WUR Delver

  • #151
    I would drop the 2 pillar for spell pierce. We have enough removal. Pierce and Remand should help vs twin combo and tron, and keeping LIli off the board vs Jund.
  • #152
    I would prefer izzet charm instead of spell pierce, its a little slower, but gives a lot more versatility.
  • #153
    Quote from Jmills
    So my roommate whomped up a RDW deck, and then proceeded to walk on me. I'm new to playing delver in general, but I just can't keep up with his burn and I can't stop him from just forked bolting all of my threats before they can do anything. Any tips?


    From your list, I'd side out 4 Remand and 4 Lynx for the Pierces, Negate, Ajani, Firewalkers, and Burst Lightnings. Then play the match very patiently, you are ALWAYS the control deck in this matchup. Don't tap out for anything until you can hold up disruption mana (whether for his creatures or spells), and win off of a protected Geist, Firewalker, or Ajani. If you need more blockers, maybe keep in the Lynxes and scrap some of the removal or countermagic, depending on his list. Lynx is hard to kill if you don't fetch and attack aggressively, so force him to use his 3-damage spells on it. Your biggest game is casting early removal into Lightning Helix into Snapcaster on Lightning Helix. Firewalker should just win the game by itself if you protect it.

    Keep in mind that your friend's Burn deck represents a small chunk of the format, and if it's tuned to beat you (maindeck Forked Bolts seems wrong otherwise), than you're just getting skewed results. What's his list look like, if you have it?
    Current decks:


    STANDARD
    RRR Mono-Red RRR
    RG R/G Monsters GR

    MODERN
    BGR Jund RGB
    WUR WUR DelverRWU
    RG R/G Zoo GR

    LEGACY
    RUG RUG Delver GUR
    BUG BUG Delver GUB
  • #154
    Thanks for the quick reply, I'm picking up a playset of everything you have listed in the primer, I just need to figure out what hands to keep and what's a good mix for sb.
  • #155
    I would probably take out geists, you dont want to tap out, he´s slow, and easy to block. Lynxes would be my next candidate, but they at least can be decent bloquers, so i would keep them. Be smart with your fetches, and forked bolt wont be a problem.

    Both pillars seems useless in that mu, so replace them.
    Get in negate, kors, ajani and spellpierce.
  • #156
    Quote from HomelandZecurity
    From your list, I'd side out 4 Remand and 4 Lynx for the Pierces, Negate, Ajani, Firewalkers, and Burst Lightnings. Then play the match very patiently, you are ALWAYS the control deck in this matchup. Don't tap out for anything until you can hold up disruption mana (whether for his creatures or spells), and win off of a protected Geist, Firewalker, or Ajani. If you need more blockers, maybe keep in the Lynxes and scrap some of the removal or countermagic, depending on his list. Lynx is hard to kill if you don't fetch and attack aggressively, so force him to use his 3-damage spells on it. Your biggest game is casting early removal into Lightning Helix into Snapcaster on Lightning Helix. Firewalker should just win the game by itself if you protect it.

    Keep in mind that your friend's Burn deck represents a small chunk of the format, and if it's tuned to beat you (maindeck Forked Bolts seems wrong otherwise), than you're just getting skewed results. What's his list look like, if you have it?


    This is the list he's currently playing with:
    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7762632&postcount=139
    Not him, just one that he liked when he was looking around.
  • #157
    So what changes are you guys making when RtR hits? The charms look nice and the 1/2 for 1 that you can exile an instant/sorc for two +1/+1 counters should at least be tested for those who don't like Steppe Lynx.

    I haven't tuned this deck in quite a while, it works very well as it is but I think when the new set releases Im going to try two Izzet Charms over Spell Pierces and maybe even the Elemental over the Lynx just to playtest and see how he does. Sometimes removal just simply isn't useful in your hand, seems a bit less situational over Lynx (maybe).
  • #158
    I've already turned my 3 flex spots into 2 Izzet Charm 1 Pillar of Flame. (Among other things, they were 2 Molten Rain 1 Pillar and 2 Pillar 1 Traft.) Izzet Charm has been awesome when I've been testing other decks and it's still good here.

    I tried Nivmagus Elemental in a Grixis deck with targeted discard, cheap counterspells, and cantrips, and it was mediocre at best against non-blue decks. I can't quite recommend it here, especially since it cannot cooperate with Tiago, but it might behave differently in a deck with far fewer disruption spells.
  • #159
    Im tempted to try one cyclonic rift at least in the SB, the ability to return annoying permanents is good, and if the game extends too long and our strategy starts to fail, it can be a good way to get back on track.
  • #160
    Quote from Rhinne
    I would probably take out geists, you dont want to tap out, he´s slow, and easy to block. Lynxes would be my next candidate, but they at least can be decent bloquers, so i would keep them. Be smart with your fetches, and forked bolt wont be a problem.

    Both pillars seems useless in that mu, so replace them.
    Get in negate, kors, ajani and spellpierce.


    I think you're right about everything here except the Geists. You need a victory condition to stay on the board, and Geist is it. He can close the game out faster than anything else in our deck, especially if the RDW player has no blockers. Trying to get there with a couple Firewalkers isn't a great plan, and the rest of our dudes are easily burned if they look like a threat. RDW has no maindeck answers for Geist, and probably very few post-board. Sure, they can block, but that means they aren't attacking you, which is absolutely fine. We're going to be actively removing their dudes anyway, and most of them don't stick around very long in the first place. It might be right to cut down to 2-3 Geists, but I'd never cut them completely against RedRemoval.dec.

    Jmills, that's definitely a rogue RDW build, and I wouldn't stress too much about your matchup there. Test it, get good at beating him as often as possible, but realize that it's not a mainstream build. Bump in the Night decks are more common, so it's good to have a plan against Red in general, but don't lose sleep over it.

    As for the changes with RTR, I'm basically just testing out 2 Izzet Charms in the maindeck. Not much else changes for me yet, but it's possible that a couple other cards may be good additions as well.
    Last edited by HomelandZecurity: 10/1/2012 9:36:48 AM
    Current decks:


    STANDARD
    RRR Mono-Red RRR
    RG R/G Monsters GR

    MODERN
    BGR Jund RGB
    WUR WUR DelverRWU
    RG R/G Zoo GR

    LEGACY
    RUG RUG Delver GUR
    BUG BUG Delver GUB
  • #161
    So I just finished this deck on magic online and ran it through a daily event last night finishing 3-1. Here is the list I ran:
    chags's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Arid Mesa
    1 Eiganjo Castle
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    1 Island
    2 Marsh Flats
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    1 Sacred Foundry
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Steam Vents
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Geist of Saint Traft
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Steppe Lynx
    2 Forked Bolt
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lightning Helix
    1 Magma Jet
    1 Mana Leak
    4 Path to Exile
    4 Remand
    4 Serum Visions

    2 Molten Rain
    1 Negate
    1 Pillar of Flame
    3 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Smash to Smithereens
    2 Sowing Salt
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Threads of Disloyalty



    All the lists in the daily (including some interesting tribal flames wur decks) can be found here:
    http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/4392674

    I beat uw restoration mid range 2-1, lost to soul sisters 0-2, won the mirror 2-1, and beat rug delver 2-0. After last night I decided some changes needed to be made, especially to the side board. From the main deck I went -1 Magma Jet +1 Grim Lavamancer mostly because 15 threats felt too light and lavamancer is great in a lot of match ups, we seem to fill the graveyard quickly. From the sideboard I went -3 relic of progenitus -1 sowing salt -1 smash to smithereens +2 kor firewalker +1 phantasmal image +1 molten rain +1 shattering spree. Relic of progenitus is a solid card but it is unnecessary, living end is practically nonexistent and kor firewalker does a fine job against storm while also being great in the mirror and against burn, he is also decent against jund. I added a phantasmal image to both help in the matches where I feel threat light and give me answers to gifts and geist of saint traft in the mirror. Geist is very problematic for this deck (surprise surprise) and I want to make sure I can answer without sacrificing my own. Sowing salt is great against tron but probably too slow a lot of the time, and not good enough against valakut. Molten rain has better value against valakut while also being good against tron (though not great). Smash to smithereens feels very mediocre, killing one artifact against affinity is often not enough. I do like it's value against sword of war and peace in the uw match as well as isochron scepter in the mirror and vedalken shackles out of rug. When the new set is released I plan to cut the mana leak and most likely a forked bolt from my main for 2 izzet charm but beyond that I really like where the deck is at.
  • #162
    Nice! Keep the updates coming!

    Did you play against the regular Mirror or the Tribal Flames deck? I'm curious to hear who is favored in that matchup, my hunch is that their painful mana base makes any advantage they might have null and void, but I want to verify that theory. Let us know if you get some XP on that.

    Frickin' soul sisters.
    Current decks:


    STANDARD
    RRR Mono-Red RRR
    RG R/G Monsters GR

    MODERN
    BGR Jund RGB
    WUR WUR DelverRWU
    RG R/G Zoo GR

    LEGACY
    RUG RUG Delver GUR
    BUG BUG Delver GUB
  • #163
    I like the split between smash and spree, i may try that out myself, but if affinity is such a huge deal for you, why no hurky´s or annul?
  • #164
    The wur list I beat was not running Tribal Flames but I agree that the life loss from all those lands probably negates the advantage of flames. I don't run hurkyl's because buying you one turn is somewhat mediocre, this deck is very well equipped to kill all their creatures the only artifact you really need to concern yourself with is cranial plating. Annul could be good but my sb is really tight, finding room is tough and when we can kill almost every dude they play just don't feel it is warranted.

    After making my previously proposed changes I finished 3-1 again, this time my only loss came to falling asleep before round four started.....:rolleyes:. The deck now looks like this:
    chags's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Arid Mesa
    1 Eiganjo Castle
    1 Hallowed Fountain
    1 Island
    2 Marsh Flats
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Mountain
    1 Plains
    1 Sacred Foundry
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Steam Vents
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Geist of Saint Traft
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Steppe Lynx
    2 Forked Bolt
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lightning Helix
    1 Mana Leak
    4 Path to Exile
    4 Remand
    4 Serum Visions

    2 Kor Firewalker
    3 Molten Rain
    1 Negate
    1 Phantasmal Image
    1 Pillar of Flame
    1 Shattering Spree
    1 Smash to Smithereens
    1 Sowing Salt
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Threads of Disloyalty


    The rest of the lists from the DE are here:http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/4392717 For those who haven't caught on yet my modo tag is Chagsal0t. I beat RG Tron 2-1, UR Ascension Storm 2-0, Gifts control 2-0, lost to falling asleep 0-1.

    I really like where the deck is at and the only changes I can think of are fitting a vendilion clique somewhere in the 75 as well as a sword of war and peace in the board. At the moment I'm leaning toward -1 threads of disloyalty +1 sword of war and peace. My only hesitation is that goyf can obviously be an issue and threads is lovely against jund and rug. There is a daily at 9:30 this evening I intend on running the list through, I may sneak a SoWaP into the board before then but other then that my list will remain the same. My game plan atm is to just stay awake for all four rounds.
  • #165
    Played the same list I posted earlier today in the 9:30p.m. daily, went 3-1 again. Beat uw restoration tempo 2-0, lost 0-2 to soul sisters (ugh so bad), beat rg scapeshift 2-1, and beat uw merfolk 2-0. Beyond soul sisters the matches felt very good, unfortunately soul sisters is unbeatable as far as I can tell.
  • #166
    Have you tried the gifts sideboard package?

    I write for Channel Fireball now! Read my CFB articles here. Read my Dies to Removal articles here. Read the definitive Red Deck Wins Primer here.

    Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.

    Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
  • #167
    Seems like Iona shuts down Soul Sisters pretty hard.
  • #168
    You beat merfolg 2-0? Im curious, that MU shouldnt be easy at all, so how did you go about it?
  • #169
    Quote from zemanjaski
    Have you tried the gifts sideboard package?


    No I haven't, I guess perhaps I should. It just seems like it makes the rest of the sideboard very tight. I've stayed away from it thus far because it seems like there is a lot to work out with it. What matches is it best against? Pod, affinity, mirror, soul sisters? Does it come in against anything else? Do you just roll with elesh and sphinx of steel win or do you go with iona too? What comes out for that many cards?

    EDIT: @Rhinne My list runs 2 forked bolt, 4 bolt, 4 helix, 4 path, 1 lavamancer in the main. Merfolk has a very hard time keeping threats on the table against me, I've beaten it pretty handily a few times. Unless they are smart enough to run spellskite the match is usually pretty easy if you manage your burn well.
  • #170
    Quote from zemanjaski
    Have you tried the gifts sideboard package?


    I'm also interested in more discussion on this. I've been looking at a lot of UWR Delver threads but so far I haven't seen a consensus. It look absolutely hilarious to run though. I'd probably pick it up right now if it wasn't ~$70.

    I'm not really a budget player, but I'd really like to know if it works well before making the investment.
  • #171
    Quote from Encendi
    I'm also interested in more discussion on this. I've been looking at a lot of UWR Delver threads but so far I haven't seen a consensus. It look absolutely hilarious to run though. I'd probably pick it up right now if it wasn't ~$70.

    I'm not really a budget player, but I'd really like to know if it works well before making the investment.


    I picked up the gifts package online and will be trying it out soon, but in the mean time more discussion on the topic would be great.
  • #172
    The gifts package is awesome. I prefer the gifts package to have 3-4 targets (Elesh, Iona, Sphinx, X) with the 4th slot going to whatever you may feel comfortable with. If your opponent isn't ready for it the game pretty much ends on the spot.

    Best advice:
    Proxy it up and practice with some table top games. I've heard both sides to the argument and can say it pretty much comes down to playstyle

    XXXX

    Modern
    WBRTeam ItaliaRBW

    Legacy
    WBGJunk StonebladeGBW

    EDH
    UBRNekusar, the MindrazerRBU
  • #173
    Quote from hgoalie09
    The gifts package is awesome. I prefer the gifts package to have 3-4 targets (Elesh, Iona, Sphinx, X) with the 4th slot going to whatever you may feel comfortable with. If your opponent isn't ready for it the game pretty much ends on the spot.

    Best advice:
    Proxy it up and practice with some table top games. I've heard both sides to the argument and can say it pretty much comes down to playstyle


    Unfortunately, I have few people to practice with... everyone who possesses a competitive Modern deck only comes to the LGS during Modern events, so I don't really have a chance to challenge them.

    I suppose I could try Cockatrice, but I'm not to fond of it when trying to actually practice playing competitively. I'll give it a go though.
  • #174
    My gifts package is;
    3 x gifts
    1 x elesh norn
    1 x Iona
    1 x lingering souls
    1 x unburial rites
    1 x faithless looting

    So half my board :p the looting can help when one of the reanimator targets gets stuck in your hand - you gifts for looting + unburial rites instead.

    The package is really powerful because it is very often a free win in game 2. Eg: Iona on black vs Jund; Elesh Norn vs Affinity etc.

    I write for Channel Fireball now! Read my CFB articles here. Read my Dies to Removal articles here. Read the definitive Red Deck Wins Primer here.

    Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.

    Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
  • #175
    Quote from zemanjaski
    My gifts package is;
    3 x gifts
    1 x elesh norn
    1 x Iona
    1 x lingering souls
    1 x unburial rites
    1 x faithless looting

    So half my board :p the looting can help when one of the reanimator targets gets stuck in your hand - you gifts for looting + unburial rites instead.

    The package is really powerful because it is very often a free win in game 2. Eg: Iona on black vs Jund; Elesh Norn vs Affinity etc.


    If you get cards stuck in hand and have to Gifts for Looting, do the full Gifts and get 4 cards. Worst case you get Looting to hand, save 2 mana and draw 2 extra cards or get Looting in grave, get something else you wanted and get extra cards. There is no loss, only wins.
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