I swapped to 19 lands about a month ago and have been feeling fine so far. Although I don't play any 3-cmc cards, so it's worth considering 20 lands if you do.
I don't like Nacatl, it feels clunky. It felt that on every turn of the game except turn 1 it was terrible, and playing without it lets you be way more versatile (doing damage at instant speed is harder to handle for many more decks than a vanilla 3/3)
I love 2 Grim Lavamancer because in some matchups you really, really want to see him. He's also an easy sideboard out against creature light decks.
Might as well jump in on this. I run 18 land but im mono-red so that means I don't need to pack in dual lands and fetches.
One thing I will say is that 20 land is the number to average 2 damage per card in a 40 bolt deck, Ala the philosophy of fire. Because we can't actualy run 40 bolts and must settle for some less efficient cards, going over 20 land can seriously harm your average damage per card. On the other hand cutting down to 18 or even 17 land can significantly improve your average, although it will slightly decrease consistency.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
I just made the switch to 19 from 20 and honestly havnt noticed a difference. It's well worth it.
On another note, I have been having a tough time against Eldrazi & Taxes (BW Death & Taxes). What advice can you guys give me on how to improve that match up?
My fellow burn enthusiasts. It's been awhile since I have played and I have a question. How does everyone feel about Lightning Helix in the main and side? I know a year ago we ran 3-4 but it seems people have cut one Helix and one Blaze so we can play two cracks main board. Is there any reason to run 2 helix main and 2 helix side? Or is would other cards in the side be more beneficial?
Out of boredom, I've decided to make this short list of "Interactions all burn players should be aware of." Feel free to suggest any, as these are just the ones I can think of. Hopefully this will work as quick reference or to educate newer players:
Your opponent can let Goblin Guide's trigger resolve, and then remove it before damage.
Multiple Goblin Guide triggers resolve one at a time. If the top card is a non-land, do not reveal anymore cards.
Volcanic Fallout does not kill your own Monastery Swiftspears
Eidolon of the Great Revel makes Tarmogoyfs even bigger due to being an enchantment.
Eidolon triggers resolve before the cards that are cast. You cannot gain life from 3-cmc or less cards if you are at 2 with an Eidolon in play.
Grim Lavamancer targets are relevant against decks that interact with your graveyard. (Goyf, Scavenging Ooze, ect.)
Atarka's Command gets around Leyline of Sanctity. So does Searing Blood.
If you resolve a Skullcrack before a Deflecting Palm, the Palm will fizzle.
Protection from red creatures can die during combat if you Skullcrack your opponent before damage
Fetches and Atarka's Command can trigger landfall on your opponents turn, which allows full use of Searing Blaze.
Spellskite can only successfully redirect burn spells that can also target creatures or artifacts.
If your opponent removes their creature in response to it being targeted by Searing Blaze, they still take 1 or 3 damage.
Processor cards can target your suspended Rift Bolts, neutralizing them.
Deflecting Palming a creature with double strike will only prevent its first instance of damage.
Out of boredom, I've decided to make this short list of "Interactions all burn players should be aware of." Feel free to suggest any, as these are just the ones I can think of. Hopefully this will work as quick reference or to educate newer players:
Your opponent can let Goblin Guide's trigger resolve, and then remove it before damage.
Multiple Goblin Guide triggers resolve one at a time. If the top card is a non-land, do not reveal anymore cards.
Volcanic Fallout does not kill your own Monastery Swiftspears
Eidolon of the Great Revel makes Tarmogoyfs even bigger due to being an enchantment.
Eidolon triggers resolve before the cards that are cast. You cannot gain life from 3-cmc or less cards if you are at 2 with an Eidolon in play.
Grim Lavamancer targets are relevant against decks that interact with your graveyard. (Goyf, Scavenging Ooze, ect.)
Atarka's Command gets around Leyline of Sanctity. So does Searing Blood.
If you resolve a Skullcrack before a Deflecting Palm, the Palm will fizzle.
Protection from red creatures can die during combat if you Skullcrack your opponent before damage
Fetches and Atarka's Command can trigger landfall on your opponents turn, which allows full use of Searing Blaze.
Spellskite can only successfully redirect burn spells that can also target creatures or artifacts.
If your opponent removes their creature in response to it being targeted by Searing Blaze, they still take 1 or 3 damage.
Processor cards can target your suspended Rift Bolts, neutralizing them.
Deflecting Palming a creature with double strike will only prevent its first instance of damage.
Thanks for the write up. As a beginning burn player it is very handy.
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Legacy - Reanimator
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
Relatively new burn player, also play Merfolk and Affinity in modern. Went 2-2 last night at a local event. Beat Jund and Tron, lost to Hexproof and a white weenie Kithkin deck that had main deck lifelink and pro-red creatures. I'm pretty happy with the main deck, but I know the Sideboard needs work.
There are not very many degenerate combo decks locally like Grisleshoal or Storm, but other common decks in the format like Merfolk, Affinity, Grixis, CoCo variants, Jund, and Tron are all usually there every week. Any SB advice would be appreciated, I was thinking about trying to find room for Ensnaring Bridge in the SB, but with the Eldrazi decks neutered that is probably the tempo/control Merfolk player in me speaking up and a mistake. I also think Pyroclasm-like effects might need to be included.
The other take away from last night is that I feel I need to learn how to use Eidolon of the Great Revel better as it put more pressure on me than my opponent in a few games, and one time locked me out of casting any spells.
Relatively new burn player, also play Merfolk and Affinity in modern. Went 2-2 last night at a local event. Beat Jund and Tron, lost to Hexproof and a white weenie Kithkin deck that had main deck lifelink and pro-red creatures. I'm pretty happy with the main deck, but I know the Sideboard needs work.
There are not very many degenerate combo lacks locally like Grisleshoal or Storm, but other common decks in the format like Merfolk, Affinity, Grixis, CoCo variants, Jund, and Tron are all usually there every week. Any SB advice would be appreciated, I was thinking about trying to find room for Ensnaring Bridge in the SB, but with the Eldrazi decks neutered that is probably the tempo/control Merfolk player in me speaking up and a mistake. I also think Pyroclasm-like effects might need to be included.
The other take away from last night is that I feel I need to learn how to use Eidolon of the Great Revel better as it put more pressure on me than my opponent in a few games, and one time locked me out of casting any spells.
I feal for you, losing to that Kithkin deck. My own meta has Kithkin, Knights, and Soul Sisters running around.
As far as sweepers there's 4 real options. I was thinking about outlining their strengths and weaknesses a while ago so I'll just do it here.
Pyroclasm
The basic sweeper. No special features but only 2 mana which is nice.
Volcanic Fallout
You get a ton of upside vs 'Clasm for the one extra mana you spend. Instant Speed is great, and uncountable is good with Blue comming back thanks to Visions. The biggest thing though for me is the 2 damage to players. D-Rev, Smash to Smithereens, Seeing Blaze, and Seeing Blood are all considered very powerful cards as they are removal that also goes to the face. Basicly a 2 for one. Fallout does the same thing while also getting around counters and leyline, and it dosnt even need a target.
Anger of the Gods
The big sweeper giving 3 damage for 3 mana. It also exiles whatever it kills putting down kitchen finks perminently. It's only sorcery speed however. Whether the extra damage and exile outweigh the benefits of the other sweepers is meta dependent and honestly a mater of preference.
Kozilek's Return
The newest adition to the Pyroclasm Effect family. While we can't use the Eldrazi triger on it a instant speed 'Clasm that kills pro red things is very attactive. Kor Firewalker, Arion Champion, Master of Waves, and Etched Champion all die to this guy. If these things are running rampant in your meta this is definately something to try out. If you do please let us know how it goes as people are just starting to test this thing out.
All in all which sweeper to bring and how many (if any at all) is a personal choice for your meta, but there are a number of options out there. Lots of people love Anger. I personaly prefer Fallout.
I'm sure this was brought up earlier, but what about adding delver and thing in the ice instead of nacatl and atarkas command?
That's interesting. Delver dosnt have haste and is probably even less consistent than the Cat, but thing in the Ice is possibly something to look at.
On the whole though D-Rev alone almost mandates the third color be green. If you try this though I would be very interested. Jeskai burn hasn't been a thing in a while.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
Hey guys, I am a new member to the burn family(Goblin Guides are on the way, woop!), and would like some advice on my sideboard. I really appreciate all the things you guys do here, and any extra help would be greatly appreciated! TCGPlayer States is next weekend, so I'm trying to make my deck is competitive as possible. I have about $15 extra, so the card(s) must be less than that. Currently, my sideboard is:
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Path to Exile
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Searing Blaze(other 3 in main)
1 ???
I'm wondering if the one last card needs to be another Cage, as it helps in the Abzan Company matchup. I was also thinking a Pillar of Flame? Any other ideas? I will be taking notes during the tournament, so I shall hopefully have a decent tournament report for you all of you lovely people next Sunday! Thanks in advance for the help!
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How I like to win games:
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Hey guys, I am a new member to the burn family(Goblin Guides are on the way, woop!), and would like some advice on my sideboard. I really appreciate all the things you guys do here, and any extra help would be greatly appreciated! TCGPlayer States is next weekend, so I'm trying to make my deck is competitive as possible. I have about $15 extra, so the card(s) must be less than that. Currently, my sideboard is:
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Path to Exile
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Searing Blaze(other 3 in main)
1 ???
I'm wondering if the one last card needs to be another Cage, as it helps in the Abzan Company matchup. I was also thinking a Pillar of Flame? Any other ideas? I will be taking notes during the tournament, so I shall hopefully have a decent tournament report for you all of you lovely people next Sunday! Thanks in advance for the help!
never hurts to have another Skullcrack
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
Are you sure about Shatterstorm? it's a 4CMC card and you're playing only 18 lands. We barely play a 3cmc in our sideboards (Molten Rain most of the time) So you'd better consider this.
I'm sure this was brought up earlier, but what about adding delver and thing in the ice instead of nacatl and atarkas command?
If you are going blue; I feel like Stormchaser Mage would be better than titi; haste makes its a better top deck; evasion is great; and prowess works pretty well with the deck
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"What's your plan?" Gideon asked.
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Yeah, pass on Shatterstorm. If you really need X-for-1 artifact destruction (and I don't think you do), run Shattering Spree instead.
I agree, there are only two realy "artifact centric" decks even remotely in the meta right now, lantern and Affinity. While it would basicly be game over to land shatterstorm against them it isn't realy necisary. Both those decks rely on a few critical peices without which the rest of their stuff dosnt do much.
Signal pest is remarkably weak by himself, as are ornithopter, memnite, spring Leif drum, even a lone inkmoth isn't scary as a 1/1. Blowing up a few of affinity's payoff cards with Shattering Spree is alot cheaper and easier than hoping you hit the 4 land you need for Shatterstorm. Same goes for lantern, plus they tend to pack welding jar so I believe (may be wrong) you can spam copies of Spree at critical things like Ensnaring Bridge and ensure a kill.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
I understand why Copperline Gorge is in the deck, but as there is no W/R "fast land" what about a single copy of Clifftop Retreat? Starting every game with 14 life is getting old with a fetch and shock on every single turn 1 and 2 to get all 3 colours of mana
Almost any 2 land hand will allow this to be a pain-free shockland. Obviously it is not good in a 1 land hand, but are we not mulliganing MOST hands with fewer than 2 lands anyway?
I am also wondering about the Ensnaring Bridge idea. I am guessing that, unless some kind of heavy boggles/elves/etc meta exists, then it is probably a bad idea and not what this deck is looking for.
A question for the burn experts here.
What is the preferred number of Destructive Revelry and Kor Firewalker?
I am currently running 4 and 3. Many of the lists are running 3 and 2 respectively. Dropping one of each allows me to run 2 more Skullcrack in the Side, or at the very least, two spots open. How important is the one extra card?
I swapped to 19 lands about a month ago and have been feeling fine so far. Although I don't play any 3-cmc cards, so it's worth considering 20 lands if you do.
I don't like Nacatl, it feels clunky. It felt that on every turn of the game except turn 1 it was terrible, and playing without it lets you be way more versatile (doing damage at instant speed is harder to handle for many more decks than a vanilla 3/3)
I love 2 Grim Lavamancer because in some matchups you really, really want to see him. He's also an easy sideboard out against creature light decks.
One thing I will say is that 20 land is the number to average 2 damage per card in a 40 bolt deck, Ala the philosophy of fire. Because we can't actualy run 40 bolts and must settle for some less efficient cards, going over 20 land can seriously harm your average damage per card. On the other hand cutting down to 18 or even 17 land can significantly improve your average, although it will slightly decrease consistency.
On another note, I have been having a tough time against Eldrazi & Taxes (BW Death & Taxes). What advice can you guys give me on how to improve that match up?
Thanks for the write up. As a beginning burn player it is very handy.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
There are not very many degenerate combo decks locally like Grisleshoal or Storm, but other common decks in the format like Merfolk, Affinity, Grixis, CoCo variants, Jund, and Tron are all usually there every week. Any SB advice would be appreciated, I was thinking about trying to find room for Ensnaring Bridge in the SB, but with the Eldrazi decks neutered that is probably the tempo/control Merfolk player in me speaking up and a mistake. I also think Pyroclasm-like effects might need to be included.
The other take away from last night is that I feel I need to learn how to use Eidolon of the Great Revel better as it put more pressure on me than my opponent in a few games, and one time locked me out of casting any spells.
2 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Copperline Gorge
3 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Grounds
4 Wooded Foothills
Creature
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka’s Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Searing Blaze
Sorceries
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
3 Destructive Revelry
2 Leyline of Punishment
2 Choke
2 Skullcrack
2 Path to Exile
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Shatterstorm
1 Torpor orb
I feal for you, losing to that Kithkin deck. My own meta has Kithkin, Knights, and Soul Sisters running around.
As far as sweepers there's 4 real options. I was thinking about outlining their strengths and weaknesses a while ago so I'll just do it here.
Pyroclasm
The basic sweeper. No special features but only 2 mana which is nice.
Volcanic Fallout
You get a ton of upside vs 'Clasm for the one extra mana you spend. Instant Speed is great, and uncountable is good with Blue comming back thanks to Visions. The biggest thing though for me is the 2 damage to players. D-Rev, Smash to Smithereens, Seeing Blaze, and Seeing Blood are all considered very powerful cards as they are removal that also goes to the face. Basicly a 2 for one. Fallout does the same thing while also getting around counters and leyline, and it dosnt even need a target.
Anger of the Gods
The big sweeper giving 3 damage for 3 mana. It also exiles whatever it kills putting down kitchen finks perminently. It's only sorcery speed however. Whether the extra damage and exile outweigh the benefits of the other sweepers is meta dependent and honestly a mater of preference.
Kozilek's Return
The newest adition to the Pyroclasm Effect family. While we can't use the Eldrazi triger on it a instant speed 'Clasm that kills pro red things is very attactive. Kor Firewalker, Arion Champion, Master of Waves, and Etched Champion all die to this guy. If these things are running rampant in your meta this is definately something to try out. If you do please let us know how it goes as people are just starting to test this thing out.
All in all which sweeper to bring and how many (if any at all) is a personal choice for your meta, but there are a number of options out there. Lots of people love Anger. I personaly prefer Fallout.
That's interesting. Delver dosnt have haste and is probably even less consistent than the Cat, but thing in the Ice is possibly something to look at.
On the whole though D-Rev alone almost mandates the third color be green. If you try this though I would be very interested. Jeskai burn hasn't been a thing in a while.
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Path to Exile
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Searing Blaze(other 3 in main)
1 ???
I'm wondering if the one last card needs to be another Cage, as it helps in the Abzan Company matchup. I was also thinking a Pillar of Flame? Any other ideas? I will be taking notes during the tournament, so I shall hopefully have a decent tournament report for you all of you lovely people next Sunday! Thanks in advance for the help!
Modern:
Grixis Shadow
Burn
Titanshift
Copycat (Given up currently, not entirely sure what it needs)
Legacy:
Burn
B/R Reanimator (slowly building
EDH:
Sedris Control/Reanimation
Are you sure about Shatterstorm? it's a 4CMC card and you're playing only 18 lands. We barely play a 3cmc in our sideboards (Molten Rain most of the time) So you'd better consider this.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
If you are going blue; I feel like Stormchaser Mage would be better than titi; haste makes its a better top deck; evasion is great; and prowess works pretty well with the deck
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
I agree, there are only two realy "artifact centric" decks even remotely in the meta right now, lantern and Affinity. While it would basicly be game over to land shatterstorm against them it isn't realy necisary. Both those decks rely on a few critical peices without which the rest of their stuff dosnt do much.
Signal pest is remarkably weak by himself, as are ornithopter, memnite, spring Leif drum, even a lone inkmoth isn't scary as a 1/1. Blowing up a few of affinity's payoff cards with Shattering Spree is alot cheaper and easier than hoping you hit the 4 land you need for Shatterstorm. Same goes for lantern, plus they tend to pack welding jar so I believe (may be wrong) you can spam copies of Spree at critical things like Ensnaring Bridge and ensure a kill.
Almost any 2 land hand will allow this to be a pain-free shockland. Obviously it is not good in a 1 land hand, but are we not mulliganing MOST hands with fewer than 2 lands anyway?
Cube
Terricube
Modern
8Rack
Burn
Legacy
Oops, All Spells!
Pox
What is the preferred number of Destructive Revelry and Kor Firewalker?
I am currently running 4 and 3. Many of the lists are running 3 and 2 respectively. Dropping one of each allows me to run 2 more Skullcrack in the Side, or at the very least, two spots open. How important is the one extra card?