I still don't understand why Eggs isn't up in the "Proven" section. The deck won the pro-tour and has multiple PTQ and MTGO tournament top 8's / victories.
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MTGO Decks:
Pauper: U Delver Fae UR Nivix Fiend UWB Esper Sage
GInfect RIP UFissure Post RIP URIzzet Post RIP UBRThe Perfect Pauper Storm RIP
I would like to ask, is the KCI version no longer better? I see no mention of KCI in the recent few pages. Sorry I'm too lazy to click back more pages to check.
The cantrip version is the safer choice. It has more proven results.
I still don't understand why Eggs isn't up in the "Proven" section. The deck won the pro-tour and has multiple PTQ and MTGO tournament top 8's / victories.
Patience. The deck has shown itself. Soon, people will gather, and the great breakfast will be upon us.
Decks in the proven section are added when a deck does well repeatedly at large tournaments. MTGO and smaller tournaments aren't really considered. The problem is that people just aren't playing it.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
Ok, I have spent more time than I care to mention sifting through EVERYTHING I can find on "Eggs" and to the people who have experience with this deck I have a few questions:
Has anyone ever tested Perilous Research in conjunction with more Ichor Wellspring? This seems a hell of a lot better than just running Sleight of Hand. And it seems even more explosive in versions running KCI.
Now from what I can see KCI is not favored, but ... for some reason I can't figure out why, it seems like the Etherium Sculptor effect that doesn't die to most removal. When comboing off you are almost always assurred victory whether you are running the optional Banefire/Bitter Ordeal/Grapeshot or Lab Man. After legitimately looking through 30+ pages of this thread I have heard it is slower but ... is this really the case or is it largely unneeded? I have played combo for years and always prefered slow consistency VS speed, is this the argument with KCI?
Ok, I have spent more time than I care to mention sifting through EVERYTHING I can find on "Eggs" and to the people who have experience with this deck I have a few questions:
Has anyone ever tested Perilous Research in conjunction with more Ichor Wellspring? This seems a hell of a lot better than just running Sleight of Hand. And it seems even more explosive in versions running KCI.
Now from what I can see KCI is not favored, but ... for some reason I can't figure out why, it seems like the Etherium Sculptor effect that doesn't die to most removal. When comboing off you are almost always assurred victory whether you are running the optional Banefire/Bitter Ordeal/Grapeshot or Lab Man. After legitimately looking through 30+ pages of this thread I have heard it is slower but ... is this really the case or is it largely unneeded? I have played combo for years and always prefered slow consistency VS speed, is this the argument with KCI?
I have not tested Perilous Research with Ichor Wellspring, however I expect it is likely not very good, due to the mana investment required to re-use it mid-combo. KCI is used because it not only helps you create mana, it gives you a consistent sacrifice outlet every Sunrise/Reward for your Ichors. With Perilous Research, you'd have to count on drawing into them, and would have to invest mana to cast them - something often you can't spare.
Regarding using Banefire, Bitter Ordeal, Laboratory Maniac - I have no problem running ONE of these in the sideboard, as a backup, I think Laboratory Maniac is the best choice, as it is not as dependant on infinite (or arbitrarily large) recursion loops in order to win, something which could be an issue if you were to be Slaughter Games'd for Conjurers Bauble (which as I've stated is the correct choice for the 1st SG to be resolved against Eggs)
Regarding KCI vs Cantrips. I agree KCI is much more consistent, and nearly fizzle-proof... however, it is slower and the cantrip version is almost as strong once you get going, you just need to be a little more judicious with your Reshapes.
I prefer the cantrip version for a couple reasons. They are so much better earlier in the game, and many times I've started a 7 card hand that is strong, but without a Lotus Bloom, then cantripped into a Lotus Bloom on turn 1 (or even turn 2). Having those additional cantrips help smooth out your Lotus Bloom starts and land drops, which can be very important to ensure you can combo off succesfully on turn 4 or 5.
Since Sunny Side Up is a fast combo deck, Time Walking Exarch Twin and double Time Walking Twin Pod can be critical. If you're floozy enough to have a Plains of some sort in your opening hand, you can even gain a little life from eggs pre-combo. Who needs Leave No Trace to hit Leyline of Sanctity now?
Laugh and buy the guy a beer. Or extirpate out of the board and hit their Conjurer's bauble.
See the Blind Obedience tech above--board it in and your opponent will be hard-pressed to combo off, even if you keep casting Second Sunrise instead of Faith's Reward.
