@OneShotGame: The situations you mention can be covered by Cryptic Command, which might be preferable also because some of them start with assumption, that you didn't had a counterspell.
I am a strong advocate of Cryptic Command, I play 3 maindeck and never looked back.
Problem with Void Snare being a sorcery is different than Serum Visions being a sorcery.
Serum Visions makes you tap in your turn and since it doesn't have direct impact on game state, you have to decide if it is worth to tap one of your lands instead of holding mana up for some answer.
The problem with Void Snare is that as a sorcery, it is less effective. For example, it cannot stop non-creature permanents that affect combat (e.g. Cranial Plating), manlands, creatures with flash or haste, effects that target creatures etc, while instant speed bounce, like Cryptic Command, solves that.
I have nothing against trying it out, but I see no good argument for it.
I want to continue to play this deck but it has some glaring flaws that it must make up for, so I will continue to work on it, or maybe switch to UWR delver. Right now I'm experimenting with Esper.
I want to address the flaws and get your guys thoughts.
First, I feel that the mana base does half the work for our opponent. Even playing conservatively you're probably taking 1-3 points turn 1, 5 if you fetch, shock, Thoughtseize.
Delver is not always reliable. He is great when he's flipped, but that doesn't always happen. In other decks like UWR delver he works because those decks have larger threats with evasion like Geist and Resto Angel that demand attention, are stronger and have better evasion. The creatures we are using have weaker backsides, and no evasion outside of delver when he's flipped. It really slows down the deck.
This deck is too slow. Too many of the cards don't make a large enough impact, or are sorceries. Thoughtseize is amazing, but can't answer a goyf on the board the same way Path can.
Inquisition of Kozilek, Visions, Probe, Thoughtseize, are all strong cards, but slow the deck down. Especially when compared to lightning helix and path. It often times means we are only holding mana for counter magic, and don't have the ability to immediately answer a threat when it hits the board.
I like the grixis version a lot and am looking for some faster answers and stronger creatures.
Well I put this together after thinking about adding dark confidant. A It probably can be tweaked better. I have not really had a chance to play it much I feel like it could be better though.
Since we have red, I realized that Terminates could be played instead of Dismember or Smother. However, both are easier on the mana instead of Terminate. Also I think Cavern of Souls is an interesting addition since all the creatures are human. It also color fixes for all three and forces through counter magic. The black does give us access to Creeping Tar Pit. However, it does come into play tapped and is more mana intensive to use than Mutavault, but it does have more power and evasion. It also taps for colored mana. I also swapped Thoughtseizes out for Inquistion, to reduce life payment as the manabase and probes can stack up. I will add though I am not sure about the Gitaxian Probes especially with targeted discard. The discard makes my opponent reveal their hand and disrupts them as well. The probes do work well with Young Pyromancer to make almost free tokens.
Yonekura, i think your deck is a Bit too suicidal. But i myself Never tried Running probes in this deck, there has been quite an Argument in this thread about that.
Well I built around the legacy grixis delver list and the modern UR delver list. Playing with it a little it at times can be life hungry like you say. I have played it against a burn deck and Melira Pod with out side boarding. Both matches were tough. I am not sure what the win ratio was though.
Well, thinking of heading out to FNM tonight and will probably give Grixis Delver another go. I've been playing it a little on MTGO and feel like it's pretty well tuned. I'll report back with results, assuming I do end up going.
Here's the list I'll be running, still need another SB card, but I'll wait to see who all is there. Might just be another Spellskite cause that card is insane.
Hey b07, any Feedback from the tournament? Please Share.
I ended up going to a standard FNM that weekend, but I did go to a Modern Win-a-'goyf tournament yesterday, so I can give some feedback on how that went.
The list I ran was the same one as above except -1 Inquisition of Kozilek +1 Thoughtseize because I couldn't find my fourth Inquisition.
