I'm not sure what the rest of your list looks like to say what I may be running over other things, but I run 2 farseek, 2 courser, and 2 KHE. I'm trying to find space for one Sweltering Suns main deck and maybe back up to three KHE. I also run 0 maindeck Relic, there just isn't room in Jund mainboard. But I have 1 in the side and am going to cut 2 other cards from the side for 1 more Relic and 1 other as yet undecided card.
I'm not sure what the rest of your list looks like to say what I may be running over other things, but I run 2 farseek, 2 courser, and 2 KHE. I'm trying to find space for one Sweltering Suns main deck and maybe back up to three KHE. I also run 0 maindeck Relic, there just isn't room in Jund mainboard. But I have 1 in the side and am going to cut 2 other cards from the side for 1 more Relic and 1 other as yet undecided card.
So your build runs this for ramp:
4 Search
4 STE
2 Farseek
2 KHE
0 Explore?
If so, that's only 10 ramp cards compared to the "normal" 14 (4 Search, 4 STE, 4 Explore, 2 Farseek).
Ok fellas, the discussion is going nowhere fast. Some decks play Prismatic Omen, some don't. Whether the black splash needs it or not, it looks like its up in the air with some people playing it and some people not.
As you can see, there are plenty of examples for all 3 configurations (including mtgo lists). If you want to narrow down the time window, the search function is easy to use. To me, the question isn't "which one is better" but "which one in which meta". Omen also suits some people's play-styles better.
Ok fellas, the discussion is going nowhere fast. Some decks play Prismatic Omen, some don't. Whether the black splash needs it or not, it looks like its up in the air with some people playing it and some people not.
As you can see, there are plenty of examples for all 3 configurations (including mtgo lists). If you want to narrow down the time window, the search function is easy to use. To me, the question isn't "which one is better" but "which one in which meta". Omen also suits some people's play-styles better.
That is sort of exactly what we were discussing the merits of omen in a 3 color list I think it fixes the mana enough to make it less annoying, however I don't want to play omen so I stick to RG and play KHE. Don't get me wrong all I tested Jund without omen and I didn't like the mana, I for sure want to be playing fatal push atm instead of bolt though, I am just expressing my tests with the lists.
The last list I piloted at a tourney for reference. I am sure I can cut the fogs and what not and I am tempted to play a primal command somewhere maybe 2.
This is the list I'm sleeving up tonight. I think it might be a tad heavy on ramp but with both Chandra and Courser I'm hoping the draws are smooth. As for the sideboard there is no burn in my meta, and people LOVE playing midrange because it makes them feel like better magic players, so that's what I focused my board on.
Anybody been using Nissa, Vital Force lately? I started to use her and she's been absolutely amazing. Thoughts?
I'd be more inclined to use her if her +1 didn't open my lands up to being removed, especially with Fatal Push being the removal spell of choice in Modern now.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Anybody been using Nissa, Vital Force lately? I started to use her and she's been absolutely amazing. Thoughts?
She defends herself with +1 and can win the game the following turn. She can also add pressure or rebuy discarded titans, sacced/destroyed Expeditions and Elders/Fetchlands. It's a great tool to grind, but seems slower than Primal Command or at the same level of speed (although you use them differently). Seems good in a traditional BGx/Tron metagame. Not so sure about her in the current Dredge + Death's Shadow + Affinity + Burn meta.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
Anybody been using Nissa, Vital Force lately? I started to use her and she's been absolutely amazing. Thoughts?
She defends herself with +1 and can win the game the following turn. She can also add pressure or rebuy discarded titans, sacced/destroyed Expeditions and Elders/Fetchlands. It's a great tool to grind, but seems slower than Primal Command or at the same level of speed (although you use them differently). Seems good in a traditional BGx/Tron metagame. Not so sure about her in the current Dredge + Death's Shadow + Affinity + Burn meta.
Yes, her protecting herself makes her a good planeswalker. But the fact that doing so let's people kill our most important resource that is otherwise hard to hit makes her bad. The last thing I want to do is turn on my opponents Fatal Pushes and let them actually interrupt me. And I don't see what matches I want to bring her in for.
