Just getting back into playing some modern. Bant has always been my choice because of all the variations you can play. First and foremost; we are a beatdown deck. Turn 2 Geist is almost game-over for alot of decks.
I have done away with swords. They are just to clunky for me. Planeswalkers are more versatile imo. the Ajani and Finks synergy also makes it into my deck.
I am maindecking 5 pieces of countermagic. SB I have put 5 more pieces.
scavenging ooze is another top notch card. Just hates on so many decks. Random lifegain can also save you. Love, love, love this and will post my full list after some more playtesting. Glad cocktrice is back up as well.
Hello, I'm a GW hatebear player, that is looking try out bant. Even though the deck is two colors it still has trouble with Blood Moon and since it runs arbiters, doesn't run fetches for basics and allow for big Kotr's. The hate in GW can also be marginal/detrimental at times and occasionally doesn't beat hard enough/have a reliable finisher.
Bant looks interesting to me, since I get to play counters and still have large beaters.
I just have a few starter questions:
I'm curious if unified will gets any consideration since it only looks terrible against small zoo, soul sisters, and merfolk?
Does Gavony Township also get a nod, or does the deck generally not have that kind of mana to spare?
Without GSZ/ponder, there's no effective tutor/deck manipulation, so does the deck run into a lot of inconsistencies/rely on good draws (Horizon canopy can kind of help)?
Can the deck be very vulnerable to supreme verdict? Elspeth helps here.
I've never been a huge fan of the D&T style flicker train since it can torpor orb (which I also like in my sb), how great are things like snapcaster, resto, flickerwisp (especiialy without aether vial), but more importantly how good is Vendillion in this deck?
Hello VitaminJ's, I switched from GW Hate Bears to Bant myself and honestly have loved the switch. Blood moon is annoying and thats one of the reasons I always try to keep 1 basic of each color in my decks (if possible).
For your questions I've just now started putting in more counters into my list so I haven't tried unified will but it doesn't seem as consistent as Spell Pierce, leak, or spell snare, mostly from the decks you listed above.
Gavony would be a fine land and I have had times where I would have enough empty mana to dump into gavony but I haven't actually tested it yet.
There aren't many times I've had inconsistencies without having mulligans or not keeping a good hand. Horizon could help and I've considered switching to Remand to add card draw.
Supreme Verdict can hurt but as long as you don't over extend turn after you can normally play a creature. Thats a reason why I like this deck is that there are a very good selection beaters and you really only need 1-2 on the board to keep presence.
I don't run any flickering effects in the deck nor Vendillion (mostly cause of price) but lots of people do run Vendillion and have success with it. Snapcaster is good if you have more spells in the board, resto could be good to sace a creature but I've considered adding Simic Charm to do that same effect. Flickerwisp is something I'd consider adding before resto.
Another option for the beatdown route is using Rafiq + Kira. Kira protects your attackers from a single removal spell, but she prevents you from playing Elspeth profitably, so choose wisely. Geist is still decent, but something like Loxodon Smiter might be better since he dodges lightning bolt/electrolyze as well as remand/mana leak, and even discard effects. I know he's vanilla, but still, thats plenty of power for 3 dollars. I still like Geist, but I think loxodon smiter may be better. I think that Bant should be playing Restoration Angel, just because 3/4, flash and flying, plus might save a dude is stupid power, I mean, seriously. I really think the best counter options mainboard are mana leak or spell pierce, but I prefer mana leak game one since it is more generic, therefore more flexible.
Giving Bant Blades a try. Normally play UWr Geist but this deck seemed like a lot more fun. Wondering if my card choices are ok, spell snare might be a little weak but I am doing well in testing. My game plan is pretty much try to turn 3 Geist or Smiter and eventually slap a sword on it.
Would love some advice on SB and Mana-base tuning. My creature splits may also not be optimal. War Monk is mostly in there due to lots of affinity and burn in my meta.
