What are you bringing in extractions for? (Edit - Found your post above about Combo)
I'm guessing that works for Storm but it seems like it won't help you against Kikipod or Twin. Thing is I think this deck is doing well on MTGO because there aren't many of those decks around.
I'm actually thinking about running this a time or two since i have 90% of the cards.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
What are you bringing in extractions for? (Edit - Found your post above about Combo)
I'm guessing that works for Storm but it seems like it won't help you against Kikipod or Twin. Thing is I think this deck is doing well on MTGO because there aren't many of those decks around.
I'm actually thinking about running this a time or two since i have 90% of the cards.
Well the Surgical Extractions work alot better against twin and pod with the thoughtseizes. Obviously doesnt outright own them but it seems to be working alright. Affinity is the ass matchup, but the SB options for it in black arent great.
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"What's a dead man but a live man without any life?" --- Tom Servo
No, your anime sig is NOT cool.
Currently Playing:
Modern - R/G Tron
Standard - RDW
Well the Surgical Extractions work alot better against twin and pod with the thoughtseizes. Obviously doesnt outright own them but it seems to be working alright. Affinity is the ass matchup, but the SB options for it in black arent great.
I went ahead and traded some stuff in MODO and built your version with thoughtseizes and extractions just to try it out. I haven't had the chance to really test it extensively but I like your version a lot more.
I agree with affinity being such a hard match up. I remember playing against a budget version and I don't think that made it any easier. To me it seems like against affinity, discard just isn't that strong of a disruption to slow them down. Im not sure infest is fast enough because of cards like Steel Overseer and Master of Etherium. By the time I have mana for a sweeper, steel overseer would have pumped them all out of range.
I dunno, I haven't played much affinity but that seems to be the case for me. I'm considering bringing in Mutilate.
I went ahead and traded some stuff in MODO and built your version with thoughtseizes and extractions just to try it out. I haven't had the chance to really test it extensively but I like your version a lot more.
I agree with affinity being such a hard match up. I remember playing against a budget version and I don't think that made it any easier. To me it seems like against affinity, discard just isn't that strong of a disruption to slow them down. Im not sure infest is fast enough because of cards like Steel Overseer and Master of Etherium. By the time I have mana for a sweeper, steel overseer would have pumped them all out of range.
I dunno, I haven't played much affinity but that seems to be the case for me. I'm considering bringing in Mutilate.
The thing with affinity is that you have so many things to side out - discards, go for the throat - and so little to add. _XuXa_ is now using Ratchet Bomb in sb instead of infest, dunno if it is better.
I was considering a budget version of this list, using the same changes to the basic as Stnkfist but running Duress instead of Thoughseize.
For a budget version, has anyone consider running Despise either mainboard or sideboard to grab things like Primeval Titan and other fatties that Duress and Inquisition of Kozilek can't touch.
I really dont like despise. In that ravens crime spot i think the order is thoughtseize > raven's crime > duress > blackmail > despise. Theres probably something in between im missing, but if your paying 2 mana, you had better be getting 2 discards imo.
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"What's a dead man but a live man without any life?" --- Tom Servo
No, your anime sig is NOT cool.
Currently Playing:
Modern - R/G Tron
Standard - RDW
Has anyone played 1-2 Phyrexian Arena in this? Since Confidant can't attack for relevant damage in this deck, it seems like it could potentially be quite good. Control can be a difficult match, and Arena seems like it could go a long way towards improving it.
Also, Isochron Scepter has been great in this deck. It crushes the mirror and can shut some decks out of the game until they find an answer for it (assuming they have one). Sometimes you can just imprint removal, which other times you can imprint a Funeral Charm and just keep forcing them to discard in their draw step.
I think this deck needs to run 3-4 Geth's Verdicts for Geist of Saint Traft and (more importantly) the GW Aura deck.
Also, what do people think of Damnations/Barter in Blood in the side for Affinity? I think Tendrils might be something to look into as well, though I think it may be a bit too slow.
Why run Geth's Verdict when you have Go for the Throat? Its easier to cast and achieves the same objective? The minimal life loss doesnt really affect your opponents when you are hitting with infect either.