Sorry for the Double post, someone had asked for my list yesterday and I didn't have time to type it up until now. I would post my sideboard but I am retooling it right now as my meta just had a huge jump with around 4 people hopping on various flavors of Death's Shadow and a couple of new Abzan Midrange and Blue Moon decks showing up. But it will most likely be some number of Angers, Relics, Obstinate Baloths, Nature's Claims, and maybe some fogs. And then my usual Inferno Titan, and possibly another abrupt decay or some other things. I am highly considering a Reclamation Sage in the board to capitalize on Summoner's Pact to give myself even more outs to blood moon. It is only one slot in the board but effectively gets 3 copies when brought in. That type of thinking may be because of playing a lot of CoCo elves and having silver bullet sideboards though.
I am trying to find room in the mainboard for one Sweltering Suns. It is a concession to the fact that there are 5 merfolk decks running around my shop, 2 elves decks, and even blue moon and skred often run momma and poppa Nalaar. Plus the cycling means it's not dead against the similar numbers of Death's Shadow and tron etc. I would probably be running angers instead of decays mainboard because of the split in my shop except that the winning records tend to be the decks where I really need decay. So I just have to beat an aggro deck round one with 3 sideboard Anger and then I often don't need them again that night. So 3-4 matches make me want Decays maindeck, and it's still not dead against aggro anyway.
Won 2-1 vs RG Tron
Won 2-0 vs Jeskai Control
Lost 1-2 vs Abzan Shadow
Won 2-0 vs Affinity
I had won G1 against Shadow, G2 I needed to draw only a kill condition to win, but drew 3 lands in a row and died to some Goyfs. G3 mull to 6 with a hand that would be really good if I drew a green source. Took too long for it to come and I couldn't get into the game anymore.
If your six has no green source, I think you have to mull even if it's the nuts. 1/3 of your remaining cards on a mull to 6 with 0 green sources are going to be green sources. So, against a deck with Deaths Shadow I don't think you can keep that. They establish too fast of a clock. If it had been traditional abzan, or maybe UW control, or elves and you had 3 red sources and an Anger then maybe. But I think you should have gone to 5. I will personally go to five before I keep a sketchy hand. I won't really go lower unless its game 3 or I'm down a game in game 2, but I don't feel bad about 5
If your six has no green source, I think you have to mull even if it's the nuts. 1/3 of your remaining cards on a mull to 6 with 0 green sources are going to be green sources. So, against a deck with Deaths Shadow I don't think you can keep that. They establish too fast of a clock. If it had been traditional abzan, or maybe UW control, or elves and you had 3 red sources and an Anger then maybe. But I think you should have gone to 5. I will personally go to five before I keep a sketchy hand. I won't really go lower unless its game 3 or I'm down a game in game 2, but I don't feel bad about 5
Yeah, I thought a lot about keeping or mulling and should have shipped it back.
He didn't have a fast hand, but had turn 3 Liliana and that won him the game. Also, on both matches post sideboard, he had Decay/Brutality to take out my Hornet Nest leaving no tokens behind. That's harsh =[
It's hard to win against a Lili when they also have removal for your threat. Bad luck, sorry.
Yeah.
At least the Shadow player was my friend (only lost to 2 friends on the last 2 weeklys, so...) and I got to win my last one and get some store credit.
I'm always a fan of grabbing some store credit off of a winning record. I completely punted my round 2 match last week (summoner's pact trigger........) but was able to scrape our 3-1 for $9 in store credit. Better than nothing.
Edit: On a different topic, fetchland choice. Obviously in a 2 color build, green fetches 5-7 don't matter that much. We generally see windswept heath as it is the cheapest and easiest to get given it's recent printings and lack of use comparatively to others. However, in a build splashing blue or black, it is not quite as optimal as Catacombs or Misty. I wish I had 3 catacombs, but I actually haven't felt it to be super necessary yet. Sure I have had to take 2 points off an Overgrown tomb that I could have saved by being able to get basic swamp, but I have found it to not be super hard to make the mana work. By fetching a second basic forest on turn 2 to cast my STE or Farseek to get basic swamp, or having an SFT get it, it hasn't been a huge issue. The times that I find myself shocking for Tomb most often are when I would do it anyway, do it turn one to suspend a search and be able to push something and play a tap land the next turn. What are the thoughts of people who have tried any of the splashes not just black for running the 'optimal' fetches?
I checked and my list didn't get posted to the MTG website. I did play DS Jund in that span, and the MD relics and Prismatic Omens helped a lot (basically won it for me). I used the cycling on Sweltering Sun way more than I though I would, and having (3):Draw a Card was super helpful in a handful of games where an Anger would have otherwise been dead (then there was one game where an Anger would have been better and I didn't have Relic at that moment).
I haven't gotten much facetime with Hornet Nest yet. Its been in my SB for the past few weeks, but the right situation to use it just hasn't come up (I'll bring it in for DS and Eldrazi).
Might play something similar to this at the classic on Sunday. I'm going to test some more leading up to then. If anyone else does and can offer some input, let me know before Sunday.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
So your build runs this for ramp:
4 Search
4 STE
2 Farseek
2 KHE
0 Explore?
If so, that's only 10 ramp cards compared to the "normal" 14 (4 Search, 4 STE, 4 Explore, 2 Farseek).
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Decks from mid-2015 to now with Prismatic Omen
Decks from mid-2015 to now without Prismatic Omen
Decks from mid-2015 to now without Omen or KHE
As you can see, there are plenty of examples for all 3 configurations (including mtgo lists). If you want to narrow down the time window, the search function is easy to use. To me, the question isn't "which one is better" but "which one in which meta". Omen also suits some people's play-styles better.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
That is sort of exactly what we were discussing the merits of omen in a 3 color list I think it fixes the mana enough to make it less annoying, however I don't want to play omen so I stick to RG and play KHE. Don't get me wrong all I tested Jund without omen and I didn't like the mana, I for sure want to be playing fatal push atm instead of bolt though, I am just expressing my tests with the lists.
3 Windswept heaths
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Cinder Glades
3 Stomping Grounds
7 Mountain
3 Forest
3 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Creature
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura Tribe Elders
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Explore
3 khalni Heart Expedition
2 Farseek
2 Summoner's Pact
4 Scapeshift
3 Lightning Bolts
2 Anger of the gods
4 Search for tomorrow
1 Fog
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Fog
1 Nature's Claim
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Anger of the gods
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Thrun the Last Troll
2 Crumble to Dust
The last list I piloted at a tourney for reference. I am sure I can cut the fogs and what not and I am tempted to play a primal command somewhere maybe 2.
I'm hoping that it ups the consistency of my game 1, while still being able to sideboard in answers.
Good luck! I've been having good success online with this list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/618019#online
Primal Command has been OK but not great. On paper, it seems like it sound be fantastic. But most of the time it is just very slow...
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/627338#paper
This is the list I'm sleeving up tonight. I think it might be a tad heavy on ramp but with both Chandra and Courser I'm hoping the draws are smooth. As for the sideboard there is no burn in my meta, and people LOVE playing midrange because it makes them feel like better magic players, so that's what I focused my board on.
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
I'd be more inclined to use her if her +1 didn't open my lands up to being removed, especially with Fatal Push being the removal spell of choice in Modern now.
She defends herself with +1 and can win the game the following turn. She can also add pressure or rebuy discarded titans, sacced/destroyed Expeditions and Elders/Fetchlands. It's a great tool to grind, but seems slower than Primal Command or at the same level of speed (although you use them differently). Seems good in a traditional BGx/Tron metagame. Not so sure about her in the current Dredge + Death's Shadow + Affinity + Burn meta.
Yes, her protecting herself makes her a good planeswalker. But the fact that doing so let's people kill our most important resource that is otherwise hard to hit makes her bad. The last thing I want to do is turn on my opponents Fatal Pushes and let them actually interrupt me. And I don't see what matches I want to bring her in for.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
4 Scapeshift
4 Primeval Titan
2 Summoner's Pact
Ramp
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Explore
2 Farseek
2 Khalni Heart Expedition
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
Utility
2 Courser of Kruphix
Lands
5 Mountain
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Cinder Glade
3 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Swamp
Sorry for the Double post, someone had asked for my list yesterday and I didn't have time to type it up until now. I would post my sideboard but I am retooling it right now as my meta just had a huge jump with around 4 people hopping on various flavors of Death's Shadow and a couple of new Abzan Midrange and Blue Moon decks showing up. But it will most likely be some number of Angers, Relics, Obstinate Baloths, Nature's Claims, and maybe some fogs. And then my usual Inferno Titan, and possibly another abrupt decay or some other things. I am highly considering a Reclamation Sage in the board to capitalize on Summoner's Pact to give myself even more outs to blood moon. It is only one slot in the board but effectively gets 3 copies when brought in. That type of thinking may be because of playing a lot of CoCo elves and having silver bullet sideboards though.
I am trying to find room in the mainboard for one Sweltering Suns. It is a concession to the fact that there are 5 merfolk decks running around my shop, 2 elves decks, and even blue moon and skred often run momma and poppa Nalaar. Plus the cycling means it's not dead against the similar numbers of Death's Shadow and tron etc. I would probably be running angers instead of decays mainboard because of the split in my shop except that the winning records tend to be the decks where I really need decay. So I just have to beat an aggro deck round one with 3 sideboard Anger and then I often don't need them again that night. So 3-4 matches make me want Decays maindeck, and it's still not dead against aggro anyway.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Stomping Ground
2 Cinder Glade
7 Mountain
3 Forest
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Primeval Titan
2 Summoner's Pact
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Explore
2 Farseek
3 Khalni-Heart Expedition
4 Scapeshift
2 Primal Command
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Hornet Nest
3 Nature's Claim
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Crumble to Dust
Won 2-1 vs RG Tron
Won 2-0 vs Jeskai Control
Lost 1-2 vs Abzan Shadow
Won 2-0 vs Affinity
I had won G1 against Shadow, G2 I needed to draw only a kill condition to win, but drew 3 lands in a row and died to some Goyfs. G3 mull to 6 with a hand that would be really good if I drew a green source. Took too long for it to come and I couldn't get into the game anymore.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Yeah, I thought a lot about keeping or mulling and should have shipped it back.
He didn't have a fast hand, but had turn 3 Liliana and that won him the game. Also, on both matches post sideboard, he had Decay/Brutality to take out my Hornet Nest leaving no tokens behind. That's harsh =[
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Yeah.
At least the Shadow player was my friend (only lost to 2 friends on the last 2 weeklys, so...) and I got to win my last one and get some store credit.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Edit: On a different topic, fetchland choice. Obviously in a 2 color build, green fetches 5-7 don't matter that much. We generally see windswept heath as it is the cheapest and easiest to get given it's recent printings and lack of use comparatively to others. However, in a build splashing blue or black, it is not quite as optimal as Catacombs or Misty. I wish I had 3 catacombs, but I actually haven't felt it to be super necessary yet. Sure I have had to take 2 points off an Overgrown tomb that I could have saved by being able to get basic swamp, but I have found it to not be super hard to make the mana work. By fetching a second basic forest on turn 2 to cast my STE or Farseek to get basic swamp, or having an SFT get it, it hasn't been a huge issue. The times that I find myself shocking for Tomb most often are when I would do it anyway, do it turn one to suspend a search and be able to push something and play a tap land the next turn. What are the thoughts of people who have tried any of the splashes not just black for running the 'optimal' fetches?
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Primeval Titan
Lands
4 Valakut
7 Mountains
3 Forest
3 Stomping Ground
3 Cinder Glade
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scapeshift
2 Summoner Pact
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Prismatic Omen
3 Sweltering Sun
3 Explore
2 Farseek
2 Primal Command
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Tireless Tracker
2 Nature's Claim
2 Sudden Shock
1 Hornet Nest
1 Ancient Grudge
I checked and my list didn't get posted to the MTG website. I did play DS Jund in that span, and the MD relics and Prismatic Omens helped a lot (basically won it for me). I used the cycling on Sweltering Sun way more than I though I would, and having (3):Draw a Card was super helpful in a handful of games where an Anger would have otherwise been dead (then there was one game where an Anger would have been better and I didn't have Relic at that moment).
I haven't gotten much facetime with Hornet Nest yet. Its been in my SB for the past few weeks, but the right situation to use it just hasn't come up (I'll bring it in for DS and Eldrazi).
Might play something similar to this at the classic on Sunday. I'm going to test some more leading up to then. If anyone else does and can offer some input, let me know before Sunday.
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift