I just played 3 games with that deck and went 3-0. Felt pretty good. Though, why not drop the white and use Groot? Mana would be much smoother, and you give Soulflayer a target for a relevant ability. You just lose Mirran Crusader from the sideboard, and honestly I haven't been liking Unlife or Stony Silence in the side. 2 Ancient Grudge has been doing just fine.
Edit: I take that last comment back. Played a few more games and there are some awkward scenarios. I switched back to Nacatl after I could have won a burn matchup on turn 3, but couldn't b/c nuking the yard for BI and BR on a Dryad didn't get me there. I needed that extra +2 from Nacatl. Faithless Looting when good is really good, but its also really bad. A couple times I had it in hand with other cards I couldn't afford to discard, so it was a dead card in my hand.
For anyone wondering what I am currently testing. One of the things I really liked about the JUL is how great traverse was, as I expanded upon earlier. I found another list that ran two traverse a few weeks ago, running both seal of fire and tarfire to help enable delirium. With the decrease of delve spells, delirium is easier to hit and keep.
I increased the land count from 15 to 16. There are times in regular zooicide that I found myself "Flooding" with 3 lands already on the field, a land isn't really something I am looking to top deck. But I also found 15 lands to be awkward at times, especially with manamorphose. I split the difference here and am running 16, with traverse to back me up in case I get stuck on one land.
I cut the hast dude from the JUL list for a goyf. While haste dude can be good, Most times I am just looking for a bulky body to come down and be mean. If I am able to fetch goyf with traverse, that means he is going to at least be a 4/5. In this list, he can get as high as a 7/8, which starts reaching Death Shadow territory.
My board is a bit weak. I am not really good at putting together a board, so I mostly pick and choose from various lists that I test and see what meshes together and what doesn't. I like the crypts over the spellbombs, I think being able to drop it for no mana investment is worth sacrificing the cantrip. I found dismember to do double duty in killing stuff while causing lifeloss, but wont cut flame slash as it still does really good wrk against most of our problematic creatures. Grim Flayer is my big rotation there. He could be a monkey or another goyf, but just wanted to test him to see how he felt. I figure, he can come down before the monkey and not interfere with my delirium, and trample over chumps unlike goyf. Plus he helps build delirium himself, which is nice, and fixes my topdecks.
Some cards I have been considering are IoK (I usually board them in against a lot of stuff, but with 4 MD TS, I don't see too much of a need), the hasted evoke guy, and Yxilid Jailer. There jailer is my random tech against Dredge, since they would need to actually draw their conflagrate to kill it, and it's tutorable via traverse.
Let me know if you have any comments or questions.
I've been testing this deck now, played in two 6-round pptq. Lost in the semi- and quarter-finals of each. I'm playing the 4 color version, with 2 Dryads and 1 goyf instead of Lynx. Not a huge fan of Lynx, makes your fetching awkward and it's a terrible topdeck. However, I'm not super impressed with Dryad (with 1 Tarfire in place of 1 Bolt). Mandrils has been the best sb card in many matchups (playing 3, I wouldn't play just 2 with so many midrange decks around). What do you guys think of cutting one Become and the at least 1 dryad for Mandrils MD? Also, I don't dislike the idea of a 1-of Postmortem Lunge.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Trophyless guy.
Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
My reason for disliking the Mandrils main deck is that, occasionally, they just sit in your hand too long because you just have threats/pumps, not cyclers. I feel super salty when I have a halfway decent hand with mutagenics and battle rages but just the monkey
Does anyone else like Vexing Devil in the delirium list's mainboard?
Our opponent either takes 4 to the face and throws a creature in the yard (fueling delirium), or lets us drop a 4/3 for R (enabling ferocious for Temur Battle Rage).
Devil made less sense with Become Immense maindecked and no Traverse; he was just an extra 4 damage for R and potential delve fuel, which doesn't do very much when we're already hitting so hard with BI + TBR combo. In the delirium list, that dependable extra 4 dmg makes up for some of the reach we lose without Become Immense, and he is far from useless in the yard since delirium enables us to cast Death's Shadow for BG. He can also be an all-star in removal-heavy matchups if we're running Postmortem Lunge in the board.
Groot is nuts and I rarely don't have delirium turn 2. He is nuts with trample, he eats up any opposing creature. I found with Nacalt the land skite or a wall and there we are. With groot just keep swinging toughness doesn't matter.
I like the reanimate but I don't like faithless looting. It's card disadvantage. You use 3 to get 2. Yes it chucks dead cards but what cards are dead outside of thoughtseize on an empty hand? Or occasional land?
Yet another top8, yet another loss at quarter-finals. Lost to dredge this time, with some really weird draws :\ Tested 1 Mandrils main, instead of 1 dryad. I don't think it was even relevant to say anything about it. Still not sure what 1-drop should be playing on those slots. But the power is definitely there, I did something I had never done before I believe: top8ing 3 pptqs in a row after picking up a deck with close to no testing at all (the pptqs where I live are pretty tough actually).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Trophyless guy.
Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
So, Brad Nelson had a fantastic turn 2 kill in the top 8 against jund, then promptly fell apart. If you get a chance to watch the match, this is exactly the reason I dislike the steppe lynx build, much to Nelson's chagrin (he was commenting during the deck tech that there wasn't really a reason to play a different version other than the lynx one). In the three following games he gets disrupted via discard + kill spells and ends up with a useless lynx. TBF, Jund ripping her second pulse, after he has TS'd away the first, to kill both the cats is bad luck, but I don;t think people realize (expecially not the commentators) how bad the MU is for death's shadow.
4x death's shadow
4 x wild nacatl
4x monestary swift spear
2x gnarlwood dryad
1x tarmogoyf
4x street wraith
4 x gitaxian probe
4x mutagenic growth
4 x mishras-bauble
3x thoughtseize
2 x lighting bolt
4x bloodstained mire
4 x windswept heath
2 x wooded foot hills
1 x verdant catacomb
1x arid Mesa
1x stomping ground
1x overgrown tomb
1x blood crypt
1x sacred foundry
1x Godless shrine
Side bored
1x lighting helix
1x dismember
1x phyrexian unlife
1x Ranger of Eos
1x graft diggers cage
1x forest
1x tarmogoyf
1x nature's claim
1x ancient grudge
1x pyroclasm
1x stony silence
2 x inquisition of kozilek
2x hooting mandrills
Round one I played against a abzan planes walkers deck. Nothing to crazy I got the match 2-1. Hooting mandrills was a big deal in this match to get around abrupt decay.
Round two was a grixis thing in the ice deck. My opponent kept a bad hand game one and game two I had to many threats. Ranger of Eos hooting mandrills and tarmogoyf out of the bored helped went 2-0
Round three was nyay burn. I won 2-0 but I got seriously lucky. Game one I slammed a turn one and two swiftspear and played probes and baubles. I may have played a bit fast and lose with my life total but I knew that death's shadow was going to make or break the match up. A few things I learned from this match is that I need to be thinking about deflecting palm, not so much playing around it since you don't really have the time. Also I absent mindlessly cracked a fetch land when I was at zero life with a unlife in play (you can't pay life for affects if you don't have life). Anyway I feel like burn is a match up where you need to just jam damage.
Round four kiki evolution. I lost this one 1-2 and all I can say is that x/4 creatures are a house baloth having a 4 butt and gaining 4 life is a real deal Vs us, but I don't feel like this is one of those match ups that's just garbage. One thing to note. I had boreded In ancient grudge in for spell skite and engineered explosives I completely forgot that stoney silence would have been good to.
Round five was Vs RG tron not much to say I won this 2-0. I felt like it was just a race between what combo and his turn 3-4 wurmcoil
This deck is a blast to play and I don't feel much needs to change. One thing to note is the 3rd one drop slot between lynx dryad or kird ape. I firmly believe that it comes down to your play style. If you want to be more explosive the lynx is your man, personally I prefer the set it and forget style witg kird ape you just play him with a mountain and you got a 2/3 you don't need to maintain anything. Gnarlwood dryad is weird I don't know how I feel about him. The death touch is so freaking good, but iv had to many times where he's just a 1/1 death touch I dony know if he's correct but this week I'll be trying the ape.
In conclusion this deck is dope I love it lol
Not sure about Temple Garden. It's true you have more 1g spells now, but you never wanna start with with TG because it casts nothing else but green spells, whereas Stomping Ground or Overgrown Tomb let you cast other spells (specially when your t2 is a combination of Seize/Death Shadow and Swiftspear/Bolt, that Temple Garden doesn't help to achieve).
Actually, many times I do not have Nacatl and just don't fetch white at all with the first 2 lands. If you want perfect mana t2, you're still in the position of 1g source, so I guess it would only really matter by the 3rd land (assuming no Nacatl)? If that's the case, you're probably better served with a combination of OT+SG for the first two lands.
PS: I liked Nihil Spellbomb a lot, it's another cantrip and helps delirium. Worse against coco/chord, but I'm considering cutting cage for the 2nd one (it also depends if I end up running dryad at all ofc!...also considering some monkeys main atm).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Trophyless guy.
Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Sam Black in his wrap up video says its like playing normal Death Shadow Aggro with a handicap.
Are you guys sure that's what he is saying? He says that the deck plays differently in that Dryad is not as consistently fast as Nacatl, Traverse can take time to turn on, and that not having Become Immense is significant but not devastating. But he also said that Traverse is very powerful and that he was impressed with the work Ghor Clan does with Traverse.
He seemed to think that it was different and unsure about whether it was better. I don't think he is saying that it is worse, but rather that the jury is still out in his opinion. Personally, I think the Delirium list leaves a lot of room for improvement. I'd like to see people keep tweaking it rather than just toss the idea aside. There is potential there!
Maybe I overstated it, but tilzinger is right, he literally said "it mostly felt like playing Death Shadow with a handicap". He also says that the set up cost for Traverse and Dryad is big and you don't get delirium consistently enough, which makes you slower (because you do not have nacatl and BI). However, he says Traverse, when on, is really good, and he was really impressed by Ghor-Clan, but that ultimately it is not worth to add so much inconsistency to the deck. In the end, he thinks it's a "failed experiment".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Trophyless guy.
Thought of the Month: I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Even before watching the videos I had switched back to the Lynx. Brad Nelson makes a good point in his deck tech too. Even if those are the 3 worst cards you don't want to dilute the rest of the deck in an effort to replace those 3 cards. The 3 worst cards can easily win you the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Edit: I take that last comment back. Played a few more games and there are some awkward scenarios. I switched back to Nacatl after I could have won a burn matchup on turn 3, but couldn't b/c nuking the yard for BI and BR on a Dryad didn't get me there. I needed that extra +2 from Nacatl. Faithless Looting when good is really good, but its also really bad. A couple times I had it in hand with other cards I couldn't afford to discard, so it was a dead card in my hand.
WUEsper ControlUB
WUCheeri0sRB
BArcane RemedyUBWBW Fateful HourWBBRSuicide ZooWGBRDredge From BelowGUMy H/W list
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
Creatures:
4 Death's Shadow
4 Gnarlwood Dryad
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Street Wraith
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Become Immense
4 Mutagenic Growth
1 Tarfire
4 Temur Battle Rage
Sorceries:
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Artifacts:
4 Mishra's Bauble
Enchantments:
1 Seal of Fire
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Flame Slash
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Spellskite
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Natural State
1 Grim Flayer
1 Dismember
2 Tormod's Crypt
For anyone wondering what I am currently testing. One of the things I really liked about the JUL is how great traverse was, as I expanded upon earlier. I found another list that ran two traverse a few weeks ago, running both seal of fire and tarfire to help enable delirium. With the decrease of delve spells, delirium is easier to hit and keep.
I increased the land count from 15 to 16. There are times in regular zooicide that I found myself "Flooding" with 3 lands already on the field, a land isn't really something I am looking to top deck. But I also found 15 lands to be awkward at times, especially with manamorphose. I split the difference here and am running 16, with traverse to back me up in case I get stuck on one land.
I cut the hast dude from the JUL list for a goyf. While haste dude can be good, Most times I am just looking for a bulky body to come down and be mean. If I am able to fetch goyf with traverse, that means he is going to at least be a 4/5. In this list, he can get as high as a 7/8, which starts reaching Death Shadow territory.
My board is a bit weak. I am not really good at putting together a board, so I mostly pick and choose from various lists that I test and see what meshes together and what doesn't. I like the crypts over the spellbombs, I think being able to drop it for no mana investment is worth sacrificing the cantrip. I found dismember to do double duty in killing stuff while causing lifeloss, but wont cut flame slash as it still does really good wrk against most of our problematic creatures. Grim Flayer is my big rotation there. He could be a monkey or another goyf, but just wanted to test him to see how he felt. I figure, he can come down before the monkey and not interfere with my delirium, and trample over chumps unlike goyf. Plus he helps build delirium himself, which is nice, and fixes my topdecks.
Some cards I have been considering are IoK (I usually board them in against a lot of stuff, but with 4 MD TS, I don't see too much of a need), the hasted evoke guy, and Yxilid Jailer. There jailer is my random tech against Dredge, since they would need to actually draw their conflagrate to kill it, and it's tutorable via traverse.
Let me know if you have any comments or questions.
My H/W list
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
My H/W list
Our opponent either takes 4 to the face and throws a creature in the yard (fueling delirium), or lets us drop a 4/3 for R (enabling ferocious for Temur Battle Rage).
Devil made less sense with Become Immense maindecked and no Traverse; he was just an extra 4 damage for R and potential delve fuel, which doesn't do very much when we're already hitting so hard with BI + TBR combo. In the delirium list, that dependable extra 4 dmg makes up for some of the reach we lose without Become Immense, and he is far from useless in the yard since delirium enables us to cast Death's Shadow for BG. He can also be an all-star in removal-heavy matchups if we're running Postmortem Lunge in the board.
I like the reanimate but I don't like faithless looting. It's card disadvantage. You use 3 to get 2. Yes it chucks dead cards but what cards are dead outside of thoughtseize on an empty hand? Or occasional land?
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
My H/W list
4x death's shadow
4 x wild nacatl
4x monestary swift spear
2x gnarlwood dryad
1x tarmogoyf
4x street wraith
4 x gitaxian probe
4x mutagenic growth
4 x mishras-bauble
3x thoughtseize
2 x lighting bolt
4x bloodstained mire
4 x windswept heath
2 x wooded foot hills
1 x verdant catacomb
1x arid Mesa
1x stomping ground
1x overgrown tomb
1x blood crypt
1x sacred foundry
1x Godless shrine
Side bored
1x lighting helix
1x dismember
1x phyrexian unlife
1x Ranger of Eos
1x graft diggers cage
1x forest
1x tarmogoyf
1x nature's claim
1x ancient grudge
1x pyroclasm
1x stony silence
2 x inquisition of kozilek
2x hooting mandrills
Round one I played against a abzan planes walkers deck. Nothing to crazy I got the match 2-1. Hooting mandrills was a big deal in this match to get around abrupt decay.
Round two was a grixis thing in the ice deck. My opponent kept a bad hand game one and game two I had to many threats. Ranger of Eos hooting mandrills and tarmogoyf out of the bored helped went 2-0
Round three was nyay burn. I won 2-0 but I got seriously lucky. Game one I slammed a turn one and two swiftspear and played probes and baubles. I may have played a bit fast and lose with my life total but I knew that death's shadow was going to make or break the match up. A few things I learned from this match is that I need to be thinking about deflecting palm, not so much playing around it since you don't really have the time. Also I absent mindlessly cracked a fetch land when I was at zero life with a unlife in play (you can't pay life for affects if you don't have life). Anyway I feel like burn is a match up where you need to just jam damage.
Round four kiki evolution. I lost this one 1-2 and all I can say is that x/4 creatures are a house baloth having a 4 butt and gaining 4 life is a real deal Vs us, but I don't feel like this is one of those match ups that's just garbage. One thing to note. I had boreded In ancient grudge in for spell skite and engineered explosives I completely forgot that stoney silence would have been good to.
Round five was Vs RG tron not much to say I won this 2-0. I felt like it was just a race between what combo and his turn 3-4 wurmcoil
This deck is a blast to play and I don't feel much needs to change. One thing to note is the 3rd one drop slot between lynx dryad or kird ape. I firmly believe that it comes down to your play style. If you want to be more explosive the lynx is your man, personally I prefer the set it and forget style witg kird ape you just play him with a mountain and you got a 2/3 you don't need to maintain anything. Gnarlwood dryad is weird I don't know how I feel about him. The death touch is so freaking good, but iv had to many times where he's just a 1/1 death touch I dony know if he's correct but this week I'll be trying the ape.
In conclusion this deck is dope I love it lol
Actually, many times I do not have Nacatl and just don't fetch white at all with the first 2 lands. If you want perfect mana t2, you're still in the position of 1g source, so I guess it would only really matter by the 3rd land (assuming no Nacatl)? If that's the case, you're probably better served with a combination of OT+SG for the first two lands.
PS: I liked Nihil Spellbomb a lot, it's another cantrip and helps delirium. Worse against coco/chord, but I'm considering cutting cage for the 2nd one (it also depends if I end up running dryad at all ofc!...also considering some monkeys main atm).
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Also the Deck Tech with Brad Nelson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDRMLSSZjFk
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo
Are you guys sure that's what he is saying? He says that the deck plays differently in that Dryad is not as consistently fast as Nacatl, Traverse can take time to turn on, and that not having Become Immense is significant but not devastating. But he also said that Traverse is very powerful and that he was impressed with the work Ghor Clan does with Traverse.
He seemed to think that it was different and unsure about whether it was better. I don't think he is saying that it is worse, but rather that the jury is still out in his opinion. Personally, I think the Delirium list leaves a lot of room for improvement. I'd like to see people keep tweaking it rather than just toss the idea aside. There is potential there!
Thought of the Month:
I gave up from trying to require the 'i' on my name: SolesticIo