I have been thinking of including Damnations as well - probably as a 2 of in SB replacing 2 Infest. A better sweeper for 1 more mana.
Barter in Blood doesnt seem good when we are only running 8 creatures MB - you will end up sacrificing your beater/s and they only loose a maximum of 2 dudes. I would rather run Damnation instead at the same cost.
Because Go for the Throat doesn't hit hexproof guys, which is extremely relevant in the GW Aura matchup and incidentally relevant against GoST. Without any way to remove a Slippery Bogle or the Elf, this deck cannot beat it. Additionally, it's not an either/or situation, since you can run Go for the Throat for situations where that is relevant and Verdict for situations where that is better. Very often Verdict and Go for the Throat will be doing the same thing anyway, and you gain a huge advantage from having access to a sacrifice effect in certain matchups.
Barter in Blood is probably worse than Damnation. I just mention it because if Damnation is only going to be hitting 2 creatures on average, Barter becomes better because its a sacrifice effect (same advantage as above). As far as sacrificing our own creatures to it, this is solved by just holding creatures until after you cast it.
While Geth's Verdict costs only BB, When I played the deck in Standard (which had access to verdict) I preferred Tribute to Hunger because of the lifegain which usually was very relevant at the time. Since the prime target for a verdict effect is Geist of Saint-Traft, a 3 CMC spell, both would be effective in hitting GoST on curve while Tribute would be a much better topdeck against goyfs and other fattys later in the game.
Has anyone played 1-2 Phyrexian Arena in this? Since Confidant can't attack for relevant damage in this deck, it seems like it could potentially be quite good. Control can be a difficult match, and Arena seems like it could go a long way towards improving it.
Also, Isochron Scepter has been great in this deck. It crushes the mirror and can shut some decks out of the game until they find an answer for it (assuming they have one). Sometimes you can just imprint removal, which other times you can imprint a Funeral Charm and just keep forcing them to discard in their draw step.
I think this deck needs to run 3-4 Geth's Verdicts for Geist of Saint Traft and (more importantly) the GW Aura deck.
Also, what do people think of Damnations/Barter in Blood in the side for Affinity? I think Tendrils might be something to look into as well, though I think it may be a bit too slow.
Ugh, I was the giganoob you played on the Friday night DE. So embarrassing.
Anyway, totally agree that scepter is great. Getting a funeral charm or removal imprinted is pretty much an uphill battle from there for fair decks. While I agree with another poster that Tribute to Hunger's life gain is sweet, you can imprint Geth's Verdict so it's much better.
I haven't played the aura/blouses match up but is Mutilate better because it can potentially get around totem armor? Or do creatures get too big for it to work?
Also, I was wondering how many scepters you run. 4? I was thinking of 3 would be a good number.
I have looked at the daily recent daily events and I saw a list running night's whispers instead of sign in blood and one running 4x shadow of doubt in main deck. Dunno if those guys took the idea from this discussion, but it reinforce the value of this kind of brainstorm
About the lists: I really think that Shadow of Doubt is a cool card that never have been in the highlights, but it is pretty bad in main deck. It turns tough match in even tougher, like affinity. I think it should be in SB, if we have a meta filled with pods, scapshifts, and eggs(it dodges leyline and is better than many cards, so... haha)
Also saw lists with veredict, test it and approved it. Don't know the optimal split for desfigurate/doom blade/go for the throat/victim of night/geth's veredict. I liked 3 desfigurate, 1 blade, 1 Go for the throat, 2 veredict, 0 victim. Or maybe -1 desf, +1 Go for the throat.
Didn't tested ratchet bomb instead of infest, but it seems better, as well as night's wish is better than sign in blood.
I saw no list that run scepter, though =x. How is it? My fear is that it is too situational, you need two cards in hand, sometimes you don't want to print what you have(for instance, print a raven's crime in the 2nd turn is kind of lame against many decks), sometimes you take a 2 vs 1 trade(abrupt decay in g1, many decks side ancient grudge or other hate in g2 to take care of nexus and pike...).
