Hey guys, former Cruise and Dig player here. I've been testing out the following deck on Cockatrice and it has been doing alright, but I would like to run it by you guys:
The Relics in the sideboard are for the rising number of Dredge decks. What do you think? I'm not sure about the Smiters, but they have been putting on nice pressure.
4 Bob is fine. We ran 4 bob before with affinity and burn in the format, theres no reason why we wouldnt now, just make sure you know what your SB plain is against affinity and burn and you'll be fine.
Delve cards are out the window, the ones we were trying out werent that great anyways.
Slaughter Pact is probably only playable as a 1 of now, because of opposing rhinos.
Anafenza is still going to be a thing, there will be junk pod-esque decks that run a plethora synergous creatures that includes VoR and Finks- also, the less outlandish guess is dredge will become more of a thing. Dredgevine was tier 1.5 or 2, now it has a solid finisher and much better dredger.
Still unsure about lingering souls.
@player292
Thats a junk deck, not a BGx midrange deck.
We dont play BoP, we dont play more than 2 path, we have liliana, we play manlands, and we probably dont play smiter.
Rhino will probably goto 2-3 of. Either to make room for Thrun/batterskull/blood baron or for the timid bob player.
Hi, been lurking on this thread for a while. With the recent banning of pod, I am aiming for my deck to be more resilient against my burn, affinity and tron match ups. BTW, below is my deck. I am still contemplating on my sideboards but I aim it to be good against Tron, boggles and affinity match ups. Hoping to hear from you guys with regards to my deck. Thanks in advance!
Fringe Question: How do you guys beat that annoying Mono Green Devotion deck with Primal Command/Wave/Titan? I realize Fulminator Mage and discard theoretically should work, but only really if you are on the play, since generally they are able to do something splashy by turn 3.
Tasigur is looking really good in here. Maybe in place of Bob because he is so fragile in this meta, but he can supplement it too. He plays so well with Scooze and Bow and he is basically unkillable in a meta full of players who still think Path is a bad card.
For a Goyf replacement, run Hooting Mandrils...or Tasigur.
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
Is this deck viable without goyfs (using kotr for instance) and without bobs? A goyfless bobless abzan midrange
If you wanted to make a goyfless bobless junk deck it would consist of 3-4lilis 3-4souls 4 rhinos 4 soozes and wouldnt be tier 1 but you know what youd still have fun with it and with tight play could do well until you saved enough for 4 goyf.
When playing straight BG, I had been having trouble with Death and Taxes decks as they are filled to the brim with flyers. Would having some spice like this (Raking Canopy) in the sideboard nicely solve that?
Or would just switching to a white splash be better? My only thought with doing that was it will make the mana a bit worse against a deck who hunts that resource.
Is this deck viable without goyfs (using kotr for instance) and without bobs? A goyfless bobless abzan midrange
If you wanted to make a goyfless bobless junk deck it would consist of 3-4lilis 3-4souls 4 rhinos 4 soozes and wouldnt be tier 1 but you know what youd still have fun with it and with tight play could do well until you saved enough for 4 goyf.
// Creatures
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Scavenging Ooze
3 Siege Rhino
// Spells
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bow of Nylea
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Murderous Cut
2 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Thoughtseize
No sideboard yet. My reasoning is that kotr can defeat goyf by getting bojuka, and use murderous cut to remove from my gy cards that would help goyf. Ofc if I had goyf, it would replace kotr, but without it, kotr will have to replace it for now... Sorry for not linking cards, but I'm on the phone
Is this deck viable without goyfs (using kotr for instance) and without bobs? A goyfless bobless abzan midrange
If you wanted to make a goyfless bobless junk deck it would consist of 3-4lilis 3-4souls 4 rhinos 4 soozes and wouldnt be tier 1 but you know what youd still have fun with it and with tight play could do well until you saved enough for 4 goyf.
// Creatures
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Scavenging Ooze
3 Siege Rhino
// Spells
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bow of Nylea
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Murderous Cut
2 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Thoughtseize
No sideboard yet. My reasoning is that kotr can defeat goyf by getting bojuka, and use murderous cut to remove from my gy cards that would help goyf. Ofc if I had goyf, it would replace kotr, but without it, kotr will have to replace it for now... Sorry for not linking cards, but I'm on the phone
This seems fine if you don't have goyfs. Dark Confidant is kinda iffy in the current meta (assumning burn will rise again due to the bannings) so not having him is not the end of the world.