Round 1 was vs RG Tron. Game one he had trouble sticking anything relevant through Remands even after assembling turn three tron, and an Insectile Aberration got there. Game two we both had to mulligan but I abused his mana base with Molten Rain and Snapcaster to buy it back, and Dark Confidant helped close it out. Win 2-0
Round 2 was vs UR Twin. Game one he got stuck on three lands and after using Inquisition to see he had no way to stop Molten Rain I brought him down to a sole Island before he conceded to Snapcaster beats. Game two he tried to play the tempo game and we traded resources for a while but then I got a flipped Delver to stick and Confidant provided the answers to stop him from coming back. Win 2-0
Round 3 was vs WUR Geist. Game one was a slug-fest with me playing dorks and him blowing them up. Eventually he found one of his Geist of Saint Trafts and I was dead in a few short turns. Game two I came out fast and followed an early Delver with Molten Rain and he was never really even in the game. Game three was another grindy affair with him being able to answer my threats and me having lost 4 life to Thoughtseize + Snapcaster to flash it back, and right when I stabilize with said Snapcaster at three life he topdecks a bolt to finish me off. Loss 1-2.
Round 4 was vs URG Twin. I play an early Delver which gets in nine damage before he is able to remove it, after which I Inquisition his only Threat away and then Snapcaster it back to leave him with just lands and Splinter Twin in hand and he never does anything relevant. He mulligans game two and I rip his hand apart and just let Bob grind it out for me. Win 2-0
Cut to Top-4
Semi Finals vs WUR Geist: Plays out almost exactly like our first match, with the Thoughtseize being a liability more than anything, and me not being to get anything going in two of our three games. Loss 1-2.
He ended up lossing to Affinity in the Finals, which sucks cause I had packed a lot of Affinity hate and would have loved a shot at Tarmogoyf.
Overall I really liked how the deck performed and have since found my fourth Inquisition of Kozilek so no more life loss which is nice. Molten Rain was MVP single-handedly winning me two games and helping in a couple others. Vendilion Clique continued to not impress me and just left me walking into Electrolyzes. I want to test something else in its place and so far my main consideration is Nightveil Specter. It doesn't die to Electrolyze (let alone get blown out by it like Vendilion) and generates card advantage after the scirmish of the early-game has settled.
Also, I plan on changing the sideboard to -1 Spellskite (the ? in the list above) -1 Hurkyl's Recall / +1 Anger of the Gods +1 Cruel Edict. I want some way to kill Hexproof creatures and I saw a few aggro decks around (Merfolk, Zoo) that I wouldn't mind having Anger for.
Well, thinking of heading out to FNM tonight and will probably give Grixis Delver another go. I've been playing it a little on MTGO and feel like it's pretty well tuned. I'll report back with results, assuming I do end up going.
Here's the list I'll be running, still need another SB card, but I'll wait to see who all is there. Might just be another Spellskite cause that card is insane.
Hey b07, any Feedback from the tournament? Please Share.
I ended up going to a standard FNM that weekend, but I did go to a Modern Win-a-'goyf tournament yesterday, so I can give some feedback on how that went.
The list I ran was the same one as above except -1 Inquisition of Kozilek +1 Thoughtseize because I couldn't find my fourth Inquisition.
Round 1 was vs RG Tron. Game one he had trouble sticking anything relevant through Remands even after assembling turn three tron, and an Insectile Aberration got there. Game two we both had to mulligan but I abused his mana base with Molten Rain and Snapcaster to buy it back, and Dark Confidant helped close it out. Win 2-0
Round 2 was vs UR Twin. Game one he got stuck on three lands and after using Inquisition to see he had no way to stop Molten Rain I brought him down to a sole Island before he conceded to Snapcaster beats. Game two he tried to play the tempo game and we traded resources for a while but then I got a flipped Delver to stick and Confidant provided the answers to stop him from coming back. Win 2-0
Round 3 was vs WUR Geist. Game one was a slug-fest with me playing dorks and him blowing them up. Eventually he found one of his Geist of Saint Trafts and I was dead in a few short turns. Game two I came out fast and followed an early Delver with Molten Rain and he was never really even in the game. Game three was another grindy affair with him being able to answer my threats and me having lost 4 life to Thoughtseize + Snapcaster to flash it back, and right when I stabilize with said Snapcaster at three life he topdecks a bolt to finish me off. Loss 1-2.
Round 4 was vs URG Twin. I play an early Delver which gets in nine damage before he is able to remove it, after which I Inquisition his only Threat away and then Snapcaster it back to leave him with just lands and Splinter Twin in hand and he never does anything relevant. He mulligans game two and I rip his hand apart and just let Bob grind it out for me. Win 2-0
Cut to Top-4
Semi Finals vs WUR Geist: Plays out almost exactly like our first match, with the Thoughtseize being a liability more than anything, and me not being to get anything going in two of our three games. Loss 1-2.
He ended up lossing to Affinity in the Finals, which sucks cause I had packed a lot of Affinity hate and would have loved a shot at Tarmogoyf.
Overall I really liked how the deck performed and have since found my fourth Inquisition of Kozilek so no more life loss which is nice. Molten Rain was MVP single-handedly winning me two games and helping in a couple others. Vendilion Clique continued to not impress me and just left me walking into Electrolyzes. I want to test something else in its place and so far my main consideration is Nightveil Specter. It doesn't die to Electrolyze (let alone get blown out by it like Vendilion) and generates card advantage after the scirmish of the early-game has settled.
Also, I plan on changing the sideboard to -1 Spellskite (the ? in the list above) -1 Hurkyl's Recall / +1 Anger of the Gods +1 Cruel Edict. I want some way to kill Hexproof creatures and I saw a few aggro decks around (Merfolk, Zoo) that I wouldn't mind having Anger for.
How did Lavamancer do for you?
I like the idea of the specter since so many of the creatures die to Electrolyze. The molten rain is nice, plus against Tron you can Surgical Extract the land you destroy.
Lavamancer was okay. He was mostly just a 1/1 for R that attacked a few times and then shocked my opponent either before he was going to die or to finished someone off a little quicker. Not overly impressive, but I also didn't play any aggro matchups, which is where he shines.
I'll keep the 1-of for now, but I have my eye on both him and Spellskite as possible flex spots where I might want to try new creatures. Possibly Reckless Waif for more aggro or Nezumi Graverobber as a black sudo-Scavenging Ooze. Things to think about, anyway.
Yeah, I've liked Nightveil Specter in what little testing I've done so far, and will hopfully get to test him this weekend and report back with how he does.
Lavamancer was okay. He was mostly just a 1/1 for R that attacked a few times and then shocked my opponent either before he was going to die or to finished someone off a little quicker. Not overly impressive, but I also didn't play any aggro matchups, which is where he shines.
I'll keep the 1-of for now, but I have my eye on both him and Spellskite as possible flex spots where I might want to try new creatures. Possibly Reckless Waif for more aggro or Nezumi Graverobber as a black sudo-Scavenging Ooze. Things to think about, anyway.
Yeah, I've liked Nightveil Specter in what little testing I've done so far, and will hopfully get to test him this weekend and report back with how he does.
i would suggest against cutting spellskite. The card is too good in too many matchup
I have been very unimpressed with lavamancer personally
I would look at Eudolon of Great Revel. There are so many situation he is amazing in
I'm not sure you'd want this. If you look At how the deck runs and the curve we have it would be very very dangerous to run. We would take damage on almost every single spell.
I would look at Eudolon of Great Revel. There are so many situation he is amazing in
I'm not sure you'd want this. If you look At how the deck runs and the curve we have it would be very very dangerous to run. We would take damage on almost every single spell.
We would, but against decks like storm they are taking a huge amount of damage as well. I dunno... this deck has been fun and very frustrating at the same time.
There is a PTQ here in town in 2 weeks and I'm trying to tune for it, and have been getting smoked. I'm getting really tired of having a turn 1 Delver, and not being able to flip it for 3 turns. It just doesn't feel like I can get a consistent flipped delver to stick. I am going to go back to the drawing board, and see what has worked for me and what hasn't.
I would look at Eudolon of Great Revel. There are so many situation he is amazing in
I'm not sure you'd want this. If you look At how the deck runs and the curve we have it would be very very dangerous to run. We would take damage on almost every single spell.
We would, but against decks like storm they are taking a huge amount of damage as well. I dunno... this deck has been fun and very frustrating at the same time.
There is a PTQ here in town in 2 weeks and I'm trying to tune for it, and have been getting smoked. I'm getting really tired of having a turn 1 Delver, and not being able to flip it for 3 turns. It just doesn't feel like I can get a consistent flipped delver to stick. I am going to go back to the drawing board, and see what has worked for me and what hasn't.
I have to agree with MacheteMable on this one - I don't really think Eidolon of the Great Revel is a card this deck wants. Even when it sees play in burn, it's pretty much assumed that it will do at least as much damage to its owner as it does to its opponent, but the entire rest of the burn player's deck is built to just be nothing but efficient damage spells, so Eidolon is more of a worthwhile double-edged sword for them. Think of it like Flame Rift, and you should more easily realize that it doesn't really fit what we're doing.
As far as Delver not flipping, yeah that's how it goes some times. I know I've had games where it doesn't flip for 6+ turns and lose because of it, but I've also won games where my blind Delver flipped on turn two and just stole the game. The trick is to not get discouraged when it doesn't come for free. If that is a major issue you've been facing maybe you should adjust your list to compensate. Perhaps consider running more scry cards, like Magma Jet, or some number of Reckless Waif which can often function like Delvers 5-X, especially when played turn one.
Nightveil Specter has proven to be really strong when I can get them to stick. Also proves to be pretty useful against the decks running Serum Visions. I've taken out both my cliques and my single lavamancer for 3.
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Pauper: UB Control
Standard: 5 Color Bring to Light
Modern: Grixis Control/UW Control/UWRb Control
Legacy: LED Dredge/Building MUD
Vintage: GW Hatebears/Building Doomsday
EDH: Hanna, Ship's Navigator
That actually sounds insanely solid. I love this. My only deal is the tapping thing... It's weak, but maybe that's what makes it good. It's kind of like a cheaper Shadowmage Infiltrator and probably better as well. It works in synergy with Snapcaster, makes better use of your topdecked discard spells. Is there something that would be okay to use to allow us to tap him more reliably or should we just test him as a stand-alone idea?
What do you guys think of disciple of deceit as a two of instead of the Young Pyromancer. In a deck that has mostly 1 and 2 cmc Spells its like a Tutor. Have a thoughtseize you cant or dort want to Play? Take a Lightning bolt instead. Just as am Example.
Not a good idea. This deck is primarily an Aggro deck, and a non-evasive one-power beater for two mana And no card advantage is just bad. This deck has the potential to make tricky and sometimes "fancy" plays, but primarily we should just be looking to end the game as quickly as possible via efficient threats and tempo.
Find another way to tap it without attacking, and I could see it do some work.... but late game do you want a large beater, or a 1/3 that dies to bolt and gets smoked by a Batterskull?
For other cards to help flip Delver I am going to try to use Condescend, and mabye a 1 of 2 of Magma Jet... but other than that, this deck is going to continue to struggle because it doesn't have a finisher to keep it viable with such a thin mana base that doesn't have on color fetches.
Eidolon is pretty awesome for the single fact that not only do I have to play around it, but my opponent does as well. If he swings for 2 and eats kill spell, he has done 4 damage for 2 mana. It's just efficient, and we can be building our hand more and just attacking which helps control the board more. He plays into the Death's Shadow game plan as well... The card has value, and effects the board the moment it hits.
You'd be lucky to make an impact with the Disciple like you would with the Eidolon.
If you're using the Disciple to toss unused Thoughtseize, what are you getting? Lighting Bolt? Serum Visions? The intimidation with Zombie is very relevant, and the fact that he doesn't make them discard their creature he EXILES itis so much more important than just discarding it.
You said it was too slow, but yet want to play the Disciple... I gotta say the Disciple won't make an impact at all, while Zombie, even Main Board, can and will make a huge difference the moment it hits the battlefield.
If you're using the Disciple to toss unused Thoughtseize, what are you getting? Lighting Bolt? Serum Visions? The intimidation with Zombie is very relevant, and the fact that he doesn't make them discard their creature he EXILES itis so much more important than just discarding it.
You said it was too slow, but yet want to play the Disciple... I gotta say the Disciple won't make an impact at all, while Zombie, even Main Board, can and will make a huge difference the moment it hits the battlefield.
Very good card and an idea I've already been trying. Having a couple Zombies in the board to replace Nightveil Specter against white or green decks is very strong and an unblockable 3 damage is very clearly a respectable clock.
My dear hatebearfoilhunter, i meant Other Opinions than yours, Not exactly the Same again and with yet another creature Tossed in the mix. And by the Way: the Time your Zombie Comes Down, Voice, goyf, finks and Ooze can already be in the Play. Thats My Definition of too Slow.
No need to belabor the point when it's already been made, but Disciple of Deceit is not what this deck wants. An inefficient threat with slow replacement-tutoring goes against the idea of any Delver of Secrets deck.
To touch on Lifebane Zombie again, in a deck filled with Vapor Snags and Remands, it seems like a very strong sideboard option. Additionally, to say that it is too slow to hit some creatures is potentially true, but that's making the assumption that they don't have any more in hand. Basically, if your opponent plays a Kitchen Finks or Voice of Resurgence, and then Lifebane nabs another one from their hand, it has still done its job.
@Oneshot - I know you don't like me or any of my suggestions, so it doesn't really bother me. What I find funny is that you criticize me for certain card choices, but because it costs 3 mana, you shoot it down. I guarantee if B07 suggested it, you'd think to yourself, "That's not a bad idea..." Either that or you're annoyed you didn't come up with the idea in the first place.
I dunno man, you do your thing, I'll do mine, but I can give a few examples here.
On the draw, if they turn 2 voice or goyf, turn 3 finks, and you haven't countered one then, then I can see how it would be slow and you'd have a bad day.
Imagine this though... on their turn 3, you remand their finks, one of the most played creatures in modern. They're tapped out, you drop the Zombie, and exile that Finks. You gained tempo and card advantage with the Remand. Then card advantage again with the Zombie. Say you reveal their hand and see a Thrun, that's probably one of the best cards to exile. It is one of the hardest cards to deal with in this meta unless you're running Damnation or Wrath.
I love the idea that B07 said and Vapor Snag it back to your hand, then drop him again. That's just efficient and back breaking.
How is that slow?
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I am a strong advocate of Cryptic Command, I play 3 maindeck and never looked back.
Problem with Void Snare being a sorcery is different than Serum Visions being a sorcery.
Serum Visions makes you tap in your turn and since it doesn't have direct impact on game state, you have to decide if it is worth to tap one of your lands instead of holding mana up for some answer.
The problem with Void Snare is that as a sorcery, it is less effective. For example, it cannot stop non-creature permanents that affect combat (e.g. Cranial Plating), manlands, creatures with flash or haste, effects that target creatures etc, while instant speed bounce, like Cryptic Command, solves that.
I have nothing against trying it out, but I see no good argument for it.
I want to address the flaws and get your guys thoughts.
First, I feel that the mana base does half the work for our opponent. Even playing conservatively you're probably taking 1-3 points turn 1, 5 if you fetch, shock, Thoughtseize.
Delver is not always reliable. He is great when he's flipped, but that doesn't always happen. In other decks like UWR delver he works because those decks have larger threats with evasion like Geist and Resto Angel that demand attention, are stronger and have better evasion. The creatures we are using have weaker backsides, and no evasion outside of delver when he's flipped. It really slows down the deck.
This deck is too slow. Too many of the cards don't make a large enough impact, or are sorceries. Thoughtseize is amazing, but can't answer a goyf on the board the same way Path can.
Inquisition of Kozilek, Visions, Probe, Thoughtseize, are all strong cards, but slow the deck down. Especially when compared to lightning helix and path. It often times means we are only holding mana for counter magic, and don't have the ability to immediately answer a threat when it hits the board.
I like the grixis version a lot and am looking for some faster answers and stronger creatures.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
Well I built around the legacy grixis delver list and the modern UR delver list. Playing with it a little it at times can be life hungry like you say. I have played it against a burn deck and Melira Pod with out side boarding. Both matches were tough. I am not sure what the win ratio was though.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
I ended up going to a standard FNM that weekend, but I did go to a Modern Win-a-'goyf tournament yesterday, so I can give some feedback on how that went.
