MTG Salvation

UR does have a much better manabase than Grixis. Playing Terminate and Kcommand in a base blue deck makes mulligans weird.

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/310397#paper

This deck went 4-0 in a daily. It's running 2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar what do you guys think about their inclusion?

terrible, unplayable. what matchup do you want this? if you want 4 drops play Thunderbreak Regent or Jace Architect of thought. or even gifts ungiven.


Might even rather play venser.

Quote from Gul_Dukat »

terrible, unplayable. what matchup do you want this? if you want 4 drops play Thunderbreak Regent or Jace Architect of thought. or even gifts ungiven.


Might even rather play venser.

How about any matchup that wants to trade 1 for 1? Thunderbreak dies to a terminate/path and Jace is not putting 3 bodies on the table. Basically they can bolt the Parents and you still get 2 power in the air which can be used to whittle them down or chump. The card obviously isn't proven, but I don't think you can dismiss it so easily.

Sxnr1se, he brought in 3 Dispels, which is a crazy number, and did not board out the combo.

Also, you assume I don't know what I'm talking about, but I've been playing Modern for years and have played every Grixis deck there is that's playable and a few that aren't (like Delver) so I do know the mana isn't perfect, especially if you want to sideboard blood moons. In order for blood moon to be reasonable, you have to draw two fetches and a blood moon before they get a couple of basics in play, which limits it to basically amulet.

Also, you assume I don't know what I'm talking about

Okay...

but I've been playing Modern for years and have played every Grixis deck there is that's playable and a few that aren't (like Delver)

Did you just say that Grixis Delver is unplayable? You aren't exactly helping your case here.

It has poor matchups across the board. Frankly I don't see any argument for playing with Delver of Secrets and Young Pyromancer in Modern right now. It was fantastic with cruise but never caught up after the banning. What's your point? It hasn't been doing particularly well...

I should point out that I currently play both UR and Grixis twin. They're good in different metagames. Tasigur doesn't always do anything and Terminate doesn't have good targets against every deck.

What's your point?

Ah, the most condescending of all rhetorical questions.

The point is that I hardly trust your assessment of different decks if you dismiss a deck as frankly unplayable when it recently top 8'ed a GP and is continuing to put up respectable numbers (sitting at 3.2% of the meta and top 8'ing dailies and SCG events). Obviously it isn't as well positioned (or, imo, as powerful) as Twin, but that does not mean that the deck is unplayable or even bad.

Can we get back to discussing Straight UR Twin in the UR Twin thread? I feel like discussing Grixis Delver in this thread is not what where we want to be here.

There is also a specific thread for Grixis Twin, so I don't understand why should we be convinced to switch to that color combination, or discuss that deck outside of how to play against it, or what to expect from it, instead of discussing how good, bad or awkward is.
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So, I'm struggling a bit when playing against burn, I feel like if I lose the flip, the match will be 75% in favor of the Burn player. As I have a 100% win rate when I win the die roll and go 2-1 every time, and when I lose the roll I lose 2-1 100% of the times too. So far I've won 4 times and lost 7 times both the die roll and the game. In my sideboard I have 2 Huntmaster of the Fells, 1 Batterskull, 2 Dispel, 1 Negate and 1 Counterflux* as relevant cards against them. I know Counterflux is a weird card to bring in, but it gains 3 life, or takes care of Eidolon of the Great Revel and we have weaker cards against them. I usually bring out 2 Electrolyze, 2 Cryptic Command, 1 Grim Lavamancer and 2 Vendilion Cliques. As the cliques are replaced by werewolves, lavaman is not really useful against a 12/60 creature deck and electrolyzes and commands are underperfoming at their CMCs in the MU. Is there any other card I could use against the MU?? Is there any reason not to take out the cards I'm taking out?

take out vendilion?? and electrolyze? no no non no. you can take out cryptic


take out remands.


very hard to combo postboard.


Clique is AMAZING post board, electrolyze is decent not great but kills eidolon, and others.

side note, ive played burn in modern for 1.5 years and in legacy for ~3 years


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3 dispels is not unreasonable. I run 4 dispels in UR twin and you should be running 3-4 dispels in grixis.

I run a budget manabase (no tarns) and have a 60% win rate against burn. with tarns should be 65/35.


I also run no spellskites which hurts the matchup more

I have a large range of decks I consider playable, and Grixis Delver falls just below the threshold because there are better Grixis decks you could be playing. Same goes for Abzan (traditional version) right now. Enough about discussing other decks, though.

Dispel and Spell Snare, as well as Flashfreeze, are great against burn. The new redirect spell might be okay, as are Spellskite and Mizzium Meddler.

Thanks for the discussion, Sxnr1se, I don't disagree with bringing in Dispel but he didn't board out the combo, making the control mirror much easier for me.

MrM0nd4y, your post basically agrees with mine using gentler language. Thanks for clarifying.

You're not siding out Cryptic against a blue deck? Did you mistype or were you just naming the instants in the main?

Do you guys think that UR Twin is the best Twin variant to bring to an unknown meta? I'm moving at the end of the month, have found a few shops in the area but have no clue what to expect. I'm currently running Grixis Twin and having so-so results. Thanks!

You shoudn't side out cryptics vs blue decks unless you run 3-4 and are shaving one or two...........

Grixis is better in mirrors and vs Jund/Junk/CoCo

UR is better vs linear decks like burn, tron, infect, ad nauseam, elves, affinity, bogles, bloom titan and a few more.


so if your meta has lots of jund and coco I would play grixis if not I would play UR


in a unknown meta I would play UR

Cryptic against blue seems very bad because at four mana it doesn't do much when they're bringing in cheap counters. I'd board out all of them, maybe keep in 1 situationally.

Quote from Gul_Dukat »

Grixis is better in mirrors and vs Jund/Junk/CoCo

UR is better vs linear decks like burn, tron, infect, ad nauseam, elves, affinity, bogles, bloom titan and a few more.


so if your meta has lots of jund and coco I would play grixis if not I would play UR


in a unknown meta I would play UR

Is that the general consensus? UR Twin over Grixis Twin in an unknown meta?

I think most players will cut Cryptics against blue decks. Dispelling a Cryptic is too big of a tempo advantage. Answering Keranos is difficult, but Cryptic isn't a good answer to it either.

This thread is about UR Twin, not UR Twin vs Grixis Twin. Can we focus on "how can we make UR Twin better?" discussion?

What do you think if we go bigger, with dragons (Thunderbreak Regent, Thundermaw Hellkite) or Wurmcoil Engine for instance? Could this be the right path to UR Twin? I've been testing Regent, because it's a 4-mana threat. I had 2 mainboard, it worked ok, unfortunately i can't always choose which decks i play against, so i can't really make good conclusions if it would help or not against our worst matchups. I've started to test another version, with a Thundermaw mainboard, instead of lavamancer. I'll see if i get some good results

Been running 2 hellkites for a few weeks now and has been AMAZING.

but thundermaw def doesn't belong mainboard, if you want more threats play a 2nd clique.


I also think Grim Lavamancer is awful mainboard.