@Chalubasfasdf: Yes, sadly Hand of the Praetors dies to Bolt, which is by far the most used spell in Modern. I would love to run him over Vatmother if that were not the case.
Is this deck playable without Liliana of the Veil? I'll pick them up eventually, but it'd be nice to build the shell out without...well...shelling out right away.
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
in my opinion, skipping on liliana makes the deck really clunkier. more removal (sacrifice too, it helps) or more discard all in one card saves tons of cardspace in the deck. i played two for budget reasons, but i would play a playset of her if i could.
moreover, i don't see her but rising in value as a modern staple, so even if you end up not using her, you're going to have your money back, probably more than what you invested initially (hoping she won't be banned of course).
in my opinion, skipping on liliana makes the deck really clunkier. more removal (sacrifice too, it helps) or more discard all in one card saves tons of cardspace in the deck. i played two for budget reasons, but i would play a playset of her if i could.
moreover, i don't see her but rising in value as a modern staple, so even if you end up not using her, you're going to have your money back, probably more than what you invested initially (hoping she won't be banned of course).
I don't question the value of the card, just the ability of the deck to be viable without it. Before I decide whether or not to put a deck together, I like to get an idea what the base investment is. Most of this deck is very inexpensive, but Lili is pretty steep. If playsets of Liliana of the Veil and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, are the baseline, you're a big piece of the way into more consistently successful decks like 8Rack and Rock.
I'm not saying that it's not worth building/playing, just that as the investment required to build the deck increases, so do the number of alternatives that could be played instead.
All that said, what would you consider the core of the deck?
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
consider i initially built this deck like it was a 8 rack deck, and i still consider them very close decks. and, for the same reason you stated, i retired this deck to build a 8-rack.
i agree with hateradio's core, minus the 2 vatmothers (unless you need creatures they're just copies 5-7 of phyrexian crusader).
I think four creatures (the Crusaders) + 4 Inkmoth are not enough, which is why i listed the Vatmothers. I actually don't like them, and prefer the crusaders by a large margin, but this deck needs creatures.
edit: I'd also add a few Cathedral of War, actually. I always like having one on the board.
It does look fun, and I like the idea of an alternate win con to the usual choices. Add to that the nigh-unkillable (via removal, at least) Phyrexian Crusader and I'm definitely intrigued.
The only card I'm not really loving in the core is Phyrexian Vatmother. If it had Trample or some kind of evasion, that'd be one thing, but I'm not fond of the idea of being chumped to death.
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon looks like a possible one or two-off, though I doubt I'd want to see multiples or see it early.
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- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
while skittles is a all around nice creature, i can't see this deck winning when it has the mana to cast and protect him. by this aspect, even vatmother is better. the crusader is godly unless you find opponents who have beast within or dismember or bile blight, you should still be wary of them, especially if the crusader is the only good card in your initial hand.
by the way, don't forget the swampwalk mode of funeral charm. just a urborg in play, or a opponent playing a swamp, and vatmother is 4 unblockable damage per turn.
i also agree that Dismember is greater than Disfigure. So i run about 3 copies in the main. Huge difference because of its versatility to use early going down to late game situations. Life loss matters not that much.
I am also testing 3 copies of Read the Bones right now. Much better than Sign in Blood (because of its BB cost). And also fairly better than Night's Whisper (because Scry 2 is great). Yes, it costs 2B, you have to be aggressive early on ripping your opponents' hand. So casting draw spells early means a slight tempo loss. And cast threats (esp. Phyrexian Crusader) when you have clear path (no counters/removals because of early aggressive discards).
Just want to test 2 copies Hero's Downfall on the main, is it okay to be there?
i know this is mono black but has anyone splashed green for rancor?
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
yeah, i'm using 2 copies of Cathedral of War instead of 1-2 copies of Lashwrithe.. The land makes our threat to push damage through (+1/+1 bonus).. Lashwrithe is a fine card though.. But, sad to say that it deals normal damage instead of infect..
