Yeah, DnT is like a less red-headed cousin, Denial works
@ Homeland Zecurity
Nice list, I would advocate against the Ajani, if you want a singleton Elspeth is better (and soooo worth the $) but in general, PW'ers don't work so well with Thalia, and it comes down to preference and also the amount of combo in your meta. I personally like my PW'ers more than my Thalia's, so I run them instead, this is also because I enjoy more one sided hate effects like Blood Moon, as I hate having my own card get in the way.
. I suppose you try and start off aggressively and slowly want to control the opponents board more and more... Seems like the way to go
That is indeed the way to go If I can't kill my opponent fast enough with landfall triggers (T4, maybe T5 would be the line here) I'll then move to a more controlling strategy to win with my PW'ers and removal. (Moon will come down T4 at the lastest regardless)
I think this is a decent way to start off. If I encounter problems with this mainboard I'll switch things up. If Thalia is becoming a burden in my games I'll do the following:
-4 Thalia
+2 Elspeth
+2 Mogg War Marshal (He's 3 power for two spread over, which forces your opponent to deal with more threats.
Don't run Mogg, he's not that good. The rest of the list looks pretty solid.
I'd do:
-1 Thalia
-2 Forked Bolt
+2 Elspeth
+1 Figure of Destiny
Also, The Boros list that is showing up most often in dailies is running a singleton Spikeshot Elder, thoughts?
I agree with Graycross, except on the planeswalkers. A single Elspeth or Ajani v is fine, but more than one starts to get awkward with Thalia and blood moon and 22 lands. Double white is tough under a moon.
I'd also still push for blood over magus Hirea. Unless you don't care about Jund and Tron, you're way better off with the enchantment.
Spikeshot is interesting. He's a great lategame safeguard against flooding, and works well as Lavamancer 5. Being able to fetch him with ranger is great, , but I'm not sure I'd want him maindeck. Too slow when you draw him early, but I could see siding him in in matches where you want to be the control deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Ah, sorry, didn't check the land count there. I'm generally fine with 23 land for my 3 PW'ers even running 3 MD Moons.
PW'ers and Thalia is a thing you get used to playing with, and making the decision of which comes down first can be hard, but once you get used to making a choice based on the matchup it gets much easier.
Yea, I mean Elspeth is really good. And ajani adds reach and control. I know it's worth the sacrifices, but for me I'm good with just rangers as the 4 drop for now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Don't run Mogg, he's not that good. The rest of the list looks pretty solid.
I'd do:
-1 Thalia
-2 Forked Bolt
+2 Elspeth
+1 Figure of Destiny
Also, The Boros list that is showing up most often in dailies is running a singleton Spikeshot Elder, thoughts?
I happen to play against that deck a few days ago in a daily event with my Esper Death and taxes, he went on to a 4-0 I did a 3-1. I was really surprised at how the deck function. His Grim lavamancers were crucial along with a fetch spikeshot, late game they just took over. The other game I just go the Lynx beat down upon me.
I watched his other matches and he beat storm twice albeit he was pretty lucky, usually when I get past in flames I lose, he didn't. I think his last win was to a pod deck which I think is not a good MU, buit still got it.
I actually think Pod is either 50/50 for us, or favored, depending on what SB options you use. Blood Moon slows them down, as well as our plethora of removal, and we can often just run them over game 1 with an aggressive draw. 3x Stony Silence (and any Pithing Needles you might have) shut down their engine, and then they become a worse Midrange deck than us.
Storm is the reason we run Thalia. I almost want the 4th in the board, but Kor Firewalker is another decent option, especially now that Empty the Warrens is seeing less play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I think Ash Zealot is pretty good against Storm, but it's not GG by any stretch. They can play around it easier than they can Thalia. Zealot only shuts down Past in Flames, which they don't necessarily need to win, whereas Thalia completely slows down any cantrips or rituals they want to play. Neither card guarantees you the win, but I'd rather have Thalia personally. Ash Zealot is certainly still very good in similar situations.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Posting this mostly for my own reference, but also so everyone can see. It's the list I'm basing mine off of, and it's popped up just a few times recently on MODO:
Well unfortunately I am not being able to make any comment on this thread as I have no information on it. I would go through deeply and then I would be able to share my experiences. If anyone could post it in simple words I would be grateful.