Since Sunny Side Up is a fast combo deck, Time Walking Exarch Twin and double Time Walking Twin Pod can be critical. If you're floozy enough to have a Plains of some sort in your opening hand, you can even gain a little life from eggs pre-combo. Who needs Leave No Trace to hit Leyline of Sanctity now?
See the Blind Obedience tech above--board it in and your opponent will be hard-pressed to combo off, even if you keep casting Second Sunrise instead of Faith's Reward.
Salient points. I may modify my SB to include Blind Obedience after all
Perilous Research is like Edge of Autumn. It shares Edge's weakness: it is only good while comboing off. Pre-combo, you don't want to sac your eggs or lands. You want to build up as many eggs and lands as possible.
When you sideboard, you almost always remove 3 Sleight of Hand first. This is not too different from removing 2 KCI and 1 Ichor Wellspring. I think cantrips are favored because that version is faster pre-board (where you don't need inevitability as much, due to less hate).
It's a pretty stock list. I don't like both grapeshot and ordeal. should be one or the other as they both act almost identically. I like clique though. I like clique a lot. I really want to try that one out. Everything else is almost expected, so no comment there.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
I recently picked up this deck and realised it threads on the fine line of slowplaying. Not that I'm advocating slowplay, but it can be used against opponents who refuse to concede until they see your win condition, which is their fault if they still do not realise they're playing eggs.
You see, most games we play are timed and durdling around can be part of our plan for g1. The best example I can think of is only starting to pyrobomb your opponent when your entire deck is filtered with enough conjuror baubles to prevent you from fizzling.
So with the printing of Blind Obedience, I'm thinking that I'd prefer using this as a way to slow down aggro, slow down the mirror, slow down pod and still be a win-condition by extorting when the loop is assembled. This will also mean that game 1 will take even longer than ever, ensuring the remaining time for game 2 will be much shorter, which is of course within the rules as it is not our fault if the opponent does not want to concede. (Again, some opponents will 1)not concede until they see the win-con, 2)not realise that the artifact hate in their hand is irrelevant to the new win-con, this works fine against them.)
So does anyone of you here other than me, not press for the win game 1, by that I meant being not in a hurry to go to game 2 to face the hate. Is Blind Obedience maindeck worthy in a low-infect and rdw meta? I mean this card time-walks a few decks not only conveniently being a wincondition all by itself.
PS: I'm unwilling to discuss the ethical aspects of sportsmanship regarding that line of play I suggested, I'm being careful, I do not like to fizzle mid-combo and Eggs is already a complicated enough deck to play having the need to remember gravestorm count, mana count, combo piece counts, basic land count and of course whether or not I had dropped a land so I can play that Ghost Quarter for further shenanigans.
Blind Obedience does not slow down aggro unless it has a lot of haste creatures.
EDIT: If you're referring to its extort ability, it's unreliable as the fetchlands can't search for basic Plains and getting a Hallowed Fountain untapped undoes two extorts.
What happens if you win game 1 and lose game 2 or vice versa? You have no time to play game 3 so the match ends in a draw. Are you sure you want that?
I want (and expect) to win Game 1 more often than not, then I will either have Game 2 well within my reach to win in the first 5-10 turns or I will likely lose or even scoop so we can get Game 3 completed in time for the round.
Currently I am running 1 Pyrite maindeck win, 2 Blind Obedience on SB as alt wins/anti-aggro (gruul/rdw specifically) and semi-hate for Twin. SB also has 3 Holy Day and 3 Pyroclasm to ensure I can keep any creature based decks from killing me. 4 Silence is my anti-control support package.
Also if the first sunrise resolved, that normally means your opponent isn't going to interact anymore (unless he is building op mana by recurring a fetchland with every sunrise you play), so you can kill them quite fast, even if they don't scoop.
From my (limited) testing, I'm often much more likely to fizzle if I have to burn 2 Sunrises in the first loop to play around graveyard hate. I recommend all opponents to wait until I hit the bottom of my library if I had to dodge a graveyard exiling-card.
I haven't previously thought of attempting a second loop with the initial Sunrise on the stack post-Relic. Thanks! I should test again against Tron, then.
My recommendation was for opponents to not scoop and to wait it out for fizzles post-dodging graveyard hate. I believe my Sunny Side Up opponent is only 100% guaranteed to not fizzle once s/he hits the bottom of his/her library (given no knowledge about his/her hand).