Btw, i am happy that Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is getting its reprint on M15! I can get a copy or two now in a maybe lower price!
i considered rancor for the sideboard against decks who have non white and non red creatures (eg jund). for the rest, the creatures in here are either evasive enough or big enough to just keep on pushing.
Wow. Funeral Charm is an amazing card for all it does. This deck definitely needs to be built around the 4 Inquisition, 4 Funeral Charm foundation.
Also, I see people talking about this deck as a "starter's" deck before they build 8Rack or BGx. honestly, I don't see why this deck can't be as good as or *better* than those two decks. This deck has a better clock than 8rack and it basically plays the best stuff that BGx has, and the poison creatures are often more effective than the green creatures.
Wow. Funeral Charm is an amazing card for all it does. This deck definitely needs to be built around the 4 Inquisition, 4 Funeral Charm foundation.
Also, I see people talking about this deck as a "starter's" deck before they build 8Rack or BGx. honestly, I don't see why this deck can't be as good as or *better* than those two decks. This deck has a better clock than 8rack and it basically plays the best stuff that BGx has, and the poison creatures are often more effective than the green creatures.
the reason is, you need to stop the discarding to play a non nexus threat, from 3 mana and up; the pike is a horrible topdeck if you don't have a creature and requires 6 lands to put on an inkmoth to swing, 4 otherwise.
threats in 8rack cost 1 mana, and it maindecks bridge, which is an out to any aggro strategy; lands in excess of 3 can be discarded freely to raven's crime to keep an opponent out of answers/mana screwed.
lastly, the rack can hit planeswalkers, which is always been a weakness of monob, and you don't need to go in the combat phase to do so (bad experience with a turbofog deck ^^).
i'm not saying mono-b infect is a bad deck, or for beginners, just that it matches up poorly with jund and tron.
also wait until waste not will be legal, and the zombies that will be created with it will be hitting the wrong damage.
how does this deck beat the white leyline??? im running this deck at fnm this week.
you usually don't. you either splash green or white for enchantment removal, or you side in ratchet bomb against every deck that can have the leyline sb.
if they don't mull and have it in hand, it will be uphill to you. hope in a liliana.
if they mull looking for it, chances are they won't have a quick hand. tick up a ratchet to 4 or just go and try to outaggro them.
if they don't have it, do your best to discard topdecked copies and try and keep them off the 4th mana.
but in 50+ matches with the deck i saw the leyline just once, so i don't think it's that widely used.
Thanks for the reply. I took this deck to FNM tonight and I went 3-1. I beat a scrub deck, r/b discard, soul sisters and lost to W/B tokens. The deck was a lot of fun to play and after the event I was able to trade for the last couple cards I needed to complete the deck itself. I just need to upgrade my sign in bloods to nights whisper.
One card I really like in the sideboard is surgical extraction. Because the deck has so much discard it's great in combo and control matches.
Hey guys! Is mono black infect still alive? It does sort of well in my local meta so I still run it. I have a list and feedback on it would be much appreciated.
So basically this list has decent matchups with most of my meta, especially control. It's a 50/50 with MonoUtron, though the biggest problems I run into are B/g/x, Jund, and Affinity.
The aggro is hard to manage especially with few board wipes. For the first two their removal has much more value which makes it difficult for me to make my threats stick. My only hope is to stall them out with the ensnaring bridge. This doesn't last too much though.
For affinity, their type of aggro is way too fast which usually involves spewing out their entire hand by turn 2/3. Discard makes little difference in this matchup and spot removal is inefficient on ravager and champion. I tried including consume the meek to answer Jund and Affinity and it works well on the latter so far. I haven't had a chance to test it on Jund/B/g/x yet, but any comments would be highly appreciated. ^^
I tried out this deck the other day. I really like it. Unfortunately, I went 0-3. The deck's biggest problem, so far as I can see, is Cryptic Command. What the dilly? Counter target spell, bounce something? Incredible loss of tempo. I'm not quite sure what in mono-black can help this out, if anything.
I came across the "time traveler's mill" deck and couldn't beat. Made them discard five cards by turn 3; they drew them all back. I haven't thought of a way to beat that deck save with Underworld Dreams- and they'll probably bounce it before they take 20 damage.
I really like how the deck seems to match up against Pod and Twin, but I've never seen those. Just lots of control. I'll keep plugging away with it for a while longer to see if I don't get any better results. Defense Grid? For the decks that can't really draw cards and need to win by turn 4-5, mono-black infect seems like a blowout.
Also, I am probably going to run two copies of Eradicate in the sideboard. Getting rid of all the Goyfs, or all the Meliras, or all the Wurmcoils all in one shot seems really powerful.
That "Time traveler's mill" deck sounds interesting, given that it managed to comeback after losing 5 cards. what was that deck's win con? Also what list do you run?
Unfortunately Cryptic Command is something that you really have to play around as black doesn't really have anything up it's sleeve, save from getting it discarded, that can deal with it. I'd go with siding in Duress against control or whatever decks run it.
Twin is surprisingly easier to deal with than Pod because the latter can opt for a beatdown which is quite hard to manage in monoblack. You'd just have to time your removal much more precisely. Defense Grid isn't something you'd want since removal is best played on their turn when it matters.
Eradicate is interesting to run in modern. It's a game changer if it connects, much like sowing salt, but at 4CMC in a fast format that's quite hard to manage. The sorcery speed also hinders is somewhat when you consider other forms of removal (Pod can just sac Melira in resp. for example then recur her afterwards), but it would be interesting to see how it would play against what you've mentioned.
Hey guys. It's my first post here.
Yesterday I tried a Bg Infect for the first time in a local tournament and I won it.
In the first round I got bye, after I played against a Melira Pod, a WUR Control and a Merfolk (being my only loss).
Both Melira Pod and WUR had no chance. The deck was very fast to keep the opponent with no cards in hand.
But I was devasted by the merfolks. I need something against fast aggro decks in the sideboard (maybe damnation).
Some considerations:
I want to use one more overgrown tomb and one more urborg.
I'm note sure if I play with 21 or 22 lands.
I think Vatmother is a beast, it hits the board 1 turn faster than Skittles and skips bolts, lightning helix, Electrolyze and Anger of the gods.
I was not sure if Runechanter's Pike was necessary before the tournament, but it is, being possible to kill the opponent with 1 attack.
I'm thinking to cut 1 maelstrom pulse, it's slow.
I think green is necessary. Abrupt Decay is amazing, and it deals with leyline of sanctity, Aura Hexproof.
Devour Flesh is amazing. Is irrelevant the opponent's life gain, can deal with hexproof creatures and in the last case we can sacrifice a Vatmother to gain life.
Hey guys! Is mono black infect still alive? It does sort of well in my local meta so I still run it. I have a list and feedback on it would be much appreciated.
So basically this list has decent matchups with most of my meta, especially control. It's a 50/50 with MonoUtron, though the biggest problems I run into are B/g/x, Jund, and Affinity.
The aggro is hard to manage especially with few board wipes. For the first two their removal has much more value which makes it difficult for me to make my threats stick. My only hope is to stall them out with the ensnaring bridge. This doesn't last too much though.
For affinity, their type of aggro is way too fast which usually involves spewing out their entire hand by turn 2/3. Discard makes little difference in this matchup and spot removal is inefficient on ravager and champion. I tried including consume the meek to answer Jund and Affinity and it works well on the latter so far. I haven't had a chance to test it on Jund/B/g/x yet, but any comments would be highly appreciated. ^^
Yes, I think the Mono B Infect is still alive. But I'm not sure if Mono Black is the best option. Is easy to splash another color and get some important tools to deal with artifacts and enchantments.
I like your list, but I would cut the Lashwrithe, I think it's not necessary. It's 4 mana and you already have Runechanter's
Only 1 arena is enough to refuel your hand? Have you tried Night's Whisper?
I thought about Consume the Meek in the side, since it doesn't kill our Vatmothers, but 5 mana scares me. How it works with you?