New list, haven't done one for this deck in a while. I've a PTQ in January so I'm going through possible decks to go under the radar, this is one of them. (so far in the works!)
I've no idea what to expect of the paper meta in the UK, so I'm trying to gear the 75 to be ready for anything.
MD Sudden Shock is an excellent way to be ready for anything But I've a few suggestions.
Use Rule of Law over Ethersworn in the SB, it's much harder for storm to deal with, as many Storm decks I've seen are running SB Bolts anyways.
I'd drop the Rangers for Blood Moon, they're both good lategame plans, but Blood Moon lets you actually shift gears rather than trying again with your small creatures. Maybe do a 2/1 split.
@ Sebastianz Most of the thread in short form is in the primer, I need to update it again, but it's mostly all there.
New list, haven't done one for this deck in a while. I've a PTQ in January so I'm going through possible decks to go under the radar, this is one of them. (so far in the works!)
I've no idea what to expect of the paper meta in the UK, so I'm trying to gear the 75 to be ready for anything.
I found slayer stronghold to be good, esp with mirran crusader. Wondering if you could use more of both. Uk meta is very random, with lots of supposedly unplayed decks, esp outside of the big cities. I would suggest a shatterstorm as affinity is popular everywhere as its cheap and pacy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I've been playing boros landfall again. It's really good right now ~ jund is a bye and you're fast enough to combo off against the different combo decks game 1 if you need to.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I write for Channel Fireball now! Read my CFB articles here. Read my Dies to Removal articles here. Read the definitive Red Deck Wins Primer here.
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
I've been playing boros landfall again. It's really good right now ~ jund is a bye and you're fast enough to combo off against the different combo decks game 1 if you need to.
Indeed Boros is in a good place I'm not sure I'd say Jund is a bye but it certainly isn't too difficult, and I've had many games where I've killed them on T3-4 going Lynx-Geopede-Paladin with some Flagstones+GQ action
As far as Rule of Law goes, I was using it for the longest time, but I kept finding it to slow if your on the draw and even worse if you have a turn two Thalia. While it's still good, I think turn two Thalia into turn three Canonist or visa versa is just as strong to lock Storm out.
As for Ranger, I like him with Figures late game since I'm running 24 lands (Considering adding a single Goblin Bushwhacker, since I used one in older lists).
I'm still thinking about Blood Moon but casting Mirran Crusader becomes a bit of a hassle, but they are both exceptional cards vs Jund so its possible to end up including both.
Fair enough, I don't run Thalia as often anymore so I was sorta basing it off my experience, but you make a very good point there.
Fetching up your lategame plan is fine, I'd actually say for a singleton Spikeshot Elder rather than a Bushwhacker, I've tested it a little since seeing the dailies list running it and it's a great mana sink and closes out games really well. (and with so many cards vying for the graveyard, he is more effective as a fetch target than Lavamancer I find)
I intend on seeing how the IQ goes, and once that's over I'll probably grind out the deck for a while to tune it for January when Modern Tournaments start at my LGS.
Albeit not having tested Spikeshot Elder, wouldn't you think he often does so little damage for his abillity's cost? The deck is not in a place where it could pump it's power and make them suffer harder. With that said I think I would prefer a burn spell over him.
Please do convince me though, since it's highly likely that I am missing some point here
He's used as a one of target to fetch with Ranger of Eos, the reason for this is that once you hit T6 he becomes a non-resource reliant Grim Lavamancer. Which is good once graveyards are used up by Deathrite Shamans and opposing Lavamancers.
It's true that Spikeshot would be better with something like Adventure Gear in the deck, but even with both being playsets, you wouldn't get the combo reliably enough to really matter. Just having a singleton to fetch with Ranger is still very valuable late game, as it's relevant against quite a few Tier 1 decks. Infect, Lingering Souls, Pod, Affinity, and Jund are all pretty soft to repeatable damage, and when you have 6 mana in play, 2 activations a turn is enough value.
