So I typically lurk on the elves forums as that's what I like to play in modern. I dabble in other lists, but one thing I enjoy about elves is the whole package. I feel like I have access to a answer for almost every deck, some stronger than others but pretty much I never feel absolutely dead in the water. I started thinking after chiming in on the werewolf forums of what the tribe lacks and what it takes to be competitive, so I figured I'd make a list of things that I consider good development over the years to building a successful tribe...
1. Card advantage: decks need a way to generate some type of advantage over a specific time frame. I'm thinking silvergill adept, elvish visonary, mogg warmarshal, duskwatch recruiter, dwynen's elite, mentor of the meek, spellstutter sprite etc. I think this is pretty integral to a tribe's success as tribes need a way of going long if forced to. How does the tribe generate CA outside of combat and forcing bad blocks or relying on spells? Creature based card advantage is pretty crucial.
2. Lords: the glue that holds the pack together and starts to turn on aggressive modes for creature based decks. lord of atlantis, scion of oona, elvish archdruid , immerwolf, drogskull captain, cemetary reaper, thalia's lieutenant, any ally, any sliver, etc. Lords play up the aggro theme and begin to bring synergy and stratgy to the deck. Some tribes have more than 1 they run(merfolk) and others have lords that aren't just a 2-3 drop with a static combat boost stapled on(ezuri). These are the guys that take me from a pile of creatures to a clock I can close out the game. This is a good introduction into my 3rd point...
3. The unique mechanic of your tribe: this is where I feel like a deck earns its identity. Elves go wide fast and produce lots of mana (heritage Druid), goblins have reach in the late game(goblin grenade), faries are tempo based (spellstutter and mistbind clique), slivers each add a unique spell like bonus to each creature, zombies interact heavily with the graveyard (gravecrawler or diregraf colossus), lords grant unique effects that make your team more potent such as knights with knight exemplar.
Those are the 3 things that make a deck feel tribal to me. They feel synergistic, and each card feels like a payoff. What I find each tribe lacks are generic answers. The nature of tribal decks forces them into specific color sets and locks out efficient answers which is a huge hurdle for some tribes over others.
For example, a werewolf deck that's just RG lacks Counterspells and discard to deal with combo. Yeah green lets them blow up enchantments,both colors allow you to "fight", red gives you reach and artifact destruction. But what about something like adnauseum, storm, or pox? How can these slower decks compete vs an open meta? For example, if I go wide I pay the price to pyroclasm or a similar mini wrath effect, if I go tall I fall flat to single target removal, if I go disruptive I never hit that critical level of cards to leverage my tribe's synergy cards.
The hurdle to me is generating tribal cards that shore up the weakness and maintain the game plan without creating a card that just slots into a good stuff deck. I for one would like to see more ETB checks like dynen's elite that perform something desirable for the tribe if you sequence spells a specific way or something like that. thalia's lieutenant or champion of the parish are another example. It's redundant but there's consistency there. There's a payoff that's strong and desirable so you can focus other creatures as disruptive pieces sin collector, thalia, guardian of thraben, reflector mage for example. As an elves player I loath being on the wrong end of whipflare from affinity but I appreciate its power and the hoops they go through for it (deck building restrictions although I feels a little too easy to me). I mean I have eyeblight massacre and a few small tweaks and double black isn't hard for me to hit...I could be doing the same thing on T3 reliably if I set my mind to it. I like cards like that, because it's synergy and answers something the deck may be weak against. But you run the risk of bending too much and you may never hit the payoff to its full extent. spellstutter sorite feels like good design to me, you're rewarded greatly for committing to the board but you want to hold up mana. It's a clean answer to a huge swath of problematic cards and scales well.
I'm not looking to replace spells like thoughtsieze or pyroclasm, I'm looking for ideas on what we could suggest as a community for what types of effects we think could push some of these underrepresented tribes into t3/developing status? What spells or creatures would you feel could benefit the format. How far can we push an ETB has requires 1 or more of a creature.
I find myself often struggling with the same issue. As a modern Slivers and Elves player, really the only spells I have been able to locate to make my tribes better are Collected Company, AEther Vial, and Chord of Calling all of which simply get you to your guys and dont directly affect the opponent or their board state.
CA under any form is good. A combo win is good. A strong plan of evasion is good.
Also the more alternate plans you have (and the stronger each are), the more chances you have to fight the whole format : for example, Elves can now have reach with Shaman, which basically makes the deck viable, otherwise it would remain in the abyss right now, with just Elite and Coco to push it somewhere in the (top ?) Tier 3.
When you say some decks miss answers, it's not quite the problem imo. They rather lack core cards that are not affected by those spells that wreck tribal decks.
Affinity has 8 creature-lands, Ravager and Champion. 3 ways to ignore wrath effects and removal spells overall. It's why it's the best tribal deck in the format.