Thanks for the feedback! I'd like to say your list looks solid, but the splash scares me haha. It looks like you can run it consistently and your removal is superior, but I think you trade off versatility with speed. It shouldn't matter since we're supposed to be control, but one of MBC's strengths is chaining early discard to remove the opponent's hand by T3.
I would definitely like to playtest your list (Got stalled by a bogle deck in a tournament once with Leyline of Sanctity). You should go with 22 lands since you will be playing something more "grind-ier".
I think the splash also restricts you from black's diverse removal. Devour Flesh is good but giving your opponent options offsets it. It would only really work best against control (Won't do much to affinity or merfolk, should be a sideboard option), and in any case you have to time it right. I prefer targeted removal since it kills what you need it to kill at any moment. Try Dismembers instead.
Also Consume the Meek has been amazing against aggro so far. Tokens die to it. Manlands die to it. 5 mana is okay considering you have an instant speed board wipe that can be played in your favor. All you have to do is survive til turn 5 and wait for their alpha strike. This shouldn't be too difficult with so much disruption and removal. Nobody sees an instant speed wrath effect coming.
A problem you seem to face is dealing with aggro, a few Damnations/Drown in Sorrows/Infests in the sideboard should help with that. Though if you keep the green splash, Ensnaring Bridge would be enough. This shuts down aggro big time, seriously consider this.
Choke is definitely a meta call. Sideboard Option, if ever. If everyone in your local tournaments runs islands then by all means run it. Waste Not is very tempting at first but it's far too slow. You have a lot of disruption to play which you'd rather do than drop this.
Similar to that, Lashwrithe also proves to be explosive (It costs about the same to equip with a pike because of phyrexian mana) but I think it doesn't run as well with a splash. Urborg fixes this but it doesn't show up too often anyway.
It's the virtually "free" equip that really matters. It can win you games. I run it because I can get it to consistently give +4/+4 in most of my games. Also, a problem MBC has is creature density. This deck's curve on creatures really sucks, at least Lashwrithe provides a blocker for a turn or so, but that's just me.
I'm honestly set on the Arena. It plays so much better than it did with Night's Whisper. I'm just not sure about the number. So much raw (and consistent) card advantage is sure to win you games. Hurts less than bob and is a pain to remove too.
I think I cut the whisper's for Liliana of the Veil as well. Putting one LoTV down puts pressure that punishing the opponent for ignoring it (That -6 sure is painful). The consistent discard removes their hand totally. (and mine as well, which isn't so bad for me as I run Howltooth Hollow )
As powerful as Liliana is, the best thing about it is that it shifts your opponents focus from you to answering it, which buys us enough time.
I had this deck built not knowing it was a thing...curious about a few cards. I'm an old timey player just getting back into the swing of things so my suggestions might be outdated or whatever, but hear me out: Hymn To Tourach seems like it should be automatic? Planar Void also seems like some solid graveyard hate Victim of Night has always been one of my favorite removal spells. Not many people play vampires or werewolves for it to cause problems and all of the zombies come back from the dead anyway. stromgald cabal might help with all of the white Leyline troubles. You can't do anything if they start with it on the board but it could prevent it from coming out.
In similar fashion xenic poltergeist could help with pesky artifact removal.
Also has anyone thought of throwing in Cabal Coffers with Howl from beyond for a one turn KO? Or Endless Scream? Those could add some pump.
I'd love to hear some feedback because this deck seems awesome to me
I thought that was probably the case. Even Volcanic Fallout, Pyroclasm, and Anger of the Gods, could deal with it.
Is this deck playable without Liliana of the Veil? I'll pick them up eventually, but it'd be nice to build the shell out without...well...shelling out right away.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
moreover, i don't see her but rising in value as a modern staple, so even if you end up not using her, you're going to have your money back, probably more than what you invested initially (hoping she won't be banned of course).
I don't question the value of the card, just the ability of the deck to be viable without it. Before I decide whether or not to put a deck together, I like to get an idea what the base investment is. Most of this deck is very inexpensive, but Lili is pretty steep. If playsets of Liliana of the Veil and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, are the baseline, you're a big piece of the way into more consistently successful decks like 8Rack and Rock.
