Sigh... I don't think they'll ban anything (yet) from Twin....but it still makes me nervous just the same. I came from playing U/R Delver w/Cruise and new they were going to ban TC so I decided to build either Bloom Titan or U/R Splinter Twin. I decided on Twin because I had most of the mana base already. Now that I have this deck almost complete, it decides to go off and win everything lol.
Do we know exactly what percentage of decks were twin at the GP? What about on day 2?
I hope it wasn't 20% twin at the GP. That seems like a ton and worries me even more.
@Fernling306 - Marshall Sutcliffe suggested that it was in the upper teens close to 20%, this was mentioned on camera... though I am unaware of exactly what was present.
It was 16%. Though that is one tourney and is not indicative, esp since it wasn't too popular a choice at the PT, despite it winning. WIll need to see what the MTGO meta is going forward. We'll be fine for a while, despite winning the last two events we were stone dead in the Delver era, they won't act that fast. Look how long it took em to axe Pod.
I hope your right. I just bought into twin on paper a month ago, would hate it if I didn't get a chance to actually play my favorite deck. On a positive note, at least the other cards in the deck will hold its value.
@darktutor - Which decklists are you looking for? There are sample decks in part III (The Shell & Sample Decks). Also I removed the Modern 2015 section for the time being. It'll return this week.
Yeah those were the ones I meant, the 2015 ones, having those kind of updated decklists was one of the best things that have happened to this Primer. But I guess you must be reworking the spoilers on the post or something, since you said that you'll put them back in. Just that. Keep up the good work, it looks amazing
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
I really hope Twin doesn't see any significant bans.
The last time the deck did anything before the pro tour was when Dickmann won the GP. Right? Since then it has had some top-8 appearances but it hasn't won much of anything. Pod had some amazing finishes right in a row....Then got Siege Rhino. The only thing that Twin got was DTT and that was promptly banned.
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EDH RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG URThe Locust godUR
Modern UWMiraclesUW
Legacy BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG UBRGrixis ControlUBR RGLandsRG
Just got home from GP Vancouver. I ran a fairly typical UR list. I just missed day two in the finals (6-3) I'll post some match details later as I'm about ready for bed. I felt the deck ran really well and is well positioned I faced 9 different decks and managed to dodge Abzan and the mirror. My matches were as follow.
Round 1: UWR - Kiki Control (Win 2-1) super insane games, story coming soon
Round 2: Scapeshift (Win 2-0) Easy wins
Round 3: Infect (Win 2-0) Opponent didn't submit his deck list so he got game 1 loss. Game two I won on turn 5.
Round 4: Merfolk (Win 2-0) Super close both games I won via Twin and both games I had to combo that turn or loose.
Round 5: GW Tron (Loss 1-2) game 1 he mulled to 5 and never played a tron land. Went to time and he eventually Emmyd me
Round 6: RG Tron (Win 2-0) Easy 2-0
Round 7: MonoU Tron (Loss 2-0) Opponent was a huge ******** calling the judge tried to call me a cheater over nothing.
Round 8: Burn (Win 2-1) - Super tense. Won in 3 off a top deck twin (3 scalding tarn in hand) will tell a good story.
Round 9: Affinity (Loss 2-1) great player from local meta. Only plays affinity so he's well well versed in the deck.
Anyways that's all for now. I'll write some details tomorrow if anyone wants a read. I'll post my list also. Natures claim was MVP
With the amount of Abzan running around has anyone had a chance to test with hippocamp main deck to get arround abrupt decay?
Granted cant combo till 1 turn later and the ETB ability is far less useful not a great blocker and no evasion.
3 power allows you to combo past 2 soul sisters and 4 CMC means abrupt is blanked.
Yes, I had 1 in, then took it out, and am now adding it back. After back to back tournament wins we could see more sideboard hate such as Illness in the Ranks and what not, which neuters Pestermite and Exarch. Turn slower, yes, but it also beats down faster. I'm running a 3-2-1 formation 3 Exarchs, 2 Pestermite, and 1 Hippocamp.
Hippocamp is not how you beat Abzan. You will not leave the combo in against them in the first place, so why bother and worsen every other MUs that are relevant right now (no Soul Sisters are not)? I mean, comming down one turn later is huge for our tempo aspect and its not like they can not grab Twin with TS in the first place (or kill the Hippo with Path/Dismember/Pact).
Pack some Blood Moon, Batterskulls/Keranos/Dragons and Sowers/Shackles in your side which transform you into Blue Moon and you are good to go against Abzan. You will have at least a fighting chance and less dead draws. I think you have to sacrifice 1 MU G1 in order to have a broad good MU against everything else.
Agreed but the mana denial plan is the much better part than trying to outmidrange them with threats that are worse than the ones they have
just one question, i play mostly tarmo twin because of the advantage on tarmogoyf, so im a little off with ur, but with a meta full of abzan,why ur is winning so much? i mean, it should be one of our worst match ups right?
Junk is popular, but it's at most 20% of the meta and while it's a bad matchup it's far from unwinnable. Twin is favoured against most of the other decks in the format.
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When you peer long enough through the depths, the depths peer also through you.
It probably IS our worst matchup. But going straight UR makes our match up against the rest of the field a lot better. You just accept that you have a rough time game 1 against Abzan and then post board you are almost as good as TarmoTwin against Abzan anyway.
Won the die roll. I end up mulling to 4 0 landers all day. My Keep is Scalding tarn / Bolt / Remand / Deceiver. I did not see another land the entire game. I let my opponent get to his 5th land drop to gain information before conceding. All I saw was Colonnade and Resto, this was enough to assume it was some form of America/Combo.
Game two was really close I was able to have the advantage of Sideboarding while he had no idea what he was against as I never even cracked the tarn in game 1. I closed the game out with snapcaster + bolt beats, Dispel is broken in this matchup.
Game 3 was super grindy, I was eventually able to land a batterskull. I was crashing in for awhile and had my oponnent at 7 life. I had Batterskull + Snap in play to his open board 8 untapped mana. I go to attack and he flashes in restoration angel. Before blocks (my hand is 2x deceiver 1 bolt 7 open mana) I flash in deceiver to tap the restoration angel, in response he flashes in snapcaster mage targeting path and immediately paths my snapcaster mage. In response I flash the second deciever to tap his snapcaster mage. Bolt resolved and I swing in for 4 with an unblocked batterskull. Bolt in hand to seal with game with my 7th land. He has kiki combo in hand so it was do or die. If he had path'd the batterskull I would have lost.
Round 2 Scapeshift (Win 2-0)
There isn't a ton to tell, I feel this match up is fairly easy, I won quickly on the play during turn 5 in game 1 and game 2 I was able to blood moon on turn 4 with dispel backup for his izzet charm that I knew about through peak. Quick win after that resolved.
Round 3 Infect. (Win 2-0)
My Opponent got a game 1 loss for not submitting his deck list on time - he had the sleep in special two bies. So he took the play game 2 and mulled to 6. He played un-cracked fetch and Probed me and passed. I had combo in hand + Dispel and bolt. He gets a breeding pool plays dryad arbor and passed. On turn I play land drop and pass. He Rancor's his dryad arbor which I bolt in response and he then casts vines. With him tapped out in what has to be the most pitifully pathetic showing for infect I slam deceiver untap twin.
Round 4 Merfolk. (Win 2-0)
Not a whole lot to tell, both games I was able to combo, Dispel was again huge saving my win cons from path/dismember. Spellskite also played a large roll in this match up, stone walling their early creatures and protecting the combo. Both games I was dead on board if I didn't combo. But luckily I was able to combo out just fine for a 2-0 win.
Round 5 GW Tron (Loss 1-2)
In game 1 my opponent mulled to fine and never played a tron land. I did see the bobbles cycling though so I made the assumption to SB for tron. Game 2 and 3 were super grindy and he was able to take the win. Main deck Path + 4 Sideboard Natures claim and 4 Sideboard Spellskite was extremely brutal. I simply did not have enough counter magic to compete. He natures claimed me 3 times in 1 turn. Both games I died to Emrakul, we went to time and I had 2 judges + a herd of people which made this final match extremely stressful.
Round 6 RG Tron (Win 2-0)
I almost felt bad for how badly this guy got beat. Game 1 he mulled to 5 and played 3 Grove of the Burnwillows... that is all. Game 2 he mulled to 6 and let out a huge sigh saying I guess i'll keep. Blood moon was able to quickly shut him out of the game and make room for my combo.
Round 7 Mono U Tron (Loss 0-2)
My opponent was just an a ss. Everything about him from the way he carried himself smugly tapped his cards rude comments and and always rule mongering trying to get me infractions. This match up is already miserable enough, but he knocked it outa the park. At one point I Deceiver during his main phase to un-tap my sulfur falls to keep up spell snare, I know he has sundering titan in hand. Having the spell snare mana up is most irreverent but I was playing extra cautions. He lets the deceiver resolve and without saying anything I am looking at my lands and I say target sulfur falls. He immediately yells for judge and exclaims that I touched my steam vents. The judge sides with him and force me to change targets. I was so done with the match up I didn't even care but I am just stewing in my head like reallly... This is happening.
Round 8 Burn (Win 2-1)
My opponent unrolls a siege rhino mat I say wow not hiding anything, he says you may as well put it all on the table. And he then proceeds to turn 1 goblin guide! Damnit I was fooled. Anyways Game 1 I was steam rolled, I kept a slower hand with no counter magic.
Game 2 was a landslide victory for me, negate, dispel, bolt, deceiver, + 3 lands is my opening (KEEP!).
Game 3 was getting down to the wire, I was beating him down with a vendilion clique which revealed 2 Eidelon destructive revelry (Which I bottomed) and some burn.He eventually is able to kill out my creatures. I keep remanding his Eidelons (Deceiver in play) to try and dig for the combo. Eventually he hits a 4th land and I am out of gas. My hand is Deceiver + 3 scalding tarns. He plays Eidelon In Response I slam my second deceiver so I can block next turn to by time if needed. He then plays the second one and passed the turn. (I am at 4 life) Any spell other than splinter twin or batterskull kills me thanks to double Eidelon. Off the top Splinter twin, windmill slammed it and revealed 3 scalding tarns. Felt good.
Round 9 Affinity (Loss 2-1)
Game 1 I quickly win on turn 5 combo kill. In both games 2/3 I kept good hands but never drew into any of my Sideboard hate. He was able to turn 3 Inkmoth kill me in game 2 and game 3 I slowed him down with double deceiver, but he was able to thoughtseize the Natures claim out of my hand and slam a spellskite which I never drew an answer to. This guy is a local in my meta and so I was happy for him, at least one of us made day 2. He is a good player that I have nothing but respect for so it didn't feel so much like a bad beat.
Anyways that's about all the details I can remember, hope you enjoyed the report.
im playing this list and test peek, 3' pestermite, lavamans and 3' snap's
early im playing with 3 remands, but it is too good to not play <4 right now. lavamans are good, but am i needed peek? is 4' snaps too many?
about lands: 22 is pretty good, but many lists run 2 edges, it is too dengerous to play 3 colorless? with harvest i can kill manlands without edge.
abot sideboard: my meta is standart but have some zoo and elves, so i run 2 angers
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EDH
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Narset, Enlightened Master
Has anyone tried Monastery Siege? It seems like on of the cards people were talking about in the new set, but I haven't seen anyone using it.
I use 2 in my sideboard, no keranos. I like it, its mostly useful vs abzan and other decks with kill spells. Its you can't be targeted effect isn't great vs abzan because by t3 they have already used iok/thoughtseize. Its good vs scapeshift thats for sure.
I hope it wasn't 20% twin at the GP. That seems like a ton and worries me even more.
I hope your right. I just bought into twin on paper a month ago, would hate it if I didn't get a chance to actually play my favorite deck. On a positive note, at least the other cards in the deck will hold its value.
Yeah those were the ones I meant, the 2015 ones, having those kind of updated decklists was one of the best things that have happened to this Primer. But I guess you must be reworking the spoilers on the post or something, since you said that you'll put them back in. Just that. Keep up the good work, it looks amazing
The last time the deck did anything before the pro tour was when Dickmann won the GP. Right? Since then it has had some top-8 appearances but it hasn't won much of anything. Pod had some amazing finishes right in a row....Then got Siege Rhino. The only thing that Twin got was DTT and that was promptly banned.
RGOmnath, Locus of ManaRG
URThe Locust godUR
Modern
UWMiraclesUW
Legacy
BGIce Station Zebra (Living Fins)BG
UBRGrixis ControlUBR
RGLandsRG
Round 1: UWR - Kiki Control (Win 2-1) super insane games, story coming soon
Round 2: Scapeshift (Win 2-0) Easy wins
Round 3: Infect (Win 2-0) Opponent didn't submit his deck list so he got game 1 loss. Game two I won on turn 5.
Round 4: Merfolk (Win 2-0) Super close both games I won via Twin and both games I had to combo that turn or loose.
Round 5: GW Tron (Loss 1-2) game 1 he mulled to 5 and never played a tron land. Went to time and he eventually Emmyd me
Round 6: RG Tron (Win 2-0) Easy 2-0
Round 7: MonoU Tron (Loss 2-0) Opponent was a huge ******** calling the judge tried to call me a cheater over nothing.
Round 8: Burn (Win 2-1) - Super tense. Won in 3 off a top deck twin (3 scalding tarn in hand) will tell a good story.
Round 9: Affinity (Loss 2-1) great player from local meta. Only plays affinity so he's well well versed in the deck.
Anyways that's all for now. I'll write some details tomorrow if anyone wants a read. I'll post my list also. Natures claim was MVP
Granted cant combo till 1 turn later and the ETB ability is far less useful not a great blocker and no evasion.
3 power allows you to combo past 2 soul sisters and 4 CMC means abrupt is blanked.
Edit: Although Magix has some good points ^^
Agreed but the mana denial plan is the much better part than trying to outmidrange them with threats that are worse than the ones they have
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Congrats on the win too.
4 Deciever Exarch
2 Pestermite
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Spellskite
4 Serum Vision
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Peak
1 Dispel
1 Flameslash
4 Remand
2 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
4 Splinter Twin
1 Mountain
5 Island
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Sulfur Falls
3 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Natures Claim
1 Spellskite
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Negate
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Bloodmoon
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Batterskull
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
Round 1 America - Kiki Control (Win 2-1)
Won the die roll. I end up mulling to 4 0 landers all day. My Keep is Scalding tarn / Bolt / Remand / Deceiver. I did not see another land the entire game. I let my opponent get to his 5th land drop to gain information before conceding. All I saw was Colonnade and Resto, this was enough to assume it was some form of America/Combo.
Game two was really close I was able to have the advantage of Sideboarding while he had no idea what he was against as I never even cracked the tarn in game 1. I closed the game out with snapcaster + bolt beats, Dispel is broken in this matchup.
Game 3 was super grindy, I was eventually able to land a batterskull. I was crashing in for awhile and had my oponnent at 7 life. I had Batterskull + Snap in play to his open board 8 untapped mana. I go to attack and he flashes in restoration angel. Before blocks (my hand is 2x deceiver 1 bolt 7 open mana) I flash in deceiver to tap the restoration angel, in response he flashes in snapcaster mage targeting path and immediately paths my snapcaster mage. In response I flash the second deciever to tap his snapcaster mage. Bolt resolved and I swing in for 4 with an unblocked batterskull. Bolt in hand to seal with game with my 7th land. He has kiki combo in hand so it was do or die. If he had path'd the batterskull I would have lost.
Round 2 Scapeshift (Win 2-0)
There isn't a ton to tell, I feel this match up is fairly easy, I won quickly on the play during turn 5 in game 1 and game 2 I was able to blood moon on turn 4 with dispel backup for his izzet charm that I knew about through peak. Quick win after that resolved.
Round 3 Infect. (Win 2-0)
My Opponent got a game 1 loss for not submitting his deck list on time - he had the sleep in special two bies. So he took the play game 2 and mulled to 6. He played un-cracked fetch and Probed me and passed. I had combo in hand + Dispel and bolt. He gets a breeding pool plays dryad arbor and passed. On turn I play land drop and pass. He Rancor's his dryad arbor which I bolt in response and he then casts vines. With him tapped out in what has to be the most pitifully pathetic showing for infect I slam deceiver untap twin.
Round 4 Merfolk. (Win 2-0)
Not a whole lot to tell, both games I was able to combo, Dispel was again huge saving my win cons from path/dismember. Spellskite also played a large roll in this match up, stone walling their early creatures and protecting the combo. Both games I was dead on board if I didn't combo. But luckily I was able to combo out just fine for a 2-0 win.
Round 5 GW Tron (Loss 1-2)
In game 1 my opponent mulled to fine and never played a tron land. I did see the bobbles cycling though so I made the assumption to SB for tron. Game 2 and 3 were super grindy and he was able to take the win. Main deck Path + 4 Sideboard Natures claim and 4 Sideboard Spellskite was extremely brutal. I simply did not have enough counter magic to compete. He natures claimed me 3 times in 1 turn. Both games I died to Emrakul, we went to time and I had 2 judges + a herd of people which made this final match extremely stressful.
Round 6 RG Tron (Win 2-0)
I almost felt bad for how badly this guy got beat. Game 1 he mulled to 5 and played 3 Grove of the Burnwillows... that is all. Game 2 he mulled to 6 and let out a huge sigh saying I guess i'll keep. Blood moon was able to quickly shut him out of the game and make room for my combo.
Round 7 Mono U Tron (Loss 0-2)
My opponent was just an a ss. Everything about him from the way he carried himself smugly tapped his cards rude comments and and always rule mongering trying to get me infractions. This match up is already miserable enough, but he knocked it outa the park. At one point I Deceiver during his main phase to un-tap my sulfur falls to keep up spell snare, I know he has sundering titan in hand. Having the spell snare mana up is most irreverent but I was playing extra cautions. He lets the deceiver resolve and without saying anything I am looking at my lands and I say target sulfur falls. He immediately yells for judge and exclaims that I touched my steam vents. The judge sides with him and force me to change targets. I was so done with the match up I didn't even care but I am just stewing in my head like reallly... This is happening.
Round 8 Burn (Win 2-1)
My opponent unrolls a siege rhino mat I say wow not hiding anything, he says you may as well put it all on the table. And he then proceeds to turn 1 goblin guide! Damnit I was fooled. Anyways Game 1 I was steam rolled, I kept a slower hand with no counter magic.
Game 2 was a landslide victory for me, negate, dispel, bolt, deceiver, + 3 lands is my opening (KEEP!).
Game 3 was getting down to the wire, I was beating him down with a vendilion clique which revealed 2 Eidelon destructive revelry (Which I bottomed) and some burn.He eventually is able to kill out my creatures. I keep remanding his Eidelons (Deceiver in play) to try and dig for the combo. Eventually he hits a 4th land and I am out of gas. My hand is Deceiver + 3 scalding tarns. He plays Eidelon In Response I slam my second deceiver so I can block next turn to by time if needed. He then plays the second one and passed the turn. (I am at 4 life) Any spell other than splinter twin or batterskull kills me thanks to double Eidelon. Off the top Splinter twin, windmill slammed it and revealed 3 scalding tarns. Felt good.
Round 9 Affinity (Loss 2-1)
Game 1 I quickly win on turn 5 combo kill. In both games 2/3 I kept good hands but never drew into any of my Sideboard hate. He was able to turn 3 Inkmoth kill me in game 2 and game 3 I slowed him down with double deceiver, but he was able to thoughtseize the Natures claim out of my hand and slam a spellskite which I never drew an answer to. This guy is a local in my meta and so I was happy for him, at least one of us made day 2. He is a good player that I have nothing but respect for so it didn't feel so much like a bad beat.
Anyways that's about all the details I can remember, hope you enjoyed the report.
Great Vrs control and Amazing vrs abzan (+1 Blanks lingering souls)
3 Pestermite
3 Deceiver Exarch
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Grim Lavamancer
Instant [17]
2 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
4 Remand
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Electrolyze
1 Peek
1 Dispel
1 Harvest Pyre
4 Serum Visions
Enchantment [4]
4 Splinter Twin
Land [22]
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Breeding Pool
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Mountain
4 Island
2 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Spellskite
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Dispel
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Blood Moon
im playing this list and test peek, 3' pestermite, lavamans and 3' snap's
early im playing with 3 remands, but it is too good to not play <4 right now. lavamans are good, but am i needed peek? is 4' snaps too many?
about lands: 22 is pretty good, but many lists run 2 edges, it is too dengerous to play 3 colorless? with harvest i can kill manlands without edge.
abot sideboard: my meta is standart but have some zoo and elves, so i run 2 angers
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Narset, Enlightened Master
Modern
Twin
I use 2 in my sideboard, no keranos. I like it, its mostly useful vs abzan and other decks with kill spells. Its you can't be targeted effect isn't great vs abzan because by t3 they have already used iok/thoughtseize. Its good vs scapeshift thats for sure.
Grand Arbiter
Omnath
Skittles