KCI is a card u want every single game on board, it lets you sac Ichor Wellsprings - best eggs ever, make a lot of mana to play around Remand or Mana Leak. There are many match ups where You want even more than 1 in opening hand, like heavy control matches. Control players have to counter it, so less counters will catch Reward.
So I recently started playing eggs and took this deck as my inspiration.
I have to say I am a HUGE fan of this deck. I just love it to bits and have already purchased all the pieces i need for my deck. If anyone wants I can post my decklist here (If you can tell me how to!) so that you can see it.
I don't like Noxious Revival, becouse u have so many card draw spells, that u will find 1 of 8 Reward effects. play only 1 win con, not 3 - it is a waste of slots. More cards, which don't work with consistensy - more chances to fizzle during combo, and much more dead draws during set up.
And Glacial Fortress is bad - if u really want duals (for me Basic lands are much better becouse of Ghost Quarter) try Adarkar Wastes
In sideboard I think u should play more bounce spells - 4 Echoing Truth is good number. And Swan Song is much better than Silence - easier to cast and can stop other combo decks more, than just Silece.
I wrote in this topic about my decklist - it was tested a lot, I'm sure it will be more consistent than others.
While youre correct that you -are- likely to draw a reward effect and that multiple wincons mean less relevant card draws (Not.. really, its one card) you do also have to think about time. Normal egg combo with pyrite spellbomb can take 10-20mins to go off and win, assuming no opponent scoop and depending on how much theyve hurt themselves. My decks main wincon is the Banefire, its a much faster option and I frequently end games in 7minutes, thats including my opponents turns. I keep pyrite because its mainboard scooze hate or other types of hate which -can- be relevant, or again, alternate wincon if they somehow stop the Banefire.
Also, research/development helps with the pre-board games which is probably the hardest part of the deck. You dont have leyline or echoing or erase etc. It lets you fetch those to protect yourself. Alternatively fetch emrakul if they have Runed Halo naming your wincon or something silly like that.
I like having more options than just "take 20minutes draw deck ping you infinitely" which your list goes really hard on.
Time is not a problem. On tournament u just have to draw all library and show how u loop. Pyrite Spellbomb will always be the best win con becouse this is an artifact and can DRAW A CARD! Research//Develompent is just useless - before side it is really rare that opponent has anything that can stop eggs complitely. You can play around Thalia, Relic, Scavenging Ooze and so on. For me the most important thing is to have good set up in first three turns. Drawing cards like extra win cons, Revival, Defense Grid instead of Sreum Visions, Sleight of Hand and Gitaxian Probe can ruin your set up.
Hi, I'm an old-time Eggs player and wanted to try putting some life back to this deck, since it's been one year now from the banning of Second Sunrise.
No love for Codex Shredder ? With a KCI in your deck, it becomes an additional win-con and acts like a conjurer's bauble (except clunky). Goes infinite with a Reward and 9 Mana+
I think running 9 1mana non-artifact cantrips will not work out as week for us as it did for Second Sunrises deck because we need a bit more mana on the combo turn. This problem clashes with a KCI deck in which we have the mana, but we need those slots for artifacts...
Also, I'm currently trying Temble of Enlightenment in the deck (like Ad Nauseam players are doing), but maybe that's a bad idea. Mid-combo, this acts with a GQ like a Sleight of Hand.
Clutch of the Undercity is sooo weak that I don't know how u can't see it? U have only 4 fetch lands and 1 UB shock for black in transmutate cost. So u have to draw 3 lands on turn 3 and 1 of them have to be 1 of 5. And we are talking about 17 lands version (I know u can sac Chromatic star/Sphere to gain B mana, but we never want to sac eggs before combo turn). And turn 3 should ba a set up, when u play more eggs/cantrips, not tutor for Reward.
1 more thing - we want to play 7-8 Sunrise effects. The best effect is Reward for 4 mana, so we play it as a 4 off. But what we should play as 5-8 slots? Open the Vaults costs 6 mana, Clutch + Reward (becosue we are talking about comboing, not set up) cost 3+4 mana including much harder mana costs.
KCI + Ichor Wellspring is the best engine in eggs right now, just play some with them as 4 offs and don't write, that Elsewhere Flask is better than Ichor With 3-4 Open the Vaults in deck we have to play more mana ramp than only Reshape. And Reshape is only a ritual, from UU it makes only 3 mana, so with every landdrop made we still have to have 2 reshapes to cast Open - much better is to have KCI as a 4 off to cast it on turn 4 and make huge amount of mana the same turn. I was writing in this primer about advantages of having 4 copies of KCI in maindeck, just read it, than test and ascertain, that I was right.
I think Clutch could be better if it had transmutate for 1UU, without black mana. We have to wait for printing new Faith Rewards Now we only have original Reward and Open, other options are weaker.
Nowdays eggs are just worse than Storm, there aren't any arguments to run artifact combo over UR ritual. Storm needs only 2 lands to start, eggs needs at least 3 (sometimes Bloom from suspend can help, but this is not a major plan). Post side storm can win without graveyard, eggs not.
Nowdays eggs are just worse than Storm, there aren't any arguments to run artifact combo over UR ritual. Storm needs only 2 lands to start, eggs needs at least 3 (sometimes Bloom from suspend can help, but this is not a major plan). Post side storm can win without graveyard, eggs not.
People in the Storm forum seem to be in disagreement with this, their engine is susceptible to bolt and/or abrupt decay. Rituals after PiF are bad (needing 2+ extra mana,etc).
This week I will be gold fishing a list with this mana base ;
I feel like the Temples help because they offer almost the same advantage than Sleight of Hand but for no slots in the deck.
I have considered Codex Shredder for the reasons you mention, but it seems unnecessary. The milling effect does basically nothing besides being an alternate win condition and the Regrowth effect is so expensive. Pyrite Spellbomb is much more useful and I don't need two wincons in maindeck so da bomb is the winner here.
The milling « could » help with an Open...I know that sounds janky, but milling a Bloom when you're desperate is great. Also, it makes somewhat for a 5th Reward because with 9 mana+ and a reward in the graveyard, you win. It also shortcuts the time required for the combo turn.
Finally, why did people stop trying Noxious Revival ? The lifeless hurts, but it's still better to Revival a Reward (and missing a draw) than Opening and not getting your lands back. It is very hard to combo off with 2x Open the Vaults, you need a couple of Blooms / or KCI to do that.
Sure, Open the Vaults has some drawbacks compared to Faith's Reward - it doesn't return GQ + lands and sometimes will return something your opponent, but still 4WW > 4WUB. Note also, that Open gives us unique ability to cycle eggs BEFORE combo turn! Extremly useful, when we want to play for example Reshape for 0 on turn 3 or sac some eggs to make blue mana for Serum Visions, or just to draw more lands. Open makes a lot of match ups much easier like Jund match up was 55/45 for us, but with Open in deck it is 65/35 to us. Returning discarded eggs/KCI/Blooms! is huge. In every single aspect OtV is much much better than Clunch, why u so hard want to play a worse card?
Noxious Revival is weak becouse of two reasons:
1. Drawing Revival without any Faith's Reward/Open the Vaults is very sad.
2. Even if we played sunrise effect we normally want to put it on bottom with Conjurer's Bauble and than shuffle library. Better topdecks - better chances not to fizzle in combo turn.
Shattered Perception can be nice as a 1 off, during combo we draw a lot fo lands, extra KCI and Blooms, so changing it to new potentially useful cards can be great, worth testing.
Temples in eggs are very bad - we want as many lands as possible from first to 4th turn, we always have something to cast, taplands are bad.
Other dubious considerations include Faithless Looting, Shattered Perception and Mindless Automaton. One card I find a tiny bit more interesting is Artificer's Intuition. It can discard blooms, citadels and KCI:s. Maybe it could work in an Eggs deck that's built more around it? Just a thought. Smile
Riddlesmith is probably better at discarding things than because it doesn't cost mana really. (It does die however).
I also don't own any Mox Opals and don't play on buying them. They're probably good though, the new legend rule helps us.
1. Drawing Revival without any Faith's Reward/Open the Vaults is very sad.
Not having a Reward / Open is also very bad, and Revival is potentially better than a cantrip against discard. Sleight of Hand is probably better after all.
Temples in eggs are very bad - we want as many lands as possible from first to 4th turn, we always have something to cast, taplands are bad.
In my experience, sometimes we are just waiting for a bloom to unsuspend. This deck can hardly justify trying to go off before turn 4. So, if you have a couple of lands in your opener, it won't make a difference. If Temple is the only land in your hand, now it's much slower. But then again, a one land hand without a fetch or Ghost Quarter is probably bad already. A 2 land hand, which is a normal hand, is okay with this. You go turn one artifact, turn 2 artifact and scry land, turn three 2 mana available and you can cast your deck (except KCI).
I understand why tap lands are bad in general, but if Ad Nauseam decks can play it with 8 can trips, pentad prism, phyrexian unlike, etc. why couldn't we ? Plus we are recurring it.
Storm would never use something like it because they actually need the speed and cantrips. We're looking to save spots in the deck. (And taking damage from Hallowed Fountain or Adarkar Wastes is bad too).
In my testing, the speed difference isn't that bad.
Ad Nausem is playing temples becouse it has to play only cantrips. Taplands are bad when u want play eggs and cantrips in first 3 turns. Temples are probably fine when u have 3 or 4 lands in hand, but when u have 2 and want to play Ichor Wellspring on turn 2? Or u want to play fourth land to cast KCI on turn 4? That risk is not worth that scry 1. Basic land will be better. With Chromatic Stars, Spheres, Blooms, GQ and Mox Opals we don't have any ptoblems with colored mana.
Sleight of Hand is better than Noxious Revival becouse it can find land, extra eggs, KCI and so on. More elastic cards are better than the narrow ones, which will works only in special circumstances.
And don't play creatures in maindeck in eggs. One of the reasons why eggs can be competitive is fact that in game 1 opponent will often have complitely useless creature removal in hand. With so many blank cards in opponent's deck we win most of first games. The real battle begins after side, when most of decks can side in 7+ cards to stop us. Some of them (Ancient Grudge, Negate, Cannonist) are less scary, but some (Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, sometimes Relic, Leyline of the Void) will just shut down ur gameplan. Becouse of problems post side eggs are worse than Storm or Ad Nauseam.
Conley Woods is 5-0 with this at GP Minneapolis. He is running Banefire as his win-con.
I saw that. Liked the Codex Shredder too. Banefire certainly isn't bad, it has some speed merits to it but it's not as good mid combo. I would be interested in seeing his list.
Conley Woods is 5-0 with this at GP Minneapolis. He is running Banefire as his win-con.
I saw that. Liked the Codex Shredder too. Banefire certainly isn't bad, it has some speed merits to it but it's not as good mid combo. I would be interested in seeing his list.
I have to say I am a HUGE fan of this deck. I just love it to bits and have already purchased all the pieces i need for my deck. If anyone wants I can post my decklist here (If you can tell me how to!) so that you can see it.
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Darksteel Citadel
7 Island
1 Plains
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
Faiths Effects:
4 Faith's Reward
4 Open the Vaults
2 Noxious Revival
Eggs/Mana:
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Chromatic Star
3 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Ichor Wellspring
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Reshape
1 Defense Grid
1 Research // Development
2 Serum Visions
Wincon:
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Banefire
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Silence
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Erase
Figured out how to post decklists.
This is what I am working with, I have consistently gone off on turn 4 and have gotten a few turn 3 combo's as well!
And Glacial Fortress is bad - if u really want duals (for me Basic lands are much better becouse of Ghost Quarter) try Adarkar Wastes
In sideboard I think u should play more bounce spells - 4 Echoing Truth is good number. And Swan Song is much better than Silence - easier to cast and can stop other combo decks more, than just Silece.
I wrote in this topic about my decklist - it was tested a lot, I'm sure it will be more consistent than others.
Also, research/development helps with the pre-board games which is probably the hardest part of the deck. You dont have leyline or echoing or erase etc. It lets you fetch those to protect yourself. Alternatively fetch emrakul if they have Runed Halo naming your wincon or something silly like that.
I like having more options than just "take 20minutes draw deck ping you infinitely" which your list goes really hard on.
No love for Codex Shredder ? With a KCI in your deck, it becomes an additional win-con and acts like a conjurer's bauble (except clunky). Goes infinite with a Reward and 9 Mana+
I think running 9 1mana non-artifact cantrips will not work out as week for us as it did for Second Sunrises deck because we need a bit more mana on the combo turn. This problem clashes with a KCI deck in which we have the mana, but we need those slots for artifacts...
Also, I'm currently trying Temble of Enlightenment in the deck (like Ad Nauseam players are doing), but maybe that's a bad idea. Mid-combo, this acts with a GQ like a Sleight of Hand.
1 more thing - we want to play 7-8 Sunrise effects. The best effect is Reward for 4 mana, so we play it as a 4 off. But what we should play as 5-8 slots? Open the Vaults costs 6 mana, Clutch + Reward (becosue we are talking about comboing, not set up) cost 3+4 mana including much harder mana costs.
KCI + Ichor Wellspring is the best engine in eggs right now, just play some with them as 4 offs and don't write, that Elsewhere Flask is better than Ichor With 3-4 Open the Vaults in deck we have to play more mana ramp than only Reshape. And Reshape is only a ritual, from UU it makes only 3 mana, so with every landdrop made we still have to have 2 reshapes to cast Open - much better is to have KCI as a 4 off to cast it on turn 4 and make huge amount of mana the same turn. I was writing in this primer about advantages of having 4 copies of KCI in maindeck, just read it, than test and ascertain, that I was right.
Nowdays eggs are just worse than Storm, there aren't any arguments to run artifact combo over UR ritual. Storm needs only 2 lands to start, eggs needs at least 3 (sometimes Bloom from suspend can help, but this is not a major plan). Post side storm can win without graveyard, eggs not.
People in the Storm forum seem to be in disagreement with this, their engine is susceptible to bolt and/or abrupt decay. Rituals after PiF are bad (needing 2+ extra mana,etc).
This week I will be gold fishing a list with this mana base ;
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Plains
6 Island
2 Temple of Enlightenment
I feel like the Temples help because they offer almost the same advantage than Sleight of Hand but for no slots in the deck.
The milling « could » help with an Open...I know that sounds janky, but milling a Bloom when you're desperate is great. Also, it makes somewhat for a 5th Reward because with 9 mana+ and a reward in the graveyard, you win. It also shortcuts the time required for the combo turn.
Finally, why did people stop trying Noxious Revival ? The lifeless hurts, but it's still better to Revival a Reward (and missing a draw) than Opening and not getting your lands back. It is very hard to combo off with 2x Open the Vaults, you need a couple of Blooms / or KCI to do that.
Noxious Revival is weak becouse of two reasons:
1. Drawing Revival without any Faith's Reward/Open the Vaults is very sad.
2. Even if we played sunrise effect we normally want to put it on bottom with Conjurer's Bauble and than shuffle library. Better topdecks - better chances not to fizzle in combo turn.
Shattered Perception can be nice as a 1 off, during combo we draw a lot fo lands, extra KCI and Blooms, so changing it to new potentially useful cards can be great, worth testing.
Temples in eggs are very bad - we want as many lands as possible from first to 4th turn, we always have something to cast, taplands are bad.
Riddlesmith is probably better at discarding things than because it doesn't cost mana really. (It does die however).
I also don't own any Mox Opals and don't play on buying them. They're probably good though, the new legend rule helps us.
Not having a Reward / Open is also very bad, and Revival is potentially better than a cantrip against discard. Sleight of Hand is probably better after all.
In my experience, sometimes we are just waiting for a bloom to unsuspend. This deck can hardly justify trying to go off before turn 4. So, if you have a couple of lands in your opener, it won't make a difference. If Temple is the only land in your hand, now it's much slower. But then again, a one land hand without a fetch or Ghost Quarter is probably bad already. A 2 land hand, which is a normal hand, is okay with this. You go turn one artifact, turn 2 artifact and scry land, turn three 2 mana available and you can cast your deck (except KCI).
I understand why tap lands are bad in general, but if Ad Nauseam decks can play it with 8 can trips, pentad prism, phyrexian unlike, etc. why couldn't we ? Plus we are recurring it.
Storm would never use something like it because they actually need the speed and cantrips. We're looking to save spots in the deck. (And taking damage from Hallowed Fountain or Adarkar Wastes is bad too).
In my testing, the speed difference isn't that bad.
Sleight of Hand is better than Noxious Revival becouse it can find land, extra eggs, KCI and so on. More elastic cards are better than the narrow ones, which will works only in special circumstances.
And don't play creatures in maindeck in eggs. One of the reasons why eggs can be competitive is fact that in game 1 opponent will often have complitely useless creature removal in hand. With so many blank cards in opponent's deck we win most of first games. The real battle begins after side, when most of decks can side in 7+ cards to stop us. Some of them (Ancient Grudge, Negate, Cannonist) are less scary, but some (Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, sometimes Relic, Leyline of the Void) will just shut down ur gameplan. Becouse of problems post side eggs are worse than Storm or Ad Nauseam.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I saw that. Liked the Codex Shredder too. Banefire certainly isn't bad, it has some speed merits to it but it's not as good mid combo. I would be interested in seeing his list.
I am sure that we will.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Was that game 1 or 2?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.