I haven't previously thought of attempting a second loop with the initial Sunrise on the stack post-Relic. Thanks! I should test again against Tron, then.
My recommendation was for opponents to not scoop and to wait it out for fizzles post-dodging graveyard hate. I believe my Sunny Side Up opponent is only 100% guaranteed to not fizzle once s/he hits the bottom of his/her library (given no knowledge about his/her hand).
That would be true if we didn't have so many cantrips in addition to the 16 eggs. I find that after loop 2, it's hard for me to screw up so bad I can't recover (that is, put a trigger on the stack wrong, or ghost quarter before activating bauble, etc). In fact, if I loop twice, I know I'm going to win, as I will soon have most of my deck in my hand, and will have 2+ lotus blooms in play. Even if I don't pull a SS or FR in the draws for loop 2, I will pull a combination of serum vision / sleight of hand / probe, which will chain into one.
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"The real problem with vexing devil is not that it is bad so much as it's not good" - KNTO 4/2/2013.
U Delver Fae
UR Nivix Fiend
UWB Esper Sage
G
InfectRIPU
Fissure PostRIPUR
Izzet PostRIPUBR
The Perfect Pauper StormRIPModern:
UW
EggsRIPGR Tron
Legacy:
0 Manaless Dredge
UWR Miracles
UWB Stoneblade and Deathblade
UWR Delver
UWR Landstill
The cantrip version is the safer choice. It has more proven results.
Best of luck to you, and don't forget to get a good breakfast.
Patience. The deck has shown itself. Soon, people will gather, and the great breakfast will be upon us.
Decks in the proven section are added when a deck does well repeatedly at large tournaments. MTGO and smaller tournaments aren't really considered. The problem is that people just aren't playing it.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Laugh and buy the guy a beer. Or extirpate out of the board and hit their Conjurer's bauble.
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Has anyone ever tested Perilous Research in conjunction with more Ichor Wellspring? This seems a hell of a lot better than just running Sleight of Hand. And it seems even more explosive in versions running KCI.
Now from what I can see KCI is not favored, but ... for some reason I can't figure out why, it seems like the Etherium Sculptor effect that doesn't die to most removal. When comboing off you are almost always assurred victory whether you are running the optional Banefire/Bitter Ordeal/Grapeshot or Lab Man. After legitimately looking through 30+ pages of this thread I have heard it is slower but ... is this really the case or is it largely unneeded? I have played combo for years and always prefered slow consistency VS speed, is this the argument with KCI?
I have not tested Perilous Research with Ichor Wellspring, however I expect it is likely not very good, due to the mana investment required to re-use it mid-combo. KCI is used because it not only helps you create mana, it gives you a consistent sacrifice outlet every Sunrise/Reward for your Ichors. With Perilous Research, you'd have to count on drawing into them, and would have to invest mana to cast them - something often you can't spare.
Regarding using Banefire, Bitter Ordeal, Laboratory Maniac - I have no problem running ONE of these in the sideboard, as a backup, I think Laboratory Maniac is the best choice, as it is not as dependant on infinite (or arbitrarily large) recursion loops in order to win, something which could be an issue if you were to be Slaughter Games'd for Conjurers Bauble (which as I've stated is the correct choice for the 1st SG to be resolved against Eggs)
Regarding KCI vs Cantrips. I agree KCI is much more consistent, and nearly fizzle-proof... however, it is slower and the cantrip version is almost as strong once you get going, you just need to be a little more judicious with your Reshapes.
I prefer the cantrip version for a couple reasons. They are so much better earlier in the game, and many times I've started a 7 card hand that is strong, but without a Lotus Bloom, then cantripped into a Lotus Bloom on turn 1 (or even turn 2). Having those additional cantrips help smooth out your Lotus Bloom starts and land drops, which can be very important to ensure you can combo off succesfully on turn 4 or 5.
After seeing Blind Obedience sideboarded in 3 PTQ Top 8-ing Sunny Side Up builds, I think Blind Obedience has the last laugh. One of the lists even maindecked one copy as the only win con (yup, no Pyrite Spellbomb maindeck).
Since Sunny Side Up is a fast combo deck, Time Walking Exarch Twin and double Time Walking Twin Pod can be critical. If you're floozy enough to have a Plains of some sort in your opening hand, you can even gain a little life from eggs pre-combo. Who needs Leave No Trace to hit Leyline of Sanctity now?
