we already have the Gravecrawlers (which can trigger Vine).
Hedron Crab: 0/2 on board is pretty useless. His effect is... Well, not good enough IMHO. Grisly salvage does the same work BUT save the card you need in hand. As an instant. What's more Crab can easily be burned. Finally, Faithless Looting & Salvage & Dredge is enough. I don't need him.
Thought Scour : doesn't worth a Grisly IMHO. You don't know what you'll discard and what you'll draw.
Grim Lavamancer : I have no slot left for him. Besides, I need quite everything that fall into my grave sooner or later.
Fatestitcher: A cheaper and quicker version of my Shambling Shell. But Fatestitcher can only be used once. Besides, it doesn't do anything by itself (while Shell has dredge).
Rotting rats: It's a good card. But I prefer Crime+Loam or Crime+Salvage. It will be used again and again until the opponent can't keep a single card in hand. It's a harder discard, but it also involves more ressources than Rats do.
What do you guys think about it ?
Basically, I win if there is no Rest In Peace / Blood Moon on the battlefield.
PS : I make apologize for my bad english, it's not my mother tongue.
Palefang Dawnfall
To me, it appear as a cheap version of Cryptic Command : it buys a turn. Even if we end full mana tap, he won't have the bonus card draw.
Palefang Dawnfall
I like the deck. Cheap, effective. I ran a similar version a few months back, and the birds just sit there and don't do anything (always get bolted...I'd try to go for something that can get more damage through: Goblin Guide, Vexing Devil, etc.
I get that, but I guess to clarify.
Against Mono-U Aggro, my opponent cast a Vapor Snag on a recurred Vengevine, then when I got it back online on T4 and tapped out to hardcast the vine, my opponent cast Hibernation. I went to get everything back on T5, he went Snapcaster Mage / Cryptic Command, and swung for lethal with 6 other power on board from a Mutavault, Snapcaster Mage, and Delver of Secrets.
Against a UW Control deck, my opponent cast Hibernation T5, when I was tapped out / attacking. Only a Gravecrawler actually attacked, which got blocked by a Spirit Token from Moorland Haunt and traded. Then his turn, he cast Baneslayer Angel. I went to get my board position back, but Lotleth Troll got countered by Spell Snare, and I had one land untapped with nothing but Stinkweed Imp and 3 Vengevines in my hand, so I couldn't cast anything. He attacked, I couldn't stop it, GG.
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GMono-Green AggroG
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Long post mode [ON].
I do aggre with you but since you're not playing Bloodghast you lose speed on the race, that's why we do play 4 of this buddy, they enter de bf for free and keep comming back every single turn.
You're playing only with 5 removals so Zoo can strike you back with their bodies and Scooze can blow our strategy away. I would consider Lightning Bolt, indeed.
I'm playing with 2 Tymaret, the Murder King it's a pretty solid kill condition at the late game and can avoid Ensnaring Bridge in a Rack field. (In this case you may need bloodghast).
Adding to the Tymaret, the Murder King: I have won a few games by attacking with a few creatures. Any creatures that get blocked, sac with Tymaret (unless it's Lotleth Troll due to Trample damage). This allows 2 to the face and we can recur most any creature we sac, so it's guaranteed damage. I love having 4 mana up when I attack with him due to this shenanigans
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
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One thing I would like to add about comments to your SB. I love Golgari Charm. Playing this against Control counters their T4 sweeper, leaving them tapped out with zero creatures, and letting us swing in for massive damage.
Also good vs Bogles for obvious reasons. And helps against Twin if they have a Pestermite combo going!
Slaughter Games does work, so maybe replace 1-2 Pithing Needles?!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
I see that he's not playing Nature's Claim, for me it's 2+ at least.
Btw, it's Raven's Crime really usefull!?
Wurmcoil early is a pain and we dont have enough tools to disrupt them....
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Karn is usually OK as they -3 to exile, loyalty drops 3, we can still finish off with weenies or Lightning bolt. Its the Big WURM!
Well, if you notice that Wurmcoil Engine is a Artifact creature you must have some tricks for him in the Sideboard as long as you're using Nature's Claim, Deglamer, Ancient Grudge or something like that, but this only happens on G2, you must try to be fast to defeat Tron as fast as you can before they lock down the game.
The Deathtouch it's not a problem for us, our deck is Grave-based, but the +6 Lifelink will slow down our shenanigans!
For G1 i use 2 Terminate on MD to take away some trobles like Phyrexian Obliterator or Brimaz, King of Oreskos.
I'd happily switch 1-2 pithing needle for a disenchant like (Nature's claim / Ray of revelation). Perhaps Ray is more appropriated since I want something to resp Moon once it's here.
@ John_Armless : I agree with you, Bloodghast would help to put some pressure... But I don't see what I could take out of my pack.
Not even talking of Bolt. I truly don't like it in there. I will only have my 7 cards + 2-3 draws / a whole game (if everything ok). Discarded, Bolt is useless. And Scooze can survive a Bolt if the opponent is clever.
What's more, Zoo can swing all he wants... I will regenerate insane amounts of LP with Gnaw and chump block with Golgari Thug / deathtouch Stinkweed Imp / regenerating Lotleth Troll. Zoo isn't a big deal for what I saw so far.
@Powzhaai1 : No issu against Tron for me... He won't do a thing ('xcept perhaps a Pyroclasm) on the 3 1st turns. Well, I usually have a solid board and some anti-artifacts at that moment. Wurmcoil isn't too much troubles even at g1 : I usually deal Troll (regen) + Dismember or Imp or recurring Shell effect (only 2 turns to reach a 6/5 Vine, can tempo with Imp). His LP doesn't really matters. Sooner or later a big Vines/Troll/Crawlers will settle it.
@John_Armless : I prefer Dismember over Terminate. It can cost less to cast and it is less greedy in colored mana. My personal choice.
Do you guys have enough mana to use Tymaret, the Murder King ? I won't ever have more than 4-5 mana, and always have plenty of things to do with that.
And yes, I use and love my birds
Palefang Dawnfall
It also stops Twin comboing off just by destroying the Splinter Twin.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
My best friend came into town. He is an amazing deck builder. We spent all day yesterday (nearly seven hours) at my local GS. He has a custom brew White Weenie / Knight / Combo deck that he's been playing and he went 8-0. Some opponents were solid while others just diddle dallied while he wiped the floor with them. Anyway, he watched me play a few matches against some good decks and just simply put some known facts I never considered.
1. Anything bigger than Vengevine is a waste in my deck aka Demigod of Revenge.
2. He said my deck is so inconsistent because it is so reliant on getting a Vine to my yard.
3. He said boot the Demigod, and change it for a faster win condition. Also, speed up the deck by interchanging Birds of Paradise with something that will put them on a faster clock.
With that being said, I went to: gatherer.wizards.com and did a search for Jund color creatures with CMC <= 3 with graveyard in their text. I got quite a few results, but haven't been able to narrow it down.
What is a good win condition that can meet the following requirements:
1. Faster than Demigod of Revenge aka CMC < 5
2. A beater that helps recur Vengevine. (Note: I don't run fetch lands & I hate Bloodghast since it doesn't trigger Vengevine)
3. Doesn't have to be enabler since I run Faithless Looting, Grisly Salvage & Lotleth Troll.
Note: I'm not exactly sure what would be considered a secondary win condition for a graveyard based deck.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Well... That's why I rely on a control/discard plan too in my deck. Raven's Crime helps a lot in this. (You can make a 3 cards discard T3...)
I don't like so much the interaction Varolz, the scar-striped / Death's Shadow. I think if you have to consider that, you must run 4 Bloodghasts for Varolz regen. Otherwise, he would be too vunerable.
Another idea is the Unburial Rites plan (feat Iona or Elesh Norn or whatever you want).
About birds of paradise... Well, from the viewer point of view, Birds is not that good. No pressure, only accelerating, can be bolted... It was indeed my first opinion on it. But when I played the deck, I felt like birds are the 4 lands that we need to reach 24 and play with only 1-3 draws a game while not running out of mana. And I felt that Birds are better than 4 more lands because of interactions with the rest of the deck (vengevine / Gnaw). Do you guys feel the same or are you going to replace them (or already them) ? And what happened if so ?
Palefang Dawnfall
Did you found that creature?!
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