Also you don't want to have a single win condition card wise. Pyrite spellbomb does get the added benefit of being spot removal which doubles as a win condition, which can keep you alive, in whatever situation may arise. Kills Ethersworn Cannonist, Kiki-Jiki, Gaddock Teeg, etc.
Ahh yes, good points. My thought process was to just board in echoing truth or repeal.
Speaking of which, does the deck even HAVE a sideboard? Or is siding in anti-hate not even worth it.
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They call me Hank Hill because I bring the pro-pain.
One of the biggest things to remember is that you can reshape for any artifact. So, once your reshape resolves, your opponent doesn't get another chance to do anything before the artifact enters the battlefield. This is very relevant when you're facing down graveyard hate in ability form (Tormod's Crypt, etc), you can reshape with X=1, and if your opponent OKs it, you fetch pithing needle, and name whatever you're facing, and it can't be popped. The protective cards are used with their main function in mind, thus silence is played during your upkeep to prevent countermagic interference, and defense grid can be played ahead of time or reshaped for once you have the mana to spare.
Played this list at PTQ Kitchener this past weekend:
4x Second Sunrise
2x Open the Vaults
2x Noxious Revival
4x Reshape
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Pact of Negation
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Laboratory Maniac
2x Etherium Sculptor
1x Mox Opal
3x Lotus Bloom
2x Krark-Clan Ironworks
2x Ichor Wellspring
3x Elsewhere Flask
4x Conjurer's Bauble
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
3x Terrarion
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Darksteel Citadel
2x Plains
5x Island
Some notes on the deck:
Pulled off 4 games, where it was a turn 3 kill. (one involved having 3 reshape)
Silver Bullets (2 can be fetched with Reshape in time of need)
1x Grafdigger's Cage - used against Pod
1x Pithing Needle - used against graveyard hate artifacts, and Karn
1x Pact of Negation - pushing through Counter decks
Win Condition
1x Pyrite Spellbomb - main win
1x Laboratory Maniac - in the event players get shroud/hexproof, or main win is neutered
Sideboard:
1x Back to Nature - against leylines (and later on, to hear about Stony Silence)
1x Pithing Needle - any
2x Grafdigger's Cage - pod, loam, etc
1x Surgical Extraction - gy
2x Faerie Macabre - gy
1x Silence - counter
2x Grand Abolisher - counter
2x Dispatch - removal, mainly had Tarmo in mind
3x Leyline of Sanctity - discard burn
Changes I'll likely make in the future:
Emrakul - it's faster to ramp mana, and cast this, than to run through the whole deck
S/B - Gut Shots for Thalia/Affinity, and mass-artifact removal (Creeping Corrosion or similar)
4-4, which should have been 5-3, due to 8th round sloppiness.
It performed great for a non-Tier1 deck.
Hey guys
Long time lurker, first time poster. The only reason I signed up is so I can post in this thread an interesting find I have made.
I am fortunate enough to have 2 stores I regularly play at. One is a very casual area, comfortable chairs and plenty of snacks and drinks, and the other store is far more competitive, with the 5th and 7th highest rated players in my province being regulars there. This has given me ample chances to play against both interesting rogue decks and tier one decks.
I've been running the KKIW build for both of them and I'm pleased with the results. I'm not going to post match up results or deck lists just now, but I will share a card I stumbled on that has proven incredibly useful.
Doubling Cube
It's main use is allowing me to stick pile so much mana so quickly. I have taken one KKIW out for one and probably wouldn't go more than that. Like the sculptor, it's great to have, but not in opening hand. Anyway, I thought I'd let you guys try that out.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
OOoooo.... Now there's a new cool addition. Don't think that's been brought up before. Once you have 8 in pool it starts generating mana, and if you have the iron works out it can redo the effect after each sunrise... I really like it in theory. 1 seems like the right number though. Would make it really easy to banefire ftw. TECH!
And welcome to the forums, good to have you, yada yada yada
I've found that doubling cube provides huge amounts of excel, but when it comes on, you're usually winning already. However, It was able to save my ass a few times but sacking everything into the Ironworks, doubling it and banefiring. It's a card I usually side out game 2 and 3
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
I don't think anyone is hailing it as the new savior and basis of the deck, but the question is is it worth a slot as a 1 off? I think the answer is yes, though testing is required to see.