Manabasewise I'm not sure you need the 5th basic but that is your call. You do have 9 fetches so you may need that extra target but that could be a twilight mire just a easily. 5 shocks is also kinda aggressive. If I was jamming kotr I would look at something like:
I like how your removal is set up. You'll be seeing a ton of rhinos in the next little while so path is going to be a god send. Cut is obviously good as you dont really use your yard and decay is a requirement not that twin can come back into the format.
Creatures seem fine, the only concern I have is not playing the full 4 rhinos. Without bob in your deck you have no danger of running the playset. I would recommend -1 Bow +1 Rhino kind of thing. Bow is more of a sideboard card with all the maindeck lifegain between ooze, courser and rhino.
As a start for a sideboard I would recommend:
2-3 Stony Silence
1-2 Creeping Corrosion/Fracturing Gust
1-3 Drown in Sorrow/Engineered Explosives/other weenie mass removal
3-4 Fulminator Mage (with twin and junk coming back tron will be returning)
Some number of lifegain cards such as Timely Reinforcements, Obstinate Baloth or Kor Firewalker
Enchantment Removal - seeing Keranos is a personal vendetta of mine so I usually have a Unravel the Aether kicking around.
Cheers,
Night
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Find something, Live For it, Fight for it, Die for it. Then it might get passed on the the next generation.
People in this thread seriously care about Dredge? I don't generally factor in 4th tier garbage when constructing my decks.
better safe than sorry. dredge has a new tool, and vengevine makes for a fine win condition when the format is all midrangey and zoo-ish.
the coming months will prove people wrong or right, but generally speaking when they unban a card, a bunch of people tend to come out of the woodwork and try to play "the deck" that the card came from. whether it's dredge, zoo, or whatever.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I assume running a 1 of Sorin, Solemn Visitor is no longer needed for the deck?
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Nyarlathotep must all things be told
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered. Trade Thread
When playing straight BG, I had been having trouble with Death and Taxes decks as they are filled to the brim with flyers. Would having some spice like this (Raking Canopy) in the sideboard nicely solve that?
Or would just switching to a white splash be better? My only thought with doing that was it will make the mana a bit worse against a deck who hunts that resource.
I don't really see the benefit anymore of being straight B/G versus splashing white. I suppose you still get better mana and access to more Tec Edges, but beyond that it looks like a pretty obvious downgrade from 3-colors. Siege Rhino will be ubiquitous now, and is pretty insane in the mirror, and the manabase is even better than it was before with the Khans fetches. In short, you need a good reason to not splash white in my opinion, for example an unhealthy infatuation with Phyrexian Obliterator.
If you are running white, then Lingering Souls becomes a great option as a 2-4 of. If Death and Taxes is giving you issues with fliers, Souls is a pretty good stopgap. Additionally, you can just tune your removal suite to help fight their specific cards. Darkblast, Disfigure, Golgari Charm, and Zealous Persecution have always been decent against them. Other SB sweepers also help. It's a bit hard to deal with their 3/3's, but you should save your hard removal for those and use the conditional removal on the weaker bunch.
Worst case, you could jam a couple Restoration Angels in the deck too, which would make you pretty top heavy but could improve things against the white fliers. The synergy with Rhino isn't the worst either, though you only have room for so many 4-drops.
People in this thread seriously care about Dredge? I don't generally factor in 4th tier garbage when constructing my decks.
While I'm not terribly worried about Dredge either, this kind of attitude will get you in trouble. We haven't even had GGT for 24 hours and yet you assume that all Dredge decks are still "4th Tier Garbage". How bold. I would wait a few weeks or months before making such a statement, lest you get rolled over in embarrassment under a well-designed Dredgevine list that just happens to be competitive now. I doubt Dredge just became Tier 1, but it could certainly find a place in the Second Tier now, especially in the wake of Pod.
I imagine you were responding to the original suggestion to run Scooze because it's still good against Snapcaster, Dredge, Storm, etc. Regardless of how popular Dredge becomes, Scooze is still a very solid card regardless. And yes, people will come out of the woodwork to play Dredge decks even if they're bad. And Tier 4 decks are often very capable of taking down Tier 1 kingpins, just not all at once. If I'm not mistaken, Living End is a serious problem for us simply because we can't reasonably interact with their GY recursion. You think Dredge will be any easier for the 12-point discard deck?