That said, I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what to pull for the Elder. Probably the 4th Figure.
Has anyone else been tempted to run 2-3 Searing Blaze in the main? It's old hat, but I think with almost every deck running creatures now, it's worth bringing back to the limelight discussion. Only problem is it interferes with Thalia a bit, and pushes me away from Blood Moon and more towards all out Landfall Aggro, which isn't exactly where I want to be.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I've run Searing Blaze in past renditions and you are perfectly correct that it is better in more Aggro versions of the deck. However, I'd be tempted to test it maybe as a 1-2 of in place of some Bolts/PTE's (PTE's in Moon builds)
I as well have considered running Searing Blaze. I feel that it's really strong to help push damage early by clearing blocker, but still doing player damage. I personally hate using bolts as removal and then later wishing i had it to throw to their face.
With the addition of Searing Blaze I do feel that Thalia will have to move to the sideboard. At that point should would be more self-destructive than beneficial.
I'll be testing these thoughts this weekend at my local shop and let you guys know what happened.
Would you not prefer to run Shattering Spree over Shatterstorm? You often only need to take out two or three artifacts to gain control, besides it is another card for which you need 4 mana.
I have a slight pref for sstorm, but both are equally valid. I dislike smithereens type cards where I get a random aggro bonus- v affinity almost all boros lists are control on the draw. I am happy to spree if i get enough red to sometimes hit 3 every now and then. As far as budget lists go then 35 to 50 cent sstorm is not too shabby.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
It's going to matter I personally prefer Stony Silence as my affinity hate, as the only thing that really concerns me most games is Cranial. I think 23 Land is usually fine, because honestly you don't want to be drawing land that much, it's just a nice thing in Boros that land isn't always a bad topdeck. It shouldn't change your deckbuilding, 23 is fine for your curve.
On the number of lands, I personally feel 22-23 is ideal for most Boros lists. If you are trying to run a full set of Rangers, it gets a little tough, but the rest of the deck is basically 1 and 2 drops. Most times, I'd rather get stuck on lands a bit than flood out. We do have plenty of mana sinks though, and the Blood Moon builds want to cast Moon on turn 3 as often as possible. I'm pretty happy with 23 lands right now, and I run 3 Rangers.
I also squeezed in a Spikeshot Elder, and a single Magus of the Moon as the third Blood Moon effect maindeck. I cut Geopedes, as I feel they just don't do enough, and I'd often be casting them turn 3 anyway. Blade Splicer is a more consistent creature, and I'm working on trying to fit in the second right now. Testing to ensue...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
@ Homeland Zecurity
Nice list, I would advocate against the Ajani, if you want a singleton Elspeth is better (and soooo worth the $) but in general, PW'ers don't work so well with Thalia, and it comes down to preference and also the amount of combo in your meta. I personally like my PW'ers more than my Thalia's, so I run them instead, this is also because I enjoy more one sided hate effects like Blood Moon, as I hate having my own card get in the way.
I'll hopefully put a rambling up about it soon.
That is indeed the way to go If I can't kill my opponent fast enough with landfall triggers (T4, maybe T5 would be the line here) I'll then move to a more controlling strategy to win with my PW'ers and removal. (Moon will come down T4 at the lastest regardless)
Don't run Mogg, he's not that good. The rest of the list looks pretty solid.
I'd do:
-1 Thalia
-2 Forked Bolt
+2 Elspeth
+1 Figure of Destiny
Also, The Boros list that is showing up most often in dailies is running a singleton Spikeshot Elder, thoughts?
I'd also still push for blood over magus Hirea. Unless you don't care about Jund and Tron, you're way better off with the enchantment.
Spikeshot is interesting. He's a great lategame safeguard against flooding, and works well as Lavamancer 5. Being able to fetch him with ranger is great, , but I'm not sure I'd want him maindeck. Too slow when you draw him early, but I could see siding him in in matches where you want to be the control deck.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
PW'ers and Thalia is a thing you get used to playing with, and making the decision of which comes down first can be hard, but once you get used to making a choice based on the matchup it gets much easier.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I happen to play against that deck a few days ago in a daily event with my Esper Death and taxes, he went on to a 4-0 I did a 3-1. I was really surprised at how the deck function. His Grim lavamancers were crucial along with a fetch spikeshot, late game they just took over. The other game I just go the Lynx beat down upon me.
