But so far I havent really found a place for blooghast in the least and honestly I havent really had the need for him. During playtesting I got a turn 3 win. It probably will never happen again but hey, what the heck.
Yeah, I really just threw the bloodghast note in there because I saw they were included in Shinigami_E's list a few posts ago.
There is a big thing you may be overlooking, DrW, and that is vengevine's actual ability. It says "if it was the second creature spell cast this turn". That means the skeleton doesn't work with it when you bring it on to the battlefield from the grave. However, Haakon and gravecrawler do.
Not to mention that Haakon works with gravecrawler, as previously stated.
As a side note, bloodghast also doesn't help vengevine... but that isn't to say they are bad in this deck. They still work with the graveyard aggressive strategy.
As you pointed out, Bloodghast doesn't help the Vengevine trigger but I basically see him as a better Narcomeba for this build, mainly due to the point of it coming back over and over again.
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"Life is cheap, death is expensive." Ankh-Morpork Assassin's Guild motto.
There is a big thing you may be overlooking, DrW, and that is vengevine's actual ability. It says "if it was the second creature spell cast this turn". That means the skeleton doesn't work with it when you bring it on to the battlefield from the grave. However, Haakon and gravecrawler do.
Thanks, I missed that.
EDIT: In my attempt not to have to buy Haakon MODO I am looking at alternatives, and there are a couple, but they are not creatures: Raven's Crime and Deadly Allure. RC can be used a bit more liberally, but Allure (if you cast it and then flash it back) can result in some handsome removal via combat.
I originally had crime in my build but decided to become a more creature heavy deck, and mostly I use skeins to outright throw my vengevines an haakons into the grave within he first few turns. I might try out ravens crime though since its a probable turn one dredge enabler.
If you're more combo oriented, then crime isn't all that good for you. If you want to win a war of attrition, then life from the loam + raven's crime is going to make life hell for your opponent.
I originally had crime in my build but decided to become a more creature heavy deck, and mostly I use skeins to outright throw my vengevines an haakons into the grave within he first few turns. I might try out ravens crime though since its a probable turn one dredge enabler.
I was thinking that it would be a great way to get your two spells played, then I saw that it needed to be "creature" spells. I might drop one in anyway.
I have to admit that this deck underwent a few light changes after reading through this thread. It actually plays pretty well, though I am a bit slow when I play due to having to be really careful what lands I have in play.
I posted my updated list in the First post. I like how the magus works in yours! I never really thought about alchemy and it seems a little bad to be honest. Does it work well for you? I cant justify a spell that has a flashback of 6ish since I hope that I win t5/t6.
I posted my updated list in the First post. I like how the magus works in yours! I never really thought about alchemy and it seems a little bad to be honest. Does it work well for you? I cant justify a spell that has a flashback of 6ish since I hope that I win t5/t6.
There are only two, and I rarely pay it's flashback- I only cast it from my hand.
It's actually really good, xavier..It is similar to what delirum skeins does in yours, except that it's an instant and doesn't actually drop anything already in your hand. It's not bad tech for a deck like this at 2x. Note that it's terrible with dredgers, however.
That does seem to be true, It seems like it would be good If i cant get any vines into my hand, But during playtesting ive noticed that Ive been able to turn 2 a delerium (off a bird and land drops) and dropped in at least one vine ((some times two)) and a Haakon/Gravecrawler to set up a nice vengevine entrance next turn. And I just find that skeins hurts my opponent as well, someone had even called it devilsihly cruel and that they didnt see it coming.
If I ever get tired of it though ill see i I can find a way to bring in the Loam + Raven's crime or if i should go with alchemy.
Im kind of thinking about using the raven's crime + Life from the loam combo instead of my dream skeins, is that a good idea or no? Crime is cheaper, but three cards can be brutal!
I like Crime because baring grave-removal, it is something you can use to put control pressure on your opponent the entire game. Sometimes relentless single discard over time is more oppressive than a big hit once. Besides, when you have Loam you really have access to more land than you can use, so this puts use to them.
I just feel that since I try to win turn 5/6 the discard f three on turn three could be detrimental enough, but in longer games (where i just cant seem to dredge things together) Raven would be better. Ill give it a try
I was thinking that it would be a great way to get your two spells played, then I saw that it needed to be "creature" spells. I might drop one in anyway.
I have to admit that this deck underwent a few light changes after reading through this thread. It actually plays pretty well, though I am a bit slow when I play due to having to be really careful what lands I have in play.
Why don't you try out City of Brass, they have been working out for me pretty well they make just about every hand a keep as long as I have a dredge card and/or an outlet.
I just feel that since I try to win turn 5/6 the discard f three on turn three could be detrimental enough, but in longer games (where i just cant seem to dredge things together) Raven would be better. Ill give it a try
Raven's Crime should be better for the deck in general compared to Delirium Skeins.