I really like the list DrLime! After some play with Spell Snare I quickly changed it to a couple Remand. I've never tried any equipment but make geist or Rhox bigger seems sweet. With the amount of man lands and Tec edges it could really hurt on a mulligan not being able to do a turn 1 noble/ bird I would take out 1-2 of those and you could take out a land in general (my build only has 20 lands. For sideboard maybe add some kitchen finks or burrenton forge-dender for mono red match-ups.
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Modern Deck(s) BRWMardu MidrangeBRW GRA GR TronGRA
Standard Deck(s) UW UW Heroic UW BRWMardu AggroBRW
DrLime: your list looks really, really familiar! I like it a lot. I think the manabase is actually identical to mine, except I split 1 Horizon Canopy and 1 Tec Edge. Rhox War Monk is underrated in Modern, right now. He's a blowout if unanswered against just about any aggro or even midrangey deck.
I will have to look at my list when I get home, but I know I am always switching back and forth between a swords package (with a singleton Steelshaper's Gift) and an Aura package. I tend to prefer auras, namely Spirit Mantle, just because they're so much faster. I've also been hooked on charms, lately. Maybe they're a little cute, but I run a 3/3 split of Bant Charm and Simic Charm in my list with permission relegated to the sideboard. Charms just have incredible depth.
I don't know how I feel about charms, I really like cards that can always 1 for 1 and sometimes the charms fall short in that respect. I don't really like bant charm because this deck really want to be tapping at least two lands a turn. This makes holding up more than 2 mana for responses pretty difficult. I tweaked the mana base a bit. Traded away man lands for better turn 1 consistency. CIPT lands are really horrible in this deck. Cut a scooze for another Elspeth because she wins more games than any other card in the deck (except maybe Geist of course). Also added Mirran Crusaders in the SB for the GB rock matchups. In those matchups he is basically True-Name nemesis on steroids with pro "their entire deck". An Elspeth +3 turns him into a flying 10/10. Scary stuff.
Edit:
I prefer swords honestly because they let you attack with one dude and then re-equip to block on another. It can save you a lot of games. Swords and aura's both get blown out by the same maindeck cards (abrubt decay, quasali)and a swords being destroyed can be a bigger problem than an aura, but swords have the advantage of not be able to go to a Spellskite which is HUGE in this meta. If it were not for spellskite I would consider aura's but in this meta I think the swords are just much better. They also generate CA and can turn the dorks into threats late game, which are two major problems this deck has.
After 2 consecutive 8-0 finishes followed by a 4-0 this deck has earned me 2 1/2 boxes of RTR, which I am very happy about.
The deck has a fantastic, almost guaranteed, UWR control match-up. Between Geist and most of our creatures being out of bolt range, we can quickly clock them out before they can stabilize. Even if they tap out to wrath we can respond with more threats or by slamming Elspeth, which usually can just win on her own. The deck also has very even match-ups against most of the modern field, I really don't understand why this deck does not see more play. In testing it seems fantastic.
Did a lot of math to streamline the mana base. Added Knight of the Reliquary over Rhox War Monk. Knight is a bigger threat that is worse against aggro but is much better in almost every other match-up. Knight also allows us to tutor Ghost quarter and Gavony at instant speed which can give us game against tron and other zoo decks. Cut Fire and Ice from the main deck for War and Peace. I wanted another way to gain life main deck now that Rhox was gone, the protection colors are also much more relevant. Having protection from green, black, white, and red protects us from just about everything except main deck threads of disloyalty.
I really think that this deck is incredibly strong. I have played and own almost every deck in Modern and every week I sleeve this up and play it. It is also hilariously fun to play.
Thinking about splashing red for bolt (yikes 4 color seems rough though), or moving some things around to make room for Tarmogoyf. I don't love goyf in a deck with no sorceries, but we can hope our opponents play them.
@BaskingMongrel
For affinity I board out Feast and Famine, Elspeth, and 2 mana leak. Elspeth is too slow, Snare is just better than leak and for the most part I can ignore Etched Champion, and Feast and Famine really does nothing for us in this match-up. Affinity was a much better match=up when I had Rhox and has gotten a bit harder now that I have Knight instead. Save Path for fliers, you beat them on the ground all day long. Even a pumped up Ravager is usually smaller than your Knight. Also you can tutor a GQ in response to an equip to kill a man land. I really do not worry about Galvanic Blast since most affinity lists are running Thought-cast instead. Also never board out ooze, every point of life you can gain against affinity matters.
Brimaz is a good card, but is worse than our other three drops by a large margin. He is smaller than Knight, worse than Smiter against Jund and UWR, and comes no where close to the power level of Geist. He is also a Legend so you can't play multiples of him. I even think Rhox War Monk is better due to the life gain and we don't even have room for him. He has a good interaction with swords, and is good against Zoo but I don't think that is enough to give him an inclusion. If you have your heart set on him though I would cut 1 Knight and 1 Geist.
I just don't know how I feel about KoTR. I kind of like Rhox better, or at least a split. Also I agree with what someone said earlier in this thread in that I don't like counterspells in this deck.
With the more aggro build that is. It really is a fine line, but optimally building it for aggro or control and not half and half imo
The whole reason we play blue is for counter magic. If you want to cut counters you also cut blue and play Naya zoo instead. Counters give this deck a back up plan for turns one and two if we don't draw a dork. Counters also let us beat things that you normally can't with just a pile of creatures. This deck wants counters. If the mana could take it I would even consider cryptic. Counter magic is the most unfair and versatile thing in magic. Play it in every deck you build of you want to win.
Don't play them in a split. If your meta is mostly aggro and burn then play Rhox. If your meta is filled with midrange, control and combo play Knight. Knight lets you turn your mana base into a toolbox. He is also simply a huge beater that provides a faster clock than Rhox. Rhox is just a way to stall out aggro and burn. Combo ignores him, Midrange can outclass him, and Control removes him much easier than Knight via path or double bolt.
The whole reason we play blue is for counter magic. If you want to cut counters you also cut blue and play Naya zoo instead. Counters give this deck a back up plan for turns one and two if we don't draw a dork. Counters also let us beat things that you normally can't with just a pile of creatures. This deck wants counters. If the mana could take it I would even consider cryptic. Counter magic is the most unfair and versatile thing in magic. Play it in every deck you build of you want to win.
Don't play them in a split. If your meta is mostly aggro and burn then play Rhox. If your meta is filled with midrange, control and combo play Knight. Knight lets you turn your mana base into a toolbox. He is also simply a huge beater that provides a faster clock than Rhox. Rhox is just a way to stall out aggro and burn. Combo ignores him, Midrange can outclass him, and Control removes him much easier than Knight via path or double bolt.
Strong points. I didn't mean to imply cutting blue alltogether, I just meant for example in your list (which I like a lot)
Simpy making these changes:
-3 Mana Leak
-3 Spell Snare
+2 Bant Charm
+2 Simic Charm
+2 Psionic Blast
At first I was extremely hesitant of Spell Snare, but looking at decklists of popular decks it has more targets that I initially thought.
Thoughts on my changes?
Also, could you do a SB guide for your list? Most seems straight forward but what you side Out is what is most important, obviously.
Also, 4 Smiters seems like too much. A brimaz or 2 in his spot would be so nice. Or Rhox.
I really do not like your changes. You can do what you want with the deck, and in certain situations almost anything can be good, but here are my opinions.
Bant Charm is a great card and is interchangeable with Mana Leak. It hurts your early game but makes your late game a bit better. You can't beat Scapeshift game one now though.
Simic Charm is a "cute" card. It is really bad most of the time. Sure it will save you in some situations where Mana Leak would do nothing, but most of the time I would rather just have a counter spell. If your meta has no combo decks and a lot of control decks I could see Simic Charm being "ok".
Psionic Blast is only good because it is so bad. No one thinks you will have it (or even knows that it exists) so they will not play around it, giving you surprise wins and blowouts. 3 mana is a lot for a 4 damage effect, let alone one that hurts you, and I would rather play any of the other cards listed. If you want burn, splash two stomping grounds and play Bolt.