I know others said earlier that Peer through Depths wasn't worth it because it can put Eggs on the bottom of the Libary but it gets you more important spells which are making my deck win turn 4 alot more consistently.
First, ForestHex, after much deliberation and testing, the version of the deck that most of us believe to be the most consistent (which is the most important factor here) is the KCI version, utilizing Krark-Clan Ironworks. As such, most of the card choices revolve around said card. Ichor Wellspring and Terrion become entirely playable, while Chromatic Sphere and Elsewhere Flask take a back seat. With the KCI version, you don't need quite as many lotus blooms, as your real mana should be coming from the KCI, not the lotus bloom loops. Also, we can play Darksteel Citadel for absurd amounts of mana per iteration, and Banefire to win the game faster. Overall, it's a better version of the deck.
That said, if you are stalwart about keeping the pre-KCI version, here are the changes I would make:
Some sort of cost-reduction mechanic is required, to prevent you from stalling out on mana. Options include Etherium Sculptor, or Locket Of Yesterdays (plus riddlesmith if you can find room). You really need 2 of one of these, maybe even 3. To make room, you certainly don't need 2 copies of disciple of the vault, and the sunbeam spellbomb is not particularly necessary. The rest of the deck is very instant/sorcery heavy, but if that's how you like it, i guess it's ok.
Now, on to my idea.
I was looking over my list, and trying to figure out what was not pulling it's weight. I have a singleton copy of Wargate which i seldom get to fire off, just because the mana is awkward and paying 3 for a lotus bloom is kinda dumb, let alone fetching anything with an actual mana cost. Also, I partially feel that Etherium Sculptor is a bit win-more in the KCI version, as once you hit your mana, you should have no problems. (the more I think about it, i don't really love the doubling cube idea either). I like it as a singleton, but probably no more. maybe not even that. So I have some open slots. I think I'm going to add a singleton Defense Grid mainboard, because you can reshape for it against U/X control decks and if they don't respond to the reshape, they don't get priority again before it hits, and it should make your turn safe. I'd rather have the defense grid to fetch than the pithing needle, because I think a lot more decks maindeck countermagic than artifact-based graveyard hate. Even then, that leaves me with 1-2 slots open. Enter my idea:
I don't know why we haven't thought of it before (or maybe we have. I've been on this thread from the beginning of it, but it is very long). Look at it two ways:
One, it's a chump blocker against agro that ramps, maybe kills something in combat, and cantrips. Not bad for 4.
Two, it's an egg, albiet a rather expensive one. However, in addition to drawing cards, it thins at the same time, and gives a free shuffle trigger that can be responded to with conjurer's bauble putting valuable stuff on the bottom of the library. (the lands ETBT, but with ghost quarter, that doesn't really matter).
I like it in theory, but have yet to do any testing whatsoever. Thoughts?
I've found that reshaping into a sculptor is a safety cushion to push through a shaky combo situation.
As for Simulacrum, I fear that his cost will make him hard to play early (which is where his use as a blocker is most relevant) and that he would be a win-more. Basically, he does what the deck is naturally going to do (get lands and draw cards) but he'll do it slower. I can see him being awkward.
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They call me Hank Hill because I bring the pro-pain.
OK, so I've started playing with the KCI build. I like how you don't have to dig through your entire library for Pyrite Spellbomb, but keeping track of how much of each color of mana you have is tedious.
What are your opinions on Prophetic Prism in there? It can do three things at once: draw, fix colors and die (to KCI). Most other eggs are only capable of two, or lose one functionality when you sac them to KCI (Star and Flask for example). Is it worth cutting a few Chromatic Spheres, Elsewhere Flasks or Ichor Wellsprings for it?
Certainly don't cut Ichor Wellsprings (twice as much draw) or Chromatic Sphere (Color Fixing and Cheaper). I guess you could cut Elsewhere flask, but albino penguin's point still stands. Once you've got the KCI and at least one SS, you should be winning.
Hi everyone. I was a member here a while ago, and quit for about a year. I'm back, have an Eggs deck, and i'm looking to get some insight into the deck in tournaments.
From what I understand from reading here, is that this deck is tier 2, but high on the list. There was an original decklist w/o KCI, and lists with KCI. The KCI deck is more consistent, but a turn slower; while the non-KCI version is less consistent, yet can combo on turn 3, rather than turn 4-5.
That's what I've learned so far... I had questions you guys might be able to answer...