Turn 1 you can use it as a discard outlet so you can dredge next turn, you can use it even after you dredge it into the yard or if your playing Hedron Crab and mill it into the yard and like everyone knows its a power house with Life from the Loam.
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"Life is cheap, death is expensive." Ankh-Morpork Assassin's Guild motto.
Turn 1 you can use it as a discard outlet so you can dredge next turn, you can use it even after you dredge it into the yard or if your playing Hedron Crab and mill it into the yard and like everyone knows its a power house with Life from the Loam.
Oh yea, In playtesting I had nothing better to do so I just used it 3 times 2 turns in a row...and pretty much destroyed my opponents hand.
I just feel that since I try to win turn 5/6 the discard f three on turn three could be detrimental enough, but in longer games (where i just cant seem to dredge things together) Raven would be better. Ill give it a try
I guess I look at it more like what turn do I usually win on rather than one turn I want to win on. If you are consistantly winning on turn 5 then perhaps you should not consider Raven's Crime (and perhaps we should also be running your list, LOL), but if you are grinding out wins on turn 6-7+ then perhaps your list should make the best of it.
Why don't you try out City of Brass, they have been working out for me pretty well they make just about every hand a keep as long as I have a dredge card and/or an outlet.
I almost never have to mulligan due to color access either, as I have a lot of over-lapping fetch/shock pairs, and I like having fetchlands in my yard so that I can actually grab something with LftL. My mulligans are generally due to land screw/flood.
Lolz well im truing it out! Makes me feel like im kind of playing a slight ammount of control xD.
But ive had a nice range of wins, turn 3, 4,5, 6-8ish it all depends on that darn shuffle, and me noticing that i have two thugs in hand, all vines in my yard, but not dropping them cuznim looking for my crawlers Dx
Lolz, I have three Haakons and 4 gravecrawlers. Ive had 2 games recently where they were all on the bottom, of course casting an imp and a thug turn 5 to get three to four vines from my grave was nice lol
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Yeah, I really just threw the bloodghast note in there because I saw they were included in Shinigami_E's list a few posts ago.
As you pointed out, Bloodghast doesn't help the Vengevine trigger but I basically see him as a better Narcomeba for this build, mainly due to the point of it coming back over and over again.
EDIT: In my attempt not to have to buy Haakon MODO I am looking at alternatives, and there are a couple, but they are not creatures: Raven's Crime and Deadly Allure. RC can be used a bit more liberally, but Allure (if you cast it and then flash it back) can result in some handsome removal via combat.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
I might as well post my build:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Gravecrawler
4 Hedron Crab
4 Vengevine
3 Golgari Thug
3 Stinkweed Imp
3 Magus of the Bazaar
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Other Spells:
4 Faithless Looting
2 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Life from the Loam
1 Unburial Rites
4 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
3 Misty Rainforests
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Dispel
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Maelstrom Pulse
I have to admit that this deck underwent a few light changes after reading through this thread. It actually plays pretty well, though I am a bit slow when I play due to having to be really careful what lands I have in play.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
If I ever get tired of it though ill see i I can find a way to bring in the Loam + Raven's crime or if i should go with alchemy.
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Im kind of thinking about using the raven's crime + Life from the loam combo instead of my dream skeins, is that a good idea or no? Crime is cheaper, but three cards can be brutal!
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I just feel that since I try to win turn 5/6 the discard f three on turn three could be detrimental enough, but in longer games (where i just cant seem to dredge things together) Raven would be better. Ill give it a try
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Why don't you try out City of Brass, they have been working out for me pretty well they make just about every hand a keep as long as I have a dredge card and/or an outlet.
Raven's Crime should be better for the deck in general compared to Delirium Skeins.
Turn 1 you can use it as a discard outlet so you can dredge next turn, you can use it even after you dredge it into the yard or if your playing Hedron Crab and mill it into the yard and like everyone knows its a power house with Life from the Loam.
Oh yea, In playtesting I had nothing better to do so I just used it 3 times 2 turns in a row...and pretty much destroyed my opponents hand.
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
I almost never have to mulligan due to color access either, as I have a lot of over-lapping fetch/shock pairs, and I like having fetchlands in my yard so that I can actually grab something with LftL. My mulligans are generally due to land screw/flood.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
But ive had a nice range of wins, turn 3, 4,5, 6-8ish it all depends on that darn shuffle, and me noticing that i have two thugs in hand, all vines in my yard, but not dropping them cuznim looking for my crawlers Dx
I just need to open up for more priorities
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Standard:
WBGJunk MidrangeWBG
Modern
WUBGKiki PodWUBG
EDH:
WUBRGReaper King PodWUBRG