Merfolk has the benefit to play in the color of counterspells, and have an inherent build that can lightly fight its "tribal" weaknesses.
You may look for a different approach when responding to any sort of hate, but the true answer is patience imo : when a new set is released, hope for new staples ! Wait for a (un)ban and the format may shift in favor of your tribe !
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
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1. Card advantage: decks need a way to generate some type of advantage over a specific time frame. I'm thinking silvergill adept, elvish visonary, mogg warmarshal, duskwatch recruiter, dwynen's elite, mentor of the meek, spellstutter sprite etc. I think this is pretty integral to a tribe's success as tribes need a way of going long if forced to. How does the tribe generate CA outside of combat and forcing bad blocks or relying on spells? Creature based card advantage is pretty crucial.
2. Lords: the glue that holds the pack together and starts to turn on aggressive modes for creature based decks. lord of atlantis, scion of oona, elvish archdruid , immerwolf, drogskull captain, cemetary reaper, thalia's lieutenant, any ally, any sliver, etc. Lords play up the aggro theme and begin to bring synergy and stratgy to the deck. Some tribes have more than 1 they run(merfolk) and others have lords that aren't just a 2-3 drop with a static combat boost stapled on(ezuri). These are the guys that take me from a pile of creatures to a clock I can close out the game. This is a good introduction into my 3rd point...
3. The unique mechanic of your tribe: this is where I feel like a deck earns its identity. Elves go wide fast and produce lots of mana (heritage Druid), goblins have reach in the late game(goblin grenade), faries are tempo based (spellstutter and mistbind clique), slivers each add a unique spell like bonus to each creature, zombies interact heavily with the graveyard (gravecrawler or diregraf colossus), lords grant unique effects that make your team more potent such as knights with knight exemplar.
Those are the 3 things that make a deck feel tribal to me. They feel synergistic, and each card feels like a payoff. What I find each tribe lacks are generic answers. The nature of tribal decks forces them into specific color sets and locks out efficient answers which is a huge hurdle for some tribes over others.
For example, a werewolf deck that's just RG lacks Counterspells and discard to deal with combo. Yeah green lets them blow up enchantments,both colors allow you to "fight", red gives you reach and artifact destruction. But what about something like adnauseum, storm, or pox? How can these slower decks compete vs an open meta? For example, if I go wide I pay the price to pyroclasm or a similar mini wrath effect, if I go tall I fall flat to single target removal, if I go disruptive I never hit that critical level of cards to leverage my tribe's synergy cards.
The hurdle to me is generating tribal cards that shore up the weakness and maintain the game plan without creating a card that just slots into a good stuff deck. I for one would like to see more ETB checks like dynen's elite that perform something desirable for the tribe if you sequence spells a specific way or something like that. thalia's lieutenant or champion of the parish are another example. It's redundant but there's consistency there. There's a payoff that's strong and desirable so you can focus other creatures as disruptive pieces sin collector, thalia, guardian of thraben, reflector mage for example. As an elves player I loath being on the wrong end of whipflare from affinity but I appreciate its power and the hoops they go through for it (deck building restrictions although I feels a little too easy to me). I mean I have eyeblight massacre and a few small tweaks and double black isn't hard for me to hit...I could be doing the same thing on T3 reliably if I set my mind to it. I like cards like that, because it's synergy and answers something the deck may be weak against. But you run the risk of bending too much and you may never hit the payoff to its full extent. spellstutter sorite feels like good design to me, you're rewarded greatly for committing to the board but you want to hold up mana. It's a clean answer to a huge swath of problematic cards and scales well.
I'm not looking to replace spells like thoughtsieze or pyroclasm, I'm looking for ideas on what we could suggest as a community for what types of effects we think could push some of these underrepresented tribes into t3/developing status? What spells or creatures would you feel could benefit the format. How far can we push an ETB has requires 1 or more of a creature.
WUBRGCoco/Vial Slivers
WUBRGSlivers of the Void
Pioneer
WUBRGCoco Slivers
Legacy
WUBRGAll in Slivers
Also the more alternate plans you have (and the stronger each are), the more chances you have to fight the whole format : for example, Elves can now have reach with Shaman, which basically makes the deck viable, otherwise it would remain in the abyss right now, with just Elite and Coco to push it somewhere in the (top ?) Tier 3.
When you say some decks miss answers, it's not quite the problem imo. They rather lack core cards that are not affected by those spells that wreck tribal decks.
Affinity has 8 creature-lands, Ravager and Champion. 3 ways to ignore wrath effects and removal spells overall. It's why it's the best tribal deck in the format.
Merfolk has the benefit to play in the color of counterspells, and have an inherent build that can lightly fight its "tribal" weaknesses.
You may look for a different approach when responding to any sort of hate, but the true answer is patience imo : when a new set is released, hope for new staples ! Wait for a (un)ban and the format may shift in favor of your tribe !