First: In the KCI version, can someone give me a normal turn-by-turn win scenario, and a god-hand version?
Second: Sideboards. I'm really stuck on a sideboard right now. I know that Echoing Truth is VERY good as a sideboard option against a lot of decks, and cards like Pithing Needle is good against cards like Tormod's Crypt; but I was hoping there's some standard SB that I can use temporarily just to test vs others in modern.
As of right now, I'm running the Non-KCI version, because I like the turn faster combo, especially with the number of Storm decks that are in my meta. I'm looking at a FAST meta, with Delver decks killing me turn 4, Maleria decks comboing infinite turn 4-5, and Storm that can consistantly comboing turn 2-3.
Sideboard is totally up in the air. The only ones I know I like is Echoing Truth and Silence. I couldn't get it to auto card, but I'm not sure if Nature's Claim is better, or Seal of Primordium. I like that if you ARE going to kill one of their art/enchant, then when you second sunrise, they're going to get it back. I like that seal comes back too... Granted, I think that if something was that bad, you'd just play Nature's Claim the turn before you go off and not worry about it... Either way, there it is.
I have constructed a deck without KCI, which is faster and seems to hold almost, if not the same consistency as a KCI build. Unlike KCI, which is very tight, my build is able to fit 4 pact of negation main deck. I find it gives my deck more resiliencies that are needed in a Meta full of Delver style counters.
The problem with KCI, I find, is that the list is so tight; it is excruciatingly hard to sideboard without negatively impacting its consistency games 2 and 3, let alone trying to include counter hate (i.e pithing needle, ect) main deck.
There are about 3 cards that I can auto take out each for g2 in the KCI list and depending on the deck across the table another card. 4 Slots is plenty enough to grab the relevant sb cards, which usually amount to being 2 Pithing Needle, 1 Bounce, and 1 Laboratory Maniac. Or if against storm, 3 Angel's Grace, 1 Silence. And against control, 1 Pithing Needle, 1/3 Defensive Grid, 1/3 Silence. However, I will admit after the initial 4 its gets pretty hard to decide what to take out.
Also in the sb department: Don't run hate against other decks. Sunrise is a largely non-interactive deck, so all you need to pack are anti-hate cards and defensive cards. Angel's Grace is a catch all for any 1 turn combo deck, since we usually can combo off the turn after they do so. Silence and Defensive Grid are anti-control cards so we can combo off completely safe. Both Bounce, in either Wipe Away or Echoing Truth, and anti-hate, in Pithing Needle, should probably take up the rest of your slots.
It's pretty rare for the non-KCI deck to combo off on T3. You're not going to get good mileage out of 2-3 eggs only (T1 egg, T2 2/1 egg(s), T3 Sunrise). T3 wins happen when you have double Reshape AND Sunrise, or to a smaller extent, Reshape, Gargadon AND Sunrise. Each Reshape-for-Bloom sets you back 2 blue mana and gives you a Black Lotus (3 mana), netting 2 extra mana for eggs, as well as having 6 mana from 2 Blooms after Sunrise resolves.
The KCI builds have obscene draw power but little dig. In contrast, my Gargadon build runs 11 Sunrises and/or tutors. Drift of Phantasms is an all-star - having dropped 2/3 eggs by T2, the best thing you can do is tutor Sunrise on T3 since you're probably out of eggs. KCI, which runs 8 colorless sources (4 each of Darksteel Citadel and Ghost Quarter), cannot afford this luxury.
Both builds have their "I win" moments - KCI, when you drop the namesake artifact, and non-KCI, when you have 2 Blooms or 1 Bloom, 1 Gargadon and 3 lands (i.e. when you have 6 mana per loop). The Gargadon build can run so many virtual Sunrises that even if you're only drawing 3-4 cards per Sunrise, you can cast Sunrise enough times to draw your entire library, or until you hit Reshape/Gargadon which will produce insane amounts of mana. Just imagine you have 6 mana open, and that as soon as you draw a Revival, Drift or Sunrise (~10 cards out of 30-40 in your deck) you can continue the loop.
With KCI you have to keep close track of how much of each color mana you have. With Gargadon, you have to repeat the loop a lot more times than you might be comfortable with. This makes the deck an unpopular choice for people who like to keep things fast, but hey, personal preference. Personally I wish that Magic could be more like chess and people would resign when they see an unwinnable scenario, but nooooo, some people just loooove to waste time and make you play out the entire combo in the hope that you slip up.
Pre-board, non-KCI has fewer dead cards. KCI has 4 copies of KCI, so each extra one you draw is useless. On the other hand, KCI doesn't have to draw its entire library to win. Post-board, KCI has the luxury of siding in artifact-based hate (Defense Grid, Pithing Needle) with little worry since it can eat the artifacts even if they're blanks (e.g. opponent doesn't have any target for Needle, you play Needle anyway and sac it for net 1 mana).
I have found with the Riddlesmith, Maniac build I run generally comboing off turn 4 or 5 you are guaranteed success, and a bloom in hand suspended on your first turn really helps as well since you don't need the reshape to fix your mana
Sleight Of Hand helps a lot as well for digging I have found, much more consistent than Gitaxian Probe before you combo off
It really depends on the deck you're playing to decide when you need to go off, Burn is usually the deck I face that is if I wait will I lose?
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
Hey everybody. So I'm going to a Modern 2HG Tourny today with my Eggs build. I've made some tweeks to the KCI build and I find it consistently working out for me. I'll post the deck list today, and how my match ups go within the next week or so. As far as my partner's deck goes, I basically handed him my sideboard and some more counterspells and said "Use this", so I may have the advantage with a preboarded silence, wipe away, echoing truth, etc.
I don't know how to post a decklist, and I can't seem to find a FAQ so I'll do what I think I have to do. Apologies if my decklist comes out wonky.
Now some of these card choices are going to seem odd, I know. But, just because it is a 2HG format, you're not allowed to sideboard and the games are best of 1. Therefore, I'm expecting people to preboard in combo hate. I'm trying to sidestep Leylines with Laboratory Maniac and Torpor Orb by reducing my ETB draw cards.
One inclusion I've made in my deck that is a bit different is the two faithless looting. I can't count the number of times that I've had 3-4 islands in play, 2 Ghost Quarter, and the rest of my basic lands in hand. Or 2 Reshape in hand, and my last 2 Lotus Blooms with only one cycling. Faithless Looting lets me dump out spare cards into my graveyard, while replacing them with live eggs. Then, when they're in the yard, I can either conjurere's bauble them back into the library and tutor them out, or I OtV and bring them straight back.
One more card that I was really pushing earlier was Doubling Cube. Now don't take my lack of inclusion for it the wrong way, because it is fantastic. I've won with it, KCI, a few eggs and banefire, without SS many times. However, the fact that I'm taking out the banefire means that It loses so much value in the deck. Most, if not all, my eggs are discounted by Sculptor, so the eggs-tra (had to do it) mana is just win-more and takes out a slot that can be used for something better. I'll be on here for a little bit longer, so If you have any questions about the card choices I've made, feel free to ask. Cheers
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
Also, One more card I'm going to look into is Vedalken Archmage
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, and I don't have any, but I'm going to be on the lookout for 2 of today, to test them out when the chance arrises
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
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UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
Play Magic online free with GCCG!
Download it here -- (My Username is ShinkyP)
Trade Thread: Here!
Speaking of which, does the deck even HAVE a sideboard? Or is siding in anti-hate not even worth it.
One of the biggest things to remember is that you can reshape for any artifact. So, once your reshape resolves, your opponent doesn't get another chance to do anything before the artifact enters the battlefield. This is very relevant when you're facing down graveyard hate in ability form (Tormod's Crypt, etc), you can reshape with X=1, and if your opponent OKs it, you fetch pithing needle, and name whatever you're facing, and it can't be popped. The protective cards are used with their main function in mind, thus silence is played during your upkeep to prevent countermagic interference, and defense grid can be played ahead of time or reshaped for once you have the mana to spare.
UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
Play Magic online free with GCCG!
Download it here -- (My Username is ShinkyP)
Trade Thread: Here!
4x Second Sunrise
2x Open the Vaults
2x Noxious Revival
4x Reshape
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Pact of Negation
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Laboratory Maniac
2x Etherium Sculptor
1x Mox Opal
3x Lotus Bloom
2x Krark-Clan Ironworks
2x Ichor Wellspring
3x Elsewhere Flask
4x Conjurer's Bauble
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
3x Terrarion
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Darksteel Citadel
2x Plains
5x Island
Some notes on the deck:
Pulled off 4 games, where it was a turn 3 kill. (one involved having 3 reshape)
Silver Bullets (2 can be fetched with Reshape in time of need)
1x Grafdigger's Cage - used against Pod
1x Pithing Needle - used against graveyard hate artifacts, and Karn
1x Pact of Negation - pushing through Counter decks
Win Condition
1x Pyrite Spellbomb - main win
1x Laboratory Maniac - in the event players get shroud/hexproof, or main win is neutered
Sideboard:
1x Back to Nature - against leylines (and later on, to hear about Stony Silence)
1x Pithing Needle - any
2x Grafdigger's Cage - pod, loam, etc
1x Surgical Extraction - gy
2x Faerie Macabre - gy
1x Silence - counter
2x Grand Abolisher - counter
2x Dispatch - removal, mainly had Tarmo in mind
3x Leyline of Sanctity - discard burn
Changes I'll likely make in the future:
Emrakul - it's faster to ramp mana, and cast this, than to run through the whole deck
S/B - Gut Shots for Thalia/Affinity, and mass-artifact removal (Creeping Corrosion or similar)
4-4, which should have been 5-3, due to 8th round sloppiness.
It performed great for a non-Tier1 deck.
~Kirsh
Long time lurker, first time poster. The only reason I signed up is so I can post in this thread an interesting find I have made.
I am fortunate enough to have 2 stores I regularly play at. One is a very casual area, comfortable chairs and plenty of snacks and drinks, and the other store is far more competitive, with the 5th and 7th highest rated players in my province being regulars there. This has given me ample chances to play against both interesting rogue decks and tier one decks.
I've been running the KKIW build for both of them and I'm pleased with the results. I'm not going to post match up results or deck lists just now, but I will share a card I stumbled on that has proven incredibly useful.
Doubling Cube
It's main use is allowing me to stick pile so much mana so quickly. I have taken one KKIW out for one and probably wouldn't go more than that. Like the sculptor, it's great to have, but not in opening hand. Anyway, I thought I'd let you guys try that out.
Cheers
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
OOoooo.... Now there's a new cool addition. Don't think that's been brought up before. Once you have 8 in pool it starts generating mana, and if you have the iron works out it can redo the effect after each sunrise... I really like it in theory. 1 seems like the right number though. Would make it really easy to banefire ftw. TECH!
And welcome to the forums, good to have you, yada yada yada
UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
Play Magic online free with GCCG!
Download it here -- (My Username is ShinkyP)
Trade Thread: Here!
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
Play Magic online free with GCCG!
Download it here -- (My Username is ShinkyP)
Trade Thread: Here!
Artifact : 21
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Elsewhere Flask
4 Lotus Bloom
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
Creatures : 2
2 Disciple of the Vault
Instant : 12
4 Noxious Revival
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Second Sunrise
Land : 14
4 Ghost Quarter
10 Island
Sorcery : 11
3 Edge of Autumn
4 Reshape
4 Serum Visions
I know others said earlier that Peer through Depths wasn't worth it because it can put Eggs on the bottom of the Libary but it gets you more important spells which are making my deck win turn 4 alot more consistently.
First, ForestHex, after much deliberation and testing, the version of the deck that most of us believe to be the most consistent (which is the most important factor here) is the KCI version, utilizing Krark-Clan Ironworks. As such, most of the card choices revolve around said card. Ichor Wellspring and Terrion become entirely playable, while Chromatic Sphere and Elsewhere Flask take a back seat. With the KCI version, you don't need quite as many lotus blooms, as your real mana should be coming from the KCI, not the lotus bloom loops. Also, we can play Darksteel Citadel for absurd amounts of mana per iteration, and Banefire to win the game faster. Overall, it's a better version of the deck.
That said, if you are stalwart about keeping the pre-KCI version, here are the changes I would make:
Some sort of cost-reduction mechanic is required, to prevent you from stalling out on mana. Options include Etherium Sculptor, or Locket Of Yesterdays (plus riddlesmith if you can find room). You really need 2 of one of these, maybe even 3. To make room, you certainly don't need 2 copies of disciple of the vault, and the sunbeam spellbomb is not particularly necessary. The rest of the deck is very instant/sorcery heavy, but if that's how you like it, i guess it's ok.
Now, on to my idea.
I was looking over my list, and trying to figure out what was not pulling it's weight. I have a singleton copy of Wargate which i seldom get to fire off, just because the mana is awkward and paying 3 for a lotus bloom is kinda dumb, let alone fetching anything with an actual mana cost. Also, I partially feel that Etherium Sculptor is a bit win-more in the KCI version, as once you hit your mana, you should have no problems. (the more I think about it, i don't really love the doubling cube idea either). I like it as a singleton, but probably no more. maybe not even that. So I have some open slots. I think I'm going to add a singleton Defense Grid mainboard, because you can reshape for it against U/X control decks and if they don't respond to the reshape, they don't get priority again before it hits, and it should make your turn safe. I'd rather have the defense grid to fetch than the pithing needle, because I think a lot more decks maindeck countermagic than artifact-based graveyard hate. Even then, that leaves me with 1-2 slots open. Enter my idea:
IDEA!
I don't know why we haven't thought of it before (or maybe we have. I've been on this thread from the beginning of it, but it is very long). Look at it two ways:
One, it's a chump blocker against agro that ramps, maybe kills something in combat, and cantrips. Not bad for 4.
Two, it's an egg, albiet a rather expensive one. However, in addition to drawing cards, it thins at the same time, and gives a free shuffle trigger that can be responded to with conjurer's bauble putting valuable stuff on the bottom of the library. (the lands ETBT, but with ghost quarter, that doesn't really matter).
I like it in theory, but have yet to do any testing whatsoever. Thoughts?
UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
Play Magic online free with GCCG!
Download it here -- (My Username is ShinkyP)
Trade Thread: Here!
As for Simulacrum, I fear that his cost will make him hard to play early (which is where his use as a blocker is most relevant) and that he would be a win-more. Basically, he does what the deck is naturally going to do (get lands and draw cards) but he'll do it slower. I can see him being awkward.
What are your opinions on Prophetic Prism in there? It can do three things at once: draw, fix colors and die (to KCI). Most other eggs are only capable of two, or lose one functionality when you sac them to KCI (Star and Flask for example). Is it worth cutting a few Chromatic Spheres, Elsewhere Flasks or Ichor Wellsprings for it?
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
UR Storm WUBRG Sunnyside Up W Death+Taxes BR 7->0:60 Discard
EDH
GU Vig RWU Zedruu BR Olivia
Play Magic online free with GCCG!
Download it here -- (My Username is ShinkyP)
Trade Thread: Here!
From what I understand from reading here, is that this deck is tier 2, but high on the list. There was an original decklist w/o KCI, and lists with KCI. The KCI deck is more consistent, but a turn slower; while the non-KCI version is less consistent, yet can combo on turn 3, rather than turn 4-5.
That's what I've learned so far... I had questions you guys might be able to answer...
First: In the KCI version, can someone give me a normal turn-by-turn win scenario, and a god-hand version?
Second: Sideboards. I'm really stuck on a sideboard right now. I know that Echoing Truth is VERY good as a sideboard option against a lot of decks, and cards like Pithing Needle is good against cards like Tormod's Crypt; but I was hoping there's some standard SB that I can use temporarily just to test vs others in modern.
As of right now, I'm running the Non-KCI version, because I like the turn faster combo, especially with the number of Storm decks that are in my meta. I'm looking at a FAST meta, with Delver decks killing me turn 4, Maleria decks comboing infinite turn 4-5, and Storm that can consistantly comboing turn 2-3.
Thanks!
-Yawg
*Edit*
Here's my decklist btw... Just for reference.
1 Laboratory Maniac
Artifacts 21
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Elsewhere Flask
4 Lotus Bloom
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Second Sunrise
4 Reshape
4 Serum Visions
2 Spoils of the Vault
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Noxious Revival
1 Reclaim
Lands 15
4 Ghost Quarter
11 Island
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bitter Ordeal
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Silence
4 Echoing Truth
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nature's Claim
1 Tormod's Crypt
Sideboard is totally up in the air. The only ones I know I like is Echoing Truth and Silence. I couldn't get it to auto card, but I'm not sure if Nature's Claim is better, or Seal of Primordium. I like that if you ARE going to kill one of their art/enchant, then when you second sunrise, they're going to get it back. I like that seal comes back too... Granted, I think that if something was that bad, you'd just play Nature's Claim the turn before you go off and not worry about it... Either way, there it is.
The problem with KCI, I find, is that the list is so tight; it is excruciatingly hard to sideboard without negatively impacting its consistency games 2 and 3, let alone trying to include counter hate (i.e pithing needle, ect) main deck.
Decklist coming soon..
Also in the sb department: Don't run hate against other decks. Sunrise is a largely non-interactive deck, so all you need to pack are anti-hate cards and defensive cards. Angel's Grace is a catch all for any 1 turn combo deck, since we usually can combo off the turn after they do so. Silence and Defensive Grid are anti-control cards so we can combo off completely safe. Both Bounce, in either Wipe Away or Echoing Truth, and anti-hate, in Pithing Needle, should probably take up the rest of your slots.
The KCI builds have obscene draw power but little dig. In contrast, my Gargadon build runs 11 Sunrises and/or tutors. Drift of Phantasms is an all-star - having dropped 2/3 eggs by T2, the best thing you can do is tutor Sunrise on T3 since you're probably out of eggs. KCI, which runs 8 colorless sources (4 each of Darksteel Citadel and Ghost Quarter), cannot afford this luxury.
Both builds have their "I win" moments - KCI, when you drop the namesake artifact, and non-KCI, when you have 2 Blooms or 1 Bloom, 1 Gargadon and 3 lands (i.e. when you have 6 mana per loop). The Gargadon build can run so many virtual Sunrises that even if you're only drawing 3-4 cards per Sunrise, you can cast Sunrise enough times to draw your entire library, or until you hit Reshape/Gargadon which will produce insane amounts of mana. Just imagine you have 6 mana open, and that as soon as you draw a Revival, Drift or Sunrise (~10 cards out of 30-40 in your deck) you can continue the loop.
With KCI you have to keep close track of how much of each color mana you have. With Gargadon, you have to repeat the loop a lot more times than you might be comfortable with. This makes the deck an unpopular choice for people who like to keep things fast, but hey, personal preference. Personally I wish that Magic could be more like chess and people would resign when they see an unwinnable scenario, but nooooo, some people just loooove to waste time and make you play out the entire combo in the hope that you slip up.
Pre-board, non-KCI has fewer dead cards. KCI has 4 copies of KCI, so each extra one you draw is useless. On the other hand, KCI doesn't have to draw its entire library to win. Post-board, KCI has the luxury of siding in artifact-based hate (Defense Grid, Pithing Needle) with little worry since it can eat the artifacts even if they're blanks (e.g. opponent doesn't have any target for Needle, you play Needle anyway and sac it for net 1 mana).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Sleight Of Hand helps a lot as well for digging I have found, much more consistent than Gitaxian Probe before you combo off
It really depends on the deck you're playing to decide when you need to go off, Burn is usually the deck I face that is if I wait will I lose?
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
I don't know how to post a decklist, and I can't seem to find a FAQ so I'll do what I think I have to do. Apologies if my decklist comes out wonky.
Land
Creatures
Instants
Sorcery
Artifacts
Now some of these card choices are going to seem odd, I know. But, just because it is a 2HG format, you're not allowed to sideboard and the games are best of 1. Therefore, I'm expecting people to preboard in combo hate. I'm trying to sidestep Leylines with Laboratory Maniac and Torpor Orb by reducing my ETB draw cards.
One inclusion I've made in my deck that is a bit different is the two faithless looting. I can't count the number of times that I've had 3-4 islands in play, 2 Ghost Quarter, and the rest of my basic lands in hand. Or 2 Reshape in hand, and my last 2 Lotus Blooms with only one cycling. Faithless Looting lets me dump out spare cards into my graveyard, while replacing them with live eggs. Then, when they're in the yard, I can either conjurere's bauble them back into the library and tutor them out, or I OtV and bring them straight back.
One more card that I was really pushing earlier was Doubling Cube. Now don't take my lack of inclusion for it the wrong way, because it is fantastic. I've won with it, KCI, a few eggs and banefire, without SS many times. However, the fact that I'm taking out the banefire means that It loses so much value in the deck. Most, if not all, my eggs are discounted by Sculptor, so the eggs-tra (had to do it) mana is just win-more and takes out a slot that can be used for something better. I'll be on here for a little bit longer, so If you have any questions about the card choices I've made, feel free to ask. Cheers
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, and I don't have any, but I'm going to be on the lookout for 2 of today, to test them out when the chance arrises
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)