I can't get TS or IOK in real life at the moment so I'm running a more budget version of the deck and testing it on cocka but it seems to work ok for now:
reaper vs vatmother: the original list runs 4 vatmother, i've cutted them to 2 and replaced with the reaper cause if it gets chumpblocked we can still get 1 poison on the opponent instead on us in upkeep. 2/5 vs 4/5 with the related abilities it's not a big loss and the creature we want to connect it's the crusader!
liliana of the dark realms: i'm not sold on her yet but when she hits the ground it's a next turn reaper/crusader swing for 5(usually) or more...depending on swamps in play on our side.
phyrexian arena is a good choice and i'm fine with it.
As you can see i'm having sideboard problems, surgical+progenitus> combo and grave hate...but then? what can i add?
4 Disfigure
1 Doom Blade
4 Funeral Charm
1 Go for the Throat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Raven's Crime
2 Runechanter's Pike
4 Wrench Mind
28 other spells
It looks pretty insane. However I just don't have the money to add green. For my mono black list I'm thinking about adding 2 liliana of the veil and 2 Isochron Scepter.
4 Disfigure
1 Doom Blade
4 Funeral Charm
1 Go for the Throat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Raven's Crime
2 Runechanter's Pike
4 Wrench Mind
28 other spells
It looks pretty insane. However I just don't have the money to add green. For my mono black list I'm thinking about adding 2 liliana of the veil and 2 Isochron Scepter.
I liked the Dark confident and the lilianas, but I am still wondering about the shoal in SB. Have you tested them? What you think about it?
The list looks good, but if one has such money(lily, dark confidents, dual, fetch), why don't replace crusader with goyf? it just seems better.I don't know if it is worth adding G to "only" get half of death rite shaman and nature's claim in SB.
I haven't tested the shoals in the SB but honestly I don't like them at all. Then the lilianas and the confidant seem to fit pretty good, maybe he didn't add the goyfs as they're 90 tix each one? Don't know, just wondering if that was the reason.
I will definitely continue playing the mono B version as I said I cannot afford splashing green. Probably what I'm going to do next is to cut 2 of the 3 go for the throat and add geth's verdict instead. Also cut 2 raven's crime for isochron scepter (I really want to test them) and I still need to see how to include the lilianas. I will also get rid of at least 2 of the hideway lands.
Until the Spotlight card comes out, are there thoughts on how to beat GW Bogles when they have Leyline of Sanctity out? I can't figure out what I would do in that position because they outrace us.
Until the Spotlight card comes out, are there thoughts on how to beat GW Bogles when they have Leyline of Sanctity out? I can't figure out what I would do in that position because they outrace us.
You absolutely need global edicts in that case. There isn't a whole lot though in Modern. If that leyline isn't up you can often just edict their stuff or discard their busted enchantments. But beyond that, fast Infests might help (If you're on the play you Infest as soon as they start resolving dudes). As for viable edict possibilities? Barter in Blood, Fleshbag Marauder, and Smallpox. That's about it, and barter's a stretch but will do enough. I honestly think a minor green splash wouldn't hurt this list if it gives you access to relevant hate against this kind of matchup. Golgari Charm's pretty good sideboard tech.
I've been thinking about a blue splash for SCM and some countermagic. I feel like that gives even stronger reach late game- snapping back wrench mind and such is brutal, not to mention we have a way to interact with their top decks
This deck could almost play like tempo at that point- run out an efficient infect beasty and back it up with hand disruption, removal, and countermagic.
Ratchet Bomb is a cool sb option against Auras.dec , even though it takes 1 turn to become on line. Exchanging some GftT for Geth's veredict also works pretty well.
I've been thinking about building this deck, and will probably be getting all the cards and testing it on MODO tomorrow.
I've been thinking about messing around with the removal a little bit, and putting in 4x Virulent Swipe, since it can either be removal with the first strike on Phyrexian Crusader or can just make Phyrexian Crusader an even quicker clock. These changes obviously are made to just make it more of an Infect Combo deck like the current tier1 BUG Infect Combo deck.
Thoughts?
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Stock list with the following changes.
-4 raven's crime
-1 doom blade
-1 disfigure
-4 vampire nighthawk
+4 thoughtseize
+2 dismember
+4 surgical extraction.
No, your anime sig is NOT cool.
Currently Playing:
Modern - R/G Tron
Standard - RDW
I'm guessing that works for Storm but it seems like it won't help you against Kikipod or Twin. Thing is I think this deck is doing well on MTGO because there aren't many of those decks around.
I'm actually thinking about running this a time or two since i have 90% of the cards.
Well the Surgical Extractions work alot better against twin and pod with the thoughtseizes. Obviously doesnt outright own them but it seems to be working alright. Affinity is the ass matchup, but the SB options for it in black arent great.
No, your anime sig is NOT cool.
Currently Playing:
Modern - R/G Tron
Standard - RDW
I went ahead and traded some stuff in MODO and built your version with thoughtseizes and extractions just to try it out. I haven't had the chance to really test it extensively but I like your version a lot more.
I agree with affinity being such a hard match up. I remember playing against a budget version and I don't think that made it any easier. To me it seems like against affinity, discard just isn't that strong of a disruption to slow them down. Im not sure infest is fast enough because of cards like Steel Overseer and Master of Etherium. By the time I have mana for a sweeper, steel overseer would have pumped them all out of range.
I dunno, I haven't played much affinity but that seems to be the case for me. I'm considering bringing in Mutilate.
The thing with affinity is that you have so many things to side out - discards, go for the throat - and so little to add. _XuXa_ is now using Ratchet Bomb in sb instead of infest, dunno if it is better.
I really dont like despise. In that ravens crime spot i think the order is thoughtseize > raven's crime > duress > blackmail > despise. Theres probably something in between im missing, but if your paying 2 mana, you had better be getting 2 discards imo.
No, your anime sig is NOT cool.
Currently Playing:
Modern - R/G Tron
Standard - RDW
Also, Isochron Scepter has been great in this deck. It crushes the mirror and can shut some decks out of the game until they find an answer for it (assuming they have one). Sometimes you can just imprint removal, which other times you can imprint a Funeral Charm and just keep forcing them to discard in their draw step.
I think this deck needs to run 3-4 Geth's Verdicts for Geist of Saint Traft and (more importantly) the GW Aura deck.
Also, what do people think of Damnations/Barter in Blood in the side for Affinity? I think Tendrils might be something to look into as well, though I think it may be a bit too slow.
Because Go for the Throat doesn't hit hexproof guys, which is extremely relevant in the GW Aura matchup and incidentally relevant against GoST. Without any way to remove a Slippery Bogle or the Elf, this deck cannot beat it. Additionally, it's not an either/or situation, since you can run Go for the Throat for situations where that is relevant and Verdict for situations where that is better. Very often Verdict and Go for the Throat will be doing the same thing anyway, and you gain a huge advantage from having access to a sacrifice effect in certain matchups.
Barter in Blood is probably worse than Damnation. I just mention it because if Damnation is only going to be hitting 2 creatures on average, Barter becomes better because its a sacrifice effect (same advantage as above). As far as sacrificing our own creatures to it, this is solved by just holding creatures until after you cast it.
Ugh, I was the giganoob you played on the Friday night DE. So embarrassing.
Anyway, totally agree that scepter is great. Getting a funeral charm or removal imprinted is pretty much an uphill battle from there for fair decks. While I agree with another poster that Tribute to Hunger's life gain is sweet, you can imprint Geth's Verdict so it's much better.
I haven't played the aura/blouses match up but is Mutilate better because it can potentially get around totem armor? Or do creatures get too big for it to work?
Also, I was wondering how many scepters you run. 4? I was thinking of 3 would be a good number.
About the lists: I really think that Shadow of Doubt is a cool card that never have been in the highlights, but it is pretty bad in main deck. It turns tough match in even tougher, like affinity. I think it should be in SB, if we have a meta filled with pods, scapshifts, and eggs(it dodges leyline and is better than many cards, so... haha)
Also saw lists with veredict, test it and approved it. Don't know the optimal split for desfigurate/doom blade/go for the throat/victim of night/geth's veredict. I liked 3 desfigurate, 1 blade, 1 Go for the throat, 2 veredict, 0 victim. Or maybe -1 desf, +1 Go for the throat.
Didn't tested ratchet bomb instead of infest, but it seems better, as well as night's wish is better than sign in blood.
I saw no list that run scepter, though =x. How is it? My fear is that it is too situational, you need two cards in hand, sometimes you don't want to print what you have(for instance, print a raven's crime in the 2nd turn is kind of lame against many decks), sometimes you take a 2 vs 1 trade(abrupt decay in g1, many decks side ancient grudge or other hate in g2 to take care of nexus and pike...).
13 swamp
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 tectonic edge
4 phyrexian crusader
2 reaper of sheoldred
3 liliana of the dark realms
4 duress
4 disfigure
4 phyrexian arena
3 distress
3 wrench mind
3 tribute to hunger
2 dismember
2 runechanter's pike
4 relic of progenitus
reaper vs vatmother: the original list runs 4 vatmother, i've cutted them to 2 and replaced with the reaper cause if it gets chumpblocked we can still get 1 poison on the opponent instead on us in upkeep. 2/5 vs 4/5 with the related abilities it's not a big loss and the creature we want to connect it's the crusader!
liliana of the dark realms: i'm not sold on her yet but when she hits the ground it's a next turn reaper/crusader swing for 5(usually) or more...depending on swamps in play on our side.
phyrexian arena is a good choice and i'm fine with it.
As you can see i'm having sideboard problems, surgical+progenitus> combo and grave hate...but then? what can i add?
No, your anime sig is NOT cool.
Currently Playing:
Modern - R/G Tron
Standard - RDW
Main Deck
60 cards
2 Howltooth Hollow
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Overgrown Tomb
7 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
22 lands
4 Dark Confidant
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Phyrexian Crusader
10 creatures
4 Disfigure
1 Doom Blade
4 Funeral Charm
1 Go for the Throat
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Raven's Crime
2 Runechanter's Pike
4 Wrench Mind
28 other spells
Sideboard
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Infest
4 Nature's Claim
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Sickening Shoal
15 sideboard cards
It looks pretty insane. However I just don't have the money to add green. For my mono black list I'm thinking about adding 2 liliana of the veil and 2 Isochron Scepter.
I liked the Dark confident and the lilianas, but I am still wondering about the shoal in SB. Have you tested them? What you think about it?
The list looks good, but if one has such money(lily, dark confidents, dual, fetch), why don't replace crusader with goyf? it just seems better.I don't know if it is worth adding G to "only" get half of death rite shaman and nature's claim in SB.
I will definitely continue playing the mono B version as I said I cannot afford splashing green. Probably what I'm going to do next is to cut 2 of the 3 go for the throat and add geth's verdict instead. Also cut 2 raven's crime for isochron scepter (I really want to test them) and I still need to see how to include the lilianas. I will also get rid of at least 2 of the hideway lands.
You absolutely need global edicts in that case. There isn't a whole lot though in Modern. If that leyline isn't up you can often just edict their stuff or discard their busted enchantments. But beyond that, fast Infests might help (If you're on the play you Infest as soon as they start resolving dudes). As for viable edict possibilities? Barter in Blood, Fleshbag Marauder, and Smallpox. That's about it, and barter's a stretch but will do enough. I honestly think a minor green splash wouldn't hurt this list if it gives you access to relevant hate against this kind of matchup. Golgari Charm's pretty good sideboard tech.
EDIT: Forgot about Damnation
This deck could almost play like tempo at that point- run out an efficient infect beasty and back it up with hand disruption, removal, and countermagic.
I've been thinking about messing around with the removal a little bit, and putting in 4x Virulent Swipe, since it can either be removal with the first strike on Phyrexian Crusader or can just make Phyrexian Crusader an even quicker clock. These changes obviously are made to just make it more of an Infect Combo deck like the current tier1 BUG Infect Combo deck.
Thoughts?