Spell Snare is a meta card, In my meta I need it for Cranial Plating, Goryo's Vengeance, Tarmogoyf, Bob, and it also lets me play Geist through counter magic against UWR. Snare is amazing in Modern and is rarely dead, almost every deck has something you can counter with it. It also gives you game against boggles by countering Daybreak Coronet. Boggles is pretty miserable if they get life gain going and we need counters main deck to beat them.
Smiter is the best card in this deck, period. If I could play 10 I would. My meta is full of Jund and discard so he really is a work horse. You can cut two for other three drops but I would advise against it.
My SB changes weekly depending on what decks I see or think will be at a tournament. Play what beats your meta. If everyone at your LGS plays affinity play a sideboard of 15 artifact hate cards. My LGS has two mill players who come once in a while. When I see them I cut a Mirran Crusader for an Emrakul. Sideboarding is all about meta gaming and I really cant make a guide for it. The general principle is to take out cards that are bad and put in cards that are good. If you tell me what your meta is like I can construct a sideboard for you and tell you how to use it.
In General here are some tips:
Always have two swords in the deck, pick the colors/effects that are the most relevant.
Against aggro: Cut Mana Leak and bring in more creatures as blockers.
Against control: Cut birds and board in more counters and Thrun. If they play Clique and 4x Snapcaster, you can cut Qasali for Torpor Orb.
Against combo: There are so many combos in modern. Different cards are relevant against each. In combo matchups you want to cut the support creatures that do nothing and Elspeth for relevant hate cards.
Against midrange: I usually cut support creatures and bring in more swords and Thrun. My meta has a lot of Jund so I also bring in Crusader in those match ups.
My meta has most everything, but consistently Blue Moon, affinity, american control, pod, twin, fish, grixis control, b/w tokens, tron, junk, jund, faeries
always have 2 swords in deck? even affinity, storm?
against midrange bring in more swords? ever more than 2?
even thrun when they cant counter? just for his regenerate?
Long time follower of this thread, first time poster. I've been playing Bant ever since it was a thing in Alara Standard. It's probably my favorite deck to play. I've played all different versions over the years, but this is my most recent list.
A lot of the staples in Bant are staples for a reason; they do work and get paid. Geist can turn games around on his own with the help of Elspeth and exalted triggers. Smiter has proven great vs aggro, midrange, and control. Rhox War Monk is one of my favorite choices (mostly because he is a rhino monk) but he's nothing to sneeze at. 3/4 life link has saved my butt vs burn, Merfolk, Aura Boggle, and a host of other midrange and aggro decks. I don't have swords, but Elspeth has been working out. Don't really mind seeing multiple, just means I can be riskier with them.
Originally, I ran Deathrite Shaman but after banning, I had to run BoP. Losing some punch, I looked to Voice and Simic Charm to fill the void. Voice seems good, but I'm not certain if I want more or less or something else instead. I'm almost always happy to see Simic Charm. Bounce and Hexproof are nice, but the surprise +3/+3 has turned games around. Great with Geist, either pump him to kill blockers, or pump the angel to finish them off. Not married to Bant Charm, but it is versatile, and I like to be able to handle a variety of decks. Countering an early ritual in Storm, or knocking out a Cryptic Command or Sphinx's Revelation can make or break games.
SB I'm always tweaking, but these are in general the cards I run in it. Affinity is a tough match up, so I may need a third Creeping Corrosion.
Always open to new ideas. Gotta evolve to stay relevant.
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Kyle........you're ridiculous lol. Trying to hijack the Bant Thread. Cut 1 Elspeth, add some Restoration Angels! I also think for what its worth, Sword of War Peace is pretty sweet in Modern because pro lightning bolt and path to exile is awesome. No one is rocking abrupt decay really, and an equipped dork can smash for alot of damage. I wanted to try Rafiq as you know, and yeah I know he dies to red removal but if he sticks, they basically get smashed. I kinda like to split up bombs like Elspeth/sword of x and y and Rafiq. Also, I think Bant should have some higher curve threats for late game like Baneslayer Angel because you dont wanna be ripping ground pounding three drops when their is a ground swell, and you want some muscle with evasion. Bant is best designed with that idea in mind, so their is a constant increase in creature power. Thats why I suggested Restoration Angel, simply because she FLYS and the flash save a dude is relevant. You need to mix up the power level of creatures so the opponent will have a hard time dealing with threats. You cant always rely of Elspeth to resolve or stick t get dudes through.
Kyle........you're ridiculous lol. Trying to hijack the Bant Thread. Cut 1 Elspeth, add some Restoration Angels! I also think for what its worth, Sword of War Peace is pretty sweet in Modern because pro lightning bolt and path to exile is awesome. No one is rocking abrupt decay really, and an equipped dork can smash for alot of damage. I wanted to try Rafiq as you know, and yeah I know he dies to red removal but if he sticks, they basically get smashed. I kinda like to split up bombs like Elspeth/sword of x and y and Rafiq. Also, I think Bant should have some higher curve threats for late game like Baneslayer Angel because you dont wanna be ripping ground pounding three drops when their is a ground swell, and you want some muscle with evasion. Bant is best designed with that idea in mind, so their is a constant increase in creature power. Thats why I suggested Restoration Angel, simply because she FLYS and the flash save a dude is relevant. You need to mix up the power level of creatures so the opponent will have a hard time dealing with threats. You cant always rely of Elspeth to resolve or stick t get dudes through.
I really like the idea of a restoration angel or 2 in this deck...
Kyle........you're ridiculous lol. Trying to hijack the Bant Thread. Cut 1 Elspeth, add some Restoration Angels! I also think for what its worth, Sword of War Peace is pretty sweet in Modern because pro lightning bolt and path to exile is awesome. No one is rocking abrupt decay really, and an equipped dork can smash for alot of damage. I wanted to try Rafiq as you know, and yeah I know he dies to red removal but if he sticks, they basically get smashed. I kinda like to split up bombs like Elspeth/sword of x and y and Rafiq. Also, I think Bant should have some higher curve threats for late game like Baneslayer Angel because you dont wanna be ripping ground pounding three drops when their is a ground swell, and you want some muscle with evasion. Bant is best designed with that idea in mind, so their is a constant increase in creature power. Thats why I suggested Restoration Angel, simply because she FLYS and the flash save a dude is relevant. You need to mix up the power level of creatures so the opponent will have a hard time dealing with threats. You cant always rely of Elspeth to resolve or stick t get dudes through.
Lol, how did you know it was me?
Resto Angel is a good idea. A flashy 3/4 flyer that can save a dude from bad blockers or removal is good. I'm not certain what I would take out. Prolly 1 Elspeth and 2 Bant Charm for 2 Resto and one more Simic Charm. Maybe switch out Voice for another Pridemage and BoP.
I know you were talking about using Rafiq. I'm not crazy about him because for 4cc he dies to everything. However, what are your thoughts on Silverblade Paladin? He gives him self and another guy double strike for attacking with any number of creatures and blocking as well. And only 3cc.
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Silverblade is cool too, but he is in the same line as Rafiq, but a bit easier to cast and being a 3 drop. Intriguing. I know, they die to everything, but honestly at some point I dont care, because IF THEY DON"T kill Rafiq/SBPaladin they will probably lose from all the damage. But if your not using Rafiqs..........help a brother out Gotta use Restoration Angel. Flash and FLYING is amazing, plus save a dude.
Creature based pump is neat, but I think Bant's strength comes from landing hard to deal with threats, whether it's a hard to remove, or hard to block. Playing creatures that take a larger mana investment that don't fit that bill may slow you down. Thats why in terms of pump, many people favor Planeswalkers, swords, or auras over Rafiq or Silverblade
In terms of counters on this deck, what counter spells do you think work best, and how many counterspells do you run?
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I have done away with swords. They are just to clunky for me. Planeswalkers are more versatile imo. the Ajani and Finks synergy also makes it into my deck.
I am maindecking 5 pieces of countermagic. SB I have put 5 more pieces.
scavenging ooze is another top notch card. Just hates on so many decks. Random lifegain can also save you. Love, love, love this and will post my full list after some more playtesting. Glad cocktrice is back up as well.
I agree that township just doesn't fit. Not enough mana. Counters of choice are mana leakspell pierce and spell snare. mindbreak trap in the sideboard if ya need it for combo.
2 Breeding Pool
1 Celestial Colonnade
2 Forest
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Spells:
3 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
Swords:
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Creatures:
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Rhox War Monk
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Torpor Orb
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Negate
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Stony Silence
Giving Bant Blades a try. Normally play UWr Geist but this deck seemed like a lot more fun. Wondering if my card choices are ok, spell snare might be a little weak but I am doing well in testing. My game plan is pretty much try to turn 3 Geist or Smiter and eventually slap a sword on it.
Would love some advice on SB and Mana-base tuning. My creature splits may also not be optimal. War Monk is mostly in there due to lots of affinity and burn in my meta.
BRWMardu MidrangeBRW
GRA GR TronGRA
Standard Deck(s)
UW UW Heroic UW
BRWMardu AggroBRW
Legacy Deck
BRWMARDU DeathbladeBRW
I will have to look at my list when I get home, but I know I am always switching back and forth between a swords package (with a singleton Steelshaper's Gift) and an Aura package. I tend to prefer auras, namely Spirit Mantle, just because they're so much faster. I've also been hooked on charms, lately. Maybe they're a little cute, but I run a 3/3 split of Bant Charm and Simic Charm in my list with permission relegated to the sideboard. Charms just have incredible depth.
CG
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Temple Garden
2 Razorverge thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Seachrome Coast
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Spells:
3 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
Swords:
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Creatures:
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Rhox War Monk
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Torpor Orb
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Negate
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Stony Silence
I don't know how I feel about charms, I really like cards that can always 1 for 1 and sometimes the charms fall short in that respect. I don't really like bant charm because this deck really want to be tapping at least two lands a turn. This makes holding up more than 2 mana for responses pretty difficult. I tweaked the mana base a bit. Traded away man lands for better turn 1 consistency. CIPT lands are really horrible in this deck. Cut a scooze for another Elspeth because she wins more games than any other card in the deck (except maybe Geist of course). Also added Mirran Crusaders in the SB for the GB rock matchups. In those matchups he is basically True-Name nemesis on steroids with pro "their entire deck". An Elspeth +3 turns him into a flying 10/10. Scary stuff.
Edit:
I prefer swords honestly because they let you attack with one dude and then re-equip to block on another. It can save you a lot of games. Swords and aura's both get blown out by the same maindeck cards (abrubt decay, quasali)and a swords being destroyed can be a bigger problem than an aura, but swords have the advantage of not be able to go to a Spellskite which is HUGE in this meta. If it were not for spellskite I would consider aura's but in this meta I think the swords are just much better. They also generate CA and can turn the dorks into threats late game, which are two major problems this deck has.
Nice deck, what do you side out for the 4 affinity cards you have? i assume?
-2 savaging ooze
-1 sword of feast and famine (fire and ice protects against galvanic blast)
-1 x?
Also, your thought on a Brimaz or 2 in Smiter's spot? I really like your build
2 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Temple Garden
2 Razorverge thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Spells:
3 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
Swords:
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
Creatures:
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Torpor Orb
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Negate
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Stony Silence
After 2 consecutive 8-0 finishes followed by a 4-0 this deck has earned me 2 1/2 boxes of RTR, which I am very happy about.
The deck has a fantastic, almost guaranteed, UWR control match-up. Between Geist and most of our creatures being out of bolt range, we can quickly clock them out before they can stabilize. Even if they tap out to wrath we can respond with more threats or by slamming Elspeth, which usually can just win on her own. The deck also has very even match-ups against most of the modern field, I really don't understand why this deck does not see more play. In testing it seems fantastic.
Did a lot of math to streamline the mana base. Added Knight of the Reliquary over Rhox War Monk. Knight is a bigger threat that is worse against aggro but is much better in almost every other match-up. Knight also allows us to tutor Ghost quarter and Gavony at instant speed which can give us game against tron and other zoo decks. Cut Fire and Ice from the main deck for War and Peace. I wanted another way to gain life main deck now that Rhox was gone, the protection colors are also much more relevant. Having protection from green, black, white, and red protects us from just about everything except main deck threads of disloyalty.
I really think that this deck is incredibly strong. I have played and own almost every deck in Modern and every week I sleeve this up and play it. It is also hilariously fun to play.
Thinking about splashing red for bolt (yikes 4 color seems rough though), or moving some things around to make room for Tarmogoyf. I don't love goyf in a deck with no sorceries, but we can hope our opponents play them.
@BaskingMongrel
For affinity I board out Feast and Famine, Elspeth, and 2 mana leak. Elspeth is too slow, Snare is just better than leak and for the most part I can ignore Etched Champion, and Feast and Famine really does nothing for us in this match-up. Affinity was a much better match=up when I had Rhox and has gotten a bit harder now that I have Knight instead. Save Path for fliers, you beat them on the ground all day long. Even a pumped up Ravager is usually smaller than your Knight. Also you can tutor a GQ in response to an equip to kill a man land. I really do not worry about Galvanic Blast since most affinity lists are running Thought-cast instead. Also never board out ooze, every point of life you can gain against affinity matters.
Brimaz is a good card, but is worse than our other three drops by a large margin. He is smaller than Knight, worse than Smiter against Jund and UWR, and comes no where close to the power level of Geist. He is also a Legend so you can't play multiples of him. I even think Rhox War Monk is better due to the life gain and we don't even have room for him. He has a good interaction with swords, and is good against Zoo but I don't think that is enough to give him an inclusion. If you have your heart set on him though I would cut 1 Knight and 1 Geist.
With the more aggro build that is. It really is a fine line, but optimally building it for aggro or control and not half and half imo
Don't play them in a split. If your meta is mostly aggro and burn then play Rhox. If your meta is filled with midrange, control and combo play Knight. Knight lets you turn your mana base into a toolbox. He is also simply a huge beater that provides a faster clock than Rhox. Rhox is just a way to stall out aggro and burn. Combo ignores him, Midrange can outclass him, and Control removes him much easier than Knight via path or double bolt.
Strong points. I didn't mean to imply cutting blue alltogether, I just meant for example in your list (which I like a lot)
Simpy making these changes:
-3 Mana Leak
-3 Spell Snare
+2 Bant Charm
+2 Simic Charm
+2 Psionic Blast
At first I was extremely hesitant of Spell Snare, but looking at decklists of popular decks it has more targets that I initially thought.
Thoughts on my changes?
Also, could you do a SB guide for your list? Most seems straight forward but what you side Out is what is most important, obviously.
Also, 4 Smiters seems like too much. A brimaz or 2 in his spot would be so nice. Or Rhox.
Thanks for your discussion and contributions.
Bant Charm is a great card and is interchangeable with Mana Leak. It hurts your early game but makes your late game a bit better. You can't beat Scapeshift game one now though.
Simic Charm is a "cute" card. It is really bad most of the time. Sure it will save you in some situations where Mana Leak would do nothing, but most of the time I would rather just have a counter spell. If your meta has no combo decks and a lot of control decks I could see Simic Charm being "ok".
Psionic Blast is only good because it is so bad. No one thinks you will have it (or even knows that it exists) so they will not play around it, giving you surprise wins and blowouts. 3 mana is a lot for a 4 damage effect, let alone one that hurts you, and I would rather play any of the other cards listed. If you want burn, splash two stomping grounds and play Bolt.
Spell Snare is a meta card, In my meta I need it for Cranial Plating, Goryo's Vengeance, Tarmogoyf, Bob, and it also lets me play Geist through counter magic against UWR. Snare is amazing in Modern and is rarely dead, almost every deck has something you can counter with it. It also gives you game against boggles by countering Daybreak Coronet. Boggles is pretty miserable if they get life gain going and we need counters main deck to beat them.