You can even give RG Artifact Tron fits by forcing them off some Ancient Grudge/Nature's Claim/Vandalblast mana and Oblivion Stone (but not Relic of Progenitus) for one critical turn.
See the Blind Obedience tech above--board it in and your opponent will be hard-pressed to combo off, even if you keep casting Second Sunrise instead of Faith's Reward.
Salient points. I may modify my SB to include Blind Obedience after all
When you sideboard, you almost always remove 3 Sleight of Hand first. This is not too different from removing 2 KCI and 1 Ichor Wellspring. I think cantrips are favored because that version is faster pre-board (where you don't need inevitability as much, due to less hate).
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Big Johnny.
PTQ San Diego'13 (Brno, Czech Republic)
Click Here for the Link
7 Island
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Hallowed Fountain
INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Serum Visions
4 Second Sunrise
4 Reshape
4 Faith's Reward
3 Sleight of Hand
2 Silence
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Elsewhere Flask
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Silence
1 Bitter Ordeal
2 Pithing Needle
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Echoing Truth
1 Grapeshot
Enyoy!
It's a pretty stock list. I don't like both grapeshot and ordeal. should be one or the other as they both act almost identically. I like clique though. I like clique a lot. I really want to try that one out. Everything else is almost expected, so no comment there.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
You see, most games we play are timed and durdling around can be part of our plan for g1. The best example I can think of is only starting to pyrobomb your opponent when your entire deck is filtered with enough conjuror baubles to prevent you from fizzling.
So with the printing of Blind Obedience, I'm thinking that I'd prefer using this as a way to slow down aggro, slow down the mirror, slow down pod and still be a win-condition by extorting when the loop is assembled. This will also mean that game 1 will take even longer than ever, ensuring the remaining time for game 2 will be much shorter, which is of course within the rules as it is not our fault if the opponent does not want to concede. (Again, some opponents will 1)not concede until they see the win-con, 2)not realise that the artifact hate in their hand is irrelevant to the new win-con, this works fine against them.)
So does anyone of you here other than me, not press for the win game 1, by that I meant being not in a hurry to go to game 2 to face the hate. Is Blind Obedience maindeck worthy in a low-infect and rdw meta? I mean this card time-walks a few decks not only conveniently being a wincondition all by itself.
PS: I'm unwilling to discuss the ethical aspects of sportsmanship regarding that line of play I suggested, I'm being careful, I do not like to fizzle mid-combo and Eggs is already a complicated enough deck to play having the need to remember gravestorm count, mana count, combo piece counts, basic land count and of course whether or not I had dropped a land so I can play that Ghost Quarter for further shenanigans.
360 Infinity Cube (No mana-screw multiplayer madness!)
EDIT: If you're referring to its extort ability, it's unreliable as the fetchlands can't search for basic Plains and getting a Hallowed Fountain untapped undoes two extorts.
What happens if you win game 1 and lose game 2 or vice versa? You have no time to play game 3 so the match ends in a draw. Are you sure you want that?
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Big Johnny.
I want (and expect) to win Game 1 more often than not, then I will either have Game 2 well within my reach to win in the first 5-10 turns or I will likely lose or even scoop so we can get Game 3 completed in time for the round.
Currently I am running 1 Pyrite maindeck win, 2 Blind Obedience on SB as alt wins/anti-aggro (gruul/rdw specifically) and semi-hate for Twin. SB also has 3 Holy Day and 3 Pyroclasm to ensure I can keep any creature based decks from killing me. 4 Silence is my anti-control support package.
From my (limited) testing, I'm often much more likely to fizzle if I have to burn 2 Sunrises in the first loop to play around graveyard hate. I recommend all opponents to wait until I hit the bottom of my library if I had to dodge a graveyard exiling-card.
My recommendation was for opponents to not scoop and to wait it out for fizzles post-dodging graveyard hate. I believe my Sunny Side Up opponent is only 100% guaranteed to not fizzle once s/he hits the bottom of his/her library (given no knowledge about his/her hand).
That would be true if we didn't have so many cantrips in addition to the 16 eggs. I find that after loop 2, it's hard for me to screw up so bad I can't recover (that is, put a trigger on the stack wrong, or ghost quarter before activating bauble, etc). In fact, if I loop twice, I know I'm going to win, as I will soon have most of my deck in my hand, and will have 2+ lotus blooms in play. Even if I don't pull a SS or FR in the draws for loop 2, I will pull a combination of serum vision / sleight of hand / probe, which will chain into one.
I could start a new thread if you want.
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Big Johnny.