Point is, Play Scavenging Ooze. It's really good. Prior to Khans, I had a playset in my 75 (3 main, 1 side). That's likely where I will start again.
When playing straight BG, I had been having trouble with Death and Taxes decks as they are filled to the brim with flyers. Would having some spice like this (Raking Canopy) in the sideboard nicely solve that?
Or would just switching to a white splash be better? My only thought with doing that was it will make the mana a bit worse against a deck who hunts that resource.
I don't really see the benefit anymore of being straight B/G versus splashing white. I suppose you still get better mana and access to more Tec Edges, but beyond that it looks like a pretty obvious downgrade from 3-colors. Siee Rhino will be ubiquitous now, and is pretty insane in the mirror, and the manabase is even better than it was before with the Khans fetches. In short, you need a good reason to not splash white in my opinion, for example an unhealthy infatuation with Phyrexian Obliterator.
If you are running white, then Lingering Souls becomes a great option as a 2-4 of. If Death and Taxes is giving you issues with fliers, Souls is a pretty good stopgap. Additionally, you can just tune your removal suite to help fight their specific cards. Darkblast, Disfigure, Golgari Charm, and Zealous Persecution have always been decent against them. Other SB sweepers also help. It's a bit hard to deal with their 3/3's, but you should save your hard removal for those and use the conditional removal on the weaker bunch.
Worst case, you could jam a couple Restoration Angels in the deck too, which would make you pretty top heavy but could improve things against the white fliers. The synergy with Rhino isn't the worst either, though you only have room for so many 4-drops.
Hey! Thanks for the reply on the topic! I guess I didn't consider that beforehand I was playing the deck without the Khan's fetches so the mana would be somewhat better.
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Courser of Kruphix
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Siege Rhino
4 Tarmogoyf
Non-creature spells (19)
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Forest
2 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Cemetery
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Stony Silence
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Damnation
2 Maelstrom Pulse
The Relics in the sideboard are for the rising number of Dredge decks. What do you think? I'm not sure about the Smiters, but they have been putting on nice pressure.
Delve cards are out the window, the ones we were trying out werent that great anyways.
Slaughter Pact is probably only playable as a 1 of now, because of opposing rhinos.
Anafenza is still going to be a thing, there will be junk pod-esque decks that run a plethora synergous creatures that includes VoR and Finks- also, the less outlandish guess is dredge will become more of a thing. Dredgevine was tier 1.5 or 2, now it has a solid finisher and much better dredger.
Still unsure about lingering souls.
@player292
Thats a junk deck, not a BGx midrange deck.
We dont play BoP, we dont play more than 2 path, we have liliana, we play manlands, and we probably dont play smiter.
Rhino will probably goto 2-3 of. Either to make room for Thrun/batterskull/blood baron or for the timid bob player.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Siege Rhino
SPELLS (23)
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Duress
2x Path to Exile
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Slaughter Pact
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple Garden
1x Godless Shrine
2x Horizon Canopy
3x Treetop Village
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Stony Silence
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Back to Nature
2x Thrun, The Last Troll
2x Rain of Tears
2x Golgari Charm
2x Kitchen Finks
WBG Abzan's Junk WBG
BRG Jund BRG
BRG Living End BRG
BGU Sultai BGU
EDH
R Purphoros, God of the Forge R
Pauper
RBGU Affinity RBGU
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesJundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
For a Goyf replacement, run Hooting Mandrils...or Tasigur.
-MTG Salvation.
If you wanted to make a goyfless bobless junk deck it would consist of 3-4lilis 3-4souls 4 rhinos 4 soozes and wouldnt be tier 1 but you know what youd still have fun with it and with tight play could do well until you saved enough for 4 goyf.
decks playing:
none
Or would just switching to a white splash be better? My only thought with doing that was it will make the mana a bit worse against a deck who hunts that resource.
My attempt is:
// Deck: 00. Abzan Midrange (61)
// Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
// Creatures
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Scavenging Ooze
3 Siege Rhino
// Spells
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Bow of Nylea
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Murderous Cut
2 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Thoughtseize
No sideboard yet. My reasoning is that kotr can defeat goyf by getting bojuka, and use murderous cut to remove from my gy cards that would help goyf. Ofc if I had goyf, it would replace kotr, but without it, kotr will have to replace it for now... Sorry for not linking cards, but I'm on the phone
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesThis seems fine if you don't have goyfs. Dark Confidant is kinda iffy in the current meta (assumning burn will rise again due to the bannings) so not having him is not the end of the world.
Manabasewise I'm not sure you need the 5th basic but that is your call. You do have 9 fetches so you may need that extra target but that could be a twilight mire just a easily. 5 shocks is also kinda aggressive. If I was jamming kotr I would look at something like:
3 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
I like how your removal is set up. You'll be seeing a ton of rhinos in the next little while so path is going to be a god send. Cut is obviously good as you dont really use your yard and decay is a requirement not that twin can come back into the format.
Creatures seem fine, the only concern I have is not playing the full 4 rhinos. Without bob in your deck you have no danger of running the playset. I would recommend -1 Bow +1 Rhino kind of thing. Bow is more of a sideboard card with all the maindeck lifegain between ooze, courser and rhino.
As a start for a sideboard I would recommend:
2-3 Stony Silence
1-2 Creeping Corrosion/Fracturing Gust
1-3 Drown in Sorrow/Engineered Explosives/other weenie mass removal
3-4 Fulminator Mage (with twin and junk coming back tron will be returning)
Some number of lifegain cards such as Timely Reinforcements, Obstinate Baloth or Kor Firewalker
Enchantment Removal - seeing Keranos is a personal vendetta of mine so I usually have a Unravel the Aether kicking around.
Cheers,
Night
better safe than sorry. dredge has a new tool, and vengevine makes for a fine win condition when the format is all midrangey and zoo-ish.
the coming months will prove people wrong or right, but generally speaking when they unban a card, a bunch of people tend to come out of the woodwork and try to play "the deck" that the card came from. whether it's dredge, zoo, or whatever.
thanks again.
Best regards
UR TwinLegacy
UWR Miraclesfor he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered.
Trade Thread
I don't really see the benefit anymore of being straight B/G versus splashing white. I suppose you still get better mana and access to more Tec Edges, but beyond that it looks like a pretty obvious downgrade from 3-colors. Siege Rhino will be ubiquitous now, and is pretty insane in the mirror, and the manabase is even better than it was before with the Khans fetches. In short, you need a good reason to not splash white in my opinion, for example an unhealthy infatuation with Phyrexian Obliterator.
If you are running white, then Lingering Souls becomes a great option as a 2-4 of. If Death and Taxes is giving you issues with fliers, Souls is a pretty good stopgap. Additionally, you can just tune your removal suite to help fight their specific cards. Darkblast, Disfigure, Golgari Charm, and Zealous Persecution have always been decent against them. Other SB sweepers also help. It's a bit hard to deal with their 3/3's, but you should save your hard removal for those and use the conditional removal on the weaker bunch.
Worst case, you could jam a couple Restoration Angels in the deck too, which would make you pretty top heavy but could improve things against the white fliers. The synergy with Rhino isn't the worst either, though you only have room for so many 4-drops.
While I'm not terribly worried about Dredge either, this kind of attitude will get you in trouble. We haven't even had GGT for 24 hours and yet you assume that all Dredge decks are still "4th Tier Garbage". How bold. I would wait a few weeks or months before making such a statement, lest you get rolled over in embarrassment under a well-designed Dredgevine list that just happens to be competitive now. I doubt Dredge just became Tier 1, but it could certainly find a place in the Second Tier now, especially in the wake of Pod.
I imagine you were responding to the original suggestion to run Scooze because it's still good against Snapcaster, Dredge, Storm, etc. Regardless of how popular Dredge becomes, Scooze is still a very solid card regardless. And yes, people will come out of the woodwork to play Dredge decks even if they're bad. And Tier 4 decks are often very capable of taking down Tier 1 kingpins, just not all at once. If I'm not mistaken, Living End is a serious problem for us simply because we can't reasonably interact with their GY recursion. You think Dredge will be any easier for the 12-point discard deck?
Point is, Play Scavenging Ooze. It's really good. Prior to Khans, I had a playset in my 75 (3 main, 1 side). That's likely where I will start again.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Hey! Thanks for the reply on the topic! I guess I didn't consider that beforehand I was playing the deck without the Khan's fetches so the mana would be somewhat better.