The list I ran was the same one as above except -1 Inquisition of Kozilek +1 Thoughtseize because I couldn't find my fourth Inquisition.
Round 1 was vs RG Tron. Game one he had trouble sticking anything relevant through Remands even after assembling turn three tron, and an Insectile Aberration got there. Game two we both had to mulligan but I abused his mana base with Molten Rain and Snapcaster to buy it back, and Dark Confidant helped close it out. Win 2-0
Round 2 was vs UR Twin. Game one he got stuck on three lands and after using Inquisition to see he had no way to stop Molten Rain I brought him down to a sole Island before he conceded to Snapcaster beats. Game two he tried to play the tempo game and we traded resources for a while but then I got a flipped Delver to stick and Confidant provided the answers to stop him from coming back. Win 2-0
Round 3 was vs WUR Geist. Game one was a slug-fest with me playing dorks and him blowing them up. Eventually he found one of his Geist of Saint Trafts and I was dead in a few short turns. Game two I came out fast and followed an early Delver with Molten Rain and he was never really even in the game. Game three was another grindy affair with him being able to answer my threats and me having lost 4 life to Thoughtseize + Snapcaster to flash it back, and right when I stabilize with said Snapcaster at three life he topdecks a bolt to finish me off. Loss 1-2.
Round 4 was vs URG Twin. I play an early Delver which gets in nine damage before he is able to remove it, after which I Inquisition his only Threat away and then Snapcaster it back to leave him with just lands and Splinter Twin in hand and he never does anything relevant. He mulligans game two and I rip his hand apart and just let Bob grind it out for me. Win 2-0
Cut to Top-4
Semi Finals vs WUR Geist: Plays out almost exactly like our first match, with the Thoughtseize being a liability more than anything, and me not being to get anything going in two of our three games. Loss 1-2.
He ended up lossing to Affinity in the Finals, which sucks cause I had packed a lot of Affinity hate and would have loved a shot at Tarmogoyf.
Overall I really liked how the deck performed and have since found my fourth Inquisition of Kozilek so no more life loss which is nice. Molten Rain was MVP single-handedly winning me two games and helping in a couple others. Vendilion Clique continued to not impress me and just left me walking into Electrolyzes. I want to test something else in its place and so far my main consideration is Nightveil Specter. It doesn't die to Electrolyze (let alone get blown out by it like Vendilion) and generates card advantage after the scirmish of the early-game has settled.
Also, I plan on changing the sideboard to -1 Spellskite (the ? in the list above) -1 Hurkyl's Recall / +1 Anger of the Gods +1 Cruel Edict. I want some way to kill Hexproof creatures and I saw a few aggro decks around (Merfolk, Zoo) that I wouldn't mind having Anger for.
How did Lavamancer do for you?
I like the idea of the specter since so many of the creatures die to Electrolyze. The molten rain is nice, plus against Tron you can Surgical Extract the land you destroy.
I'll keep the 1-of for now, but I have my eye on both him and Spellskite as possible flex spots where I might want to try new creatures. Possibly Reckless Waif for more aggro or Nezumi Graverobber as a black sudo-Scavenging Ooze. Things to think about, anyway.
Yeah, I've liked Nightveil Specter in what little testing I've done so far, and will hopfully get to test him this weekend and report back with how he does.
I have been very unimpressed with lavamancer personally
We would, but against decks like storm they are taking a huge amount of damage as well. I dunno... this deck has been fun and very frustrating at the same time.
There is a PTQ here in town in 2 weeks and I'm trying to tune for it, and have been getting smoked. I'm getting really tired of having a turn 1 Delver, and not being able to flip it for 3 turns. It just doesn't feel like I can get a consistent flipped delver to stick. I am going to go back to the drawing board, and see what has worked for me and what hasn't.
I have to agree with MacheteMable on this one - I don't really think Eidolon of the Great Revel is a card this deck wants. Even when it sees play in burn, it's pretty much assumed that it will do at least as much damage to its owner as it does to its opponent, but the entire rest of the burn player's deck is built to just be nothing but efficient damage spells, so Eidolon is more of a worthwhile double-edged sword for them. Think of it like Flame Rift, and you should more easily realize that it doesn't really fit what we're doing.
As far as Delver not flipping, yeah that's how it goes some times. I know I've had games where it doesn't flip for 6+ turns and lose because of it, but I've also won games where my blind Delver flipped on turn two and just stole the game. The trick is to not get discouraged when it doesn't come for free. If that is a major issue you've been facing maybe you should adjust your list to compensate. Perhaps consider running more scry cards, like Magma Jet, or some number of Reckless Waif which can often function like Delvers 5-X, especially when played turn one.
Pauper: UB Control
Standard: 5 Color Bring to Light
Modern: Grixis Control/UW Control/UWRb Control
Legacy: LED Dredge/Building MUD
Vintage: GW Hatebears/Building Doomsday
EDH: Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Add me on MTGO: Faiiith
Not a good idea. This deck is primarily an Aggro deck, and a non-evasive one-power beater for two mana And no card advantage is just bad. This deck has the potential to make tricky and sometimes "fancy" plays, but primarily we should just be looking to end the game as quickly as possible via efficient threats and tempo.
For other cards to help flip Delver I am going to try to use Condescend, and mabye a 1 of 2 of Magma Jet... but other than that, this deck is going to continue to struggle because it doesn't have a finisher to keep it viable with such a thin mana base that doesn't have on color fetches.
Eidolon is pretty awesome for the single fact that not only do I have to play around it, but my opponent does as well. If he swings for 2 and eats kill spell, he has done 4 damage for 2 mana. It's just efficient, and we can be building our hand more and just attacking which helps control the board more. He plays into the Death's Shadow game plan as well... The card has value, and effects the board the moment it hits.
You'd be lucky to make an impact with the Disciple like you would with the Eidolon.
Relevant targets Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Kitchen Finks, Restroation Angel, Thrun, the Last Troll, Voice of Resurgence.... and rembember, it exiles.
If you're using the Disciple to toss unused Thoughtseize, what are you getting? Lighting Bolt? Serum Visions? The intimidation with Zombie is very relevant, and the fact that he doesn't make them discard their creature he EXILES itis so much more important than just discarding it.
You said it was too slow, but yet want to play the Disciple... I gotta say the Disciple won't make an impact at all, while Zombie, even Main Board, can and will make a huge difference the moment it hits the battlefield.
Very good card and an idea I've already been trying. Having a couple Zombies in the board to replace Nightveil Specter against white or green decks is very strong and an unblockable 3 damage is very clearly a respectable clock.
No need to belabor the point when it's already been made, but Disciple of Deceit is not what this deck wants. An inefficient threat with slow replacement-tutoring goes against the idea of any Delver of Secrets deck.
To touch on Lifebane Zombie again, in a deck filled with Vapor Snags and Remands, it seems like a very strong sideboard option. Additionally, to say that it is too slow to hit some creatures is potentially true, but that's making the assumption that they don't have any more in hand. Basically, if your opponent plays a Kitchen Finks or Voice of Resurgence, and then Lifebane nabs another one from their hand, it has still done its job.
@Oneshot - I know you don't like me or any of my suggestions, so it doesn't really bother me. What I find funny is that you criticize me for certain card choices, but because it costs 3 mana, you shoot it down. I guarantee if B07 suggested it, you'd think to yourself, "That's not a bad idea..." Either that or you're annoyed you didn't come up with the idea in the first place.
I dunno man, you do your thing, I'll do mine, but I can give a few examples here.
On the draw, if they turn 2 voice or goyf, turn 3 finks, and you haven't countered one then, then I can see how it would be slow and you'd have a bad day.
Imagine this though... on their turn 3, you remand their finks, one of the most played creatures in modern. They're tapped out, you drop the Zombie, and exile that Finks. You gained tempo and card advantage with the Remand. Then card advantage again with the Zombie. Say you reveal their hand and see a Thrun, that's probably one of the best cards to exile. It is one of the hardest cards to deal with in this meta unless you're running Damnation or Wrath.
I love the idea that B07 said and Vapor Snag it back to your hand, then drop him again. That's just efficient and back breaking.
How is that slow?