I watched his other matches and he beat storm twice albeit he was pretty lucky, usually when I get past in flames I lose, he didn't. I think his last win was to a pod deck which I think is not a good MU, buit still got it.
Storm is the reason we run Thalia. I almost want the 4th in the board, but Kor Firewalker is another decent option, especially now that Empty the Warrens is seeing less play.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Modern Daily #4669780 on 12/01/2012Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Marsh Flats
5 Mountain
4 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
24 lands
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Plated Geopede
4 Ranger of Eos
1 Spikeshot Elder
4 Steppe Lynx
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
22 creatures
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
14 other spells
1 Blood Moon
2 Dead/Gone
2 Nevermore
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
2 Torpor Orb
2 Volcanic Fallout
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
MD Sudden Shock is an excellent way to be ready for anything But I've a few suggestions.
Use Rule of Law over Ethersworn in the SB, it's much harder for storm to deal with, as many Storm decks I've seen are running SB Bolts anyways.
I'd drop the Rangers for Blood Moon, they're both good lategame plans, but Blood Moon lets you actually shift gears rather than trying again with your small creatures. Maybe do a 2/1 split.
@ Sebastianz Most of the thread in short form is in the primer, I need to update it again, but it's mostly all there.
I found slayer stronghold to be good, esp with mirran crusader. Wondering if you could use more of both. Uk meta is very random, with lots of supposedly unplayed decks, esp outside of the big cities. I would suggest a shatterstorm as affinity is popular everywhere as its cheap and pacy.
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
Indeed Boros is in a good place I'm not sure I'd say Jund is a bye but it certainly isn't too difficult, and I've had many games where I've killed them on T3-4 going Lynx-Geopede-Paladin with some Flagstones+GQ action
Fair enough, I don't run Thalia as often anymore so I was sorta basing it off my experience, but you make a very good point there.
Fetching up your lategame plan is fine, I'd actually say for a singleton Spikeshot Elder rather than a Bushwhacker, I've tested it a little since seeing the dailies list running it and it's a great mana sink and closes out games really well. (and with so many cards vying for the graveyard, he is more effective as a fetch target than Lavamancer I find)
I intend on seeing how the IQ goes, and once that's over I'll probably grind out the deck for a while to tune it for January when Modern Tournaments start at my LGS.
Cheers
He's used as a one of target to fetch with Ranger of Eos, the reason for this is that once you hit T6 he becomes a non-resource reliant Grim Lavamancer. Which is good once graveyards are used up by Deathrite Shamans and opposing Lavamancers.
That said, I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what to pull for the Elder. Probably the 4th Figure.
Has anyone else been tempted to run 2-3 Searing Blaze in the main? It's old hat, but I think with almost every deck running creatures now, it's worth bringing back to the limelight discussion. Only problem is it interferes with Thalia a bit, and pushes me away from Blood Moon and more towards all out Landfall Aggro, which isn't exactly where I want to be.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
With the addition of Searing Blaze I do feel that Thalia will have to move to the sideboard. At that point should would be more self-destructive than beneficial.
I'll be testing these thoughts this weekend at my local shop and let you guys know what happened.
I'm also interested in your thoughts on Goblin Assault + Glory of Warfare?
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
I have a slight pref for sstorm, but both are equally valid. I dislike smithereens type cards where I get a random aggro bonus- v affinity almost all boros lists are control on the draw. I am happy to spree if i get enough red to sometimes hit 3 every now and then. As far as budget lists go then 35 to 50 cent sstorm is not too shabby.
I also squeezed in a Spikeshot Elder, and a single Magus of the Moon as the third Blood Moon effect maindeck. I cut Geopedes, as I feel they just don't do enough, and I'd often be casting them turn 3 anyway. Blade Splicer is a more consistent creature, and I'm working on trying to fit in the second right now. Testing to ensue...
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB