Judging form the decks you went against, there must be alot of times where you>
T1 goblin guide
T2 Eidolon > opponent turn 2 tarmogoy 3/4 or 4/5
or
T1 opponent lay fetch
T1 goblin guide
T2 opponent land+cast tarmogoyf
You have eidolon in hand
Can i ask you what did you do during this games?
I did lose a game to a Goyf that I two-for-oned (had to block and bolt) and then lost steam. Two-for-one on a goyf is one of the worst ways to lose a game. PtE post-SB is an answer to Goyfs and other fatties. Sometimes if you draw into alot of creatures, you might want to keep putting pressure on the board and forcing them to hold back the goyf to chump. If they are on the defensive you can draw into burn and Atarka's command to get the team through.
I also recall a game where I deliberately kept a gofy small by NOT firing off any burn spells until I got it off the board (either with a bolt or Blaze). Often, if an opponents drops a goyf T2, there might only be a fetch land in both graveyards.
What I like about the Naya Nacatl build is that it oftens functions as a Burn deck and sometimes it can completely change gears and take on the aggro Zoo role.
I've been putting in a lot of playtesting and events, and this is the 75 I'm running. I've essentially switched to Boros Burn with green for Destructive Revelry. So far I haven't felt more confident about any other build given the current meta:
- I have completely fallen out of favor of Atarka's Command. Most of the time, it's not better than Skullcrack, except it requires you to fetch for your third color. If you try to also apply this theory to boosting our creatures, typically we only ink out an extra point of damage with it, making it roughly a Boros Charm. While this may totally seem worth it in the ideology of burn, I don't enjoy the idea of take 2-3 damage just for an extra one in a meta loaded with aggressive decks. Wild Nacatl does give more incentive to run it, but since I'm not running Nacatl's, I don't want it.
- I hate Wild Nacatl. To me, any card that's a bad top deck to close out the game doesn't belong in this deck, and not having haste just makes it an easy bolt target.
- Lightning Helix is very strong right now. It's always satisfying to have 15+ life when you've run out of cards and are trying to topdeck your opponent to death. Not running Atarka's just makes choosing to fetch white when you need it a much easier play.
- Skullcrack to me has become a "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" problem. Many decks have little to no maindeck lifegain, and those that bring them in post-board just meet our additional Skullcracks in turn. As such, I feel a 2-2 split is optimal.
- Clifftop is cute tech I stole from GP Pittsburgh. I feel this slot can also be a basic mountain or another fetch just as easily. Go with your heart. Only downside is you'll have the super rare one lander you can't keep because that one land is Clifftop. Use what you prefer.
- I love the sideboard as is, and the only thing I'd potentially change is a 4th Path over the Lightning Helix depending on the meta. Path is just incredible right now, dealing with Goyf, Tasigur, Wurmcoil, Master of Waves, Titan and Griselbrand, all of which are seeing decent to heavy play right now, and with the extra time Helix and an eaier mana-base affords us, it doesn't devastate our tight burn suite as it does when games are closer. It also works well against Twin, and has been strong enough I haven't felt the need for Rending Volly. Granted if they are able to play Twin and have counter magic up, you're probably losing that game anyway.
- I don't think any current 3 mana spells are worth the investment. Molten Rain only shores up already good matchups and only works on the play. Volcanic Fallout isn't needed thanks to our lifegain and less painful manabase, and Exquisite Firecraft just feel too narrow.
I'm on the same camp, Atarka's Command and Nacatl have done notthing but lose me matches vs Affinity, Zoo and Merfolk but everyone that places has the amazing luck of not facing these on the draw so it keeps looking like Nacatl Burn is the objectively best deck.
I'm on the same camp, Atarka's Command and Nacatl have done notthing but lose me matches vs Affinity, Zoo and Merfolk but everyone that places has the amazing luck of not facing these on the draw so it keeps looking like Nacatl Burn is the objectively best deck.
Genuine question: What 8 cards do you run in lieu of 4x Command and 4x Nacatls that helps you win Affinity, Zoo and Fish matchups? And why?
I run 20 Lands, 12 creatures and 4 Bolt, 4 Spike, 4 Rift, 4 Blaze, 4 Charm, 4 Skullcrack, 2 Helix, 2 Volley.
And see a constant average life difference of 5 life lost in these matches between Boros and Nacatl.
I run 20 Lands, 12 creatures and 4 Bolt, 4 Spike, 4 Rift, 4 Blaze, 4 Charm, 4 Skullcrack, 2 Helix, 2 Volley.
And see a constant average life difference of 5 life lost in these matches between Boros and Nacatl.
Considering the land difference is only really 2 points (Most Burn plays result in being at 16 life for Boros, and 14 life for Nacatl lists), the other 3 has to come from always having Lightning Helix.
If I could consistently draw a 2-of whenever I wanted to, I wouldn't be playing Burn.
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Eternal Masters 2015 Legacy Champion. Has an unnatural love towards perfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.
No idea what the meta will be. Counting on a good deal of Aggro. I love 2 skullcracks+4 command in the main for lifegain hate. Would like to be able to see at least 1 Helix per game. So much affinity, so I added a single Smash to smithereens to be a 5th Revelry
3 Kor Firewalker--I love him against burn and grixis, and with G/R tron exploding, he seems good. That said, he isn't really needed against GR tron.
Thoughts??
I had had 2 Rending Volley for twin, but I usually get by on twin. And path/revelry hits it.
I've been putting in a lot of playtesting and events, and this is the 75 I'm running. I've essentially switched to Boros Burn with green for Destructive Revelry. So far I haven't felt more confident about any other build given the current meta:
G/R tron is exploding in popularity, and with Kozilek's return--Atarka to save your army is a nice play.
I'm guessing K's return finds it's way into several decks.
Sure, if they cast an eldrazi, you're wiped. But if you've a guide and spear, you get in for 6 combat instead of 0, save your dudes, burn face.
Yes it costs 1 more than Pyroclasm, but at instant speed, I think we'll see a lot of it. Almost curious about trying it against Elves/Merfolk myself.
In a Burn deck, I like Volcanic Fallout over Kozilek's Return, because I think "can't be countered" will be more relevant than getting around pro-red, though it is relevant against Merfolk. VF can kill all of the Master's tokens and they're just left with a 2/1. KR kills the Master too, but they may counter it. The double red is obviously irrelevant for us. Getting 2 to the face alongside the Pyroclasm isn't irrelevant, either.
I think G/R Tron is the more likely spot for KR, because 2R isn't hard for them to cast.
Also, Boros Charm is better at saving your army than Atarka's Command is.
Even if they cast a big guy, and exilw k's return, a boros charm can save your army if it was really needed. Hopefully though, by the time they get to that point, they are done for.
I mean, if you haven't won by the time Tron gets around to casting a big fatty, you were screwed anyway. You should have gotten as much use out of your creatures as you possibly can before Tron gets to that point, and then you can finish them off with Burn.
In a Burn deck, I like Volcanic Fallout over Kozilek's Return, because I think "can't be countered" will be more relevant than getting around pro-red, though it is relevant against Merfolk. VF can kill all of the Master's tokens and they're just left with a 2/1. KR kills the Master too, but they may counter it. The double red is obviously irrelevant for us. Getting 2 to the face alongside the Pyroclasm isn't irrelevant, either.
I think G/R Tron is the more likely spot for KR, because 2R isn't hard for them to cast.
Also, Boros Charm is better at saving your army than Atarka's Command is.
But you're not taking out Boros charm for Atarka's command. Atarka's Command replaces others. It's a utility card. Probably 70% of the time, it's a skullcrack. 29% of the other's it's to anthem out for the win. But, if the opponent is doing a damage based board wipe on your turn--you keep 2 creatures alive and get in for 6 instead of 0. Yes, you can absolutely Boros charm. But Boros Charm and Atarka's aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm on the same camp, Atarka's Command and Nacatl have done notthing but lose me matches vs Affinity, Zoo and Merfolk but everyone that places has the amazing luck of not facing these on the draw so it keeps looking like Nacatl Burn is the objectively best deck.
Interesting - I like Nacatl burn BECAUSE of the Robots and Merfolk MUs since having more repeatable sources of damage while controlling the prime treats seems like prime game.
Also Atarka's Reach ability is huge against Infect and Robots.
Also Atarka's Reach ability is huge against Infect and Robots.
It is really an element of surprise sometimes. You could just imagine your opponent's face when you cast the command and block their flyier. The Reach ability is usually forgotten, since players are more focused on the +1/+1 boost.
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Modern Decks:WRGThe Colors of FireGRW || CUBRAge of Ultron (Affinity - Under Construction)RBUC
Reach has come in handy in that MU for me a few times, so it isn't Christmas land. For example, I've blocked a Plated up Vault Skirge with a pump and lifegain prevent. Traded off my guy for the Skirge and put myself in a good position which otherwise was hopeless with only Skullcrack.
Nacatl on the other hand has been awkward vs aggro in my experience. Mostly because it wants you to front load your splash lands, which is a lot more damage generally. In other words, regular Naya can postpone fetching for a splash color until 3rd land and get it in tapped. This makes the additional color marginally more damaging. The Cat wants you to fetch shock T1 and T2.
Reach has come in handy in that MU for me a few times, so it isn't Christmas land. For example, I've blocked a Plated up Vault Skirge with a pump and lifegain prevent. Traded off my guy for the Skirge and put myself in a good position which otherwise was hopeless with only Skullcrack.
Nacatl on the other hand has been awkward vs aggro in my experience. Mostly because it wants you to front load your splash lands, which is a lot more damage generally. In other words, regular Naya can postpone fetching for a splash color until 3rd land and get it in tapped. This makes the additional color marginally more damaging. The Cat wants you to fetch shock T1 and T2.
I think its important to understand your role during the aggro MU - while yes the cat wants you to fetch shock T1 and T2 for optimal damage you don't actually HAVE to fetch T1 and T2 and just play it out later.
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I've honestly never noticed the reach. There have been a few restoration angel beats I could have stopped lol
I remembered trading my swiftspear against a resto angel attack using the command and my opponent was really shocked when he stared at my Atarka's Command for a while in his hand.
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The putting land into play ability is underrated as well - its quite useful for dropping your hand down really quickly against combo or discard based decks (or even for fetching that extra W earlier EoT rather then paying 3 life for fetch and shock).
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Reach has come in handy in that MU for me a few times, so it isn't Christmas land. For example, I've blocked a Plated up Vault Skirge with a pump and lifegain prevent. Traded off my guy for the Skirge and put myself in a good position which otherwise was hopeless with only Skullcrack.
Nacatl on the other hand has been awkward vs aggro in my experience. Mostly because it wants you to front load your splash lands, which is a lot more damage generally. In other words, regular Naya can postpone fetching for a splash color until 3rd land and get it in tapped. This makes the additional color marginally more damaging. The Cat wants you to fetch shock T1 and T2.
I think its important to understand your role during the aggro MU - while yes the cat wants you to fetch shock T1 and T2 for optimal damage you don't actually HAVE to fetch T1 and T2 and just play it out later.
I understand that. But that doesn't change the fact that I now have a card in my deck that cannot properly be deployed when we are not the aggressor. Sure, I can postpone it, or bring in lands tapped, etc, but that sort of proves my point that it's awkward in those matchups.
I did lose a game to a Goyf that I two-for-oned (had to block and bolt) and then lost steam. Two-for-one on a goyf is one of the worst ways to lose a game. PtE post-SB is an answer to Goyfs and other fatties. Sometimes if you draw into alot of creatures, you might want to keep putting pressure on the board and forcing them to hold back the goyf to chump. If they are on the defensive you can draw into burn and Atarka's command to get the team through.
I also recall a game where I deliberately kept a gofy small by NOT firing off any burn spells until I got it off the board (either with a bolt or Blaze). Often, if an opponents drops a goyf T2, there might only be a fetch land in both graveyards.
What I like about the Naya Nacatl build is that it oftens functions as a Burn deck and sometimes it can completely change gears and take on the aggro Zoo role.
Keep burning!
I'm on the same camp, Atarka's Command and Nacatl have done notthing but lose me matches vs Affinity, Zoo and Merfolk but everyone that places has the amazing luck of not facing these on the draw so it keeps looking like Nacatl Burn is the objectively best deck.
This list placed at an SCG IQ. Better than Naya Burn or just an a confused Zoo deck.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97623
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells (18)
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Mutagenic Growth
2 Searing Blaze
2 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Deflecting Palm
3 Destructive Revelry
2 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
2 Skullcrack
Genuine question: What 8 cards do you run in lieu of 4x Command and 4x Nacatls that helps you win Affinity, Zoo and Fish matchups? And why?
And see a constant average life difference of 5 life lost in these matches between Boros and Nacatl.
If I could consistently draw a 2-of whenever I wanted to, I wouldn't be playing Burn.
an unnatural love towardsperfectly reasonable respect for Lightning Bolt.The Kiwi third of The Salt Mine Podcast: An Australian Legacy Podcast
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swift Spear
4 Eidolon of the Great revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Boros Charm
4 Atarka's command
3 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
2 Lightning Helix
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Mountain
4 Destructive Revelry
4 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
1 Searing Blaze
1 Smash to Smithereens
3 Kor Firewalker
No idea what the meta will be. Counting on a good deal of Aggro. I love 2 skullcracks+4 command in the main for lifegain hate. Would like to be able to see at least 1 Helix per game. So much affinity, so I added a single Smash to smithereens to be a 5th Revelry
3 Kor Firewalker--I love him against burn and grixis, and with G/R tron exploding, he seems good. That said, he isn't really needed against GR tron.
Thoughts??
I had had 2 Rending Volley for twin, but I usually get by on twin. And path/revelry hits it.
G/R tron is exploding in popularity, and with Kozilek's return--Atarka to save your army is a nice play.
I'm guessing K's return finds it's way into several decks.
Sure, if they cast an eldrazi, you're wiped. But if you've a guide and spear, you get in for 6 combat instead of 0, save your dudes, burn face.
Yes it costs 1 more than Pyroclasm, but at instant speed, I think we'll see a lot of it. Almost curious about trying it against Elves/Merfolk myself.
I think G/R Tron is the more likely spot for KR, because 2R isn't hard for them to cast.
Also, Boros Charm is better at saving your army than Atarka's Command is.
But you're not taking out Boros charm for Atarka's command. Atarka's Command replaces others. It's a utility card. Probably 70% of the time, it's a skullcrack. 29% of the other's it's to anthem out for the win. But, if the opponent is doing a damage based board wipe on your turn--you keep 2 creatures alive and get in for 6 instead of 0. Yes, you can absolutely Boros charm. But Boros Charm and Atarka's aren't mutually exclusive.
Interesting - I like Nacatl burn BECAUSE of the Robots and Merfolk MUs since having more repeatable sources of damage while controlling the prime treats seems like prime game.
Also Atarka's Reach ability is huge against Infect and Robots.
Lots of examples in this playlist
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It is really an element of surprise sometimes. You could just imagine your opponent's face when you cast the command and block their flyier. The Reach ability is usually forgotten, since players are more focused on the +1/+1 boost.
Nacatl on the other hand has been awkward vs aggro in my experience. Mostly because it wants you to front load your splash lands, which is a lot more damage generally. In other words, regular Naya can postpone fetching for a splash color until 3rd land and get it in tapped. This makes the additional color marginally more damaging. The Cat wants you to fetch shock T1 and T2.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I think its important to understand your role during the aggro MU - while yes the cat wants you to fetch shock T1 and T2 for optimal damage you don't actually HAVE to fetch T1 and T2 and just play it out later.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
I remembered trading my swiftspear against a resto angel attack using the command and my opponent was really shocked when he stared at my Atarka's Command for a while in his hand.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
I understand that. But that doesn't change the fact that I now have a card in my deck that cannot properly be deployed when we are not the aggressor. Sure, I can postpone it, or bring in lands tapped, etc, but that sort of proves my point that it's awkward in those matchups.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)