I'm not saying that it's not worth building/playing, just that as the investment required to build the deck increases, so do the number of alternatives that could be played instead.
All that said, what would you consider the core of the deck?
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/236688
No Lili.
I'd definitely advice against four Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. One or two are enough, though I think I'll add two or three copies of her into my deck.
The "Core" of this deck is probably:
4x Funeral Charm
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Phyrexian Vatmother
2x Runechanter's Pike
+ your favorite hand-disruption and creature-removal package.
It's a really fun deck to play.
i agree with hateradio's core, minus the 2 vatmothers (unless you need creatures they're just copies 5-7 of phyrexian crusader).
edit: I'd also add a few Cathedral of War, actually. I always like having one on the board.
It does look fun, and I like the idea of an alternate win con to the usual choices. Add to that the nigh-unkillable (via removal, at least) Phyrexian Crusader and I'm definitely intrigued.
The only card I'm not really loving in the core is Phyrexian Vatmother. If it had Trample or some kind of evasion, that'd be one thing, but I'm not fond of the idea of being chumped to death.
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon looks like a possible one or two-off, though I doubt I'd want to see multiples or see it early.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
by the way, don't forget the swampwalk mode of funeral charm. just a urborg in play, or a opponent playing a swamp, and vatmother is 4 unblockable damage per turn.
I am also testing 3 copies of Read the Bones right now. Much better than Sign in Blood (because of its BB cost). And also fairly better than Night's Whisper (because Scry 2 is great). Yes, it costs 2B, you have to be aggressive early on ripping your opponents' hand. So casting draw spells early means a slight tempo loss. And cast threats (esp. Phyrexian Crusader) when you have clear path (no counters/removals because of early aggressive discards).
Just want to test 2 copies Hero's Downfall on the main, is it okay to be there?
i know this is mono black but has anyone splashed green for rancor?
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Btw, i am happy that Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is getting its reprint on M15! I can get a copy or two now in a maybe lower price!
Also, I see people talking about this deck as a "starter's" deck before they build 8Rack or BGx. honestly, I don't see why this deck can't be as good as or *better* than those two decks. This deck has a better clock than 8rack and it basically plays the best stuff that BGx has, and the poison creatures are often more effective than the green creatures.
the reason is, you need to stop the discarding to play a non nexus threat, from 3 mana and up; the pike is a horrible topdeck if you don't have a creature and requires 6 lands to put on an inkmoth to swing, 4 otherwise.
threats in 8rack cost 1 mana, and it maindecks bridge, which is an out to any aggro strategy; lands in excess of 3 can be discarded freely to raven's crime to keep an opponent out of answers/mana screwed.
lastly, the rack can hit planeswalkers, which is always been a weakness of monob, and you don't need to go in the combat phase to do so (bad experience with a turbofog deck ^^).
i'm not saying mono-b infect is a bad deck, or for beginners, just that it matches up poorly with jund and tron.
also wait until waste not will be legal, and the zombies that will be created with it will be hitting the wrong damage.
you usually don't. you either splash green or white for enchantment removal, or you side in ratchet bomb against every deck that can have the leyline sb.
if they don't mull and have it in hand, it will be uphill to you. hope in a liliana.
if they mull looking for it, chances are they won't have a quick hand. tick up a ratchet to 4 or just go and try to outaggro them.
if they don't have it, do your best to discard topdecked copies and try and keep them off the 4th mana.
but in 50+ matches with the deck i saw the leyline just once, so i don't think it's that widely used.
One card I really like in the sideboard is surgical extraction. Because the deck has so much discard it's great in combo and control matches.
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Howltooth Hollow
4x Inkmoth Nexus
15x Swamps
Creatures:
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Phyrexian Vatmother
Instants/Sorceries:
1x Thoughtseize
1x Damnation
2x Victim of Night
2x Dismember
3x Disfigure
3x Raven's Crime
4x Funeral Charm
4x Wrench Mind
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Phyrexian Arena
Planeswalkers:
2x Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts:
1x Lashwrithe
2x Runechanter's Pike
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Duress
2x Sudden Spoiling
2x Consume the Meek
2x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Drown in Sorrow
So basically this list has decent matchups with most of my meta, especially control. It's a 50/50 with MonoUtron, though the biggest problems I run into are B/g/x, Jund, and Affinity.
The aggro is hard to manage especially with few board wipes. For the first two their removal has much more value which makes it difficult for me to make my threats stick. My only hope is to stall them out with the ensnaring bridge. This doesn't last too much though.
For affinity, their type of aggro is way too fast which usually involves spewing out their entire hand by turn 2/3. Discard makes little difference in this matchup and spot removal is inefficient on ravager and champion. I tried including consume the meek to answer Jund and Affinity and it works well on the latter so far. I haven't had a chance to test it on Jund/B/g/x yet, but any comments would be highly appreciated. ^^
I came across the "time traveler's mill" deck and couldn't beat. Made them discard five cards by turn 3; they drew them all back. I haven't thought of a way to beat that deck save with Underworld Dreams- and they'll probably bounce it before they take 20 damage.
I really like how the deck seems to match up against Pod and Twin, but I've never seen those. Just lots of control. I'll keep plugging away with it for a while longer to see if I don't get any better results. Defense Grid? For the decks that can't really draw cards and need to win by turn 4-5, mono-black infect seems like a blowout.
Also, I am probably going to run two copies of Eradicate in the sideboard. Getting rid of all the Goyfs, or all the Meliras, or all the Wurmcoils all in one shot seems really powerful.
Unfortunately Cryptic Command is something that you really have to play around as black doesn't really have anything up it's sleeve, save from getting it discarded, that can deal with it. I'd go with siding in Duress against control or whatever decks run it.
Twin is surprisingly easier to deal with than Pod because the latter can opt for a beatdown which is quite hard to manage in monoblack. You'd just have to time your removal much more precisely. Defense Grid isn't something you'd want since removal is best played on their turn when it matters.
Eradicate is interesting to run in modern. It's a game changer if it connects, much like sowing salt, but at 4CMC in a fast format that's quite hard to manage. The sorcery speed also hinders is somewhat when you consider other forms of removal (Pod can just sac Melira in resp. for example then recur her afterwards), but it would be interesting to see how it would play against what you've mentioned.
EDIT: I came across the "Time Traveler's Mill" deck (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-deck-creation/528014-lets-do-the-time-warp-again) and it seems that Mono Black infect has little interaction with it as removal is rendered useless against it. I guess the best way to go about it is to play aggro and rush pike/inkmoth against it while playing as much disruption as possible.
Yesterday I tried a Bg Infect for the first time in a local tournament and I won it.
In the first round I got bye, after I played against a Melira Pod, a WUR Control and a Merfolk (being my only loss).
Both Melira Pod and WUR had no chance. The deck was very fast to keep the opponent with no cards in hand.
But I was devasted by the merfolks. I need something against fast aggro decks in the sideboard (maybe damnation).
Some considerations:
I want to use one more overgrown tomb and one more urborg.
I'm note sure if I play with 21 or 22 lands.
I think Vatmother is a beast, it hits the board 1 turn faster than Skittles and skips bolts, lightning helix, Electrolyze and Anger of the gods.
I was not sure if Runechanter's Pike was necessary before the tournament, but it is, being possible to kill the opponent with 1 attack.
I'm thinking to cut 1 maelstrom pulse, it's slow.
I think green is necessary. Abrupt Decay is amazing, and it deals with leyline of sanctity, Aura Hexproof.
Devour Flesh is amazing. Is irrelevant the opponent's life gain, can deal with hexproof creatures and in the last case we can sacrifice a Vatmother to gain life.
This is the list I'm playing with.
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Forest
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Marsh Flats
7x Swamp
Creatures:
4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Phyrexian Vatmother
Instants/Sorceries:
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Wrench Mind
4x Funeral Charm
2x Thoughtseize
2x Raven's Crime
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Devour Flesh
2x Night's Whisper
2x Read the bones
2x Runechanter's Pike
Planeswalkers:
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x leyline of the void
3x Pithing Needle
3x Nature's Claim
3x Surgical Extraction
1x DeathMark
1x Back to Nature
What do you guys think about Waste Not?
And about Choke in the sideboard, to deal with control decks and merfolks?
Sorry for my poor english.
Yes, I think the Mono B Infect is still alive. But I'm not sure if Mono Black is the best option. Is easy to splash another color and get some important tools to deal with artifacts and enchantments.
I like your list, but I would cut the Lashwrithe, I think it's not necessary. It's 4 mana and you already have Runechanter's
Only 1 arena is enough to refuel your hand? Have you tried Night's Whisper?
I thought about Consume the Meek in the side, since it doesn't kill our Vatmothers, but 5 mana scares me. How it works with you?
I would definitely like to playtest your list (Got stalled by a bogle deck in a tournament once with Leyline of Sanctity). You should go with 22 lands since you will be playing something more "grind-ier".
I think the splash also restricts you from black's diverse removal. Devour Flesh is good but giving your opponent options offsets it. It would only really work best against control (Won't do much to affinity or merfolk, should be a sideboard option), and in any case you have to time it right. I prefer targeted removal since it kills what you need it to kill at any moment. Try Dismembers instead.
Also Consume the Meek has been amazing against aggro so far. Tokens die to it. Manlands die to it. 5 mana is okay considering you have an instant speed board wipe that can be played in your favor. All you have to do is survive til turn 5 and wait for their alpha strike. This shouldn't be too difficult with so much disruption and removal. Nobody sees an instant speed wrath effect coming.
A problem you seem to face is dealing with aggro, a few Damnations/Drown in Sorrows/Infests in the sideboard should help with that. Though if you keep the green splash, Ensnaring Bridge would be enough. This shuts down aggro big time, seriously consider this.
Choke is definitely a meta call. Sideboard Option, if ever. If everyone in your local tournaments runs islands then by all means run it. Waste Not is very tempting at first but it's far too slow. You have a lot of disruption to play which you'd rather do than drop this.
Runchanter's Pike is such a boss. Your cheap spells fuel it a lot and is really scary on a Crusader or Inkmoth Nexus.
Similar to that, Lashwrithe also proves to be explosive (It costs about the same to equip with a pike because of phyrexian mana) but I think it doesn't run as well with a splash. Urborg fixes this but it doesn't show up too often anyway.
It's the virtually "free" equip that really matters. It can win you games. I run it because I can get it to consistently give +4/+4 in most of my games. Also, a problem MBC has is creature density. This deck's curve on creatures really sucks, at least Lashwrithe provides a blocker for a turn or so, but that's just me.
I'm honestly set on the Arena. It plays so much better than it did with Night's Whisper. I'm just not sure about the number. So much raw (and consistent) card advantage is sure to win you games. Hurts less than bob and is a pain to remove too.
I think I cut the whisper's for Liliana of the Veil as well. Putting one LoTV down puts pressure that punishing the opponent for ignoring it (That -6 sure is painful). The consistent discard removes their hand totally. (and mine as well, which isn't so bad for me as I run Howltooth Hollow )
As powerful as Liliana is, the best thing about it is that it shifts your opponents focus from you to answering it, which buys us enough time.
Hymn To Tourach seems like it should be automatic?
Planar Void also seems like some solid graveyard hate
Victim of Night has always been one of my favorite removal spells. Not many people play vampires or werewolves for it to cause problems and all of the zombies come back from the dead anyway.
stromgald cabal might help with all of the white Leyline troubles. You can't do anything if they start with it on the board but it could prevent it from coming out.
In similar fashion xenic poltergeist could help with pesky artifact removal.
Also has anyone thought of throwing in Cabal Coffers with Howl from beyond for a one turn KO? Or Endless Scream? Those could add some pump.
I'd love to hear some feedback because this deck seems awesome to me
Turn 1 swamp, dark rit, duress, hymn to tourach and a surgical extraction is too tasty of a turn one.