Smiter is the best card in this deck, period. If I could play 10 I would. My meta is full of Jund and discard so he really is a work horse. You can cut two for other three drops but I would advise against it.
My SB changes weekly depending on what decks I see or think will be at a tournament. Play what beats your meta. If everyone at your LGS plays affinity play a sideboard of 15 artifact hate cards. My LGS has two mill players who come once in a while. When I see them I cut a Mirran Crusader for an Emrakul. Sideboarding is all about meta gaming and I really cant make a guide for it. The general principle is to take out cards that are bad and put in cards that are good. If you tell me what your meta is like I can construct a sideboard for you and tell you how to use it.
In General here are some tips:
Always have two swords in the deck, pick the colors/effects that are the most relevant.
Against aggro: Cut Mana Leak and bring in more creatures as blockers.
Against control: Cut birds and board in more counters and Thrun. If they play Clique and 4x Snapcaster, you can cut Qasali for Torpor Orb.
Against combo: There are so many combos in modern. Different cards are relevant against each. In combo matchups you want to cut the support creatures that do nothing and Elspeth for relevant hate cards.
Against midrange: I usually cut support creatures and bring in more swords and Thrun. My meta has a lot of Jund so I also bring in Crusader in those match ups.
always have 2 swords in deck? even affinity, storm?
against midrange bring in more swords? ever more than 2?
even thrun when they cant counter? just for his regenerate?
Long time follower of this thread, first time poster. I've been playing Bant ever since it was a thing in Alara Standard. It's probably my favorite deck to play. I've played all different versions over the years, but this is my most recent list.
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Voice of Resurgence
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Rhox War Monk
4 Path to Exile
4 Mana Leak
2 Simic Charm
2 Bant Charm
2x Breeding Pool
2x Celestial Colonnade
1x Forest
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Negate
2x Pithing Needle
2x Rest in Peace
2x Spellskite
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Torpor Orb
A lot of the staples in Bant are staples for a reason; they do work and get paid. Geist can turn games around on his own with the help of Elspeth and exalted triggers. Smiter has proven great vs aggro, midrange, and control. Rhox War Monk is one of my favorite choices (mostly because he is a rhino monk) but he's nothing to sneeze at. 3/4 life link has saved my butt vs burn, Merfolk, Aura Boggle, and a host of other midrange and aggro decks. I don't have swords, but Elspeth has been working out. Don't really mind seeing multiple, just means I can be riskier with them.
Originally, I ran Deathrite Shaman but after banning, I had to run BoP. Losing some punch, I looked to Voice and Simic Charm to fill the void. Voice seems good, but I'm not certain if I want more or less or something else instead. I'm almost always happy to see Simic Charm. Bounce and Hexproof are nice, but the surprise +3/+3 has turned games around. Great with Geist, either pump him to kill blockers, or pump the angel to finish them off. Not married to Bant Charm, but it is versatile, and I like to be able to handle a variety of decks. Countering an early ritual in Storm, or knocking out a Cryptic Command or Sphinx's Revelation can make or break games.
SB I'm always tweaking, but these are in general the cards I run in it. Affinity is a tough match up, so I may need a third Creeping Corrosion.
Always open to new ideas. Gotta evolve to stay relevant.
—Tahngarth of the Weatherlight
I really like the idea of a restoration angel or 2 in this deck...
who is kyle?
Lol, how did you know it was me?
Resto Angel is a good idea. A flashy 3/4 flyer that can save a dude from bad blockers or removal is good. I'm not certain what I would take out. Prolly 1 Elspeth and 2 Bant Charm for 2 Resto and one more Simic Charm. Maybe switch out Voice for another Pridemage and BoP.
I know you were talking about using Rafiq. I'm not crazy about him because for 4cc he dies to everything. However, what are your thoughts on Silverblade Paladin? He gives him self and another guy double strike for attacking with any number of creatures and blocking as well. And only 3cc.
—Tahngarth of the Weatherlight
In terms of counters on this deck, what counter spells do you think work best, and how many counterspells do you run?
—Tahngarth of the Weatherlight